Help me please, I'm desperate and frustrated !!!!!!!!!

[bgayoso]

Hello,

I have too many questions about things I know I'm doing wrong so this post is going to be very long, forgive for this and I thank in advance all type of help anybody can bring me, I’m really desperate, frustrated and I feel really helpless.

My LO (spirited) is now 4 months and 1 week old, he's only BF, goes into an EASY plan of 3 hours and unable to sleep by himself,  he goes short naps of  30-45 min.

I've just finished my motherhood leave and my summer holidays finish next friday 23rd, day when I start to work once again  :cry: so my mother will take care of him in our home from 9 am to 14:30 pm. I'll leave at 7:30 and be back at 15:30 and his daddy timetible goes from 9 to 14:30 in the morning, fortunately I don't have to work in the afternoon so, from 15:30 he will be with me but my mum, who is 72, doesn't agree too much with EASY techniques so, the more I get before this time the better will be to keep on going with them later.

Our day goes as follows:

7 am (sometimes at 6): BF and back to sleep til 9 am
9 am: Wake up and play in his cot until 10 am
10 am: BF
11 am: Short nap 30-45 min
13 pm: BF   
14 pm: Short nap 30-45 min
16pm: BF
17 pm: Short nap 30-45 min
18:30- 19:00 pm: BF
Most of times another nap here between 19:30 and 20:15
20:30 pm: Bath
21 pm: BF and goes to sleep
00:30 am: DF and sleep (or at least so I try :shock: ) til 7 am

Until 23rd july (at his 12 weeks aproximately, I remind it cause it was his baptize day) he used to sleep from 9 until 3-4 am in a row, this day and the following one he slept even from 9 to 5 and after this everything began to go from bad to worse  :cry: He began to wake every hour or two during the night. I thought it could be hunger but I’ve reject this possibility as during the day he feeds quite well eating only one breast at each feed (I offer him the other one but he doesn’t want it). ‘Til this time I hadn’t DF him regularly, I had tried a few times but as he kept on waking for the next feed at 3-4 I didn’t continued with it but, at this point I began to DF him at 0am to try to avoid him of waking at 1-2 am but didn’t seem to have any effect, instead of it he kept on waking for the supposed feed of 3-4 and later on 6-7 and many times a night between these hours. To make sure it was not hunger I tried a couple of nights to feed him when he woke at 1, 3-4 and 6-7 but he kept on waking many times in the middle. I thought it could also be a growth spurt but as it lasts for so many time I don’t think it could be that.

Today it’s 5 am, he went to sleep at 9 with no help (incredible), got asleep in 10 min. at 23:30 woke, gave him DF, sleep ‘til 2:00, calm him with pat/shh in less than 5 min (have to take him out of his cot, impossible to calm on it), at 3:00 woke and cried for some seconds but went back to sleep on his own, and at 3:45 woke and impossible to calm ‘til now, he is calmed while he is in my arms (now in his father’s) but as we incline him just a little to put him into his cot he begins to cry and cry (that’s why I think it’s not hunger), we are no using any prop (no paci) and we don’t swaddle.

I used to swaddle him before with a sheet (and he hated it) but as he learnt to unswaddle I decided to buy the Miracle blanket which arrived to me on 23rd august. I began to swaddle him from his DF at 0am to 7 am (as it says it's no good to swaddle him more than 8h. consecutive and previously to the DF he didn't woke up any time). The use of it hasn't gone as I hoped  (although he seemed to like it much more than when I used the sheet) so I've stopped swaddling him after 10 days, first day I used it he slept in a row from 0am to 7am, the next day he woke at 4:30, gave him paci and went back to sleep, next one woke at 5:30, paci and back to sleep, next one woke at 6, paci and back to sleep (all these days he woke at 7, played for one hour in his cot and went back to sleep until 9:30) and the 5th day everything was ruined, as he began to wake and cry every hour and couldn’t get him back to sleep unless I feed him or rock him for 30 minutes. I know when he awakes is not hunger as previously he slept all those 7h in a row but from 9 to 3 instead of from 0 to 7. I'm sure the paci is the problem of his continuous wakings during the night.

Until now I used three methods to make him  sleep, the first of all was holding him in my arms walking for 30-45 min in a completely darken room  until he was almost asleep and put him into his cot then (if I tried to put him in his cot before he woke up completely only with the movement of inclination). The other one is to put him into his cot in stage 2 of sleep but with his paci and my hand beside his face, he plays with it while he’s awake but with his eyes closed and it takes it also between 30-45 min. And the third one is to rock him with his paci which makes him sleep in 10 minutes but with 2 props: the rocking in the arms and the paci.

