Author Topic: Sleep deprived father  (Read 2514 times)

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Offline smithfields

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« on: January 03, 2006, 10:41:18 am »
Desperate for help!! My 14 wo ds keeps waking up every hour at night. He only seems to like sleeping on his side as he always wakes up when he is placed or rolls on his back. I've tried a baby snuggler and also wrapping him at night but he can't even manage 3 hours like he used to do.

We have tried all the approaches BW have advised routines, shh/pat and dreamfeeds but still no joy. I'm exhausted at night and dead during the day, I just can't keep up with him and cannot see him getting any better. What could it possibly be? dr's have ruled out medical grounds and simply tell me to put up with it and he will eventually grow out of it, but i'm at my wits end and extremely tired. Please somebody help me as i'm lost as to what I should do next?
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture!!

Offline cass*4

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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2006, 11:01:04 am »
Don't know f this'll help, in N.Z we have this safer sleep thing, it's like two triangle wedges, small one and big one, with material in between so you can position baby on their side and they can't roll over. It's also wide enough to allow for swaddles as you just move the wedges closer or further apart as you need it. Also have a safe-t sleep, same sort of purpose but is fabric that wraps around their body and mattress. Sounds like you have a spirited baby!! Is positioning the only thing waking him? Good luck!!!! Sleep deprivation is a killer! Also maybe it's environment? My daughter started waking every time some one even opened the bedroom door (she was in our room) so we moved her to her own little room (a bit earlier than expected) and she sleeps a lot better there. Around 3 mths seems to be when they become a lot more aware of their surroundings
Cassandra
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Offline Kimberly®

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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2006, 14:21:52 pm »
It actually sounds like your LO may have his nights confused with his days. You didn't say, but what about his days? What are they like?
Could you post a routine of a tipical day?
As for sleeping on their sides, while its recomended as being safer for babies to sleep on their backs, I was told by my DR that when my LO started to roll over for herself to just leave her be. If they are strong enough to roll then they are fine to move if by chance something gets in front of them. I'd recomend that you put your LO down on his back, but if he rolls to his side leave him be. His side is still a lot safer then his tummy.

As for your night time troubles, please send me the routine you have of nap and sleep times and then of how much he eats and I'll try to help you best I can.

PM me if you need more help :)
Have faith, it really does get better.
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Offline Mom2katiebug

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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2006, 16:48:41 pm »
I agree with seeing a whole day - how are naps?  Is he hungry?

My humble opinion is that you may need to do some sleep training.  What do you want his sleep to be?  Once you decide, make a plan on how to get there.  There might be intermediate steps - I wouldn't recommend changing everything at once.  We've had to do this twice so far with our LO and I think of it like ripping off a bandaid.  Just do it, make it through somehow, and it will be better when it's over.  You may have to endure a few very bad days, but once your LO learns the new way, things will be so much better.

Can you get a night or two of rest before you start the sleep training?  Maybe family or a good friend could wake with LO while you get some sleep.
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Offline smithfields

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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2006, 21:01:19 pm »
Hi all, thanks for all your replys. I forgot to mention we did buy the wedge thing but he is so strong now it was no match for his wriggling.
Typical day: ds is fully breast fed, was taking a bottle of expressed milk but has now refused this and has done so for the past 2 weeks, the only time he takes the bottle is at night for his dream feed but even that is a struggle now (30ml at the most).

Wakes 5am.  Feed and then put back down with shush/pat.  That sometimes works to get him to sleep another hour or so.

We try to start the day at 7am but this is not always possible as he is so tired and may be asleep by then.

He does not really cry for feeds so my wife offers the breast every 3-4 hours.  He feeds well sometimes but not always.  Will cry at the breast at times but he doesn't seem unsettled after a feed and puts on weight steadily.  Weighs 5.8kg at present.

He takes a nap usually after 1-1.5 hours of awake time, so if up at 7am will be put down at 8.30am.  Sometimes easy to settle, other times will take a while.  He will sleep for 45mins and then shush pat to continue the nap for another 1 hour or so.  Other times will sleep for 2 hours. Usually gets about 4-5 hours of sleep in blocks of 1 to 1.5 hrs with an afternoon cat nap as per the BW suggested schedule.

