please help - this is breaking my hreart

[kriskiss]

Hi everyone hope you have some advice for me........

My second boy is 14 weeks old and for the last week now has completely refused my breast.  as a result he is now fed formula all day and now overnight too.  I have been pumping 3 times a day every day at the same time and taking fenugreek to try and increase my supply and give him my milk from a bottle.  To start with I was only getting 4oz over the whole day (I used to get 6oz in one go) and this has been slowly decreasing.  Today I have only managed to pump 2oz.

This happened 5 weeks ago too but he only refused the breast for 4 days and with the same amount of pumping and fenugreek I magaed to get him back.  My let down is so slow and he would get really mad with it.  He will not even attempt to latch on now.

I have accepted that he prefers the bottle.  I would however be happier if 1 or 2 of his feeds were breast milk.  What else can I do to pump more milk?  I have an 18month old too so time is pretty difficult but I've really been trying hard.

I fed my first for 1 year, he was obsessed with it and refused a bottle and only stopped as my supply vanished once becoming pregnant and there's no way I am again now!!  I can't understand why my milk is non existant and it's really getting me down.  Strange 'cause wih my first I sometimes used to wish he would leave me alone now and then and take a bottle...amazing how different they are.  I just really want to continue doing the best for my baby.

Thanks for any help or comforting thoughts xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[MPalmer]

Hello~

I am by far no expert...but after BF'ing for 7 months, I think I've learned a couple things! ha ha

First, I have noticed that if I'm stressed, that really decreases my supply.  I once worked for a month to get my supply back and tried everything...but once I finally relaxed, it came back.  I'm sure trying to relax with a new baby & toddler is impossible...but really...try to just sit down as much as you can to give your body a break during the day.

Of course, keep trying to get him to latch on because his sucking is the strongest cue to your brain for letdown and to make more milk.   I know it's REALLY frustrating, but even if you just try for a few minutes before each bottle feeding that could help.  I've read that your brain memorizes your babies sucking pattern, so doing extra pumpings to increase your milk supply might not send the best message to your brain to make more.   Pumping extra does work for some, but it didn't for me.   If you think it is working for you though...you could try getting a insert for your pump flange (the part that is in contact w/ your nipple) for extra stimulation.  http://www.breastfeedingworld.com might sell your pump's brand.

Also, make sure you're eating enough carbs, fat, & protien and drinking more, more, more water!   My friend said she started drinking a gallon of water a day, eating better, stopped stressing, and her milk came back.

As far as a slow letdown...the only thing that helped me is before a feeding to take 5-10 minutes to relax and clear my mind, yet thinking about feeding the baby.  Then in a quiet room, after he latches on, close your eyes and breath deeply and just focus focus focus on a letdown.  Keep your muscles relaxed and not tense.   I KNOW it's hard not to tense up when the baby's coming un-latched...but even if he suckes for a little bit, stops, then a little more, stops, then a little more...that could trigger a letdown.

And....my lactation consultant suggested not going too long between feedings so that he's not so mad when it's finally time to eat.  Try a tad sooner to see if he's more calm. 

Hopefully that helps!   If you BF your 1st for a year you probably knew most of that, but if not...I hope it works.

Also,

[jules_is_cute]

I've read it's not uncommon for babies to go on brief nursing strikes...during that time if possible NO BOTTLES, I don't know if you are working.  Keep pumping at normal feed times after you've offered the breast and he refuses.  But if you give him the bottle, you are making the situation worse. 
Try getting "the nursing mother companion" book.  It's quite good.  It's helped me a ton.  Also NO FREAKIN' FORMULA!!  WHAT EVER YOU SUPPLEMENT IN EITHER FORMULA OR SOLIDS YOU LOSE IN BREASTMILK.  I know it's hard with a toddler, actually I don't know HOW hard it is I can only imagine.  Try pumping at night too.  Also don't fret over how much you get when you pump.  1) babies get more than you can pump because they are better at manipulating and stimulating the nipple to get a let down.  2) Pumping is a skill that requires you to RELAX. 

Also what was his first mode of eating?  Breast, bottle or both.  Babies will always take to the mode they started with.  He is just liking the bottle because he doesn't have to work as hard to get the milk.  Don't worry, he'll take your boob again if it's his only option.

For a slow letdown try pumping a bit first to stimulate a let down, then coat your nipple in the little bit of milk (less than an oz so your babe doesn't lose out) that you got out and offer him your breast...it may take a few times but he'll latch on...just be patient.  Also leave an oz or 2 in the fridge to take from so that you can coat your nipple in milk each time you feed to make it more appealing to him.
   
Also it sounds like you are already using the nursing mothers tea--that stuff worked too well for me and I had to stop drinking it as it was making me over produce and it gave my lo a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, because I was so bovine    So keep using that too.

