Author Topic: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!  (Read 1775 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« on: January 26, 2006, 14:26:23 pm »
Hello everyone! I am new to this website so I hope I am doing this the right way...!
I have our 4 month old Liam on the EASY routine, however it got a little off track over Christmas with all of the traveling we did. Right after Christmas we got him back on track (we had a very smooth transition from co-sleeping to sleeping in his own bed as well at this time) and things seemed to be going great, now suddenly (the last week) he seems to be waking up every night several times. He has always slept really well at night and only wakes for feedings and then back to sleep about once a night. We also had a smooth transition from 3 hour EASY to the 4 hour EASY routine over the last month and Liam had been doing well on it for the last 2 weeks. Now for some reason he has decided to get up during the night, and at first I thought it might be a growth spurt as we had never had this problem before. However after a couple days I realised the times were about the same time, so for the last 3 days I had been 'shushing' and 'patting' Liam back to sleep when he woke. He was going back to sleep easily however Last night Liam decided that he was going to wake up EVERY half hour to an hour after midnight!! I would get him back down and he would wake again, not hungry or in pain it seems.... I don't know what to do, but I would like him to sleep easily again!!! I would really appreciate some ideas!!!
Thank you!!
P.S. Liam just turned 4 months old yesterday... not sure if that helps any!
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2006, 01:38:06 am »
Hi!!

Was Liam waking up at the same time after you started sh/patting him at night?  Or was he waking around the same time before you started this?  I'm only saying this because according to the BW books, if they wake at the same time it's normally out of habit because of something being done (like him waking because he knows he will be getting some attention from you)  Or, is there some kind of noise (heater, neighbour's car, etc) occurring at the same time each night?  Mind you, he's probably just a bit disorganized because of the travelling and I would think it would work itself out especially considering he was such a good sleeper before.

How have his day naps been?  Is he getting too much sleep and that's why he can't seem to stay asleep?  Or is he not getting enough sleep and getting overtired?  I know, it's so complicated.    Also, it's great he's on the 4 hour EASY...how much milk is he getting during each feed?  But considering that you can get him back to sleep with sh/pat I'm sure he's not hungry. 
Maybe if you share his day schedule maybe I or somewhere else can help you out.


Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2006, 01:41:56 am »
I just was wondering too, does Liam use a soother or suck his thumb? Does he have a blankie or something equivalent?


Jo-FrasersMum

  • Guest
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2006, 01:57:28 am »
Hi there

Zelka has asked some great questions - they will be really helpful for us to try and give you some suggestions.  I would also like to know, how does Liam go off to sleep at the beginning of the night?  Do you have a night time routine?  Does he go into his cot awake or is he already asleep?  Also is Liam rolling yet and is he swaddled to sleep?

Thanks!  I'll check back
Cheers
Jo

Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2006, 02:50:27 am »
Hello! Thanks for trying to help out! We have been using the shush and pat method for about 2 months now. at first we used it only during his daytime naps as he co-slept with us until about a month ago. It was effortless to get him into his own bed - he sleeps in a cradle beside our bed as we were expecting the transition to be a little harder, as well it is easier for me to feed him as I breastfeed. When we decided to put him in the cradle we were really good about be consistant and did not let him fall sleep elsewhere, however we did let him sleep in the bed when he woke at 6:00am a couple nights (not in a row). Although I am not positive I don't think that it had an effect on him as it was towards the beginning of him sleeping in the cradle not recently. Although this past Sat night Liam was babysat by his grandpa for the first time, and although he put his to sleep in Liam's bed, he did not shush and pat him. I was told after that he walked him to sleep then put him down. We put Liam down while he is sleepy but still awake.

 Liam's routine goes like this: 7:00am Eat; 7:30 A; 9:00 - 1 1/2 - 2 hour nap; 11:00 E; 11:30 A; 1:00pm - 1 1/2 nap; 3:00pm E; 3:30 A; 5:30 1/2 nap; 6:00pm E; 8:00pm sleep... although it is extremely hard for us to get him to sleep until 9:00pm. He usually wakes up between 3 - 5 for a feed. We are very careful not to walk, rock etc. (we had done this for the first two months) we only shush and pat and pu/pd if necessary. He did have a problem prolonging his day naps starting at 3 months he would only sleep 45 mins but since using the wake to sleep method this isn't an issue usually.