Today I’ve been trying to sleep him without the paci or to take it out from his mouth before he’s completely asleep (this is called cold turkey, isn’t it??), I had to try it several times because he realises of it and begins to cry so I put it  on and start again (now he doesn’t spit it out some minutes later as he did before and stays for the all nap during the day and many hours a night).

Another problem is he doesn’t take naps longer than 30-45 min so sometimes the EASY plan gets an EASYSEA or something like that as he can’t be awake for longer than 1,5 h sometimes and his naps are too short but now, what really worries me are night wakings.

So, at this point:

-Should I keep on swaddling him??, if yes, do I swaddle him at 9 or at 0 am, and how long?? (hours a day and days)
-Should I keep on BF during the night when he wakes??
-How can I get him to get asleep by his own?? Do I rock him for a while?? Do I use a paci to calm him
-When exactly should I take out the paci from his mouth??
-How do I wake to sleep for naps??
-As they are too many things, which one should I start for??
-Is it too soon to go on an 4 hour EASY???

I know they are too many questions for an only post but I really don’t know where to star for.

Thanks all of you for listen to me and for any advice you can give me.

[Katet]

Firstly given your lo's age & the history you gave, right at the 12week mark your lo actually showed he was ready for the transition to a 4hour EASY, esp as you have determined he isnt hungry at night.
Being on a 3 hour EASY is probabbly actually making his catnaps worse & causing night waking.

given the swaddle hasn't worked I'd probably stop using it.

re bf at night, if that helps resettle your lo quickly then you may like to try it, but if he remains awake, I'd suggest trying to get him to sleep by other methods.

to get him asleep try rocking & paci until calm & drowsy & put him down with the goal to being able to put him down without being drowsy later & if he drifts off with the paci, take it out as soon as he is almost asleep... it can take practice to get the timing right there, but it helps them not to need it when they go through light sleep phases.

i don't think you can really do wake to sleep for naps, you probably need to do pu/pd to extend them.

The area I think you should start on is moving to 4 hour EASY & extending naps, there are some good announcements on how to extend them on the Naps board  but if it is a bit to hard at first when you are focussing on the 4 hour feed cycle, try a bit of EASAS & keep the A in the SAA really low key if possible, just let him lie in his cot alone, if he crys, then maybe join him in his room & read stories for a while, then try to get him back off to sleep again... ideally you'd like a 2 hour nap at this time.
Start on 3 1/4 hour easy for a day or 2 & move towards 4 in 15min intervals, you will probably find some times in the day move that way faster than others, I know they did with us & that is ok. 

HTH & post other questions as you need to.

[bgayoso]

Thanks for all your help and advices Kate,

Tonight at the end he finally got asleep at 5:30 after many, many times of PU/PD with his daddy but I think he only got overstimulated with all that movement and in the site of PU/PD says it's not an appropiate methode for babies under 6 months so I don't really know if I shoud use it.

Now (it's 12 pm) it took me 50 min of PU/PD to get him asleep and each time I PU it took him more and more to get calmed so I agree with the overstimulation, at the end I swaddled  him but he got more and more angry so, after those 50 min I gave him the paci and put him in his cot swaddled and as he was calmed I took out the paci after less than a minute and he's sleeping at this time.

So, do you think I should going on with the rocking and the paci until he's almost sleep and then take it out??, and if he wakes at night, should I BF at 4am (4 h. later of his DF??) only?? and the other times he wakes, do I go with the rocking and paci again?? Do you really trust on I should do PU/PD to extend his naps??

I'll try to move to a 4 h. EASY and see if it works. Could you explain me what do you mean when you say "keep the A in the SAA really low key if possible" and "HTH & post other questions" (sorry, my english is not very familiar and there are many expressions I don't understand)

Thanks again for all your help and patient with me and all these questions

[Katet]

Bego
Firstly I have never done PU/PD with a young baby...only did PD when my 2yo was standing... so for good advice you might need to ask on that forum. but I do know plenty of the mums on the April/May babies thread in the EASY forum have had success with their 4mo... have a look around that... the discussions of some of the finer tricks are in the pages around the 20's, maybe 25/26 something like that.

