4 Month old wakes up every hour now

[timelessnomad]

My baby girl has never been a great sleeper. But around 12 weeks she started giving me one stretch of 4 hours. Then at 3 months I started to see 6-7 hour stretches and felt like a human again. Then two weeks before I went back to work something happened. About when she was 3.5 months she started waking every 2-3 hours again.

I've been doing all the night feedings since we are EBF and my husband went back to work after 6 weeks. We started trading off night duty when I went back to work which helped but now my husband is sick so he can't be near the baby. She is now 4.5 months and its just getting worse! For the past week she is literally giving me maybe 1 two hour stretch and then up every 45 min to 1 hour. Our pediatrician said she is too young to sleep train and that she is a very alert little girl so its no wonder she isn't sleeping. But basically he said that it sucks and I just have to deal till she is 6 months and can eat solids as maybe the solids will help her feel more full at night. I try to feed her more during the day (on weekends as I work during the week), and I try to tell her caregiver to feed more during the day too so she doesn't want as much at night. Not sure how much she is getting from me, but with the caregiver she only will take 4 x 3-4oz bottles.

Here is her schedule (Not much of a real schedule but I'll post what a day could look like). Her naps have ALWAYS been only 45 min from day 1. We practice EASY as much as possible but sometimes its EAESY as she has never been able to go a full 3 hours between feedings without being super cranky and her naps are only 45 min.

Wake up (between 6:30-7:15am) I'd like her to sleep to 7:15 but it rarely happens anymore. If I can I soothe her I let her stay in her crib if she is content till then, but usually she is up and crying. Then basically the only nap that happens on time is nap 1. I put her down 1hour 15 min after she wakes up, and usually she falls asleep pretty quickly. She sleeps 45 min, I feed her, then she stays awake for 1hour 15min to 1hour 30 and then i put her down for a 45 min nap. She used to take about 5 naps a day, but she has started staying awake a bit longer and only going down for 4 naps. I'll still try for the 5th nap but she usually just cries in her crib and seems super awake. (I know 5 naps sounds like a lot but when she only naps 45 min, its necessary or she gets overtired)

Bedtime I try to get her down no later then 7:30. Sometimes its as early as 6:30. When I get home from work (around 6pm) We eat, and depending on how long she has been up, and how cranky she is, we will either eat and take another nap, or eat and start her bedtime routine (eat, lullaby music, baby massage, pj's, book, bed)

So say she is in bed by 7. She will wake up at 8, 9, 10, and usually 12. I feed her each time. She used to wake up once at 9 and then not again till 4am.

Then she will give me maybe 1 two hour stretch till 2am, then its up at 4, 5, 6, and awake fully by 6:30. I try to not feed her every time she wakes, but she doesn't want to soothe any other way. When my husband watches her at night he can get away with one bottle at 12, and another at 3 am, but then he can soothe her the other times. Me on the other hand, she just cries and cries until she gets boob. My guess is that she can smell the milk, or she is missing me during the day since I went back to work and wants some comfort nursing. But not much I can do about that.

Before this 3.5 month spell hit she was going to bed on her own as I'd put her down drowsy but awake. I wasn't rocking or nursing her to sleep. Now I feel like I'm breaking all the sleep association rules just to get some sleep as I can't function anymore. I don't want her to develop these bad habits, but when I try to sooth her, it takes forever, or she sleeps and then wakes back up 10 min later. So out of pure desperation to get sleep I pick her up and nurse her. She does eat for about 5-10 minutes so she is hungry.

She has also learned how to roll over so that was a big part if this dilemma. She sleeps in the merlin sleep suit which has been great for us. She can't roll over in the merlin yet. I try to transition her to the basic sleep sac during daytime naps so she can get used to rolling over and then putting herself back to sleep, but it never works. She just rolls over, then cries since she doesn't like being on her tummy. I'm keeping her in the merlin till she can hopefully learn how to roll back on her own.

I can't sustain this type of schedule and work full time. Any advice is much appreciated but please lets not start tossing out opinions if your against working moms as that's not helpful.

Thank you fellow moms and dads.

[ginger428]

Hi timeless and welcome to BW,

I am actually in the exact same boat So I really feel for you. More so because you have to go to work.. No judgment here at all, just extra hugs and kudos to you mama.