Since I breastfeed I am not sure how much he is getting per feed, only that if I pump he will take 5 ounces usually. He feeds until satisfied and doesn't fuss after eating.

Liam uses his soother to sleep at night. He doesn't usually want it during the day only at night.. do you think this could be the issue? he doesn't usually wake up as soon as it is gone but maybe it is becoming more of a prop than before...? He does suck his thumb/fingers/fist whatever he can get in his mouth but not while sleeping (as he has the soother).

We try to have the same routine nightly with Liam. We bath (not every night); give him a baby massage (only after his bath); give him new warm dry clothes (he is a drooler.. could he maybe be teething?) put on a lullaby CD; cuddle him and read a story then put him down unswaddled (he doesn't roll over yet but he kicks off the blankets or does the bum thump.. pulls up his legs and bum and thumps them down!!) then put him in the cradle and shush and pat him. it usually only takes 5 minutes to put him down......
Thanks again for any help!! Hoped my novel helped out!!!
D.
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2006, 03:07:49 am »
I forgot to add the worst part... I caved in last night after hours of putting him back in the cradle I created another potential problem by letting him sleep in the bed around 6:00am and let him (and myself for that matter!) sleep until 8:00 :'(
We cont.d the routine today but 1 hour later.... we will see how tonight goes!
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2006, 14:25:40 pm »
First of all, I think we've all caved in more often than not so don't be hard on yourself for bringing him into bed.  I was the worst for a while with giving Nikolas the breast in order to fall asleep. :-[  I think it's also fantastic that you were able to lengthen his day naps using wake to sleep.

As far as I can tell, your day schedule looks fine, pretty much ideal I think.  It doesn't look like he's getting overtired at all.  If he didn't have the late catnap I'd say he should be going to bed around 7 but otherwise I think it's all okay.

When you say that you put him to sleep at 8 but you don't get him to sleep until 9, is this because he cries?  Or is he just in his crib?  If this is the case, I would leave him in there if he's not upset. 

As for the soother, does he fall asleep with it in his mouth or do you remove it when he is still sleepy?  If he falls asleep with it in his mouth, when he partially wakes in the middle of the night, he may need it to be put back in as he's accustomed to falling asleep this way.  IF this is the case, you may want to think about weaning him from it.  I don't have too much advice about that because our lo started preferring his  thumb at around 4 1/2 months so he started refusing the soother.  I find it interesting that you say Liam only wants the soother for night sleep.  Maybe he would then be okay without it because he's obviously capable of sleeping during the day without it.  (Check out the Props board for more advice on this)

As for grandpa's sleep style, he's not there everyday so I wouldn't worry about it.  My FIL whose absolutely wonderful does the same thing with our son whose 11 months!!!  I used to cringe but the once a month he does this, I figure it won't hurt.  However, if he or someone else will be watching Liam regularly, I would talk to them about how you want him to be put to bed.

That's all I can think of for now....I hope Jo or someone else can offer you something more.  Let us know how things go!


Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2006, 15:43:23 pm »
Hey! Well I think last night went extremely well, Liam went down at 8:30 and it took us until 9:00 to actually get him to go down for the night (we would be out and then wake 10 mins later, so we had to stay a little longer.) He woke up at 3:00 for a feed which is normal for him (I don't give dream feeds, for some reason I found that when I do he wakes quicker) then he woke up for the day at 6:45 (much better than 6:00!!)

If we put LO to sleep at 8:00 then he just stares and Cries, almost like he isn't tired at all, it is extremely hard to get him to settle and he ends up screaming and crying which is harder to calm. it takes us just as long and he ends up going to sleep around the same time or later. When we put him down a little later he seems to go down much easier, he fusses (his little tired talking) but we can see his eyes closing and him drifting to deep sleep. We haven't actually ever just left him to see if he would fall asleep, we always shush and pat... If I hear him fuss I will jet upstairs to make sure he goes right back to sleep (which I am trying to do but it is really hard for me!!) I always put the soother in his mouth. I think I am going to wean him from it, as I would prefer for him not to have it anyway. I just hope he will learn to use his thumb for comfort... Plus I don't want to overload him with changes, but I'm just not sure what to do!!   ???
Also I do use the soother for his day naps but he doesn't use it while he is awake during the day. lately I have been trying to see if he would go down with out it and he rarely does. Although yesterday he went down twice with out it. Today he went down without it but woke up 40 Min's later, not sure if it had anything to do with the soother but I think it did because he was trying to suck my arm (again maybe he is teething?? how common is it around this age?)

