low supply at night? not wanting to supplement...what to do?

[nursekat]

My LO gets VERY fussy during her last feed - she suckles fine for about 2 minutes then starts to fuss and fuss.  If I switch sides, she'll do the same - suckle for 2 mins then start fussing.  Tonight, I tried pumping and got less than ONE ounce out!  I have pumped in the am before and have gotten 2-4oz easily in 10 minutes.  I'm considering supplementing with formula JUST for the bedtime feed, but it's not sitting entirely well with me.  I've also tried pumping in the morning and giving her that bottle at night, but it's not easy, and I'm not entirely in love with pumping.    I do feel that she is wanting more, as she gets super fussy and is harder to put down in the evening than any other time of day.  She's on a 3.5hr EASY and is 4 mos old.  Any ideas?  THANKS in advance!

[First Time Mom]

Do you cluster or df? When my dd was younger and ebf I did a cluster feed and a df, it helped to fill her. Keep in mind all los go through a fussy period while feeding from time to time. There were episodes when I thought I didn't have enough supply but I kept at it, when she fussed I would try one side then the other and back to the first. Pumping is not necessarily a true indication of what you produce, I was never able to pump yet am still bfing my almost 10 mth old. By adding formula or even a bottle of ebm at a specific feed it will tell your body that you don't need to produce the milk for that time period. If you want to increase your supply for a specific feed you need to bf for that specific feed for your body to produce.

[Peek-a-boo]

I used to worry that I was having that problem.  I didn't know about BW at the time so I wasn't doing a df or anything like that.  Baby was sleeping through the night (or only having one wake up) and it seemed like my body sort of turned off milk making right around his bed time in anticipation of the night ahead with no nursing.  I found that if I pumped nightly a few hours after baby went down, after a few nights I felt like I had more milk over all, especially at bed time. 

I'm not sure if this was really scientific, but it seemed to work.  Doing a df would probably serve the same purpose.

[Samuel's mum]

Pumping is not necessarily a true indication of what you produce, I was never able to pump yet am still bfing my almost 10 mth old. By adding formula or even a bottle of ebm at a specific feed it will tell your body that you don't need to produce the milk for that time period. If you want to increase your supply for a specific feed you need to bf for that specific feed for your body to produce.

This is all excellent advice in my opinion. Pumping really can be very misleading. People often have a slower letdown in the evening - it doesn't mean the milk isn't there.

Are you eating and drinking well during the day?

It could also be that she is tired? BW babies aren't used to feeding when tired and bf is hardwork. Perhaps you could experiment with changing timing a little?

I would start with trying a few days of pumping after the bedtime feed to see if you can up your supply yourself (if you feel that is the problem - not overtiredness). Even if nothing comes out you are sending signals. Then perhaps offer some ebm from the morning after the feed (but still pump at night too).

At the end of the day the choice to use formula is of course yours. Do what feels right. You might want to check out the FAQ on benefits of exclusive breastfeeding if you haven't already.

[nursekat]

Thanks everybody!

I HAD been thinking up to this point that she was just tired, because if I burped her and held her a bit, she'd settle down, and she slept through the night fine, so I wasn't too worried, just wondering what was going on.

However, after her barely nursing last night and being fussy, I tried giving her a bottle of ebm that I had frozen...she chugged the whole thing down so we gave her some more and she chugged that too.  She slept in an hour later than normal.

I don't do a DF...she never woke up enough to eat, or woke up too much (she's spirited!), and she started sleeping through the night fine on her own so we just dropped that idea.

I know pumping isn't a true indication, but I tried it last night after she wouldn't feed just to see if it was a slow let-down problem or an actual amount problem.  I could barely get anything out, when during the am it tends to just gush out.

This morning I tried pumping right after her first feed (so we'd have more to give her tonight), when I'm still engorged from the night, and got quite a bit out, but then for her next feed she was fussy again.  So I'm wondering if I pumped too much.  Poop.    Something else might have been the problem, though, because she wouldn't take a bottle either.  I was just crying so hard, I've gotten myself all worried about this milk thing when she's been doing so well.

We have a friend that gave her los a bottle of formula at bedtime each night, so my DH is pushing for me to do that now.  I know he's just being a man and trying to "fix" the problem, but I wish he'd share my desires to exclusively bf.

I totally don't want to try formula...I REALLY like the idea of pumping at night after she feeds to try to increase my supply.  I will try that!
 

it seemed like my body sort of turned off milk making right around his bed time in anticipation of the night ahead with no nursing. 

Hmmm...I hadn't heard of this before but I kind of wonder if that is my problem.  I try to really eat and drink well, and everything seems good the rest of the day.  I do cluster feed in the evening, but she always was fussy for both feeds so I always wondered if it was tiredness but now that she chugged a bottle down I'm thinking it's supply...

[First Time Mom]

Just thought I'd mention that some ebf babies will chug a bottle regardless of hunger. Way back when my lo was very young she would scream and cry after a bf. I kept thinking I had no supply and my dh pushed for a bottle of formula. We was desperate back then and offered her formula after the bf, well she chugged it down and then proceded to cry and wake regularly after (turned out my dd wasn't hungry at all- she had a milk protein allergy). I did this a few times per week for 6 weeks before I discovered bw (and her allergy). I then read up on all the details I could find on bfing and realised I did have supply and if you ebf you always have enough for your lo's needs as long as you don't go too tight with a schedule (follow a routine but be flexible to feed on demand when they're hungry).

[RachelC]

Just thought I'd mention that some ebf babies will chug a bottle regardless of hunger.

So true!  It is so easy to get the milk from a bottle (much more work from the breast).  The sleeping an extra hour could have been a coincidence.  You could try the df again.

Listen to your heart... if you want to ebf, then leave the formula out of it.  You may also be embarking on a growth spurt which makes it even more important to not supplement, so your body adjusts to the changes

[nursekat]

Just thought I'd mention that some ebf babies will chug a bottle regardless of hunger.

Oh wow, I did not know that!  Thank you EVERYBODY, I feel much much better about this all. 

Last night went well, she did her last bf well, although a bit fussy, and we had an ebm bottle on standby, too.  She had a few sips from that after bf-ing and then was done.  Last night I really felt her fussies were from being tired and not hungry.  I think I will keep trying pumping later in the evening after her last feed to help keep my supply up in the evening...then I will also at least have some ebm on the nights when I'm worried.  I will keep telling myself that she is getting enough, tho!  Thank you!!    I can't tell you how much having your support has helped me feel "justified" in not switching to formula yet!  It's hard when your DH, your best friend, and your mother are all telling you to just give her formula!

 

One more question - how long do you recommend doing a dry pump in the evening?  When I occasionally pump in the am when I'm engorged, I pump either for 10mins or until 2oz, whichever comes first.  How long is long enough to keep them stimulated?

[RachelC]

I would suggest 15 minutes.  Glad to hear last night went well.  Keep up the great work! 

[nursekat]

Thanks!  I'll let you know how I'm doing!