Can "Schh-pat" become a prob?

[OliviaM]

Hi there,
I use the Schh-pat technique all the time with my 3 mths old son and it works wonders. But is there a possibility of LO getting used to it? When should I stop Schh-patting him - at 4 months? 6 months? 1 year?...

Also, can I Schh-pat him just to help him go to sleep (even if he is not crying)?

Many thanks
Olivia

[calebs mommy]

I would only use the shh/pat technique is your baby is crying and needs your help to get to sleep.  If he isn't crying you might want to step back or out of the room and see if he is able to go to sleep on his own.  In the beginning, it is used as a tool to help them learn to go to sleep on their own, but if you keep using it when they don't need it, then it can become a prop.  The goal is for him not to need you in order to go to sleep.  Does that make sense?

[OliviaM]

Thanks, calebs mommy. I think I've been overusing Sch-pat a little bit. Will try to use it only when LO is crying or has difficulty sleeping from now on.

[jacksmomns]

im new here and looking for support. Every day i've been reading this site for encouragment, and decidede to join to interact a bit.  I'm trying to implement easy with my 2 mo old, using sshh/pat to sleep train as he is a terrible napper.  I'm also concerned about a paci habit and is it too soon to wean? how long should it take? doesn't he need to suck? soo many questions!  Should i be using the three hour easy plan?  Some say its too soon to expect any sort of routine or scedule, is this true?  I want to start now while it would be easier sooner than later.  Please write back...confused and unsure if im on the right track.

[OliviaM]

Hi Jacksmomns,
I'm in the same boat - lots and lots of questions! My LO is 3mo and we're new to EASY, so it's a bit of a hit and miss sometimes for us.

I think we your LO being 2mo you should definitely be using 3 hr EASY or at least aiming for it. With regards to the dummy, it's OK to use it as long is your LO doesn't show signs of dependancy on it (eg wanting to suck all night or during naps). In her books, Tracy recommends to gently take it out of baby's mouth approx 5-10 min after the baby is in deep sleep if he/she doesn't spit it naturally. That is exactly what I do with my LO. I don't think we could manage without the dummy completely.

Have you had a chance to read any of Tracy's books? I read 'Secrets of BW' and 'BW Solves All Your Problems' (while I was breastfeeding as there is just no time otherwise!) - both books were a huge eye-opener for me. You will probably find answers to some of your questions as well as recommended EASY routines there.
Good luck!
Olivia

[Missy Lou]

i agree with olivia.

at 2 months, 3 hours between feedings is fine.  babies at 2 months do need to suck.  don't worry about it being a prop yet.  i don't think any age is too young (or too old) to start a routine.  LOs really need a routine i think.  it may vary a lot for a bit but LO will get used to what to expect and it will help both of you to know what to do.  a routine also helps when LO isn't feeling well.

at 2 months, the average A time is an hour 15 minutes or an hour 20 minutes.  so in that time, LO should eat, have diaper change, play and have 15-20 minutes of winddown.  if LO is up too long, he'll have a hard time settling down.  so let's make sure he's on a good routine. 

45 minutes are really common and a big pain but check out the naps board for info on how to help extend naps like wake to sleep.

does LO have trouble settling down and staying asleep?
melissa

[jacksmomns]

Thanks for your replies.  He does have a bit of a hard time settling, and definately a hard time staying down for any lenth of time.  He hasn't had a paci in days--no need to reintroduce it though right?  Routine is getting better-although hard to readjust after appt.s etc.  If we start at 7AM, do i wake him to set his "clock", or just start easy from the time he wakes?  When do people normally switch to 3 1/2 hr. easy?  Wake to sleep seems difficult and am afraid to wake him entirely I have read "Secrets of the BW", but not the "BW Solves All Your Problems"
Any other ways to extend naps, and if pat/sshh has to continue to 3 mos. do i switch to pu/pd?
                                                                Thanks Hilary

[Missy Lou]

if LO doesn't need paci, then yeah, no need for it.

is there a time LO usually wakes? 

if he's having a hard time settling down and staying down, his A time is probably off - either too long or too short.  would it help if i posted some sample routines and then we could adjust them for your LO?

i'll post a link about wake to sleep. 

you use pat/shush until 4 months and then after that, if LO is crying, you shush and if that doesn't help, you can pick up.  i'll post a link about pat/shush and pu/pd so you can get an idea.  also, the mods on the pu/pd board are awesome if you feel you have specific questions.

the right A time for your LO will help with sleeping.  but the 45 minutes are common and wake to sleep is really the best way to combat them.

let me know what you think.
melissa

[Missy Lou]

here's a link about pat/shush and pu/pd not being a prop. 

