Short naps!

[Carly11]

Hey there!

My LG is 12 weeks old now and sleep has been going along good at night but very average in the daytime.

I think she can last around 1.5 hours before getting tired and she goes down really good, but still can’t get any longer than 45 minutes  Ive tried extending waketime longer but that’s worse.

Suppose I just want to know how do you recover from short naps from the start of day? TIA!

[creations]

Hi
Does your LO have any props for falling to sleep at the beginning of the nap or is she sleeping independently?
Where is she sleeping? (dark bedroom? push chair? bassinet in family room?)
What happens when she wakes at 45 mins?

With 45 min nap soften you have to put another another nap in the day.  Many people reduce the following A time to avoid OT but I would be cautious of reducing it too much as you can then get UT naps.

When you say extending the A time is worse what happens?

[Carly11]

I use a dummy sometimes but it doesn’t seem to make a difference whether she goes to sleep with or without it, but I should be more consistent really.
Dark room, white noise, bassinet in bedroom. I always try and extend when she wakes up sometimes it works sometimes it dosnt.

If I try and extend A times she just gets worked up and that’s when I get the 30mins.

I also think sometimes like you’ve said, I’ve reduced the A time to make up for the short nap but ends with a UT nap 

[deb]

This was our experience around that time: https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0

[Carly11]

Thanks Deb! I thought she was going through a growth spurt too as we were down to two feeds per night (without DF) and recently had gone to 3! When she gets so tired full feedings go out the window so what you did does sound like it could work!

[creations]

Thanks for stopping by Deb.
Carly, hope you get somewhere with the info. Let us know how you get on.

One thing you might try is to stay in the bedroom with your LO while she sleeps. LOs know when we are there, they can hear our breathing and sense they are not alone, it could give her the additional comfort and reassurance she needs to get a longer nap.  It wouldn't mean staying for every nap for ever, once he habit of longer napping sets in place it is easier to continue.

[Carly11]

Thanks creations. 

Do you mean her in her bassinet and me just in the room? When I can’t settle her back to sleep in her bassinet I usually then sit cuddling her until next feed as sometimes I think it’s just better to get the sleep in to her. I can only do this on days my oldest is at preschool tho ha.

[creations]

Yes I mean just being in the room (maybe have a nap yourself ) but right through teh first part of the nap rather than waiting for the wake up at 40 mins. My DS wouldn't fall asleep with me in the room (independent sleeper waited for me to leave him) so when I did thins I left the room, waited 3 mins while he nodded off then crept back into the room. He was in his 40 min nap phase and my presence brought on a 2hr nap.
If you then need to help resettle or hold for the second half of then nap that's another thing, the idea is that she might just sleep through that 40 min transition.

[Carly11]

Ok so first nap of the day has lengthened! And sometimes the second one too woo! Now my question is- when should the last nap of the day finish for a bedtime of 7pm? Because later day naps are still abit iffy, can end up pretty overtired by end of day and im confused as to when to drop that 4th nap or cut it off by?

[deb]

You  may have to go day-to-day and just look for cues as to how tired she is. When naps cut back, there's a period of time when sometimes there are 3 naps, sometimes 2, before the new routine solidifies.

3rd nap should be more of a catnap, so the A time following it will also be shorter. What does your new schedule look like w/longer day naps?

[Carly11]

Ive still been aiming for the three hour easy but cutting off the catnap at 5.30 for 7pm bedtime. But then I keep reading that last nap should finish by 5pm to settle at 7pm. I just don’t know how to work that into the routine if she still has 3 hour cycles..

[creations]

Hi there
From what you've said it sounds like you are still running with 4 naps per day.  You might need to move to 3 naps now which would typically be 2 long naps and a CN.  Your LO might be able to handle a longer A time and it may help the second nap to be consistently longer rather than only sometimes, you might need an A time of 1hr 45 or 2hrs for some or all A times in the day.
Could you record and post your actual times that happen across a full day please?

[Carly11]

I’m just not sure she can go 4 hours between feeds yet!

7am wake and feed
8.30 sleep 1.5hours
10 feed
11.30 (this is the hard one sometimes works, sometimes not?
1 feed
2/2.30 nap usually short
4 feed
I have to work hard after this feed to get some sleep in before 5pm
Bedtime 7pm

I like bedtime at 7 so then I have some time with my eldest before her bed. But do you think I have to push bedtime later? Thanks!

[creations]

I think it's time to drop that 4th nap really.

As nap 1 is working well you could leave that first A time as it is for now, increase later if/when needed.
Increase second A time to 1hr 45min and you should get a more consistent nap length, be prepared to help through the nap for a few days in case of any bit of OT caused by the A time increase but she should get used to it quite soon.
If you get a good second nap then another 1hr 30 or 1hr 45 before nap 3.  If she stays asleep longer than a CN it's okay so long as you wake her ready for an A time before BT.
LO will be more likely to stretch a little longer between E if she is asleep. if she cannot go 4hrs it's ok to get a top up if needed or run E and S times separately so that the A can be long enough to encourage a good nap.
There are no set times or schedules for this, but here is a guidance of what it might look like:

WU 7
E 7
A 1hr 30
S 8.30 - 10.00
E 10
A 1hr 45
S 11.45 - 1.15
E 1.15 (this is only 3hr 15 since previous E, if she is asleep she may not notice the extra 15 min)
A 1hr 45
S 3.00 - 4.30 (this one will reduce to become a CN when the A times increase to 2hrs) If this nap is very short you might need to wing it for the rest of the day to squeeze in another CN, otherwise you go for EBT
E 4.30
A 1hr 45
E 6 the BT feed
EBT 6.15

Whilst it looks a bit off track towards the end of the day bare in mind this is a relatively short period of time and A time will increase to 2hrs which will push BT later again.  Over the next 2 months A time will increase more, getting to approx 3hrs at 6months.

[Carly11]

Hey Thankyou! Makes sense and winging it is what I’ve been doing anyway so all good haha. I have been looking out for her going longer between feeds as I remember my first doing it around this time but she still seems really hungry at the 3 and also still waking up through the night twice for a feed. This is without a DF though  and have been wondering whether I should introduce one or is it too late? I did one for a ages with my first but I was more organised with pumping last time so my husband could do it and I could sleep haha.