SUPPORT THREAD FOR MUMS WHO CHOSE TO BREASTFEED & FORMULA FEED

[*Mona*]

Tennille, sorry I can't help you my dd uses her paci at naps/night only and lately she's started refusing it lol 

anyway, I guess my dd's night wakings are definitely developmental: today she woke up 4:20 am and just kept on rolling in her crib talking to herself but not calling us at all... for a while she's been mastering rolling back to front to the left and now it's to the right that she wants to practice all the time... so nothing to do with eating I suppose. which is good bustill, when she sees a bottle she gets all happy, and when she sees mommy's boob... well, at least it's good that at night and in the morning she has no choice and takes the boob 

thank you for your help and suggestions
Monika

[Samuel's mum]

Hi Keira's mummy

My question is... is she actually getting hungry during the day and that's why she wants the dummy all day? Am I confusing her signals? This morning she fed on both breasts rather than just one and has now been asleep for almost 1.25 hours whereas most day naps I'm lucky to get 40 minutes from her.

It might well be that she is getting ready to move to 2 breasts which isn't uncommon and isn't a reflection on you having supply problems. (In her first book, Tracy says it happens for many people when their baby reaches about 12lbs but it can happen before or after.) Yes, some people continue with single-sided feeding for ages but some also begin with double sided and never think anything of it (the La Leche League is usually a fan of double-sided feeding from the beginning). What needs to be remembered is that if both breasts are 'finished' and your baby still needs more (a worry for many - it's rare- but might happen during a growth spurt for instance). Then you can always go back to the first one again and there will be a new letdown (not with much foremilk but slow rich hindmilk).

And I really wouldn't go by the 'feeling full' thing. Honestly. When breastfeeding is getting established your breasts are full of extra blood and lymph fluid (it's only partly to do with milk). After a few weeks the breasts 'settle down' into milk production and this fullness lessens. Many people panic at this point (and panic if they've stopped leaking which often happens around the same time) but it a natural stage. You are bound to feel engorged in the morning after such a long interval but I would not worry about not feeling full during the day.

On the question of the dummy in all honesty a baby's sucking reflex is closely tied up with their hunger signs and it is sometimes possible for a young baby to take a dummy and stretch to the next feed when it might be a good idea to offer the breast (good for your supply and for her). The dummy is a useful tool especially at night but it can sometimes prevent your reading your baby's language. I would say as a rough guide - with her history - I would expect her to be feeding every 2.5-3 hours during the day. If she's going a lot longer than 3 hours I would be tempted to offer the breast. It would depend on things like her weight gain/ current weight.

HTH

[staceyr]

Keira's mummy...  I have done 2 breasts since my little girl was born (3 weeks early at 5lbs. lucky cause any less lbs and she too would have to stay at the hospital.  and there is another letdown on the 1st breast if she still needed more.  I just let her suck it all down as much as she could whenever she could (I'm paying the price for this now though as she has no feeding schedule whatsoever).  they did let me take her home but her blood sugar level was typically low at the hospital.  this drove me absolutly bonkers when I took her home because I was always worried at every little shake that she was having sugar level problems.  do a yield test (pump and add 1-2 oz of what ur getting and that's about what she's eating.)  2.  my md always reassured me that if she is having wet/dirty diapers/gaining weight she is eating enough.  3.  my tiny tyke always wanted to bf and suckle it seemed every moment of the day, which also drove me a bit bonkers.  I wasn't smart back then so I never introduced a paci/bottle and now (if u read on we have huge issues with her taking the bottle)  however I know that if she sucked on my finger happily it was a sucking reflex.  If the finger didn't help to calm her down I know she was hungry.  it probably is the same with what she's sucking now.  It is a bit emotionally unnerving when you bring your tiny tyke home from the hospital with low sugar levels...  it's only been the last month or so that this fear has disapeared (when she went over the 12lb mark and turned 4+ months)...