The 3-4 month stage is like a perfect storm. There’s a huge mental/social, physical, and sleep development. Even the best sleepers have a tough time. As you probably know, her sleep is going through distinct stages now and that at the end of each cycle that’s 60-90 or 120 mins, she is checking her surroundings and wants the same conditions she fell asleep in.

I’m going to put your routine in EAS format as a reference..and let’s unpack everything going on.

WU 6:30/7
E
S Nap1 7:45 ?- 8:30
E
S Nap2 1:30min later, between 10-11?
E
S Nap3 1:30 later, between 12-1?
E
S Nap4 1:30 later, between 2-3?
E
S Nap 5 1:30 later, between 4-5
E
BT 6:30/7

NIGHTWAKINGS
The main goal is To get her falling asleep independently again at the beginning of the night. . Like you said it, it does take time to soothe her to sleep without feeding so you have to gear up for that. I don’t believe in hard core sleep training this young, but could certainly try sh/pat and as a last resort pu/pd with minimal tears.  Here are links for that...
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic
I’ve personally been doing pu/pd then sh/patting in the crib as he starts to settle. I’ve also tried reeeally hard to time feeds so he has eaten 30 min before bed instead of right at bt. It’s hit or miss. So if he falls asleep eating, I gently rustle him awake then proceed with pu/pd.

To rule out a growth spurt, which could be in the mix, ask your caregiver if she seems more hungry than usual during the day. AND, overall is she taking more at night than she was before? If so, we have to wean her off the night feedings. The growth spurt part only lasts a few days, a week tops. Since it’s been longer than that and she’s passed the typical timeframe for a spurt, she has a sleep association that we can gently break.

My son was doing the hourly wakings too. Thankfully, he will eventually settle without eating but he cries and screams for a while in my arms. It is so tough because I am always wondering if he’s really hungry or not. The truth is, he may feel hungry since I thougt it was a growth spurt and fed him for a few nights straight at each waking. It may be what happened with your little girl. Now he expects it but I had to do something and after 2 nights he now wakes after 3 hrs. It’s a start. I hear you though- I could barely function and before the two nights that I stuck with it, I gave in many many times to nursing to sleep out of desperation. 

If you’re ready to tackle the nights and want the change- There are two general approaches to this- one to refuse the feedings no matter how upset she gets (but while you comfort her) or gradually reduce then eliminate feedings. The first way- you do what you’ve tried by soothing him and don’t give in within 3-4 hrs since the last feeding. Even then, anticipate the 3-4 hr wakeup feed and wake her to feed- like a dreamfeed.

Since your husband can’t help at the moment, the gentle way is that you feed her when she wakes but as soon as she suckles or slows down and is sleepy, very gently pull her off and immediatley rock and gently sh/pat. If she fusses it’s ok. If she escalates put her back on the boob and try again. This is just until your husband can help again  bc she won’t settle when you hold her. The goal is to reduce the amount she is eating, and switching up her way of going to sleep.

Either way, it is a lot of work and to do it that many times a night is so tough. Is there any way you can take a day or two off so that you can rest while the carefiver is there? Or wait to start this on the weekend? Hopefully DH will be better by then?

Also note that once you see progress, you’ll have to gently wean her from any support falling asleep and revert to putting her down awake.

NAPS
The average awake time for 4 month olds is 2 hrs. Needs differ with every child but I think she is stuck in a short nap- short awake time- so short nap cycle. Extending the naps will take time amd energy so put that off for now until she is sleeping better at night or you can get help- maybe your caregiver can do it... links with strategies to extend 45 min naps is here.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0

Like you mentioned, she has started staying awake longer so I recommend extending the FIRST awake time to at least 1:30, aiming for 1:45 by next week, then by 5 months, 2 hrs. A too short first A time Can affect night Sleep and in fact, nap length. We want to rule this out. Be warned that this takes at least a few days for adjustment.. she might be cranky but stick with it for a week. I’m really hoping she’ll surprise us and take longer naps! Note that with good 1.5-2 hr naps- her awake times can increase as day progresses (first awake time is usually the shortest). But for now with short naps- keep the awake times about the same...

Fwiw- I put down my son down for naps really drowsy, almost asleep, and he sleeps for 30-40 mins. When he wakes, I get him to go back to sleep by rocking/patting then holding him...and in desperate times nursing (esp if eating time is soon), then he sleeps on me for an hr. To 1.5 hrs. I’m home so I can do this most days but it’s not easy either as I have to care for my other son.
I’m hoping as he gets older he will be able to make the transition himself. Neither of my boys were/are great sleepers either... short nappers and low-sleep needs.