If you think he is getting over stimulated by the PU/PD then maybe give it up, but it maybe because he is used to another way & trying to get you to relise he wants the way he is used to... you are trying to teach a new skill to him. If you are happy trying the paci removal give it a go, but it may or may not work. I am not good on extending naps ( have had little success with #1 ds & so far #2 is a good sleeper for the most part) , but I do know plenty of people have had success with PU/PD... but you will need to seek advice elsewhere for that- sorry

Re the night feedings, I would try to resettle on the first wake up, simply because if you feed then, & not later, he will think, hey mum, why did you feed me last time, but not this time!

Sorry it should have been SAS so I meant doing a sleep, very quiet activity & then another sleep... trying to do it while entertaining my 2yo!
HTH = hope that helps!

Best get off to bed, our 2yo has not been sleeping well & early wakeups - he transitioned to a proper bed last week, so need to go to bed early.

[bgayoso]

Hi Kate,

I've been visiting the forum of naps to see how do other mums do to increase the time of naps and to see if PU/PD works with a so young baby. I've realised I don't do wind down to sleep so that can be one of the problems of our short naps.

Now it's 13:40 and my baby's just woke up from his first nap of the day, at 12:50 he woke and cry for a while so I got into his room and put him the paci on for 30 seconds more or less and then remove it and  it seems it's working !!!, but I won't be too much confidence as it can be he's very tired cause he didn't sleep well tonight.

Anyway, I'll try with the wind down and reduce the activity (I think I also was overstimulating him during his A time after reading some posts), go into a 4h EASY and give the paci a try instead of the PU/PD to see if it works

Only one more question: how do you suggest me I should resettle the night feedings?? should I stop DF til he wakes on his own and feed him at that time??, and after then when should I feed him??, every 3,5-4 hours only during the night (e.g. if he wakes at 11pm I feed him and then only at 2:30-3 and 6-6:30), and how many time should I keep on feeding during the nights??

When should I start his day at this point (now we go from 9 to 9)

Thanks once again
Bego

This afternoon I tried wind down with him and he slept in 15 min. with paci but took it out after 6 times of trying it, he slept from 15:45 to 16:20, went into his room and took me another 15 min to get him back to sleep (another 6 times of paci in and out) but 5 min. later he began to cry and his daddy is now with him trying to calm him and, at least, to stay in his darken nursery for another 45 min.

[Katet]

Wind down is very important, normally I would ask, but I've been trying to do some answers around my toddlers demands & forget bits occasionally. putting your baby down without a wind-down is like jumping straight into bed after having been at a rock concert or doing a marathon run to an adult... you won't go to sleep easily.

If 9-9 works for you go with it... a lot of people do 7-7, I do 7.30 -7.30, that works for us.

Hang in there it all takes time... like you learning a new job in an area you have no exprience, that is the way it is for your lo, he has to first understand things are changing & then he has to learn the new way... so you need to keep showing him the new way, every time you go back to the old way you confuse him & it makes it harder for him.

Re feeding in the night, well to be honest, only you can totally work that out, if I said feed this time & not that time, you could have a screaming baby on your hands & be saying but Kate said do this, why isn't it working... to me it is pretty much all or nothing, if you can't settle him with a paci & he is crying I'd feed, if he goes back off with the paci so be it. The key is for him to learn to go to sleep & re-settle on his own & then you will be more able to work out if his cry says "mum I'm hungry" or "mum I need your help to get back to sleep"

 During the day, watch him like a hawk, he will have some unique body language. With Aiden I was so confused, I couldn't work out anything, with Liam, I almost feel like I can read his mind, because I spent time, working out what the different crys mean ( tired crys are usually much more demanding than hunger ones) & what facial expressions meant etc.

[bgayoso]

Well, I thought just having my baby in my arms about 15 min. rocking him and singing (what I was doing for 30 min) could be a prop more than wind down, as he used to fall asleep in my arms. Now I've just made wind down for 20 min., a charming walk through the flat, a little more in his nursery, lights down, rocking with paci and put into his cot with his eyes almost closed, played alone with his arms for 7-8 minutes and got asleep, but with his paci. Sometimes I can get it out before he gets completely sleep, some others I can't as he awakes completely and I have to start once again, so I've been wondering: what about if I use the paci only for naps but not for the night?, could it work??

9-9 works but as I'll leave home at 7:30 to go to work I could do 7 to 7 but I arrive at 15:30 and if he goes to sleep at 7 I would have only 3,5 hours to spend with him (less if you count a nap in the middle) and, to be truth, I preffer 9 to 9 to spend some more time with him.

