Author Topic: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo  (Read 1679 times)

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Offline Colesmom

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okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« on: November 22, 2006, 18:14:53 pm »
Hi all,

Not sure whether to go into much background.  My little cole, 19 months old, still not sleeping through the night due to much AP by me.  For the first 13 months of his little life I worked to keep in his crib with pu/pd etc.  After starting work in May, I had no choice but to bring him onto the couch with me.  I just couldn't handle the sleep deprivation.  I have tried wi/wo (successfully) a couple of times...but a week or two later fall back into old habits.  Always the result of him having a cold, or feeling a molar come in, or knowing he's had shots or something.

For those that have successfully done wi/wo, how do you KNOW your lo isn't in pain.  I know of course that he can't have been in pain for 19 straight months.  I just can't bear the thought of doing wi/wo, letting him cry, and then maybe, just maybe he did need me (two weeks ago i was sleep training through an ear infection :()

I am just so tired.  He had his 18 months shots last Thursday (a bit late) along with the flu shot. 

Here is my question-should I go by his general demeanour during the day?  he is happy as a clam all the time.  A bit fussy when tired, but a very good eater and a smile all the time.  Am I therefore safe to assume that I can give him pain meds for teething and get on with it already?

Please please please send encouragement as I am about to LOSE IT!
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Offline Sydney

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 18:52:59 pm »
I hope I can send you some encouragement your way :-*

I started wi/wo with my 13 month old about 3 weeks ago. It has been working fairly well for us.  I go into the room, lay her back down and then count to 15.  If she is still crying, then I go in, and lay her back down. I repeat this until she goes back to sleep.  If she stops crying while I am counting, I then start the counting over, KWIM?

When I started this 3 weeks ago, dd was teething and i asked if I should wait or just go ahead because she may be teething for quite a while as she only had two teeth at the time.  I was told to just give her some pain meds about a 1/2 hour before bed and then do wi/wo.  I personally don't feel like letting dd cry for 15 seconds is doing her any harm.  I know there are some that do only 5 or 10 seconds until they go back in the room.  I guess whatever makes you most comfortable, as long as you are consistent. 

I think it may take some time as you have admitted that some AP has been going on, but I think it should work well for you in the long run.  The longest I did wi/wo with dd was for 45 minutes. 

HTH's and hang in there :-*









Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 18:57:55 pm »
Traci, don't despair, I am about to put my little darlings to bed, it should take me half an hour and I will thouroughly read through your post and see if i can help you in any way. 

Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 19:35:31 pm »
Hi Traci,

Ok, it seem sto me that you have cracked the walk in walk out and have had some success, you need to help yourself stay on track when he is ill.  I would say the worst of any illness (general illness I mean, such as cold, teething etc) probably last 2-3 days when sleep problems happen. 
As you have had some success with WIWO I would assume that when he is teething there are other symptoms too.  I used to put all Alex's sleep problems down to teeth, now I know when she is teething as she has a sore bum, red cheeks, a bit grouchy by day and having trouble sleeping at night, so I give Neurofen and she normally settles ok, but I still do walk in walk out even if she is sick.  I know I might sound harsh, but it does confuse them if we do different things for them.  This way he will know that mum will come and help him when he needs her, but he has to sleep on his own when he can. KWIM?

Remember, you are not letting him cry, no-one on this site would advise you to do that.  Let him cry for about 15-20 seconds, then go in until he stops (no eye contact needed) and leave the room, he might start crying as soon as you leave, start counting again, then go back in until he stops again and so on.  If he stops crying during the time that you are counting, do not go back in.
The most important thing with all sleep training is to be consistent, and this means even when they are sick.  Obviously tend to their needs, but there is only so much you can do and usually a little pain relief is enough for teethers.  We all need our sleep especially if we are feeling under the weather.
Good luck, I think that you will be successfull very soon as you sound positive. 

Offline Colesmom

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 19:58:52 pm »
thank you Mari and Sydney.  I think i just have to start tonight.  I want this solved by the holidays so I can relax and enjoy my time off instead of dreading each and every evening!

I will try and post my progress.  hard to get on lately...
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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 20:16:16 pm »
Hey Traci, just sending much sleep and courage vibes your way. keep at it as torturing it seems, i promise it'll be over if you're consistant. I'm sure you'll laugh about this on the holidays, i'll be praying for that!!!

Much love going your way!
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Offline Colesmom

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2006, 00:59:37 am »
Hi there, thought I'd pop on with a quick update on last night.  Good and bad news.

The good news:  Bedtime went swimmingly.  I put him down at 8:40 (about 10-20 minutes later than I'd wanted) but it only took him 5 minutes to settle down.  I kept my wi/wo intervals to about 10-20 seconds.  He was quite upset for the first 5, then when i'd wi, he'd lay down and try to sleep for a minute or so...then start up again, i'd count, then go in, he'd lay down etc etc.  he fell asleep at 9pm without me in the room!  YAY.  The key I think is when I initially put him down I hug him and wait for him to lay down.  I used to just walk out.  but now, I hold his hands, lay him down, and tell him i'm just outside his door if he needs me.  He slept until 2:45am...

