Confused about Tracey's advice for 45 minute naps.

[trys7392]

I just bought Tracey's 3rd book, trying to find advice for the 45 minute nap.  I am more confused now, than before I read it!!
This is going on the 3rd week that my LO has been taking 45 minute naps...She usually takes 1 1.5 hour nap during the day.  In Tracey's book she says: If they wake up happy, let him be and if it has been more than 3 days of early rising, it is a habit..break it (Page 251).  Then on page 201, it says....if your baby is even tempered in waking hours and sleeps well at night, short naps is all they need.
 I started trying to "end the 45 minute naps".  And her sleeping at night has gotten worse.  When she was taking regular 45 minute naps, she would sleep 7-10 hours a night (not sure if this was b/c she was overtired).  When I started Wake 2 Sleep and trying to keep her asleep, she has more night wakings and sleeps only 5-6 hours.  My LO is a Touchy 11 week old.  Can any one give me clarity on what i need to be doing.  The wake to Sleep only worked for 1 day.  I go in about 20 mintues early (put my hand on her and gently pat).  She wakes up, starts kicking and stretching, then smiling...bright eyed.
Here is our schedule on a 45 minute nap day:
6:30am  Awake and ready to feed (breast feed during the day..except for dream feed)
7:00 Activity time
7:20 Winddown and sleep by about 7:30
8:15 Awake--change diaper, etc. (she is up about an hour before feeding)
9:15 Feed
9:45 A bit of awake time
10:15 wind down and nap.  (for another 45 minutes)
This is how the rest of the day goes except that she has usually 1 1.5 hour nap.
We feed at 6:00 pm-6:30, get ready for bed by bath, pj's on, etc.  I try to have her in bed by 7:30 and she sleeps for 45 minutes and up again.  We give her a bottle and back down by 9:00 and then a dreamfeed at 10:30....then she is out for the night.
Also, we have her room darkened (put aluminum foil on her windows....looks horrible...but HAD to do it!) and we have a noise machine on

This is not exact everyday....I go by her sleepy/hungry cues...So we could be off 15-30 minutes!!! She is easier to get down for naps, when i do the 45 minute nap day with her.  She is awful to put down when she gets more sleep at nap time...more frustrated and Ticked off that she is swaddled.  So this totally contradicts what Tracey says in her book.  Needless to say, I am completely confused......I know that my LO is not getting the needed amount of sleep she needs for her age!!!
Anything I am forgetting to tell?
Any advice would be appreciated!!!!

[Meg's Mom]

Hi, I am sorry this went unanswered for so long. 

I'll go get my book to try to clear up the confusion but let me first say that the 45min naps at this age is very, very common.  0-3 months babies work on organizing their night sleep. From 3-6 they work on organizing their day sleep - so this a normal developmental blip.  Not that we moms like it any - i hated every second.  My LO started the 45min nap at about 3 months.  I search high and low for information and found Tracy’s work, then the site.  By that time Megan was  well into 4mos and I moved her to 4hr EASY as Tracy recommends and the short naps got a bit better.  I then used shh/pat, pu/pd (very little) and wake to sleep techniques to get her body used to sleeping thru the 1st sleep cycle as by now it was a well ingrained habit.  We saw improvement almost immediately (although small, but it was improvement) and I was convinced Tracy’s work was a godsend. 

We worked on dc naps for 2 weeks solid and after much shh’ing and back aches we started sleeping about 1.25-1.50 for most naps. 

IME, you have 4 options (most outgrow it by 5-6mos):
1.   try to extend the short naps via wake to sleep or shh/pat
2.   just go with it and adjust EASY to fit the short naps
3.   very, very gradually extend A time - if your LO can handle it, but this is not always recommended as they get overtired so easily.
4.   wait until 4mos and extend A time when you move to 4hr EASY.

I can offer suggestions w/ any you choose if you like.  As i said, it does get better i promise.  If she took long naps before, chances are she'll start taking them again.

[Meg's Mom]

Ok, i have re-read the sections you were refering to.

In Tracey's book she says: If they wake up happy, let him be and if it has been more than 3 days of early rising, it is a habit..break it (Page 251). 

The Nap intervention Guidelines say:
-if your baby wakes up early from a nap every once and a while, and is happy, let him be.
-if he wakes up early from a nap 2 or 3 days in row, watch out. 

