4 month old with sudden night wakings---hunger

[TiffanyNoel]

My son just turned 4 months on monday and has pretty much set himself on the easy schedule from birth with a few adjustments with my help. At 3 1/2 months he started waking at 4:30 am. This shocked me as he had been sleeping until 7 each morning. I assumed he was having some sort of a growth spurt and fed him---he took a full feed. I put him back in his crib and he went right to sleep until 7. I fed him according to the growth spurt feeding schedule the next two days and he continued to wake up somewhere between 4:30 and 5:30. I continued to feed him, knowing he was hungry. Once I could tell he was over the growth spurt(during daytime feedings) we began working our way to the 4/4. Everything was perfect except he was still waking in the night hungry and taking full feeds. after the growth spurt his night waking would happen usually at 5:30, then 5, then 4:30, then 4---stayed there a couple of nights and then went to 3 and then 4 and now 3:30.. I've always done the DF, I've tried to cluster feed, I've tried to take him back to 3 1/2 hr. daytime feeds, i've tried the wake to sleep, i've tried pu/pd.  for up to an hour, my husband has tried pu/pd thinking maybe my son could smell my milk, but to no avail. He absolutely will not go back to sleep and becomes out of control with his crying (not usual for my angel/texbook baby) unless i feed him. He has now started waking between 6 and 6:30am---not hungry, but done sleeping. I've also tried to get him to go back to sleep at this time with all the above ways(not feeding), but he simply cannot go back to sleep I normally simply have to lay him down with his paci---which he spits out in the first 2 minutes to exchange for his thumb---for all naps and bedtimes. He started to have  a tooth poking through about a week ago and tho he doesn't seem to be in pain, his alone time attention span is not as long during activity time and daytime nursing he takes in the minimum feed. he has started to wake during morning and evening(catnap) nap times, seemingly in pain because he's gnawing on his fingers or the hard part of his paci. if i give him some homeopathic tablets he calms right down and goes back to sleep, but can wake at 20 minute intervals until i finally get him up a the end of nap time. He's also started a high pitched squeal in the last 2 days that I'm not sure if it's just a new sound or if it's related to his teething.He seems to be just playing and making the noise and then start to get mad.  He also hasn't taken a full BM for 2 1/2 weeks, but my Dr. isn't too concerned and just today told me to go get some suppositories. He's hasn't seemed uncomfortable from this, just terrible smelling gas, but nothing he seems to be in pain from.  I just realized that he's on a 4/4 around the clock if he's waking at around 3 or 3:30. I breastfeed and this am I tried to cut him a little short on the feed to try and reduce the ounces he's taking at night in order to regain them during the day, but he cried until i topped him off. He's been a very efficient eater since day 1 and since about 3.5 months has been taking 10 minutes to eat. Now, in the last week if i wait the absolute full four hrs---even if he's hungry before--- he will eat anywhere from 15-25 minutes. He still only eats from one side each feed. He is not on any solids.  I hope you can help me out!

 His schedule

Wake up: 6-7 am
E: 7am
A- 7- 8:45 or 9am
S-9-11(He's been waking up 45 mintues into nap and trying to go back asleep until nap time is over and I get him up.)
E- 11am(hungry at 10:45)
A- 11-1
S- 1-3
E- 3pm(hungry at 2:30---If I feed him earlier than 4 hours though, he doesn't take a full feed)
A- 3-5
S- 5-6
A-6-7
E- 7pm
S- 7:30 or 8
DF- 9(I've tried to cluster feed the last couple of nights---doesn't seem to make a difference)
DF-11
E-Anywhere between 3 and 4 now

How old is your child?
What’s his/her daily routine?
What’s nap routine?
How long are naps?
What's bedtime routine? Time?
Do you bottle or breastfed??
How much? or how long?
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
How many wakes per night?
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up?
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?
What have you tried to settle??
What do you do for A time and how long is it?
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
Do they have a prop? If so what is it?
Do they have a lovie?

[Gina(formerly sydnimom)]

Hi!

I'm having the same exact problem.  My son turned 4 months on Tuesday and this started Wednesday night. He used to sleep from 7 - 6 but now the nightwakings are very sporadic. He seems very hungry when he wakes too.  His daytime sleep has been poor for the past 2 days as well.

I'll be watching this post to see what advice you get.

What are you thinking about doing?? I think I'm going to move him to 4 hours. How about you??