The problem of 9 to 9 is that I feed him at 7 and put him back to sleep until 9, at this time he wakes up and does some play in his cot by himself, change of diapper and huges until feed of 10 (which now will be at 10:30-11 with the 4h), so if  time to feed is 2 hours later of his wake up time I'm worried about if becoming an ESA instead of EAS can affect his patterns or can work anyway

Yesterday I managed without feeding himat night, he woke at 4 but with paci went back to sleep in a minute, at 6 he woke crying so at this time I've just feed him, so, if I want to carry on with a 9 to 9 perhaps I should feed him at 6 instead of 7 so it can take at least one hour after his feeding before naps time, don't know. At this point I always wonder what the hell can't we have some more time of motherhood leave as many other countries (here we only have 16 weeks !!!!!)

And you're right about being like a hawk, I do it, but the problem is my way back to work and that I won't be with him for half a day and, as I've said, my mum is taking care of him during the mornings and she doesn't understand me when I tell her about all of this, in fact she thinks every cry of my baby is 'cause of hunger or because he can be ill but she never thinks of getting tired and overstimulated (what the hell is that???), she's always asking me if I have enough milk and she isn't able to identify the signs he's telling us. For example, yesterday she was playing with him, squeezing a little butterfly 30 times a minute in front of his eyes, and as he became to look to another side I told her to stop it as he was tired of it, but she keept on doing it for some more minutes until he became to bear his arms to his face and arch his back, time when I have to explain her seriously what is the problem, but, she's 72 and, you may understand me if I tell you at this time is very difficult to teach somebody to do things in a different way. Anyway I still have two more days this week (on friday we travel for the wedding of my sister in law 600 kms away, let's see how he does) and 4 more days next week to teach her these things (she's coming at home everyday to help my baby to get used to her).
 
In fact I'll tell you I had to lie her and tell her I had a consultant with the pedi and that she's the one who tells me to do all these things  :wink:  to convince her a little more.

Ups!!, I think I've gone too long, sorry and thanks again for your advices.

[Katet]

Bego, you're doing well...
by all means if it works just to use the paci for naps & not night time, I think that is ok, esp if it will help when you aren't the one doing the naps... but work towards the goal of getting rid of it & don't become like me with a 2yo who still has it for naps (not night time ever either) If you get to about 6mo, you may find if you stop using it ( when you gain confidence to put him down with out it) when you put him down for naps, he will only expect it when it is your mother, association with different situations starts around that age.

Are you awake at 6am? because if you are then that might be a good time to start his first feed of the day. Also at Bego's age if he needs to feed at 10, but awake at 9, you could probably do AEAS, as he would be getting close to managing 2 hours awake... it is often quite hard ot fit the routine & I do plenty of EAS AEAS, even if it is 10mins of A after the E.

I think good on you for telling your Mum the Pedi, told you these things... all you are doing is looking after the best interests of Diego & keeping him from getting upset... you could also tell her that the Pedi told you babies make the loudest crys when they are tired & overtired or stressed by too much going on & the hungry crys are more like a "coughing type of cry"... which is true for Liam at least & fits with the description in the BW book. If you think about it as adults we don't get hungry in 1min flat... we notice we feel hungry over time & babies are the same, but I know I can quiet quickly start to feel tired & if I've got a bright light shining in my face... well I would almost instantly get upset about it.

Hang in there & great for lasting until 4am without feeding & using the Paci to stretch him out... I think you are doing great!!

[bgayoso]

Hi Kate,

Only a short post to tell you things are going a bit better. My mum started to take care of him and after a week I have to say he's doing it well with her.

His naps do not go further than 45 min, he has even reduce them to 30 min  :?  but at least I can get a "long" nap of 30 min + 45 min in the afternoon plus 2 or 3 short ones during the rest of the day and nights are going sometimes well and sometimes not so well but he doesn't use the paci and we're still working hard on sleeping on his own, hope to get it "soon"

I keep on doing 9 to 9 more or less, now he awakes at 7:30 after this first BF and stays awake until 8:30-9 am, S til 10-10:30 and then the rest of the day goes as before.

I've noticed I could be having a problem with my milk supply (maybe 'cause I've started to work) as these last 2 weeks he began to suck his fingers in the middle of the feed and he was being a bit hunger so I'm trying to increase my milk supply with fenugreek and brewer's yeast and giving him some formula to complement the BF (30-60 ml). Some nights, when he does a good DF (180 ml or more), are really good, the problem is that he doesn't want to eat so much milk always and some nights he wakes a couple of times. I don't know if hunger could be the problem of nights wakings instead of sleep during the day, because I can't get him to eat more during the day 'cause he doesn't want it.

Anyway I'll keep on working to teach him how to sleep on his own and analysing the day to see if the problem is hunger or sleep