The difference being once in a while vs 2 or 3 days in a row.

Then on page 201, it says....if your baby is even tempered in waking hours and sleeps well at night, short naps is all they need.

Tracy states at the top of the page: "if your baby always took short naps, that might just be his biorhythm.  If his naps are short, he's not cranky during the day and he sleeps well at night then there's nothing to fix.  But if his pattern has changed, it often means he's overtired during the day."  At the bottom of the page, where you are referring to she goes on to say, if a child is out of forts after a nap and his night sleep is fitful or interrupted his short naps are a problem.

The difference being always took short naps vs. his pattern has changed. 

Does that help clear it up?

Personally, i didn't feel that Tracy covers this HUGE nap issue in her last book very well.  I learned most of what helped me by reading posts in the BW nap forum and support from moms who have gone thur it before me.

HTH!

[newmommyl]

hi i hope you don't mind if i jump in but i am struggling w/ short naps as well.  my 11 wk old does 30 min like clockwork...occassionally she'll put herself back to sleep once a day and go another 30 min but her 2 morning naps are always 30 min...she's content for the majority of the day and sleeps fairly well at night.  should i not stress about this (am worried that she is sleep deprived)  like you said 0-3 months is learning nighttime sleep...3-6 they sort out daytime.  is it a developmental thing?  i guess i'll have to wait and see but i'm just wondering how much i need to worry now about the 30 min nap habit?  She commonly gets fussy btwn 6-7 and can be fussy to put down at bedtime (crying a lot). any reassurance or advice would be great.  Thanks

[Meg's Mom]

Don't appologise for posting, we are all here to help one another - and the more the merrier!

Before i can answer if it developmental, i need a bit more info
- has she always done the short naps?
- what is her A times (what does her day look like)?

other tips would be:
swaddle, swaddle, swaddle (if you don't already)
ensure they are falling asleep w/o props (swing, paci, boob, rocking, etc)
dark room, very very dark
watch what happens at the 30min or 40min mark when they wake, is the jolt or just eyes pop open
use white noise

Once you answer the above i can try to offer some more info. 

[newmommyl]

thanks!!!!!  she has been doing these short naps for about 4 weeks.  Prior to that she slept for much longer periods of time in mommy's arms!  so we've made progress in 2 areas.  #1 napping in the crib and #2 being able to lay her down fairly awake and w/ lilttle wind down time.  To wind her down i use a paci and rock her for minutes. She falls asleep very easily and is sound asleep for that 30 min.  She is swaddled and good b/c she is a wiggly, wiggly worm!  I try to follow EASY as best i can.  A typical day: 
e at 7
a until 8ish (typically an hour every feed cycle)
s 8ish to 830ish!  which leaves another 1.5 hours to the next feeding!
the rest of the day follows the same order w/ a feed every 3 hours.  the only variation is after her 1:00ish feed she'll sleep for up to 1.5 hrs and we've started a catnap at 5ish. but more often than not she ends up getting up from a nap w/ up to an hour before the next feed thus getting even more tired right?  someone suggested to me today skipping the morning nap and then putting her down right or shortly after her 2nd bottle of the day to see if maybe she'll do a longer nap then.  what do you think of this?

At the 30 min mark her eyes pop right open!!!! do you know why this is???   i try to give her up to 20/30 min to resettle herself but if she does not i get her up.  I have tried extending but it just doesn't work.  she may doze for a few min but she jolts and wakes up again.  even in the swaddle she is very very fidgety once she wakes up which i'm assuming is only waking her up more. 

[nial]

I have the same problem with the 45 min naps. My LO is now 18 weeks old and she has been doing them for 4-5 weeks and they are slowly getting shorter!! The swaddling I am confused about as it is recommended that by this age they should be half swaddled or one arm out so they can suck their hand. I have tried putting the dummy about 5mins before wake up time but this is now varying between 30-40 mins and I often miss it. I have also tried the pram and kept walking the whole time, hoping the rocking would resettle (used to work until 13 weeks old). I have also let her cry on and off for 10 mins but to no avail...

[Meg's Mom]

Newmommyl - it sounds developmental to me, i would ride it out until she is almost 4mos and then start slowly, very slowly transitioning her to 4hr EASY the longer A times may help sort it out.

someone suggested to me today skipping the morning nap and then putting her down right or shortly after her 2nd bottle of the day to see if maybe she'll do a longer nap then.  what do you think of this?