FEEDS
I totaly get you about LO not making to 3-4 hr EASY, ESPECIALLY with short naps that seem to end up in the middle of eating time.  We often have top-ups, but for a different reason.. my son has reflux and takes smaller feeds more often.
You could try a set amount of top-up 1 hr after the main feed- say 1.5oz, then slowly decrease and add to the main feeds. Our goal here is to transfer night feeds to day. As you already are aware, they are sooo alert at this age, so ask the caregiver to feed her in a quiet, dim room. I had to do this as well for my 4mo. We’re still in the middle of sorting all this out too but he’s down from eating every hr to 4-5 times. I’m aiming for 3 times and then take his lead.

In summary- you’re aiming for something like this initially- then extend the naps to get to a good 3 nap routine as you enter 5 months.

WU 6:30/6:45
A 1h30-1h45m
S 8:15
E
A 1h45
S 10:45
E
A 1h45
S 1:15
E
A 1h45
S 3:45
E
A 1h45
E
BT 6:00/6:30
NF 2-3x (will depend on the kid AND the developmental
Phases!)

Days are about 12 or 13 hrs long at this age so if Bed is 6:00/6:30, a 6:30 wake up is expected. If you can push the A times to 2 hrs by 5 mo, she’ll probably near a 7:00/7:30 BT. And when naps lengthen, 3 naps with a 7:00/7:30 BT might get you a 7:00 wake time again. But that’s another story!


Hope that helps and is a start.
Hugs again. It’s a soul-crushing phase. Glad you came here for support.

[timelessnomad]

Ginger,
Wow so much good info here! I can't thank you enough. I'll need to read through this when I'm a bit less tired to really digest it but here are a few things in response.

-She does fall asleep independently for the first few wake-ups. So the 7ish one, the 8, the 9. Then I may get one where I can pu pd. Then its all screams.

-One thing I figured out today, since she is sleeping in the Merlin sleep suit, is that I can unzip it, and zip it back up and that sort of wakes her up if she has fallen asleep so I may start doing that more often if she falls asleep before getting to the crib.

-Oh and I forgot to mention that she is in her crib. This it totally credited to our 3 dogs, as we had planned on putting her in our room in a bassinet. But the day we brought her home, our dogs were so excited that they barked at ever peep she made. We realized we wouldn't get any sleep with her in our room so she stayed in her crib from day 2. We have a monitor which has become the bain of my existence since i'm such a light sleeper, but at least we don't have to transition her to her crib as I've heard from many parents that is difficult. Yay one thing solved haha, a million more to go.

-My husband went to the dr this morning to make sure he isn't contagious. So thankfully he isn't and he is taking over night duties tonight. I'll have much more willpower to try and push through the cries to sooth vs feed after some sleep vs days on end of no sleep. I think I'll try the holding off feeding unless its been 3 hours. I know she can go this long as she has done 6-7 hour stints in the past. I think maybe I'll try no feedings after 2am at first? Then when she wakes up at 6 or 6:30 I feed her upon waking. I never thought about not letting her eat all that long on the boob at night. I basically just let her eat as long as she wanted till she fell asleep. But makes sense to not give her all that much at night, just enough to get her drowsy. I'll try that as well.

-Unfortunately I can't take off a day from work right now as I'm taking off two days at the end of the month to help transition her into daycare. Right now she is with my mom till her daycare starts in July. But I'm all for doing whatever is necessary on the weekend. We've been doing lots of practicing with her roll overs, trying to get her to learn how to roll back so she can if she isn't happy on her tummy.

-I think your right, work on the night sleeping first, then the naps. My mom is willing to try whatever during the day, but once July hits and she is in daycare, I'm sure it will be another transition. I was wondering if she was nursing more at night because she missed nursing vs the new bottles during the day but who knows. I just hope the daycare can assist with things vs taking another step backwards. Staying positive though!

I don't know how you even had time to write such a thoughtful post when you have two boys! I tell ya, I have such a new found appreciation for parents and even more so for parents that have more then one! Sounds like you've got a lot on your hands but that you've really got a plan in place. I think that's whats driving me mad is that I haven't had time to even do more research and get a plan in place to try. You've given me such good resources. Thank you!!!

I'll post updates as things hopefully progress better vs worse. Good luck to you too ginger!