[TiffanyNoel]

well, jericho slept through the night last night. His first nap of the day was 2 hrs., the 2nd 45 min, and the 3rd and hour. He fell asleep at 7 and then went and spent the evening with Gramps and Gram and I was told woke up once(which he hasn't done once he's down for the evening) and then went back to sleep around a 1/2 hr. later. His feeding times were at 3am, 7am, 11(took a short feed), 2:30(fed for 1/2 hr.), 6:15(med. feed) and 10:45(1/2 DF). And he woke up at 6 this am and promptly fell asleep til 8. I'm going to continue the 4 hr feeds(if he can make it) and try to get him to nap 5 hrs. a day so that he will go down a little later---more around 8 and see if that helps. Let me know if you figure anything else out!

Tiffany

[Liam's Mama]

Hello! I'm gonna try to help out but I'm not sure if my info will help!!
Just a few things... First I wanted to say that my lo also started waking in the night (more than once) around 4 months. From what I have heard and from what some of the wonderful ladies on this site have told me it is quite common at 4 mths. My lo would go between sleeping horribly either at night or during the day and seemed to smooth out (knock on wood) in his 5th month. Also I believe that it is normal for your lo to still be taking a feeding or two at night although I may be mistaken. Another thing is that it sometimes takes a long time for a certain method to work. We had to work at shush and pat for a couple weeks before the time  putting him down got shorter and shorter. We still have to work to get him to sleep sometimes, I don't think any method on this site is instant but they really do work if you take the time. I know that doesn't help but at least you know you aren't the only one.   

One of the things that I noticed was that my lo woke up more with a dream feed than when he didn't have it. not sure why it seems to work great for some babies. I also clusterfed but I would cluster feed at 6:00pm and then at 8:00pm (before bed time - so not to wake him) He did still wake up once a night for a feed but it was usually between 4 - 5am. Mind you my lo has only started sleeping through the night the last few weeks. I know that many mums, even at 6 months struggle to get their lo's to sleep through the night. My lo also went through an early morning stage where he would get up between 6 - 6:30 and sometimes still does.. I can't comment there as I just got up with him until he learned to sleep longer. 

My lo is 6 mths old, he is breast fed (just started getting cereals within the last week) he eats really quickly always has so he only takes about 10mins and hes done; He has just started sleeping through the night but sometimes has one wake; I try to leave him in his crib (fussing or mantra) unless he is crying, then I go in to him; We have been lucky to find a method of settling him that works wonders for us.. we just stand beside his crib silent with one hand on his chest and the other holding his right hand beside him he falls asleep within mins usually; He has been teething since he was 3 months but not teeth have cut yet, he does roll over but doesn't in his crib.. yet!!; He did have a soother but we got rid of it just before he was 4 months old. Instead we gave him a stuffy (he also has a blanket) to go to bed. The soother was becoming a prop and we wanted to get rid of it sooner than later. we did this cold turkey. He does now suck his thumb. He is active for about 2 - 2 1/2 hours each A time generally (mind you he is 6 months); His first 2 naps are anywhere between 1 - 2 1/2 hours and his last nap is about 1/2 hour. (again this wasn't until recently that this happened! he did go through a stage where all his naps were 30 - 45 mins. we used wake to sleep which helped at first but really he just out grew them.)   

I read a posting on this site that was very helpful to me about night wakings. One mum posted that she will feed her lo if they wake in corrilation to how old they are. for example a 4 month old would be fed only if he slept for 4 hours and then woke or, a 5 month old would be fed after 5 hours (in the night only.)

 I know I didn't answer all your questions I tried to answer most... but I gotta run because lo just woke from his nap but, I will try to write more later... I'm sorry if I wasn't much help!! 

[TiffanyNoel]

thank you!! Your feedback was so encouraging! I'm just going to keep trying to keep him as close to the 4/4 as I can(even though some days are right on and others are so WAY off!) and hopefully he'll grow out of it. He finally did have a BM which has helped elongate his activity time again. I've noticed that he only naps a total of 4 hours and by the time he goes down for the night, he is so exhausted and just ready to be in bed, but that is much earlier than he used to be in bed by, so I think the 6am wakings are because of that---so he gets his full nights rest, it's just all an hour earlier than it used to be. he woke up this am at 4:30 and i went ahead and fed him because of what you said about feeding by the month. he has slept the night through the night before, so I don't think he'll wake up unless he really needs to eat. i also started to cluster feed earlier to see if that helps. One other observation I've made is that he seems to each for a much longer time if I feed him at 3 1/2 hrs than at 4. I'm still working toward 4, but just watching him carefully. We'll just keep working with it! Thank you! Let me know if you have any other comments!

