Waking earlier and earlier

[sadiebean]

He never took a catnap (3rd nap). Up until about 10days ago, only his morning nap was dependable. For the afternoon, I couldn't get him to sleep more than 20min, IF he went in his crib. So we'd use backup plans (car, nursing). And I was lucky if I got one PM nap.

Up at 5am again this morning, even though he only had 9hrs total sleep. Took till 6:30am, but I got him to fall back asleep. Up at 8am (10hr30min total sleep, seems typical for him). I'm not sure if I follow my usual nap routine, and if so, do I count myself lucky that I can keep him up a little later w/o him being tired?

It's like we're missing 30-60min in the day where he should either be sleeping or be able to stay awake -- w/o it he's ready for bed earlier and getting up earlier every day.

Should I make up this time by adding a bit to both his AM and post-AM-nap awake time (maybe 20min before the AM nap, 30min before the PM nap?)

Or... Should try for a catnap? If so, how long after his afternoon nap? How much is too much day sleep? E.g. when he gets 3hrs of sleep total for AM and PM naps, would a 3rd nap steal from night sleep; or might the sleep begets sleep rule apply?

It is like a rubix cube... I fix his naps, he sleeps thru the night... and wouldn't you know, his wake up is screwy.

[mom2william]

Hi Corrina,

Sorry for my late reply as to our schedule and hope it's OK to discuss on this long post!  Here's our schedule:

5:20-5:45am Wake up
I usually have been ignoring him until about 6:30am and then get him.  He's not crying just talking and moving about in the crib. 
6:30am BF
7:45am Breakfast
9:00-9:30am Nap #1- usually 1-1.5hrs. (the time of this nap can vary greatly.  I try to keep him up for about 3 hours from wake up.  He's SO hard to read.  He rarely shows tired signs these days)  Also, this nap has some days been as late as 10:00 if he for some ODD reason sleeps later.
10:30-11:30 Awake (again it varies)
12:30 Lunch
2:00 BF
2:00-2:30 Nap #2 -Sometimes is a short one like 45 min. but lately been at least an hour.  NEVER is it 2 hours or even an hour and a half is a rarity.  I think this nap should be longer but it just isn't.  I have been toying with the idea of wake to sleep but I digress! 
3:30-4:15 Awake
5:15 Dinner
6:00 Bath
6:45 BF
7-7:15 Bedtime

Today he was up at like 5:25am.  I have only once tried to go in and breastfeed him to see if he'll go back to sleep and it was unsuccessful.  So today I thought I'd try it again although I really don't want this to become a habit because I would like to wean in a couple of months.  I breastfed only on one side and put him back in the crib.  I think he went back to sleep after about 15-20 min.  I was so tired myself that I kind of dozed and didn't hear crying.  I went in his room at 6:45am and he was asleep.  He woke at 7:00am so I got him and nursed him on the other side.  He was falling asleep after nursing!!     But I got him up because I don't want him to think he can just sleep any old time and then not take a morning nap.  He then seemed OK and he I think is going to sleep now and it's 10:15am. 

I don't know if he's not getting enough day sleep, going to bed too early, not having enough awake time during the day or what the problem is.  His awake times are like this:  3/3.5/3  I struggle knowing when to put him down for naps because I'm telling you, most of the time he really doesn't act tired like he used to (ie rubbing his eyes, yawning).  I don't know if his awake times are appropriate for his age, either.  I get worried if I keep him up, say 4 hours between the AM and PM nap if he'd take that PM nap too late and not be ready for bed around 7:00-7:30pm. Some days he's getting like 12 hours total sleep (10 hrs night 2 day) which I don't know if that's quite enough.   I'm just confused, as usual!    

Thanks for any insight ladies.  This early waking is about to drive me insane!!!!

Suzanne
____________
William born 3/23/05

[~BeckyD~]

Hi ladies, well we are still there too.