[ginger428]

Oh yes! Forgot to mention about you returning to work... yes, yes. Cuddle her as often as possible and the gentle method may be the way to go. But sounds like she is in such great hands.

So glad DH is not contagious. Lol. Here’s to teamwork. 

Number of NFs can fluctuate as their needs change and as they well.. grow. Haha. BF babies increase feeds to help with your supply. So I wouldn’t be too quick to stop all NFs until we get her routine sorted out. Since she can resettle at 7,8,9.. try waking her at 9:30/9:44  to feed her preemptively. Normally I would say 10:00, but not if she’s waking around then herself. The 4am-6am (lightest sleep
Phase)time is really hard to resettle so I would go ahead and feed her at 5 if she wakes. Again, just reduce the time on the boob if you can.

Yeah who has time to research! Ha. I was a moderator here before so have the info handy. That’s what we’re here for!

Gotta run! LO just woke up in my arms. This is where I get the time. 

Thank you for the encouragement. I really needed it too. 

[timelessnomad]

We’ll status update:

Not much had changed sadly. She has gotten marginally better. Basically I get one or two 2-2.5 hour stretches and then it’s back to every hour. My husband is traveling right now so I get all the fun overnights and all the weekend naps with no relief for this working mom. Totally average sleep for a day for my DD maxes out at 13-14 hrs. From what I’ve read, that is on the lowest side of things for being a few days away from 5 months. She starts daycare in a week so I’m sure even if I had figured something out it would get all mixed up again.  I’m at my wits end bit have no idea what to even do anymore. My only success has been cutting down on he night feedings. So even though she still wakes up about 6-8 times a night, I’m only feeding her around 2am and 5am. Small wins I guess. Her naps have gotten worse and she went from 45 min to 30. This kid just doeant like to sleep! I swear I spend over an hour trying to get her to sleep for 30 min. It’s so difficult right now. What makes it even worse is that there are two new parents at work that have kids much younger then mine and they both say they sleep 10-12 hours. I literally can’t talk to them anymore lol. Anyway just needed to vent. - exhausted mom

[ginger428]

Oh dear. I am so sorry things have not progressed! 
Sadly, I’m in the same boat. 

I know you needed to vent but if you’re up for more eyes to take a look at your situation, I can bump this post for that purpose. Also curious what your routine is like now... our Awake times have jumped quite a bit since out last posts. I do think your DD is overtired without a proper, restorative nap or night.

Even though she can fall asleep independently she might still need some sleep training.. are you waiting before going in? What do you do to resettle at the times she doesn’t eat? Any possible medical issues? Buds on her bottom teeth? Can your mom extend her naps at all by holding her?

Could you set up a mattress in her room so that you can sleep as much as possible right after you settle her?

Many hugs and I’m hoping our kiddos sleep soon... for our sanity. Btw, my DS turns 5 mo in a week or so.

[becj86]

Hi there, how are you going with daycare starting?

Sometimes the night can really be helped by getting the day sorted, happy to lend another set of eyes if you think that could be useful for you.

[timelessnomad]

Hello,
Sorry for the delay but I'm really just in survival mode at the moment. I looked back on the sleep logs and she is literally sleeping worse then when she was a newborn.
This was yesterday's EAS. The Y is non existent lol. 

6:40AM: Awake, Eat
8:35-9:24: Nap for 49 minutes ( I tried putting her down earlier but it didn't happen) / Eat
11:04-11:46: Nap for 42 minutes / Eat
1:54-2:27: Nap for 33 minutes / Eat
3:07 Eat
4:15 Eat / We did a bunch of stuff outside and she was hungry. I also worry with the heat that she may be getting dehydrated so I tend to offer her the boob more often if its hot and we're outside.
4:48-5:18pm / Nap for 30 minutes. ( I tried putting her down earlier but it didn't happen) / Eat
6:27 Eat
7:23 Bedtime, down for 1:17min / Eat, right back to bed
8:55-9:57 Sleep / Eat
10:03-10:07 sleep / soothe (only time i was able to get her to soothe without eating last night)
10:12-12:03 / 1:51 sleep / try to soothe / eat
12:21-1:30 / 1:16 sleep / try to soothe / eat
1:54-3:46 / 1:52 sleep / try to soothe / eat
4:02-5:15 / 1:13 sleep / soothe
5:21-5:39 / 17min sleep / eat / She seemed pretty awake at this time for about 10 min but then I was able to get her back to sleep
6:11-7:15 / Have to wake her up so I can get ready and go to work. Kills me to wake her up when I work all night to get her to sleep..ughhh the irony.