[Liam's Mama]

Hi there!
Great to hear that your lo is doing better, and I'm glad I could help you out!! 
I think you are doing great! It sounds as though you are trying to be consistant (even though it can be tough some days!!) which is great and sometimes really all you can do! I think a big thing for me was to constantly remember that everyones babies are different so where mine may be on the 4 hour EASY right at 4 months there are lo's that are still on 3 1/2 hour EASY at 5 or 6 months because that is where they need to be (and Vice Versa!!) I would do exactly what you are doing, if he feeds better at 3 1/2 I would keep him there. Try again in a week or two and he may be ready to go a little longer. When you do try again, only move the length 10 - 15 Min's a time (for about 3 - 5 days a time) which might help him adjust.
For example you said that if he wakes at 7am he is usually hungry at 10:45am - try to start there when you do try again and then slowly try to push up the time to 11:00am (like every 3 - 5 days... or longer if needed). Your lo may need to go slow (increasing time in increments of only 5 or 10 Min's) and that is OK, he will get there eventually!!
Good Luck - which you don't need, you are doing great!! If you need anymore suggestions or comments feel free to PM me or post again!! 

[Mommy Mona]

I'd love advice in this area, too!  I'm having a similar problem with my 16 week old (is that considered 4 months??).   She was only waking once a night until a couple of weeks ago.  But lately, she's been nursing throughout the night, at approximately 3 or 4 hour intervals (meaning we're only getting 2-3 hours of sleep per stretch).  She's been on a 3 hour bf schedule for some time now.  She, too, is an extremely fast and efficient nurser, nursing on one side only per nursing for 5-10 minutes (10 minutes is considered a long nursing for her).  Once she comes off, she is DONE and refuses to take any more.  So I've been hesitant to start her on the 4/4 nursing schedule.  Do you recommend that I start that now? 

I can't say that I've successfully introduced the dream feed, either.  Do you suppose this will help?  She sleeps in the same room as me because we're in a one-bedroom apartment.  Is this a problem?  I also like to get out for stroller walks and lunch/errands.  I tend to get out at the same time each day, and she sleeps well in her stroller/carseat, but am I compromising her nighttime sleep?  I found in the past that she slept better on the days the we got out and had activity versus the days that we stayed in the apartment all day.

Our schedule is usually:
Wake up: 8:00 or 9:00 am (adjust entire schedule below by one hour depending on when we wake)
E: 9:00
A- 9:15-10:15
S-10:30-12:00
E- 12:00
A- 12:15-1:15
S- 1:45-3:00 (sometimes this nap is as short as 30 minutes)
E- 3:00
A- 3:15 - 4:15
S- 4:30 - 5:00
E- 5:00
A - 5:15 - 6:15
S- 6:30 - 7:00
E - 7:00
A - 7:15 -9:00, including bath
E - 9:00
S - 9:15 - 1:15am
E - 1:15
S - 2:00 - 5:00
E - 5:00
S - 6:00 - 9:00am
start the whole thing over again

How old is your child? 16 weeks tomorrow
What’s his/her daily routine? see above
What’s nap routine? nap in crib or stroller in morning, nap in carseat or stroller at lunchtime, occasional nap in stroller late afternoon, otherwise, nap in crib remainder of day and night
How long are naps? anywhere from 20 min to 1 1/2 hrs.
What's bedtime routine? Time? just started doing nighttime bath, followed by book reading, swaddling, shush-pat
Do you bottle or breastfed?? bf only
How much? or how long? 5-10 min max
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) one side only
How many wakes per night? see above
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? STARVING when waking at night.  feeds with diaper change run about an hour, without diaper change run about 40 minutes
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? mantra cry
What have you tried to settle??
What do you do for A time and how long is it?  morning activity is alone in crib with mobile or stroll in stroller, followed by cuddling and talking, mid-day activity is outtings for lunch or errands, afternoon activities are gymini mat, exersaucer, or books, nighttime activities are talking with Daddy and books, bath
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  possibly pre-teething because she's drooling alot and eating fists
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) not yet
Do they have a prop? If so what is it?  uses pacifier to fall asleep, spits out when dozing off, also use white noise from humidifier because we live in an apartment with noisy upstairs neighbor
Do they have a lovie?  not yet