ok. onto my tiny tyke bottle refuser.  My dd absolutely  positively refuses anything coming out of a bottle.  I have been trying off and on for the last several months (she is now 6 months old).  It has come down to utilizing the idea from the solves ur problem book about stopping bf for 2-3 days and only give her the bottle.  I'm working full time and my nanny (her cousin) can't use a finger feeder to her breast anymore... she's getting sore and bummed out that she is bf and she isn't even expressing milk and not her baby!!!  (she uses a finger feeder to her breast and my dd feeds as if it's me using ebm)  bless her wonderful little heart to do it in the first place.  anyway, it has been HELL.  dd is the second most stubborn person I know (luckily I'm the first).  after day 2 she took the bottle (yeah!!) ate 8-10oz while I was at work and ate 3 oz from me when I got home.  started back to bf today and I have tried offering the bottle and again she's refusing it.  ugh! I hope I didn't start up with bf too early...  but pumping that often is A PAIN and very hard on a single fulltime working mom.  I so want to be able to bf and give bottle.  so, hence forth my plan is to bf today to her little heart's content, and then give her a bottle during the night.  she wakes up about every 2-3 hours to feed.  yes 6months old and still waking 2-3 times a night...  hopefully this will help her continuually get used to the bottle (even on my not working days) and help her to cut down her desire for nightwakings to be fed and upping her desire to feed more during the day.  Then when I go back to work on wednesday she will already be hip to the fact that bf only happens during the day.    the good news is that she did take the bottle we just need to keep reinforcing this behavior.  how does this plan sound?  well, if there are any addendums please let me know ... I will check later today.  I will update tomorrow how the plan worked.

[staceyr]

I'm feeling really hopeless right now about being able to breastfeed and bottle feed my dd.  I tried just giving her the bottle all last night (after 2 1/2 days of hell getting her just to take the damn thing) and she's back to refusing.  It wouldn't be such a big deal but I work evenings, I am a single mom and I have to work.  I get much more money working evenings and typically get home at 12:30 at night.  I can barely make ends meet as it is financially so I can't change the shift.  she doesn't eat as much as she should while I'm at work, even if my nanny does get her to feed using the finger feeder on her breast.  because she hasn't eaten enough while I'm at work she's still hungry when I get home and wakes up every 2-3hrs to eat.  and she does eat when she wakes up.  like a mad fiend emptying both breasts.  If she doesn't take the bottle there's no way to fill the daytime tummy and I'm stuck getting only 5 hours of sleep a night every night.  so, my options seem to me to either get 5 hours of sleep a night or completely stop breastfeeding altogether so she is on the bottle and she can fill her daytime belly.  either option is equally horrible for me.  I'm utterly deptressed about the whole situation.  I'm so angry at the lactation consultants who told me to wait till after 4-6 weeks to introduce the bottle.  I feel like they ruined my life.  I wish that I would have gotten a hold of the bw book before I had my dd and none of this would be happening.  anyway, any suggestions out there?  I just don't know what to do anymore. 

[staceyr]

youza.  what a baby can do to you.  I'm starting to feel more positive about this raising a child thing now   I met with a lactation consultant today.  She sent me home with a haberman feeder which is truly an amazing bottle.  I wish I had started her on this one!!  she is able to hold it to her mouth by herself and is very happy to play with it and gum it in her mouth.  I'm hoping that in a short time she will become comfortable enough with it to feed from.  the point is to get her to sleep 6hrs at night not take the bottle.  (don't lose the forest for the trees).  so, I will bf her during the morning /afternoon (getting about 15 oz in her hopefully) and while rudy is watching her for the 10 hours I'm gone she can feed solids to her (ebm mixed with oatmeal 2 meals, fuit or veggie 2 meals. each meal being 2-3oz.) hopefully totalling around 8-10 oz.  then when I get home I will feed her the "dream feed". which should give her enough to sleep thru the night!!  hopefully   during the day I will offer the bottle with formula until she is actually drinking from it (if ever) and then I can put ebm in it.  I will still not bf at night and only offer the bottle to keep her eating more during the day.  the lactation consultant said that it would be ok to up the solid food to 10oz at this point.  making her solids 1/3 instead of 1/4 of what she gets.  at least there is hope, where this morning I just saw endless sleepless nights.  Is it really ok for her to be taking in this much solids at this pont?

[Diegos Mama]

Wow, sounds like you've got a great plan!  Do you think she'll dislike the difference between EBM and formula?  I mixed the two for a while, slowly increasing the formula to EBM ratio and my son took to it no prob.

Keep us posted!