And MPlamer is right, relax!!  Have a beer or glass of wine before or as you are nursing to help relax you.  Also it may sound weird but try nursing in a nice warm bath with your little one.  fill the tub up deep and make it as warm as you feel you lo can stand.  hold him close and use a suppot cushion for you lowback if you need.  It's actually one of the more intimate moments I've shared with Jules.  We nurse this way when bedtime has been pushed back too late so as to avoid skipping her bath and messing up her bedtime ritual. 

GOOD LUCK!!  DON'T QUIT!!!   {{{{MASSIVE HUGS}}}  Remember babies don't have the same emotions as adults, he's not rejecting you, he just likes the bottle cause it's easy.   He love you more than anyone else, you are his mommy.   

~Patty   

[MPalmer]

Great Advice Patty!!  I never thought to do the feeding in the bath...what a great idea.  I've often toyed with the idea of skipping the bath if we're running behind...but didn't want to mess w/ our night-time ritual!

Michele

[jules_is_cute]

thanks Michelle, it just seemed so natural.   

[Petunia]

Darlin' I really think you would benefit from a professional's assistance in this area.  You have listed several difficult obstacles that you are trying to overcome all at the same time - this would be confusing and difficult for a pro.  Call one of the breastfeeding helplines (there are stickies in the breastfeeding forum) or call your nearest lactation consult (use a phone book or the internet).  Keep talking to them (or keep making phone calls if you need to) until you've covered all the bases and have a clear plan of attack.  Having a lactation consultant by your side for the next several weeks while you get back on track would be the best.  Do it now.  Do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars - Call! 

No really...I mean it...you could use the help and support!

[CaedensMama]

I would echo the let the baby nurse if you really want to continue the breast feeding. If you want to switch to formula completly the bottles are fine, but for increasing supply offering the breast often and letting him suck on it is the best way.
I have more to say but no time - I'll check back in the morning -
Also - do you have LaLeche League in your area, they are awesome too!

[daisymelan]

I think you have been offered some great advice.

The only thing I would like to add is that I think you should try to increase the number of times you pump in a day.  3 times may not be enough to sustain a supply.  Some moms will lose their supply if they are actually nursing 3 times a day, but then again, some moms don't. 

I hope you find success.

Good luck and hugs

[CaedensMama]

You mentioned he will not even latch on now -
If you continually try offering the breast and maybe not the bottle for a little past his normal feed times maybe he will try. They also have these appartatus things you can wear and put formula or EBM in and it supplements them while they are nursing so they are getting good amounts and your breasts are getting his sucking which will in turn produce more milk. I have even heard of mothers who adopt babies use this method and be able to completly nuse their babies they didn't give birth too.

Let us know how you are doing!

[kriskiss]

tHANKS SO MUCH EVERYONE, ALL GREAT AND RASSURING ADVICE.

NOT HAD A CHANCE TO DO MUCH TODAY BUT AM DEFINATELY GOING TO LOOK FOR A LACTATION ADVISOR OR SOMEONE SIMILAR TO SEE IF THAT HELPS.  PART OF ME FEELS THAT I'VE DONE WELL AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT I'VE BEEN BREAST FEEDING FOR  A TOTAL OF 19  MONTHS NOW WITH BOTH BABES WITH ONLY A 3 MONTH BREAK!

I'VE OFFERED THE BREAST AT EACH FEED TODAY BUT HE GOES DAFT AND I DONT WANT TO PUSH IT AS THAT WOULD SURELY MAKE THINGS WORSE.  HE'S ALWAYS BEEN UNINTERESTED IN THE BREAST FROM THE START AND IT'S BEEN HARD GOING.  I'VE GOT MY 2OZ TO GIVE HIM TONIGHT BETTER THAN NOTHING I SUPPOSE.

I'M REASSURED TO KNOW YOU'RE ALL THERE FOR SUPPORT AND I SHALL PERSERVERE AND LET YOU KNOW IF I GET ANYWHERE.

MANY, MANY THANKS XXXXX

[gena]

Good Afternoon Wonderful-
A friend of mine used to teach breastfeeding classes and was a lactation consultant so i shared your post with her.  He is what her reply was to my email; Liquid Chlorophyll from Nature's Sunshine.  They carry it at Whole Foods and most any healthfood store, but not at GNC.  You add just a couple of tablespoons to a glass of ice water to make a sort of bright green mint tea.  It may even tint your breastmilk slightly pale green, but it has all the good nutrients in it that "green leafys" have in them.
 
I have not tried this myself but plan to buy some so when i return to work and keep pumping my supply will stay the same.  I hope this is helpful.  Please let us know how we can support you!!!

you rock!!

[jules_is_cute]

I'm curious does it help increase your supply, make the milk more yummy or healthy for baby?  all of the above?

[gena]

According to my friend it is known to increase supply in some women and sometimes double. Her reasoning was that it gives you the nutriets in the green leafy foods that i know i dont get enough of.  She says she has seen success with almost all of those she knows who has used it.  so with all those nutriets i am sure it is good for mama too.  I will ask her more so i can post what i find later.  I hope all are doing well.