My husband came in this morning when I was trying to rock her and I just busted into tears. The constant lack of sleep, feeling of being a failure at soothing her has just completely worn me down. I have no willpower to keep trying to soothe her when I'm this tired. I basically just offer her the boob or pacificer as that is all that seems to work some days. And now its Monday, her first full day of daycare, and I'm off to work to try and do a job when all I want to do is cry and sleep. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Ginger,
 are you waiting before going in? I usually wait till her rustles start to sound like real cries and then I go in. Sometimes she resettles, but lately not much of that is happening.

What do you do to resettle at the times she doesn’t eat? Pick up, put down sometimes works. Shush pat rarely works.

Any possible medical issues? none that I'm aware of. All her pediatrician appointments have been good.

Buds on her bottom teeth? I'm sure she is teething, she gnaws on everything she can get her mouth on. I tried some homeopathic camilla stuff but not sure if I should give tylenol or not.

Can your mom extend her naps at all by holding her? Mom is now gone and she is in daycare so this is a whole new ballgame.

Could you set up a mattress in her room so that you can sleep as much as possible right after you settle her? My husband does this with a blanket on the floor. I guess I could try this too.

I think our kids must be only about a week apart in age. How are you doing these days?

[ginger428]

Update- Day 5 of trying to change his sleep habits and he’s fighting me. Feel so defeated.

How did daycare go???

 
I understand how shattered you must be. Lots of hugs.

Have to go in a sec but things have slightly improved. I think the awake times have to be stretched longer for your LO. I’ll see what bec says. Just at a glance looks like awake times need a push- closer to 2h15min. What does your daycare do for them?

[becj86]

I think those A times at the beginning of the day are far too short and that's why you're getting the "better" naps of 40-50mins. I think this might be extending her night as well, impacting her night sleep.

I think she's got some longer A times in the afternoon and she's giving you 30min overtired naps then OT through the early part of the night.

What is daycare doing with her? Do they have set naps?

My suggestion would be to do things by the clock for 2-3 days with an A time of 2:15. By this I mean watch the clock until 2hr A time then watch your LO for tired signs for the next 15mins. If she shows some tired cues, do a quick (1-2min) WD and pop her into bed for a nap. I think its important for her to get used to sleeping longer than 45mins at a time, so resettle however you can if she wakes before approx. 1:30 of sleep. If you see no cues in that 15mins, do your WD and pop her into bed for a nap at 2:15 A time.
**If she's properly turned 5 months already, do the same thing but watching the clock from 2:15A time to 2:30

If she wakes after 45min and you cannot resettle her (just spend 5-10mins trying and if she's not going back to sleep, don't waste your time or sanity, just get her up and carry on with the day and shorten your next A time by 5-10mins) do almost a full A time, don't try and catch her up with tiny short A times and more short naps.

WRT nights - I wouldn't be trying to soothe then feeding, I'd just feed and get back to bed. I think once the day is less messy, her night will probably iron out on its own, at least to a point there'll be something obvious to work on. At the moment, she's waking so frequently and she probably doesn't need feeding at all those wakings but you're probably not in a place to stick to your guns and get her back down without feeding, etc. Sounds like you need some sleep to be able to function at that level. If you are, I can certainly talk you through how you'd do that with a baby who still does need some NFs, just not quite so many of them.

How does your DD fall asleep at the moment? I wonder if part of the issue at night is that she thinks she needs to feed to get to back to sleep.

[timelessnomad]

Hi,
So Daycare was a mess this week. They don't have a set nap schedule for infants. They don't really start that till Toddlers. They basically go off of what ever schedule you give them. I told them originally 1:30 min A time and then try for a nap, but that wasn't working. She surprisingly did take some naps but nothing more then 30 min. But honestly I'm amazed she even slept and ate so in my mind that's progress Or maybe my bar is so low at this point haha.

Apologies if this post is a bit delirious and all over the place. The sleep at night has either gotten marginally better, or worse, depends on the day. There have been a few nights where she has given me a 3 hour stint, and then been able to be soothed. Other nights we're back at maybe a 2 hour stretch after she goes to bed, and then up every 1-1:30 hours.