[*Mona*]

hi

why is it that my dd can be bottle fed everywhere, with TV on, people in the room etc. and when I breastfeed her it has to be quiet and just the two of us is it common?

another thing: I've just changed feeding pattern from BF-FF-BF-FF to BF-FF-FF-BF [hope it makes sense ] and all of a sudden she's waking up more at night [also because of being a bit overstimulated I think but not only]. tonight she got a feed at 6pm and 7 pm [had to do it in turns but al together it was a big full feed- 2 boobs] and then woke up starving at 10 pm and took another full feed. I'm getting a bit worried, she was sleeping through with just one feed at night and now she's waking almost every hour and more hungry than before...

any suggestions will be very welcome

[staceyr]

  well.  isn't it crazy as soon as you give up and create a plan for something you think will never happen...  when I met with the lactation consultant she gave me a haberman bottle.  I never got one despite the bw toting it's wonderful properties due to it's expense.  (the hospital/lactation consultant told me that if I bought one outright it would be 50.00, but since I made an outpatient appt. they could charge my insurance for it.)  anyway, yesterday she drank from it like nobody's business.  in the morning with me she drank 2 oz in her car seat (holding it herself mind you   and then she took a whopping 14 oz while I was at work with my cousin   youza. the poor girl previously must have been starving because before she would only take like 8oz from my cousin using the finger feeder.  she has been sleeping much much better!!!  oh my gosh.  I couldn't believe when she took the bottle.  I actually got teary eyed!!!  all day yesterday I wanted to go up to strangers and say... do you know my baby takes a bottle now   crazy what these little tykes can do.  now I feel comfortable implementing bw plans to correct all my other accidental parenting booboo's   thanks for the encouragement and godbless this site as I would have never ever thought to have used the haberman... it truly is a magnificent bottle!!!!

[Diegos Mama]

Hooray! So glad to hear it.  I'd give her a week or two to get settled into the new feeding plan, then move on to sleep.  This will give you some time to see if she settles into better sleep patterns herself.  I'm so very happy for you.

*HUGS*

[Diegos Mama]

Majas mom, oh jeepers, I don't know.  Maybe go back to your original feeding pattern and see what happens?  So much of babies is experimenting and tweaking things.  Then just as soon as you figure out something that works they change things up again and all over we're sitting in the dark trying to figure it out.

How have things been since you last posted?

[staceyr]

Maja's mom...  I would also encourage you to go back to your previous feeding schedule.  formula is not as fast digested in baby's tummy's as breast milk.  the formula that you have been feeding her may be sticking in her tummy longer and keeping her feeling full longer through the night.  It's tough when these tiny tykes get up so often in the night!!!  my spiritied angel was getting up 6-7 times a night before I got her feeding schedule lined up so she was filling her daytime tummy now it's down to 2-3   It's all about gettin' foods in 'em that stick through the night, unless of course going through a growth spurt or teething   anyway, good luck and hang in there!!!

[*Mona*]

Laura, Stacey,

thanks for your suggestions BUT I can't go back to that pattern as I'm going back to work next Wednesday and I won't be back for 3 pm feed and she won't take my BM from the bottle... so I don't know, maybe I should quit BFing during the day at all? not that I want to, but... that would leave us with morning BF and at least one BF at night. but I'm afraid my milk supply would drop a lot.
it's all too difficult sometimes...

and she's teething

Monika

[*Mona*]

Its better to not schedule what feed is bfeed, what is formula and then bfeed as much of the feeds as your day/life permit and then supplement the others. If you do this, your supply wont drop as much as if you only bfeed morning and night day after day after day. 

If you have a pump you can pump at work too, if its not a desirable option thats ok, plenty of moms bfeed and formula feed and do great!

I can't really pump at work... or maybe I just don't want to... I'd have to do it in a toilet and really don't feel comfortable with that. and I often spend the whole day out of office so it would be very very difficult.
but should I then stick to BFing only on the weekends? sometimes it may not be possible, but I should be spending those two days with dd, so I could do that. what do you think?

TIA
Monika

[*Mona*]

thanks for encouragement! 

[Shdef]

I did both for some time. What worked well was to stick to certain feeds... like the morning feed and the afternoon feed and the evening feed was always a a breastfeed, the DF was a bottlefeed and so on. It worked fine but on some days I breastfed a bit more frequentlt to keep the supply up. Didn't do it for long though ceuase I had a to wean to bottle all of a sudden