Since Friday he has been going to bed earlier (6.15pm). On Saturday he woke at 5.50am, which was a good start, and better than 5am! Sunday and today he has woken at 5.15am again.
He is having a solid 11 hours at night, which is good I think, but should it be more?
I have also taken the nap advice from this post and instead of putting him to bed 2.5 hours after wake up(which is what we used to do) I have been putting him down for 1st nap at 8.45am. He then has a total of between 2-2.5 hours day sleep.
He is so tired by bedtime, but now I am thinking the only way around this is to put him down for 2nd nap as late as possible(it is currently around 2pm) and then put him to bed later, having kept the same amount of awake time from last nap(does that make sense?)I really don't know what to do next.
I stopped the dreamfeed about 6 weeks ago as it meant he never wanted his morning feed, but today he has jus guzzled down 7 oz and its only 6.10am! He does have around 25oz per day and 3 full meals, surely he not waking early from hunger?

Sorry to jump in on this post, let me know if I should start my own.
x

[Mommy of 3]

Johnosmom -

You got my attention.  I'm having the same problem with DS.  I tried earlier bedtime, but he's still waking up early.  My question is if we're on the 4 hour EASY and i extend the nap time, wouldnt that take away his nap time because feeding time is due?

7 - bottle
8 - solid
10 - 11 nap? 1 hour?
11 - bottle

Im a little curious how that EASY would go if I do this.  Suggestion?  Do I move both nap times a hour later?

[sadiebean]

Baby woke at 7:35 today -- alleluia!! for 11hrs15min of sleep (awake for an hour with sniffles btwn 2-3am).

I'm with you -- the numbers just weren't adding up for me for an earlier bedtime (the results weren't either) -- I too wonder, if they're getting 10 1/2 hrs-11hrs, how can we want more?

Decided to put him to bed at 7:30 and not get him up at 5, for five days in a row, no matter what. I know for sure that he hasn't had enough sleep, so no second guessing. Also, keeping naps at roughly the same time (btwn 9 and 10 for AM, and 1:30-2 for PM). I'm hoping to set his clock for all the other sleep times, and have his body adjust in the morning. Also reinforcing this by not getting him up (I do the same thing I now do when he wakes too early from a nap.)

This is my target schedule:
6:00 Awake – 3hrs till nap
9:00 Asleep – AM nap
10:20 Awake – 3hr20min till nap
1:40 Asleep – PM nap
3:30 Awake – 4hr till bedtime
7:30 Asleep – Bedtime


This morning was morning #3. Who knows if it's working yet, but I did enjoy getting up at 7:35!!

fingers crossed!!

[Critter]

Sadiebean,
What time do you feed solids?

[sadiebean]

I feed a bottle at about 7, 11, 3 and 7. And solids an hour after the first 3 feeds. (times vary based on when he wakes... but not that much, because I want his last bottle at 7pm, so I kind of keep on eye on that as well.)

I am with Kyan's Mom in that I have to keep an eye on his naptime when I feed him. If for some reason he'll be sleeping during his next feed, I'll push his solid meals later beforehand, to keep his belly full a little longer and prevent him from waking from hunger.

If it's really close -- say he's not ready for his PM nap till 2 -- I'll give him a bottle then, before his nap. Better to have his tummy a little full than too empty. (yesterday he woke early from his PM nap, at 3:15 -- realized he was hungry b/c I hadn't given him his bottle beforehand.)

If my target schedule becomes a reality (I can dream...) obviously he'd be sleeping at 3, so he'd have a bottle when he woke up. I'd just make sure that his lunch was closer to 12:30 for instance.

(Kyan's Mom -- I don't think EASY is so strict that you can't move feedings around a bit...I think the most important thing is that baby doesn't wake because of hunger. I might try giving him a botte at 7:30, solids at 8:30, and bottle at 11:30 when he wakes?)

[mom2william]

Hi all
We're still struggling here as well.  Last few days, he's gotten up around 5-5:30am.  I get him around 6:30 or so and nurse him in bed with DH.  He falls asleep in our bed after nursing!!  So...maybe he does need 11-12 hours??  I am so confused.   