Yesterday at daycare, she got up at 6:30 at home, I get to daycare around 8:15. I told them that she will probably need to go to bed around 8:30. She didn't go down for a nap till 10! She slept for 15 min, then took a few other 20min naps all day. I don't know how she is going to sleep there. She is already such an engaged little girl. She wants to see and be a part of everything. She gets bored very easily. At daycare there is always something going on. People coming in and out of the room, kids crying, kids eating, kids playing. There never will be a time where the lights go down and its quiet, unless she was the only one there that day, or if the other kids took naps at the exact same time. Thankfully she is taking her bottles. 3oz at a time x 3-4 bottles. I pick her up around 6:15pm. Part of me is so glad to be back at work honestly as its a break from the battles of naps, but part of me hates it since I have less control and can't really work things through with her. We are now 100% dependent on the daycare figuring things out with my suggestions.

After that day of very little sleep at the daycare I moved up her bedtime to 6:30 as she just seemed so exhausted. She slept till 9, then up every hour and a half. I tried holding out to soothe her vs feed her but i'm just met with screams and more screams. My husband was home so he came up and I think he got a glimpse into what its been like on my nights watching her. She doesn't seem to give him as much trouble. Lately she flails her arms around, smacking me in the face and sometimes digging her nails into my skin. Its not fun.

I think the hardest thing about being a parent is that there are no answers. I struggle so much with just not knowing what to even try.
For example.
-Should I feed her as often as possible during the day hours so that she gets her calories then, or is this considered snacking vs giving her full meals at set times?

-Do I give her Tylenol and assume she is teething? Or do I just wait till I see some teeth and then know she was probably hurting?

-Is it better to just nurse her at night and have her actually sleep vs try to soothe her and get her to the point where she is really upset and can't fall back asleep? One creates sleep associations, but gets her sleep. The other doesn't create sleep associations but then she is over tired.

There just doesn't seem to be any answers. I feel so defeated and honestly the lack of sleep is starting to make me depressed. I'm looking for a therapist that can possibly do tele-sessions since I won't be able to get into an appointment anytime in the near future. I know everyone says that this time is so short and that it will pass eventually, but I literally dread the idea that I'll be looking back at this time 6 months from now and nothing will have changed.

I'm sure she does now need the boob to fall asleep. Not sure how to break that since its the only thing that now works. Today I'm home since its the 4th of July and I have off. I'm just trying to get her to nap so she isn't so tired for daycare tomorrow. She did turn 5 months and can easily stay up for 2hours A time, but then getting her down for naps is still a battle.

I literally feel like I don't have a moment to myself. Her short naps are my mad dash to get anything done in my life, or to sleep for a quick 30 minutes. Her nights I dread. Thankfully my husband takes over every other night so I get at least a few hours uninterrupted sleep before 4:30am when I need to pump. I'd love to give him a bottle more often, but since were EBF I have to pump to do that, and I'm already pumping as much as I can to give her milk for daycare so anything extra is just more work and I barely produce enough as it is.

I'm going to try 10 min of extending her naps and hope for the best. She is usually 100% awake after 30-45 min so its never worked but I'll give it another go.

Thanks everyone for your kind words and support. Ginger I wish we were neighbors and then we could support each other more with some hugs and compassion. But since we can't, know that I feel your pain and I hope that we can both get through this without losing our sanity. Bec, I'll give your tips a try when I've had some more sleep and can process things better.

[becj86]

hey basically go off of what ever schedule you give them. I told them originally 1:30 min A time and then try for a nap, but that wasn't working.

So this is really great and quite unusual. I'd take advantage of that and say that you're trying to find a routine that works well for her and would like to try 2:15 A time consistently for a week and see how she goes with that. She will be overstimulated, so 20min naps may be a things for a while. If they can give her some cuddles for 5-10mins before bed so she can calm a bit, she may sleep better. Do they have a separate sleep room at all?

I know everyone says that this time is so short and that it will pass eventually, but I literally dread the idea that I'll be looking back at this time 6 months from now and nothing will have changed.

I'm in bits reading this and remembering feeling very similarly (my DS is 7 years old).

I think its really important you think about your mental health and find a therapist you can work with. Do you have a GP / family doctor you can talk to? What you've got going at home is a supportive husband and a tricky baby who is likely picking up on your emotions and tension around her sleep. Doing what works to get you both some sleep is the first step. If that is you taking big deep breaths or singing or playing music or whatever, that is fine. Once you have a routine that works for her, helping her learn independent sleep is much easier. She will learn much better when she's not OT. Work may be a respite (it was for me) and you may find it healing.

