helpless with 2 !!!

[busymomof2]

i know this is going to sound so selfish, but can a 4 month formula fed baby be able to sleep through the night? and if so, is there anything i can do to encourage this? the reason i ask, is my dd goes to bed around 8pm, i df her abot 1030 or 11pm then she wakes again between 3 and 4 to eat then has a pretty restless sleep requiring me to go in and out of her room to pat her or put soother back in until about 630 when she is up for good.  my biggest struggle is that i also have a 3 year old who gets up several times in the night as well (that's a whole other issue, anxiety at night) so as you can imagine, i am exhausted as is my dh who is a great help but is away at work throughout the night usually.  can i water her 4am bottle down so that she may stop waking for it and eat more during the day? she also naps an hour in the morning and about 2 hours in afternoon then a 1/2 hour cat nap around suppertime.. she is eating about 4-5 oz every 3-4 hours during the day..she was born 8lbs 8 oz and currently weights 15 lbs...
any advice would be apprciated!!

[Lªuren]

Hiya You don't sound selfish at all!!  I struggle to get up with one let alone 2 children {{{hugs}}}
 
My little boy is 4 months old now. His birth weight was 8lb 2oz and is now 15lb 6oz - 69cm in length. He is now only formula feed and has only the last 2 night slept through. I don't dream feed, I tried it once and he woke at the same time he would have if there was no d/f.   I don't use a soother, but I do need to swaddle him.

The only thing I do to encourage this is make sure he drinks at least the minimum required for his weight (between 31 - 38oz approx.) so he gets  all his requirements through the day. He changed to a 4 hr EASY when he was 3 1/2 months;
Wakes at 7am - Feeds @ 7.30, 11.30/1200, 1600ish and 1930/2000 - only 4 feeds (7-8oz + any n/f (usually 3oz) - bed for 2030.

The last few weeks have been a NIGHTMARE he is teething and got his 3rd and final jags. He was up every 20mins to 2hrs    (so fingers crossed for tonight)

When you LO is restless after her feed is it wind? I find if I feed my boy anymore than 3oz he gets unsettled with wind until it is time to get up. Also are you going to her straightaway or waiting to see if she can get herself back to sleep?

The naps also look fine - mine takes about the same.

Just a thought what size of teat is she taking, I had to buy faster teats the other day and WHAT a difference, he takes more per feed in a faster time!!!    If you can get more in during the day, the night feeds will sort them selves.

Laurenx

[Lªuren]

Take a look at this post, I know it is for an older baby but it is something to work to...... 

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php/topic,46907.15.html

I just wanted to share my story in hopes that it may help another sleep deprived parent out there.   Our problem was feeding in the night. Leah already knew how to go to sleep on her own, she would just wake up to eat at night. I would feed her and she would go back into the crib awake and fall asleep.

Around 6 months old our DD, Leah started waking at night and the easy thing to do was to feed her. Major AP!  :oops: If I fed her she went right back to sleep, if not she would continue to wake up. From 5/6 months till 9 months she would wake up to three times a night to eat. The times were always erratic, so I knew she was hungry. What I didn’t know at the time was that I had trained her to be hungry in the night. If you were to have three meals in the middle of the night every night, eventually you would wake up hungry too! At the time I was stumped. She went to sleep completely on her own for naps and nighttime, so I knew she didn’t have a suck to sleep association. She did, however, take in less formula during the day than at night and she would refuse to eat any solids or breakfast (would you eat breakfast if you had drunk 10-18 ounces of formula at night?  :roll: ) After reading countless books, I figured out that YES, a nine month old may be hungry in the night IF you have continued to feed her every night. She was getting most of her nutrition at night instead of the day.