Sadiebean, hope you can keep your set naptimes.  Ours vary quite a bit because of him waking up and sometimes wanting to take a little "catnap" after nursing and some days not.  His AM nap is anywhere from 9-10:00am and PM nap is anywhere from 2-3:00pm.  I wish I could just count on when to put him down everyday.

I don't know whether to put him to bed at 7 or 7:30pm.  I've been shooting for 7:00pm and he seems OK with this but still waking at 5:30am. 

Suzanne
____________
William born 3/23/05

[sadiebean]

5:25 this morning.
I should have known better. He slept thru last night, so that's wonderful. but how do you get a baby back to sleep after 10 solid hours? Answer: You don't.

I did manage to hold him off for a nap till now (about 8:45). we'll see how he does.

How did everyone else fair? Any new strategies??

[mom2william]

Well, this morning I heard him at 5:00am  but then he must have gone back to sleep because I heard him again at 6:00am and then nothing again 'til about 6:55am!!!!  But as you say, I just know that we'll go back to early wakings soon because the other week we had a few days of sleeping 'til after 6:00am and I thought it was ending but right back to square one this week.  That's what I mean when I say our naptimes vary so greatly because he's always waking at different times! 

Maybe daylight savings time will help out being here in the US??   

Suzanne
___________
William born 3/23/05

[sadiebean]

I'm counting on it!! (Daylight Savings)

[Johno & Aurelias Mum]

Sorry I have been MIA but I've been having trouble posting at times other than really early or really late!

The one thing that struck me is that you can get problems at the 7-8 months mark if you are still concentrating on a four hour cycle.  At this age, you need to start thinking about how you are going to end up with breakfast, lunch, tea, maybe a couple of snacks in between then morning and afternoon naps ans sleeping at night like a child rather than a baby.

Do you all have book three?  It has a good sample schedule for 6-9 months and then 9 - 12 I think.  Sometimes when you want to bring about a change you can do it by small changes to naps etc but other times (like me) you have to almost re-set the clock.  When we had these problems.  I followed the instructions on how to introduce EASY to a 9 month old (as it was at the time) and started from scratch.  It was hard because instead of looking at cues, I was looking at the clock but only for three days and then we were set on the new routine.

I know Corrina tried something similar lately and stuck in an extra catnap to get a later morning wake one day so she could extend that first A time.  So sometimes you need to do a one off to get to where you want.

HTH

[sadiebean]

Is that the BW for Toddlers you're referring to?
Never occurred to me to read it now, or that I'd need to move from 4hrs! Makes so much sense. I'll get my hands on it ASAP.

Meantime, I'm having a bit of luck with wake to sleep. Past couple days did it at 4:15am, and he slept till 6:30am 
Answers my question as to whether 10hrs was really all he needed (answer: nope! more like 11hr30min!)

Though... how long should I plan to do wake to sleep? I have to feed him tonight at 4am (procedure in the morning w/anesthesia, so I need to get a feed in before the fast starts). But after that -- a couple more nights? I don't want to create a new habit... especially for a little boy who swiftly learns new props!

[Gage and Sophie's Mom]

Hi johnosmum! I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit more about 7-8 mth transition into 3 meals +snacks. I have the book and like sadiebean I didnt think I needed to read it just yet, so I lent it to a friend. I did get it back and trying to read it as fast as I can, but I wonder if you could tell me about this is a little more (generally) until I get there. Gage and I have just transitioned to a 4 hr EASY and if we need to make more changes than I want to just keep going rather get too comfortable. thanks in advance

[sadiebean]

Now I'm thinking it's the BW Answers All Your Questions -- but I can't find any in-depth discussion or an example of a 9-12 mth schedule. So any wisdom would be helpful ; )

Luca is on the EAEASY that Tracy refers to -- is the major gist of the shift? (formula then solids x3, then formula before bed).