Please be reassured that quietness is not required for babies to sleep. Actually if you think about their environment in the womb, there is always the noise of your heart beating, your breathing, your gut gurgling. She can and likely will learn to sleep there once she's more used to the noises. It will likely take some time and nights will be bad for a time, though probably only as bad as they currently are.

-Should I feed her as often as possible during the day hours so that she gets her calories then, or is this considered snacking vs giving her full meals at set times?

Breastfeeding on demand is recommended. I found just following the EAS order even when the feeds were close together with short naps helped to keep the guesswork out of things. It made a few things predictable for me and for DS. When you wake from sleep, you will eat, then you will play, then you will go to bed.

I'm going to try 10 min of extending her naps and hope for the best. She is usually 100% awake after 30-45 min so its never worked but I'll give it another go.

This does have to go hand in hand with longer A times of at least 2:15 if not 2:30. 2:30 is average at just turned 5 months, so if she's a super alert baby and has a higher A time requirement, 2:30 may not even be enough.

Hugs, lovely. Please find a way to look after you. At least talk to your husband about the possibility of PND and ideally your family doctor who may be able to help with counselling or meds or some combination.

[ginger428]

Bless you Bec for your experience, advice, and encouragement.

I could’ve written what you wrote timeless, excluding the daycare part.
Feel free to pm me if you need a hand to hold.  I have PPD. Definitely a great idea to find someone to talk to, especially if they have experience working with new mothers PP.

Thank you... and likewise. We are not alone. Many hugs.

[timelessnomad]

Good Morning!
Well its 5:30 am and I was pumping at 4:30am so up for the day. DD should be up around 6:30 so I have a bit of time to finally reply. First off thank you for all your support ladies. There are times when I'm up with her at all hours of the night and I try to think of the other Mom's and Dad's that are up with me across the world doing the same thing. But other times it feels quite alone. But being able to talk through this online with you is very helpful so thank you!

So right after I wrote my last post DD slept for her first 1.5 hour nap! On her own without any soothing from me. I was amazed and squealed with joy. When she woke up I showered her with kisses and told her how proud I was of her. The night was still rough but we have to celebrate the wins no matter how small. Daycare has been getting better. She has now finished all of her 4 / 3oz bottles so I'll be giving her 4 / 4oz bottles next week. More pumping for me but hopefully she gets more calories in the day and sleeps more at night. Then on Friday she actually took a 1.5 hour nap at daycare! So we're seeing change. Last night my husband watched her so I haven't gotten the lo-down on how she was, yet, but since I got sleep from 8:30pm - 4:30am. I feel great right now.

I could be wrong but don't think I have PPD. But I'd still like to find a therapist to talk through things. On the days I get sleep I can handle anything with a positive attitude, but on the days I don't its like the world is fighting me at every turn. I try to remember that on the bad days and just make sleep the priority. On Friday I literally fell asleep while pumping at work. They set up a nice cozy room for me with a cushioned chair and pillow and I passed out. I may do that more often when needed or go to sleep in my car at lunch. Even small catnaps do help me get through. I've also talked to my husband about him sleeping downstairs on my night with DD. Then I can go to bed right after she falls asleep for the night even if its at 7pm and at least I get a few hours before she is up over and over.

So little bits of progress here and there. She is showing soooo much interest in food and I really thing that when she goes on solids that things may be better for her. She just always seems hungry. And hopefully bumping up the bottles to 4oz will help too. She has her 5 month dr visit next week and she will be 5.5 months so we will see what he says about starting real food.

Ginger how are things with you going?

Bec, thanks so much for your advice!

Big hugs for you both.

[becj86]

So right after I wrote my last post DD slept for her first 1.5 hour nap! On her own without any soothing from me. I was amazed and squealed with joy.

WOOHOO!!! That's great. Just knowing is *can* happen is so nice.

but since I got sleep from 8:30pm - 4:30am. I feel great right now.

Sleep is amazing. You sound so different for having had a sleep and had a bit of success with a few good naps. I'm really glad.

I could be wrong but don't think I have PPD. But I'd still like to find a therapist to talk through things. On the days I get sleep I can handle anything with a positive attitude, but on the days I don't its like the world is fighting me at every turn.

I wasn't trying to diagnose you, I just wish someone had suggested it to me when I was struggling because I did have it and never got the help I needed, so when someone posts sounding like you did before, I just flag it.

Hugs xx So glad things are going better for you.