Can I have some help tweaking please?

[RachelC]

Ok, so since we've started walk in/ walk out, things have changed around here and I could use some help tweaking things.  Here's what the last couple of days have looked like:

Thursday:
5:42 wake and bf
6:15 begin wi/wo - never slept, but mostly content
7:10 up
8 breakfast
9:17 begin nap, wi/wo
9:58 sleep
10:40 awake and bf
12 lunch
1:03 begin nap (I began so early because she hadn't slept long for 1st nap), wi/wo
2:25 sleep
3:20 wake and bf
4:30 dinner
6 bf
6:15 begin bed, wi/wo
6:38 sleep
up twice over night, dh said only 10-15 min of wi/wo each time

Friday:
5:46 bf
6:15 wi/wo, same as Thursday
7 up
8 breakfast
9:38 begin nap, wi/wo
10:05 sleep
10:55 up and bf
12 lunch
1:39 begin nap, wi/wo
2:46 sleep... 3:10 wi/wo
3:55 up and bf
5 dinner
6:30 bf
6:45 begin bed. wi/wo
7:01 sleep... oops, 7:09 one more wi/wo
no night wakings 

Saturday, so far:
5:50 wake and happy
6:00 bf
6:20 dh tried wi/wo, but she was so awake, he sat in rocking chair and slept while she played peek-a-book with him over the crib rail
8:30 breakfast (dh was in charge... usually we're eating at 8  )
9:47 begin nap, wi/wo
9:59 sleep.....

So, after the first 2 days, I realized that she usually takes her am nap at 10, so I waited until closer to 10 today to put her down and it worked!  I also see the PM as being around 2:30, which just seems so late!

Any thoughts?  I am still bfing 4 times a day, but I can see the 10:30/11 dropping quite easily (she did fine the other day when I wasn't here).

TIA!

[HeatherC]

Rachel, my first thought was that the am nap was too early, and the pm nap too soon.  She can probably handle more A time (although you'd think with the early am waking she'd be very tired).  Are you waiting for tired signs?  Don't mean to ask an obvious question, but sometimes we try to stick to a routine that they have outgrown.  Just curious, what does she do if you don't do wi/wo?  I haven't read anything about it, so just curious as to it's effect.
Oh, and I don't think 2:30 is too late for a pm nap.  My dd, before going to 1 nap, would have a nap from like 3:30-5, then moved it to 4-5:00/5:30, until eventually phasing it out, and still went to bed at 8 pm.

[RachelC]

Thanks Heather,
I am not waiting for tired signs because for 11 months, I haven't seen them!  She's a touchy sleep baby and doesn't show warning signs, just becomes overtired and I miss the window and then I have trouble!  If I take her up when I "think" she is tired, and I am right, she will yawn during wind down.

Do you think I should push the first A time and bf before the nap... say at 10:15 and nap at 10:30?  Then bf at 3, then nap 3:30?  Unfortunately, in 2 weeks it will all be out the window b/c Paige starts preschool again and I will need to leave the house (at the latest) 11:15 to pick her up.

If I don't do wi/wo?  If I just leave?  She will scream if I don't go back in (after counting to 5).  We are weaning her from us staying in the room until she falls asleep, which usually meant staying, staring at the wall for at least 20 minutes. 

To update, the rest of yesterday:
10:53, up and bf
12 lunch
2:20 begin nap wi/wo
2:37 asleep - 3:10 wi/wo
3:37 up and bf
5 dinner
6:40 bf
7:00 begin bed. wi/wo
7:10 alseep
heard 2 peeps overnight, but didn't need to get her 

Sunday:
5:15 awake, wi/wo
5:50 bf, asleep in my arms
6:15 attempt to lay down wi/wo.... play
8 breakfast...
and here I sit, approaching 10

[KellyC]

Hi Rachel

I would try a shortened am nap so she'll be up and ready to collect Paige from pre-school and ready for a longer nap after her lunch.  You could give her a small snack before or after this nap if you think she needs it and she's not fussed about her morning bf but then I'd give her a small top-up bf before her afternoon nap (at least temporarily) to encourage her to sleep longer, with her main daytime bf being the 3pm (or whenever she wakes up) feed.  So it would look something like this;

Wake up and bf 7am (make sure you give her this to read so she wakes at the correct time  )
Breakfast 8am
Nap for 30 minutes 9.30am/10am
Snack after nap
Lunch 12pm
Top-up bf before nap
Nap 12.30pm/1pm
BF 3pm
Dinner 5pm
BF 6.40pm
Bed 7pm

Kelly x

[RachelC]

Thanks Kelly... I had a feeling that was what you were going to say 

I just tried a bf at 10 and she completly conked out on me... then I changed her diaper and she was pratically asleep on the changing table.  Then into the crib at 10:10 and she was still blabbing just a moment ago.  Wouldn't it be amazing if she fell alseep on her own right now?

About the PM nap, Jalyn hasn't slept longer than 1 hr 10 min in forever, which is why I am so hesitant about limiting the first nap, I want her to get the sleep she needs.  Should I do wi/wo to extend the nap when she wakes?  I assume the answer is yes, for consistancy, duh!

I don't know what to do about the AM... she is raring to go at 6!

[KellyC]

Thanks Kelly... I had a feeling that was what you were going to say 

I knew you were going to say that you knew I was going to say that!! 

Zander never took long naps before I limited the am nap and put him down with a really full tummy after lunch either.  It's up to you whether you take the risk - the worst that could happen is that you have a couple of bad days, send me an email telling me to keep my oar out in future and go back to your own better way!    If she' really tired at 10 then she's going to want a longer nap so I would do 30 minutes at 9.30 followed by a slightly early lunch at 11.45, a quick bf, and then down for a nap at 12.30.

I would keep doing what you're doing in the mornings, her morning bf with minimum of fuss and then walk in / walk out until wake up time.  Even if she doesn't go back to sleep she's learning that it's fine to lie and play in her crib until mummy comes and gets her and you might get to shut your eyes for a while longer too!

Kelly x

[RachelC]

Thanks!

She's still up there whining/crying/babbling... not a proper (look at me all English-like) cry yet.

and you might get to shut your eyes for a while longer too!

Just hoping perhaps I can get a shower before I take Paige to preschool 

[RachelC]

If she' really tired at 10 then she's going to want a longer nap so I would do 30 minutes at 9.30

Oh, yeah and the problem with a 9:30 nap might be that when I was trying to put her down before 10, she wouldn't fall asleep until 10 anyway    Growl!  I know this little one is a free spirit, and I, like you Kelly, and so "by the book" and "schedule oriented".

The question is... is she asleep now?  GRR 

[RachelC]

Ok, finally alseep... 50 minutes later 

[KellyC]

She's still up there whining/crying/babbling... not a proper (look at me all English-like) cry yet.

He he, I'm interested to know what you mean by looking at you all English-like 

I'm pleased you got there with the nap.  Zander is giving Jalyn a run for her money tonight.  I have no idea what's wrong with him but it's just taken 20 minutes to get him to bed (ok so not that bad but believe me it felt longer and it's very unusual!).  He was screaming full-on and I've been doing wi/wo but all of a sudden it's earily quiet and I think he must have conked out!

You could split the difference and go for a 9.45 nap 

Kelly x