10 week old naps - hates shh pat and reflux

[Mum2lucy]

Hi

It’s baby no 2 for me and I got lots of support for baby no 1 so I’m back again 😄

Baby is 10 weeks old and the curse of the 40 min naps have arrived and I need help. Background to LG is that she isn’t putting on weight well and has had reflux which is medicated but I’m not sure is quite managed. I’m Breast feeding and have to try and feed as much as poss due to weight issues.

I’ve been trying to implement a wind down routine for nap and bedtime. Close curtains, song a song and swaddle and sit shhh patting. However my LG doesn’t seem to like shhh patt at all.
It doesn’t seem to settle her. So ive ended up feeding and/or jiggling to sleep. When she’s woken at 40 mins I’m trying to shh patt her back to sleep but it isn’t working. She has a big sister who is three around so I can’t spend 30 mins or so resettling her.

She used to nap in the sling but it seems to have lost the sleepy dust as she wakes at 40
Mins in there also. When she wakes at 40 mins, she is rooting around like crazy wanting to suck.

Any tips to help me try and get her napping better?

At night she goes down between 7-8 and normally does a good 4/5 hour stint and after that she wakes every 1.5-2 hours until morning

Thanks

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normally does a good 4/5 hour stint and after that she wakes every 1.5-2 hours until morning

5hrs is classed as sleeping through the night so she's doing brilliantly to manage that.

If she was previously sleeping longer than 40 mins she might need a little extra A time, maybe try putting down (or sling) 5 or 10 mins later than you are doing and see if it helps.

my LG doesn’t seem to like shhh patt at all.

Some refluxers do not like to be patted as it can be uncomfortable for them.  Instead try a rub either on the back if you are holding her in arms or in the sling or rub her side/nappy area/hip if she's in the cot.  Or if in the cot try a firm hand and a small but quite rapid motion like a jiggle, tiny movement a bit like being in a car or pram.  That's what I did with my DS as he didn't like patting (when he was older the odd time I patted he said "Can you stop that, it doesn't help you know!".
Instead of shushing you could try white noise or a song or key phrase.  Mine had a song I repeated over and over (every nap every night every NW...I sang it a LOT over the years!) and I also introduced key phrases which I repeated like a mantra rather than shushing.

Jiggling can be moved into the cot and can be weaned slowly with an on/off stop/start process just the same as patting.
It may also help to know that Tracy wrote in one of her books that if you do need to rock LO to sleep move in a forward backward motion rather than side to side as it better replicates the motion of being in the womb (ie walking or if you are standing still then put one foot forward and shift weight forward and backward).

Wanting to suck can be for comfort or hunger but can also be a sign that the reflux is not controlled.  Some refluxers can sometimes like to suck to reduce the pain, the swallowing helps. It's also fine to take smaller more frequent feeds and not necessarily move to 3hrs or 4hrs at those guidance ages.  Mine didn't move past 3hr E until 6 months when there was solids between each milk feed.

hope this helps some

[Mum2lucy]

Thanks for the reply. Guess I was reluctant to jiggle as it is a prop but maybe it’s needs must.
Since I wrote the initial post, she’s totally stopped sleeping long stretches and has been waking every 45 mins all night. It is killing me! She wants to suck all night and have my nipple in her mouth. I’m all for night feeds due to her weight issues but she wasn’t even feeding. Just suckling.
I can’t function like this! she is swaddled so I’m considering releasing an arm to see if she’ll suck this?

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The sucking all night can be due to reflux discomfort, have you been back to the doc to see if there is anything else can be tried?

Tracy mostly said not to jiggle and rock due to prop forming but she did also cover rocking for those who need it.  I know very many people oin the forums have jiggled and weaned it just like patting.  no problem.

[Mum2lucy]

We are under consultant care and we had an appointment about two weeks ago and I’ve got another in 4 weeks. She’s on top dose of ranitidine and also on omeprazole but she has a very sensitive gag reflex so I’m struggling to get her omeprazole into her as it’s a large liquid dose.