He has a feed at 5pm and 7pm.  Bath around 6.30pm.  Then dreamfeed around 10 or 11pm but that is hard now as he doesn't take the bottle and we have started bf for this feed. 

He will then sleep from 7pm to 7.40pm and be resettled.  He then sleeps until about 9.30 or 10pm if we are lucky (he used to do 7pm to 11 or 12pm until the last 3 weeks). 

After the dreamfeed he is doing the mantra cry for hours on end all night and needs to be constantly resettled.  We try to leave him to self soothe but he doesn't and it escalates to a cry.  We offer feeds around 2am and 4am but he does not take a full feed, rather a suckle and back to sleep.  He does use a dummy, but does not get bothered when it falls out.  We have tried to put him on his back to sleep but he wakes up more frequently then, apart from once when he slept for 6 hours! 

He can't turn to his side from his back and so when he is awake at night he easily settles back to sleep once placed on his side again.  He moans all night and then is up for the day at 5am, happy but very tired and rubs his eyes all the time.We have been able to stick to a 3 hour EASY at times but the nights make it very difficult as he cant stay up that long through the day but we have ruled out hunger as the cause of waking as he does not take the feeds then.

Drs put him on Zoton for reflux but i'm not too sure that is the issue.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture!!

Offline Mom2katiebug

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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2006, 22:02:23 pm »
I'm sure others will contribute some good ideas, but here's my initial thoughts.  Some of the reasons for transitioning from 3hr EASY to 4hr EASY include not taking as much at a feed (presumably they're not hungry enough), 45 minute naps (not sure why), erratic night wakings and extended awake times.   Sounds like you have a few of these and may want to try a 3.5 hr EASY or 4 hr EASY with your LO. 

Also, try to start the day at the same time EVERY day.  Tracy usually says 7am, but others have found that their LOs want to start at 6am (ugh!) or 8am (much more civilized).  But, even if they've been up at 4am, 5am, 6am, and sleeping really well at 7am, wake him and start his day.  Then you can plan the days meal and they'll come at about the same time each day.  Imagine if you ate a big steak dinner at 10am every day.  The first few days you wouldn't want much of it, but after a while your body would come to expect it and adjust.  I think the same think works for our babies.  But, if the day starts off at a different time and all the meals are at different times, your body will never create the expectation. 

Finally you could "retrain" your LO to sleep on his back.  It will be confusing at first for him and he'll resist and cry and be frustrated, but after a few naps/nights, he'll catch on and you won't have the "rolling and resetting" issue.  And, does re-doing his winddown routine help with the night wakings? Sometimes it reminds them that they're supposed to be sleeping.
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Offline smithfields

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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2006, 00:41:04 am »
Hey thanks for the replys guys. Have been trying to re-train lo to sleep on his back for the past few nights now, with very little success. He goes down after alot of persuasion and manages to sleep on his back for about an hour after i have put him down at 7pm, when he has had a feed and bath and wind down time.

He then wakes after an hour moaning so I leave him for a while to see what he does, and it eventually turns into a cry so I have to go into him and resettle only managing this if he goes on his side and once asleep is rolled onto his back, have also tried wrapping him too.

I just don't know what is wrong with him, why can't he self settle? why can't he soothe himself, we have tried so much and have persisted and worked hard again and again and still no change. There must be a way to resolve this, the answer can't possibly be to just wait it out until he is 6 mths plus and hope he grows out of it.

Sleep deprived father, continuing his search for the answer that will lead him and his wife to a much needed good night sleep!!!!
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture!!

Offline Mom2katiebug

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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2006, 00:50:29 am »
You may want to try another post specifically on getting LO to sleep on his back - if that's what you want him to do.  And, it will take some time.  Everytime I've asked for advice on sleep training, I get the same input.  Stay consistent.  So, if you want him to sleep on his back - don't go back to the side.  It can be confusing him and making the learning to sleep on his back harder for him. 