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64108.0

[Missy Lou]

here's a link about wake to sleep.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64107.0

[Missy Lou]

here's the link about pat/shush

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26671.0

Did i forget anything?
melissa

[jacksmomns]

Thanks for the quick reply!!  I was wondreing about the A times being too long or short.  But in my case i look for that first yawn or two-about an hour of A time maybe, and then go to wind down.  Was wondering if its too short.  Here is our general day-or the one i've been aiming for at least-7am up, eat, change, play. 8-815-wind down and nap(this is where he tends to go down ok most times, but is awake after 40 mins or so-i go in when he gets more upset to start pat/sshh-usually doesn't stay down again completely)10am-up, or i wake him if theres been a fluke-eat change etc. About 11-1115-go to wind down and do the nap thing all over again.  1:00pm-eat etc. 2-2:15-nap procedure again.  4:00pm eat etc.   Will try a nap again about an hour later or sometimes i take him for a walk to get out.  This time of day tends to get screwy as i'm not sure how to get the cat nap! how long should a cat nap be? 6:30/6:45-bath, lotion, bottle around 7, wind down in the chair again with lullaby, and bed.  Up in the night around 2am usually to eat.  also if he wakes more than once in the night from time to time-i feed him again-is this wrong? not sure if hungry or just waking.  Any advice is sooo appreciated, and this short nap thing is hard! I will check out your links-although i tink i've read them.  Hope this isn't too long.......Thanks a bunch!   Hilary

[jacksmomns]

oh yeah, some sample routines may help.  please tell me lo's get better at staying asleep as they mature- i've been pat/sshhing for over a week lol Hilary

[OliviaM]

I take my LO for a walk in the pram in late afternoon sometimes - to get him to catnap. He sleeps well during walks but luckily doesn't seem to get dependant on the pram. I think catnap should be 0.5-1 hour (45 min approx), definitely no longer than 1 hour. The aim is to get them through the evening feed and bath/activity.
With regards to night wakings, look for hunger signs. If there are no hunger signs or if LO only takes small amounts, then there is a good chance that this is habitual waking. Tracy suggests wake to sleep strategy to break the habit of waking up at night but I haven't tried it with my LO yet. Also, have you tried to dreamfeed at 10-11pm to try and get LO sleep through the night?

[Missy Lou]

that's what i would have said about the catnap.  it's fine to get the catnap any way you can - car, stroller, whatever because you'll eventually drop this one. 

i think it's fine and normal to feed a 2 month old twice a  night or maybe more depending on LO.  I think i was still feeding LO twice a night until maybe 12 weeks or so and then once a night for another few weeks.  i used tracy's suggestion of using the pacifier also.  give LO pacifier if they go back to sleep, they're not hungry right then.  if pacifier doesn't work, they're hungry.  if LO doesn't take pacifier, go with olivia's tip.  if LO only takes a small amount, it's a habit waking.  you can also know the waking is from habit if it's at the same time almost to the minute every night.  then you'd want to try wake to sleep for nighttime.

the 45 minute naps do get better at about 6 months or so.  but when LO doesn't nap well, the nap is only an hour instead of 45 minutes.  so naps can be a pain still but definitely not as hard as when LO is younger.  i think (at least with my LO) is the older they get, a short nap isn't as hard on LO.

let me find some routines.  LO is 2 months right?  if that's right, A time is about 1.25 hours but be sure to include the winddown in that 1.25 hours.

i'll post back with some routines.
melissa