HELP! Starting EASY with 8 week old- should we cluster feed?

[clarapist]

Hi- Sorry for long involved post- also need help with DS doing E-S during the day:

I had been trying a 3-ish hour eat-wake-sleep routine since about 3 weeks. He was doing well- he'd wake up 2x/night to eat, but would usually go right back to sleep. SO, I would technically not cluster feed, but usually that last night's feeding (either 10,11, or 12) would automatically be a dream feed.   I never did, however, set a "start" time for the day.  Basically, I'd let him wake me up for the 2x/night, and the 3 hour clock would start again in the morning. HAt 7 weeks, I tried staving off the late night feeding (2am) with a paci. (thinking I could train him to stop waking at that first waking.) I was logging his oz's and knew that he'd pretty much had enough.  I tried this about 3 nights in a row, and since then, it has been CHAOS. First of all, it didn't work, he still would wake up for that 2am feed. AND, since then, he's been waking up an hour after going back to sleep in the middle of the night. He ALSO started waking up after 45 minutes during am naps. 
This has also started several days of having E-S sessions and thus leading to a horrible night.
Last night, he ate at 5:00, went to sleep at 6:30.
The 8pm AND 11pm feedings were dream feeds- he never woke up.
HOWEVER, he woke at 1:30, then ate a 2 (took 2.75 oz), woke at 3:30-4:10; fed at 5:10 (2 oz), and then woke up at 6am, and was up until we started E-A-S at 7:30 (took 5 oz!). After the 10:30 feed, however, he did E-S.  After the 1:30 E he was trying to S, but we stripped him and put him in the bathtub and so he went down at 2:45.  Woke at 3:30, but I patted him to sleep. (He's sleeping now.)
I am logging his oz's- and he's getting the 'right" amount over the course of the 24 hours, but I would give my RIGHT ARM for him to drop a feed at night.
Here are my questions:
1. If he does a 45 minute nap, should I try to get him to go back to sleep? (Yesterday I took him for a walk in the stroller so he's sleep till the next E. THEN, in the pm, I held and swung him for 45 minutes till the next E)
2. What should we do when he wakes up an hour after his overnight feedings??  Rock him, pat him? 
3. (Back to my original question for the post) We've basically been trying to do EASY, but withour cluster feeding, and same wake time. Should I just do that, now, or should I do that plus cluster feed (I ask b/c the book says only to do cluster feed until 8 weeks. Wish I'd had it sooner!)
4. If he goes RIGHT back to sleep after he eats, and despite ALL attempts to wake him,  do you just let him sleep? (I did this morning, but this afternoon, we did the bath.)  If I keep him up, will this make him overtired later and not allow him to sleep?

If you're still reading, THANK YOU, and thanks in advance for responding!
Jill
Mom to Connor, 6/29/06

[LŠuren]

just to let you know I have seen this and will try and get back to you today if no one else has 

[andrea21]

Jill

I don't no if i can be any help,but I cluster feed when I was bf at 5,7,9pm and he slept Thur until 7am the next morning.
Then at 3.5months I put him onto the bottle and was worried he would wake during the night so I did a feed a 5.30 and 7.30pm and he took 8oz both feeds and still slept Thur the night until 7am.
He only ever had one hour sleep during the days but been he slept the whole night i was OK with this.

We started off on 4 hour easy,Thur the day up until the last 2 bottles when he did the cluster feed.

Hope it is some help..

Andrea...

[clarapist]

Just an update on yesterday: We did 3 hour EASY without cluster feeds yesterday. He went down at 9, and I waited till 11 (3.5 hours) till his last feed (a DF). SO, he WAKES UP at 1am- most likely with gas pains (crying, but eyes still closed, etc.) My husband took the "overnight" last night, so I went to another room to sleep.   He ended up waking up again at 2 and at 5 and took 3 oz each time!! (ARRRRGGHHHH!)  He was up at regular intervals between feeds, keeping my husband up. RATS. 
I fed at 7:30 this morning and he was EXHAUSTED by 8:30 (b/c up since 6:30!), so we got about 20 min of A time (better than nothing)
Maybe I should start decreasing his oz at night? 