The bad news: I did wi/wo for 1.5 hours after giving tylenol right away to rule out teething pain (working on 4th molar). he caught on pretty quick, and would try to go to sleep (like at bedtime) for a minute or so, then start crying again.  sometimes he'd be standing, other times just crying lying down.  Maybe I didn't give him long enough to settle.  after 1.5 hours I was losing hope, and tried holding his hand...that didn't work for 30 minutes at which point i caved and went on the couch with him because I had to get up for work in 1.5 hours :( 
So, i know he probably got the sense i was giving up, because i was going in to quickly (under 10 seconds because DH needs his sleep and i wanted to keep the house quiet). 

so, as i said, not entirely bad, but not entirely good.  on the advice of my mom's group over on the EASY board, i have given cole warnings tonight (bedtime in an hour, bedtime in 30 minutes) in hopes that he's more prepared.

speaking of which...that time is fast approaching.

wish me luck ladies!

"edit": only 10 min. tonight!  asleep by 8:45!  I'm hoping to push bedtime back to at least 8:30...as i know late nights are likely contributing to our wakeups.

ttfn
« Last Edit: November 24, 2006, 01:44:19 am by Colesmom »
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Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2006, 15:46:18 pm »
Great job with the bedtime.  Well done.

My advice would be, in order to help you cope with the night wakings, go to bed as early as possible and resign yourself to the fact that you could be up for a couple of hours during the night with him, that way, if he does wake then you are ready for it and will likely have more staying power!!  If he doesn't wake for a few hours then it will  be a great bonus and you will have a lovely rest.  I would do this until you are sure that he will sleep all night for you. 
During the night, do exactly what you do at bedtime, walkin walk out, however long it takes, so that he doesn't get mixed messages.  The message is, you are there for him, but he needs to sleep in his cot.

Good luck, and well done.

Offline imsmum

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2006, 19:08:10 pm »
How and when is Cole napping during the day?

Offline Colesmom

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2006, 19:42:15 pm »
hi there.  last night was better.  up for two hours from 12:30-2:30 but I didn't cave!  then he slept until 6:30 ;D

imsmum...he sleeps from 12:30-2:30 at daycare...most days the full two hours, some days a touch shorter.

in the middle of a class...gotta run.

feeling very positive today!
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Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2006, 20:39:04 pm »
Great Traci, well done for last night.  :D   :D

If he wakes at 2.30pm, try not to put him to bed later than 7.30pm.  ie no longer than 5 hours after he wakes from his nap.  I know that this can be difficult but try it if you can and it might help with the overtiredness.

Good luck, when you are feeling more positive it tends to get easier as you will be less streesed IYKWIM.

Offline Colesmom

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2006, 01:54:40 am »
it's getting better and better ;D bedtime only took 5 minutes tonight, and i think i walked in 3 times!  He was asleep by 8:25.

mari-I would LOVE to have him down by 7:30.  Cole used to be a 6pm bedtime baby...but with going back to work it got pushed back.  I have to be honest, I don't mind the later bedtime as long as he sleeps through...which I think he will be able to.  Thing is, Cole rarely gives me more than 10 hours...so if he goes down at 7:30...5:30am doesn't look so great to me.

My ultimate schedule would be for him to sleep 8pm-6:30am.  Not too early or late (so we can go places in the evening if need be) and not too crazy early in the am either.  I had my share of 5am wakings and not so sure i could handle those anymore.

Anyhoo, i should run, enjoy my spot of tea before i lay my head down for the night...and get prepared for whatever is in store.  My trick last night was to bring a pillow and blanket in the hall.  Each time I walked out if he wasn't crying immediately (he often took a minute or so to start up again) i would lay down.  That way I was more comfortable while i counted and it forced me to stay out longer instead of rushing in too fast.  i nearly caved after 1hr45min...thank goodness i didn't!

Cole had a bit of diarhea at school today...so i'm hoping he's okay.  no fever, good mood...so i'm going to forge ahead.

have a lovely weekend everyone ;D
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Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2006, 09:29:50 am »
Great job.  I am really pleased for you, it's all down hill from now on.

Offline Colesmom

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 13:46:30 pm »
bedtime still going really well, but lapsed into AP again in the early morning one day and at 1:45 last night >:( I'm so angry with myself.  I went to bed too late.

No afternoon coffee for me today, bed by 9pm so I am prepared!

phew-had to come on and write it down so i don't go back on my word :P
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Offline mari

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Re: okay, it's me again, and i really really need to do wi/wo
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 14:47:58 pm »
Don't be angry with yourself, you are doing so well it's easy to allow yourself to lapse a little too early,  I used to think to myself, I've got it sussed now, it will be ok to stay and watch something on the TV for an hour, but it would be that night that Alex would decide to be awake for 4 hours!!!

I hope you have a great night tonight and in a week or two you can please yourself as to what time you go to bed.