9 months without sleep

[flame]

Hi all!
 I'm looking for suggestions on how to get my ds to sleep through the night.  He's generally up 5-10 times but never at the same hours.  Sometimes I can do pd and he'll go back to sleep; other times he's up for an hour.  He's been on a routine since August, but there was lots of AP before that. ( He's a reflux baby and the first months were hell.)  On Nov 6 I tried going to a strict 4 hour EASY schedule (the one in T's last book), but it made little difference.  After a couple weeks I eased up on the exact times and tried to follow his signs.  Still no improvement.  He's had bad week teething, a bout of extreme separation anxiety, and hit the 'I must stand up all night in the crib' milestones since then but the last week has been uneventful.  He's an extremely spirited child so we have nap and night time routines that never vary, & his room is dark. He generally puts himself to sleep though I do have to keep my hand on him after pd when he's overtired or overstimulated.  Also if he's not quite sleepy enough he'll protest my leaving the room.  I've tried moving his afternoon nap time around a bit the last week to see if that helps.  No luck.
His schedule is (give or take a bit)

7 up, bf, activity
8 solids - cereal and toast
8:30 activity
9:30 nap

10:45 up, bf, activity
11:45 solids
12:15 activity
1:30 nap

3:00 up, bf, activity
4:15 snack, activity
5:30 solids, low key activity
6:45 bath, bf, book, song (in rocking chair), then sitting quietly in dark room
7:30 asleep

I offer him water at night if he wakes and seems to need it.  (Our climate is extremely dry in the winter and I know I need water a couple times a night).  He does still have one bf somewhere between 3 and 4:15.  He's always ravaneous.  I suppose I should drop it but his tummy growls and he eats so much during the day that I don't know how to increase his intake then (as T suggests).  He will sleep for 2 or 3 hours after that feed. 
I know he's overtired much of the time.
Looking forward to any help!
Thanks.
Colleen

[brit2]

My ds will be 9 months this week and he stopped sleeping at 4-5 months of age. He was a reflux baby too and it was awful! He is a really fussy baby still. Cries most of the day and never sleeps. I am at my wits end. He is up about 5-6 times a night. I wish I had some advice for you. I am in desperate need of help too. I am so tired. I have a 2 1/2 year old ds too and he throws tantrums and screams all day. I am so desperate for any help out there. I sometimes feel like I am all alone with these two really hard boys. It is comforting to know another person is going through a tough time too. I am currently taking my 9 month old to a chiropractor. I think it might be helping a little with getting better sleep. I bf him still so the chiropractor also suggested I take fish oil supplements and that might help him sleep. I will let you know how it all goes. Let me know if you have found anything that works!

[flame]

brit2,
A friend of mine lend me her copy of 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child'  and, since I'd run out of ideas, and I started it last week.  Hated doing it, but I could relate all too well to the maternal depression that Dr. Weissbluth (the ped who wrote it) discusses.  It worked.  Ds is only up once a night to feed and sleeps through most naps now as well.  I really feel that I had become the prop for him and I had to stop going in.  I know the crying alone concept wouldn't have pleased Tracey, but ....  It's done.

[mattandcindy]

Flame
Don't feel bad, you have to do what works for you. I tried pu/pd, pat/shhh and they never worked for me. I also had to resort to letting her cry it out and it worked and she is a healthy, happy  baby who still loves her mommy and daddy even though they let her cry.
Now your baby is getting the sleep it needs, you just needed to help him get there.
I am glad you are getting the sleep you well deserve now!

[ChasMom]

Hi Colleen,
I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.  I am also another sleepless mom of a very spririted 9 month old who's a terrible sleeper.  We are occasionally blessed with a good night here and there but for the most part we are up several times every night between 2-5am.  Plus he's an early riser and a 30 minute napper to boot.  He's just basically overtired all the time.  At his 9 month check up, his ped pretty much suggested we do cry it out and trust me, I've had nights when I've almost gotten to that point.  So,  Dh and I kind of did our own variation.  We decided we have really been rushing in too fast and we had to shhh/pat until he was completely asleep so we think it was becoming a prop. 
What we have been trying for the past few nights is not going in if he's just whining and fussing even if he's fussing for a long time.  The other night he fussed for 1 1/2 hours before he cried.  Once he cries, we wait another minute or so depending on the cry, then go in lay him back down, tell him it's night, night, pat his back for a second and then walk out even if he protests when we leave.  If he's fussing again we let it go and only go in when he cries and repeat the same thing.  I don't know if it's working but after a couple of nights all we had to do was open the door and as we walked in the room he would lay himself back down like he knew that's what we were going to do, the night before he woke about 3 times and cried for a few seconds but put himself back to sleep each time and last night he slept through.  I'm not counting my blessings yet because there have been many times when I've thought things were turning for the better but I do hope it's helping him to learn to put himself to sleep and depend less on us to fall asleep.
Just hearing him fuss for so long made my stomach feel like it was in knots but honestly, they do still love you in the morning.  The way I see it a few rough nights are better than weeks and months of a tired, cranky mommy and baby. 
Hugs!

[mattandcindy]

Chas Mom
Congrats on getting you little one to sleep. It sounds like being persistant really paid off for you.
You should post your success story until night wakings post under success stories. Maybe others could be helped by your success!

[flame]

Thought I'd update on my ds.  He's back to waking up numerous times during the night.  Letting him cry hasn't worked either it seems.  And I have so much guilt now.........   So I've started to wean him from his last night feeding and see how that goes.  Very badly so far.  Spent most of last night crying (from 1:00 to 5:30).  I do pd and offer water which he takes sometimes.   I'm wondering if he still needs a night feeding?  Thoughts anyone?  He's almost 10 months now and over 24 lbs.

[Starry*]

Another thing that might help is a great suggestion I got from Tracy.  Make a bed for yourself in baby's room on the floor.  When baby awakes, you don't get up and you do not take baby out of crib, but you are right there to soothe them.  I never spoke to my DS when he woke up, but we did hold hands for a few minutes until he fell back asleep.  What you are doing is reassuring the little one that mommy's here, you don't need a feeding, go back to sleep.  Gradually, you'll want to slip closer to the door, and eventually back to your own bed.  May or may not happen the first night.  I never left DS's room until I knew he was deep, deep sleeping.

My DS would wake around 11pm, when I'd go in and camp out on his floor.  About 4 am I'd go back to my own bed.  Honestly I only had to do this a few nights in a row on occassion.  I started this technique after two years of continual night wakings, and one month before DS turned 3, he slept thru the night (it was on Christmas Eve~what a great gift!).  It took almost three whole years for him to sleep thru, three years of sleepless nights and lots of tears, but it's proof that someday, your baby will sleep thru the night and all this will be forgotten.  I promise.  And it's a million times better than letting baby cry it out. *

I know one of the nanny shows on TV also used a variation of this, by having mum or dad sit on a chair in the child's room and gradually scoot closer to the door until they could actually exit the room.

[mattandcindy]

Starry
Sounds like a good suggestion.
I think this is probably what the little one needs as he is 24 pds. I don't think he needs the nightfeed.
Good suggestion.

[flame]

thanks for the suggestions starry and cindy.  we'll let you know how it goes