I am one of those people that needs to chill out. I was getting SO upset at everything that he was doing "wrong"  (Waking after 45 min nap, etc.)  I mean REALLY crying.  I somehow came to the realization that I can only do the best I can do, and he WILL sleep longer at night at some point. (RIGHT??!)

[andrea21]

My Ds was all over the shop,had no routine nothing at all!!

When I changed over to bottle,it took a couple of days to get on 4 hr easy,then I just watched his cues,when he started to rub his eyes I put him down then worked it out from then.He was 3.5-4months old when I did that.
Once i new what he was going to do,feeding and sleeping etc,his body started to no when it was time.He is 8months old now and he is pretty much right on cue for everything.If you are busy you hear his noise and you no weather it is sleep time or not.

It is hard sometimes to relax,but the more you try to the more you might find that it will fall into place.

Hope things look up soon.

Andrea...

[Mamalou]

hi clarapist,
How are things going?  I was just reading your posts and wanted to say that I think I've read somewhere here that they hadn't realized the book said to stop cluster feeding at 8 weeks.  I was worried too, because I started EASY around 8 weeks and was cluster feeding.  And, I still do.  Have read that babies generally do this naturally to last through the night.  We're on 4 hour EASY (DS is 4 mo old) but after his catnap I feed him and then again I top off before bed (after bath) it's not 'feeding to sleep' so it's ok.  I think the cluster feeding will help your LO last through the night.

Good luck

Kristi

[LŠuren]

Hi Jill Sorry for the delay - I was on a date last night   

I am still doing 3 hour EASY, but without Cluster Feeds, and he's still waking up 2x/night AND having major trouble with staying asleep after 45 minutes of nap. (I posted that, and got some good response-- I spent all day patting though!)

What kills me is that I sometimes I have to wake him from his nap during the day-- but at night- HE wakes up 3 hours or earlier like clockwork.  I've been keeping track of oz's as well- and with the 2 night feeds he gets what he needs. Wonder if I should keep decreasing night oz?

I personally still clusterfeed DS (to a degree) until he was about 6months, because he was alwayd hungrieer in the evening. I never did a dreamfeed.

He is waking at night because he isn't getting enough milk during the day. Can you post me your 3hr EASY routine, you may need to introduce CF'ing to get in the addition bottle he seems to be missing. I never offered any more than 3 or 4oz at a night feed and by 5months he had slept through for the first time.

I am not sure what you mean by "I am logging his oz's- and he's getting the 'right" amount over the course of the 24 hours"  if you are limiting his oz's to conform to the side of the carton then I would suggest you just follow your LO, the recommendation on the side of the carton is a guideline only, Calum was alwayd WAY over this.   

Does your LO drain any of hie core day bottles? If so, increase them.

A normal 3hr EASY feed is:

7, 10, 1, 4 , 7  + DF at 10pm

If you introduced CF'ing try;  7, 10, 1, 4, 6, 8  - not sure when LO's bedtime is 

You could also introduce a dreamfeed at 10pm, however you may find that by doing both CF & DFing, he won't take a decent amount of a DF and still wake.  Remember a dreamfeed isn't for every LO and can take up to a week to see results - see bottlefeeding FAQ's for more info.

I would only decrease the night oz when you can offset this amount to his daytime feeds, as I said before follow your LO's cues, if he drains a bottle increase it by an 1oz and see how you go from there.

PLease continue waking him during the day, I know how you feel about having to wake them, I have DS transistioning to 1 nap so I need to wake him up as well, if he decides to take 2 naps.

Have you also tried wake to sleep for the 45min naps?