OUR PLAN – Tracy books suggests decreasing the ounces you give your child during the night every three nights. I decided to modify. Because I knew that she didn’t have a suck to sleep association I decided to keep the bottles at 6 ounces but add more water than formula every few nights. (I did read this in another book) I took it slowly, I knew she needed time to adjust.
Nights 1 – 3: All night bottles – 4 ounces milk 2 ounces water
Nights 3-6: All night bottles – 3 ounces milk 3s ounce water
Nights 6-9: All night bottles – 2 ounces milk 4 ounces water
Nights 9-12: All night bottles – 1 ounce milk 5 ounces water (I never had to do this!!!!)

After a week she stopped waking to eat!!!!!!!! We never even made it to nights 9-12. We have been free from nightwakings for a week and I feel like a new women! Leah eats breakfast like a champ now and takes around 20 ounces of formula during the day only! She sleeps from 6:30/7-6/6:30 with no wakings!

[busymomof2]

i did read that post and was thinking of trying it!!  although my dh disagrees and says we have to let her go longer in order to stretch her tummy out in order to get her to eat 7 oz like she should be...
she does only heat 4-5 oz at a feed and her daily intake, including the 4am feed is really only about 28-30 oz...but she certainly isn't thin??? 
i don't know what to do!  i am against the soother thing but she had been hospitalized recently with a respitory virus...we used to put her to bed awake but that has all gone out the window for obvious reasons since her hospital stay  and now she needs to almost be rocked to sleep and needs a soother but i feel so badly for what she went through so i don't expect her to fall asleep on her own anymore...she is using the medium flow and that seems to be working fine....
i'm pretty confused, and exhausted!

[Lªuren]

hi again

After reading some other posts, it seems the main advise from the moderators on the "Getting Back on Track forum " is that a good day time routine means that the night-time one will happen on its own. They suggest re-establishing EASY during the day 4month's = 4hr EASY.

I know its not really what you need to hear, but by the sounds of it she is waking from hunger. Mine took 28oz during the core day hours yesterday and because of that woke at 0330 for a feed, he drained 3oz but I gave him water after that - whereas the prev 2 nights he slept through because he had 32oz + in the core hours.   

I think your main focus should be to increase her core hour milk intake & re-establish her EASY routine :
How long is it taking to feed her during the day? Is she spitting the teat back out her mouth or rolling it around in her mouth? That was my cue to know he needed a faster teat.
How long has she been out of hospital?

Laurenx

[busymomof2]

hi! thanks for keeping in touch! she has been out of hospital since last thursday. she really does not have alot of interest in eating..but as i mentioned, she certainly is not thin or lacking in the weight department. i have gone 4 to 5 hours between feeds in the day only to have her eat about 4-5 oz when i do feed her. ( i thought she'd be so hungry she'd eat 7-8 oz)  the odd time she will be upset and obviously want a bottle but i can't force her to eat anymore than she already is in a sitting (i wish i could).  it's like she is on her own schedule...she likes to get up in the night to eat!!!!!!!!
i'm going to try the fast flows i guess..she is already on the medium flow and sometimes they seem like too much, so i'm not sure....i'd love to try her on solids, maybe that would fill her up during the day but she isn't even 4 months yet???
probably not a good idea? i know i started my son early, but i can't remember when..

[Jo-FrasersMum]

Hi there

Lauren has given some great advice - if your daytime routine is a bit messed up you can be sure the nights will go along with it.  And it is so much easier to get the days sorted out - and then the nights will follow from there. 

The other important thing is to work on getting your LO back to falling asleep independently.  Once she is able to transition herself back to sleep, when she does wake you will have a better idea whether she is waking from hunger or because she is unable to get herself back to sleep.

Also if she is waking because she needs the soother replaced - I guess you need to decide are you prepared to keep getting up to replace the soother (some mum's opt to do this instead of weaning) or do you want to wean it?  If you want to wean the soother you can look at the gradual weaning suggestions at the top of the props board for ideas.

Good luck!

[Lªuren]

Hi again
I started weaning a couple of weeks ago (on the adv of my HV), however I have found that his milk intake dropped dramatically and he got up in the night for it. Calum is my first so I am not sure if all babies would do the same.   I am also having to contend with night wakings due to teething.