That would mean she was up for 3hrs!  and I would guess you will end up an overtire baby on your hands who won't sleep at all.  Sleep begets sleep.

She pops her eyes open as she can't move from one sleep cycle to the next.  She sounds like a sprited LO, if she is they typically have nap troubles and you r best to deal w/ them by shorter A times vs longer.

Nial - What does her typical day look like?  Is she on 4hr EASY?  I swaddled my LO until she was 7mos cuz she never figured out that she could suck her hand, never did.  My LO also never slept more then 35 min in the car or pram - i could set my timer by her.  Post her routine and we will see if anyone has ideas. 

PS: You may notice i split the post, i was getting confused - happens easliy so hopefully i didn't offend anyone 

[nial]

Dear Megs Mum,
no thank you for the split- easier to read both.
Typical day look like - Is she on 4hr EASY. She was on a 3.5 to  3.75 (!) EASY until last week when I started spiltting her feeds more to increase my supply as she was waking twice a night and feeding heaps...so I tired to feed her at about 3.5hrs after the last and top up naps (now just for the lunch time nap). It seemed to work as I fed her at 10pm then again at 4am for until Tues; she now wakes at 130ish am again as for the last 3 nights!
At present: E - 7ish, A-until 8.30 S-8.45am (45min nap in a dark pram) Y- walk; E-10.30 or 10.45 A-until 11.30 S-11.30ish (after wind down time). Just starting to sleep for 1 1/2 hrs as of 4 days ago (was 45 min nap and a fight to go back for another 45min); E- between 1.30-2pm, A- until 3.15 S-3.30 for 30 to 45mins (pram again); E- split around bath: 5.00 and 6. A-bath, quiet time pre bed S- between 6 and 6.30 depending on what time her afternoon nap ended (or stays awake with dummy in until 6.45pm). Dream feed between 10 - 11pm (altering slightly to see if one will make her sleep longer!); wakes at 1.30ish (settles with dummy immediately; i was feeding but stopped when i reintroduced dream feed last week again); wakes at 4ish to eat. Sleeps until 6.45 - 7am.


 I swaddled my LO until she was 7mos cuz she never figured out that she could suck her hand, never did.  My LO also never slept more then 35 min in the car or pram - i could set my timer by her.  Post her routine and we will see if anyone has ideas.  I will go back to tight swaddling tonight after the dream feed to see if that helps; and maybe for the day naps in the pram (she is lightly swaddled with arms up for Lunchtime sleep)

any more advice would be very much appreciated

[Meg's Mom]

Nial - I noticed 2 thing w/ your routine
1) you say she started sleeping 1.5hr for her 2nd nap of the day.  From looking at what you posted her A times just before that that nap is 2.0-2.15hrs.  But the other part of her day the A time is less then that (and you are getting the short naps).  I would recommend your gradually increase her A times across the entire day to 2.0hr or 2hr 15min and see if you can get her to something like this:

E-7:00 AM      
S-9:00 AM -10:30 AM
      
E- 11:00 AM      
S-12:30 PM-2:00 PM (or even 2.30 ...we can always wish)!
      
E-3:00 PM      
S-4:00 PM-4:45 PM

E-6:00 PM      
S-6:45 PM

2) My LO would never sleep more then 35min (exactly) in the car or stroller, maybe because she is in the stroller she can't sleep longer...too much to hear, the motion, etc.  All babies wake after the 45min mark (1 sleep cycle), maybe if she is tired enough (and should be w/ the longer A times as explained above) and she is in her dark crib ....she will go back to sleep for that second sleep cycle (eg: the entire 1 1/2).  KWIM?

HTH, let me know if you have any questions.

[nial]

Dear meg's mom,
thank you for the advice...will definitely try to keep her up. However, she has her first BIG BAD head cold and cannot stay awake for longer than 11/2 at the moment; is feeding and sleeping poorly and has difficulty breathing; is battling through but grizzley...will get her right first and then increase A time. I forgot to mention, i have tried the cot for the all naps and the 45 minute wake up still appears even with blackout blinds etc. will let you know.

[Meg's Mom]

Definately wait until she is well to do any sleep training, Tracy always said medical issues first...sleep training second.

I hope she feels better soon!