HTHs's

[clarapist]

Thx for the reply. By the "right amount" I mean weight x 2.5-2.7oz/day.  I do follow him.  If he's draining the bottle easily, I fill with more formula.  If he's done, he's done. He takes anywhere from 3 oz- 5.5, with an avg of about 3.5 or so.
I have been doing 3 hour EASY for awhile, but JUST started implementing a daily start time this past week. (Basically, his feeding schedule was 3 hours from the last one).  SO,  I guess I'm in an adjustment period.
In any case, I've been starting at 7:30, without cluster feeds.  We have had issues with 45 minute naps (I think he's waking up right now)-- dang it. AND, he's been waking up an hour after the last middle of the night feed, too (he has been doing 2 night feedings). Pediatrician thought it might be reflux, so he's sleeping in his carseat which is in the pack n play. 

Yesterday, he got his shots, so the day was "shot" (pun intended).  BUT, he pretty much ate at 3 hour intervals, with last one at 10:30.

THEN, he slept till 3:15!!!! (Due to the Tylenol? Probably).
So, here's my question: Last night, he got his last feed at 10:30 (took 4 oz) he ate at 3:15 (after an almost 5 hour stretch) - 3 oz, then was WIDE AWAKE till 4:15. My arm is still sore from patting. He woke again at 6:15, so I fed him (since it was 3 hours after- he took 3 oz).  I think it took some patting to go back to sleep- till about 7:00.  He woke, and then we fed again (my husband did) at 7:30 and he took 3 oz. He was very fussy this morning-- I think he had bad gas. 
He was WIDE awake till 9 (a 2 hour stretch!) and took a nap(DH put him in the swing- oh well) till 10:10, then we fed again at about 10:20 (3.75 oz).  He was tired at 11:10 or so, and went back down by 11:20 ish. It has been 1 hour and 10 minutes and he's still sleeping.  (woo hoo- that was just a scare above, he went back to sleep-- maybe being upright helps??) 

I'm planning on feeding 1:30 and then 4:30, then  bath then bed after the 7:30 feeding (that would make bedtime 8:30ish- which is what we did last night.)
I'm afraid that he might go down for his nap after 4:30, and then "dream feed" for 7:30.  He's done that before, too.  (Hence my posts in several places!!!!)

Any insight is welcome.  I am not sure how to cluster feed and include naps.  Can you include a possible scenario for me starting at 7:30am that includes cluster feeding and how naps and EAS would work?
Many thanks!
~Jill
PS- Was it a first date? How did it go?

The hardest thing is that he's waking up at night.

[LŠuren]

Hi

No it was with my husband 


Can you include a possible scenario for me starting at 7:30am that includes cluster feeding and how naps and EAS would work?

3-hour EASY:  (I have just moved the timings in the book 30mins forward)

E: 7.30 wake up and feed
A: 8.000 or 8.15 (depending on how long feed takes)
S: 9.00 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 10.30
A: 11.00 or 11.15
S: 12.00 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 1.30
A: 2.00 or 2.15
S: 3.00 (1.5hr nap)
Y: your choice
E: 4.30 feed
S: 5.30 or 6.30 or somewhere in between – catnap (approx. 40mins) to get baby through the next feed and bath
E: 7.30 (cluster feed at 7.30 and 9.30 if going through a growth spurt)
A: bath
S: 8.00 bedtime
Y: the evening is yours
E: 10 or 11pm dreamfeed


Lauren 

[clarapist]

I'm having a REALLY hard time with 45 min naps (All 3 were 45 minutes today- despite valiant efforts of patting!) 

Anyway,  What I don't get is the times for the cluster feeds-- b.c above there's a feed at 4:30 and at 7:30-- where is the cluster??  (Shouldn't it be 4:30, 6:30, and 8:30 then DF?) 
PLUS- if you have a cluster feed at 8:30, isn't this RIGHT after he went to bed- thus sort of a DF??
Sorry if I'm being thick--  I just don't get it.  Have to spell it out for me)

THX AGAIN!
Jill