Does he associate being on his back with playtime?  If so, you may need to introduce some specific sleepytime cues so he can learn that sometimes on his back he needs to sleep. 

Also 14 weeks may be a bit young for your LO to self-soothe.  My 11 WO shows no signs of self soothing.  She will suck her fingers, but it's more for play.  When she's upset, they mean nothing to her.  The paci does help, but only if it stays in.  She isn't able to replug it if it falls out.
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Offline Luisasmum

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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2006, 02:07:07 am »
How about letting him sleep on his tummy? If you're worried, just do it for naps during the day so you can watch him until you feel better about it. Just make extra sure all the other SIDS reccommendations are adhered to if you give this a try. Tummy sleeping stopped my dd's constant wakings but it's pretty scary first off!!!
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Offline smithfields

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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2006, 22:45:07 pm »
Hey all, I've tried putting him on his tummy but he absolutely hates it, after about 5 mins he just cries and looks really uncomfortable.

When I put him on his back to sleep, he is too attentive and goes from a sleepy state when im putting him down to an alert one. I also try to settle him on his side first and then gently roll him on his back. This works for about an hour and then he wakes up!! Its as if he can't continue through the cycles and at the end of each cycle he wakes up...Little monster!!!
Sleep deprivation is a form of torture!!

Offline Kimberly®

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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2006, 22:52:08 pm »
I think that is he's able to roll to his side on his own, he's strong enough to move his head to the side, and seems more comfortable on his side, then you should let him sleep on his side. If rolling him to his back wakes him, then leave him be.
Thats just my opinion on the sleeping position thing.
Kimberly

Offline Luisasmum

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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2006, 15:30:10 pm »
Aw geeze, I wish I could help you more. Even telling you it does get better won't help either. In Perth, we have a clinic called Ngala that helps parents with settling and sleep issues. Do you have that type of thing where you are? Might be worth checking out some of the services available. I went to Ngala for a day stay and learnt alot.

Is it possible for you to take a break from getting up to bubs at night? I was at my wits end at one stage in the early days and my husband took over for a couple of nights over the weekend. I found just getting two nights in a row of solid sleep every now and then really helped me to cope with the night wakings.

Hope it all gets better soon.
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Offline Gilby

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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 01:59:26 am »
Hi Smithfields,
We went through the same at 3.5 - 4 months and found that she no longer wanted to be swaddled and particularly if the weather is warm (don't know where you are but it's hot here!). 

She also liked being on her side and so I would swaddle all but 1 arm, place her on her side facing the wall (away from me) so I could shh pat her if necessary.  That tip came from the local family clinic sister at a place called Dalwood in Seaforth, Syd.  Don't know if you have something similiar but it may help to check it out.

She sometimes escaped from the swaddling and eventually wriggled all the way out.  Then we stopped it completely as she was rolling onto her tummy on her own.

Hope it gets better soon, but ask for help if you need it from your local clinic/sleep centre/nurse whatever.
Gill - Mum of Lucy 30 March 2005

Offline Katet

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Re: Sleep deprived father
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2006, 10:13:44 am »
Quote from: smithfields
I just don't know what is wrong with him, why can't he self settle? why can't he soothe himself, we have tried so much and have persisted and worked hard again and again and still no change. There must be a way to resolve this, the answer can't possibly be to just wait it out until he is 6 mths plus and hope he grows out of it.

There is nothing wrong with your lo, they OFTEN can't self sooth or settle until much older & as they get mobile more problems do arise... the key is to be consistent & actually trying to get him to sleep on his back & side, will help later when he rolls around more.

I do think having read your post, part of the problem may be a dummy one, the fact that it does help him go back to sleep, even if he isn't bothered when it falls out he is at the right age for it to have become a prop.

One other thing to consider given the unsettled time is at night & your lo is bf... it could be what your dw is eating... many babies react to dairy & other foods, so if the unsettled period seems to be getting progressively worse, she might like to consider looking at her diet... there are some posts on this in the Breast feeding forum

HTH
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