I’ve noticed with her naps that she shows tired signs at one hour so it’s upstairs and sleep routine which is only say night to sun, swaddle, sing a song or two so it isn’t long  but I can never manage to get her asleep before the 1.5 hour mark and then she does a 30min nap. When I am out and about she is exactly the same, grumpy from 1 hour mark but won’t sleep until 1.5 hour mark?? 30 mins would be an overtired nap though wouldn’t it? x

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It could be that she needs that longer A time.  LOs can get grumpy before napping though, maybe try to change the environment or activity for a few mins rather than taking her straight to bed?
Average A time is 1hr 20 and approaching 1hr 30 at 3 months so 1hr might just be too short now.

Yes 30 min is often OT but not always.  If it was OT she'd be more likely to be able to be resettled eventually but it sounds like she's not.  There are times LOs can do 30 mins because they slept too early.  I think I'd try another 10 mins of doing something, a song, or look out the window and chat about what you see, to delay the wind down.

[Mum2lucy]

Hiya,

So I’ve pushed a times out to 1.30 mark (give or take a few mins) and she goes down quite easily down with some giggle and shhhhh.
She has recently started thumb sucking and has been using this to self settle a little bit it’s meant that I have had to unswaddle one of her arms which is giving me its own issues.

She doesn’t connect sleep cycles so will only nap 40 mins but I guess this can be developmental?

Her night sleep is also awful, waking 45mins to an hour after her intital early chunk of sleep. I am having to feed her at each waking as it’s the only way she’ll settle. Hoping it won’t make her want to feed in middle of each nap? 

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She doesn’t connect sleep cycles so will only nap 40 mins but I guess this can be developmental?

Yes it can be developmental and also could be that she hasn't learned to link the cycles yet. you could try W2S to help her.

Her night sleep is also awful, waking 45mins to an hour after her intital early chunk of sleep.

Have you tried some cluster feeding before BT?  It's the part of the day where you don't need to feed at 3hrs but instead throw a few extra feeds in.  It could possibly help with that first waking for food so shortly after falling asleep (I wouldn't have though she'd need to eat just 45 min after BT feed but experimenting with a cluster might offer some information)..
FWIW mine was frequently disturbed in the early part of the night and even now he is 8yo he still makes noise often at about 1hr in to night sleep, it's just his thing I think as no amount of routine changing ever made a difference.  Mine didn't eat at that waking though and didn't always fully wake, he'd make some noise and either resettle or need a hand on him and a little reassurance to go back to sleep.

I am having to feed her at each waking as it’s the only way she’ll settle. Hoping it won’t make her want to feed in middle of each nap? 

A feed to sleep prop could disturb the ability to transition without sucking both at night and during naps.

[Mum2lucy]

We are at 15 weeks now and as usual with babies it’s all change.

She’ll go down for a nap no problem now self settling with her thumb from going into the cot awake which is amazing. She had been napping for anything from 1-3 hours but i have been waking her at 2.5hrs as I don’t want night and day confused.

The past few days she wakes at 45 mins and is struggling to get back to sleep (she is really trying) so I have tried upping her awake time to 1 hr 40 mins but it’s not made much difference.

Managed to get her onto bottles of ebm so she is sleeping better at night as well as she is taking on more calories during the day - well I think that’s why she is a bit better!

[Mum2lucy]

I’ve moved morning a up to 1hr 45 mins and I’m getting 50 min naps? Any idea what that is?
Don’t think it’s her sleep cycle as she wakes at 40 mins quite often and goes back to sleep if she’s doing a big nap
Thanks

[creations]

HI there
Great news that she started self settling and transitioning to longer naps

The 45 and even 50 min naps are likely UT based on your A times.
She's almost 4 months and the guidance times are 1hr 45 to 2hrs at 4 months. Remember it's only guidance, if your LO needs the higher end it's fine and if she needs it at a slightly younger age it's fine too.  My DS was always on A times ahead of his age, it's what he needed.
Always increase in increments to avoid a big extension in one go and OT.  I'd add maybe 5-10 mins and see how it goes for 2 or 3 days then if she is still not extending increase again.  At the same time you can use W2S, begin to sooth her back to sleep either before the 50 mins or be in there ready to put hands on the second she starts to come around, it's often easier to keep them asleep if you give the help before they fully wake.  If you can help her transition for a few days it can help to avoid OT from having too many short naps.

A times increase quite quickly between 4 and 6 months too so watch out for that, it can be quite a surprise.

Hope this helps