All of Liam's Grandparents are absolutely wonderful so I know that they would do anything to help out while putting him to bed, I just fear that because they don't know exactly how we do it, lo may just get upset. I think it may be easier to let them get him to sleep how they can - the thought of him crying for his mama and Dada while we are out makes me so sad (I know it is crazy but we are both young (24 & 25) and new parents!!! I will blame my insanity on that!)   

Thanks guys for the help!!
D.
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2006, 16:17:31 pm »
when I said: " If I hear him fuss I will jet upstairs to make sure he goes right back to sleep (which I am trying to do but it is really hard for me!!)" I meant to say that I try not to run up stairs and attend to him before he even cries, however it is hard for me to do because I really don't like to hear him upset. Plus it makes me feel like an awful mother if I don't get him before he gets upset or if I hear him cry  :'( ( I know I'm not a awful parent I just feel that way when I hear him cry or fuss for me and I don't run to get him) Maybe this is part of the problem...!
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />

Offline zelkad

  • BW Aficionado
  • ***
  • Showing Appreciation 10
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 220
  • Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2006, 03:23:20 am »
HI!  I'm so glad to hear that you had a better night.  Did you get a chance to check out the props board for soother advice if you think that will help?  You mentioned that guys have never given Liam the chance to drift off without sh/pat.  It's a scary thought isn't it.  I remember standing over Nikolas' crib waiting for him to stir around 40 min and sticking the soother to avoid him waking....I think at some point I listened to my husband and gave him the opportunity to go into the next sleep phase on his own. (I do think he needed my intervention for a while though)  Anyhow, maybe when you're comfortable you can try and see if he'll go without sh/pat but you have to be ready for this too. 

As for running in and rescing little Liam, I think that is something you have to work on.  You're obviously a wonderful caring and amazing mom.  However, you don't want him to become too dependent on you so he cannot settle on his own (I know, easier said than done)

As for teething, it is possible.  Our lo didn't cut a tooth until 6 months but my bestfriend's baby had her first at 3 months :o  Have you noticed excessive drooling?  However, even if you have, it could just be his salivary glands developing.  Teething pain, for the first few teeth anyway, is quite tough for them.....it's a different type of cry.  (Mind you, it doesn't bother some babies much) 

From what you've said though, I think you may want to think about soother weaning and or using sh/pat only when necessary.  But who knows...you had a great night last night so it may continue and last week will be a distant memory!

Keep us posted!
Zelka


Jo-FrasersMum

  • Guest
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2006, 11:31:43 am »
Hi there

Again Zelka is giving you some great advice.  Sounds like things are improving too which is brilliant.

The only thing that really stood out to me is the late-ish bedtime - 8pm is quite late for a "normal" routine.  If those night wakings persist, perhaps you could try moving bedtime a little earlier - I know it sounds strange but babies generally sleep better and longer if they go to bed at the optimal time for them, which biorythmically for most children is between 6 and 7pm.

Otherwise, well done and I hope you keep having improved sleeps
 :)

Offline Liam's Mama

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 120
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2345
  • Our sweet sugar plum :)
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 4 Mth old suddenly night waking a lot... help!!
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2006, 13:02:21 pm »
Thanks for the great advise from both of you! Last night went very well again! Liam woke once to be fed and then woke for the morning at 6:30 (not great but I can deal with that!)  What we are going to try is lowering his bedtime 15 Min's at a time until it is a little lower and see if that is better for him as well.
I did look at the props boards and decided to try to wean him of his soother. Yesterday I cut his soother out of his day naps (which was hard as he tried to suck on my arm as I put him down  :'( ) but it didn't take long for him to settle down for his nap. Then last night I got him to go to sleep w/o soother, however when he woke for his feeding he needed it to go back to sleep, I gave in and let him have it because he did so well with the day naps and to initially go to bed... I guess we may have to tackle this day by day! LO didn't try to find his thumb or hands to suck though, I thought he would have as he sucks them all day long.

While my brother was over yesterday he said that he though Liam was teething as well. I guess only time will tell if he is, in the mean time we have traded in wash cloths and bibs for "Spit rags"  (as the other half refers to receiving blankets as) and 3 or 5 new outfits a day!
<img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/iGNhm4.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />
<img src="http://b1.lilypie.com/zn4xm4.png" alt="Lilypie 1st Birthday Ticker" border="0"  />