Each day starts differently, is there a way to sort out?

[mysterymia]

We have been on EASY since six weeks but have had lots of additional issues to deal with like reflux, tummy dramas, overtired, fighting day sleep etc so we have settled into EASY which is based on our spirited lo going back to sleep 2.25 hrs after waking regardless of how long the nap was. This has just all fallen into place and we are actually getting day sleep in the last two weeks (our lo is 5.5 months). Currently she goes to sleep at 1900 (always has regardless of how she slept during the day) and sleeps til about 0330 or 0400. Mind you that was my saving grace when the days were a nightmare. They are not perfect now but at least we are getting somewhere! She doesn't wake at the same time each morning so I am still working on the deal that she is hungry. She doesn't have a dreamfeed anymore as she slept more settled and for about the same length of time without it. We are about to start some solids this week. She is breast fed with a bottle as well at bedtime feed (usually expressed milk but topped up with formula if I don't have enough) She has slept better at night since we started that as I seem to have a diminished supply by that time of the day.

My issue is this. As she wakes at different times for a feed ie 0300/0400, she often doesn't settle well afterwards. For example, if she feeds at 0300 or 0400 then she will generally settle til about 0600 The difficulty arises when like this morning she was awake and chatting/calling at 0415 but didn't really seem too unhappy. She can chat etc for a long time! I don't go to her straight away as often if she does it earlier in the night she will resettle. Generally she wont at this time of the night. So I leave her until she seems to be unhappy this morning it was 0520. I fed her and she settled back in her cot at 0545 and seemed to sleep for only 15 mins and then is up! She was happy and ready for the day at 0600.

This then means that she will not feed again before her next nap. This morning I experimented and offered her a feed at 0600, 0630, 0700 and 0730. She declined then all. She was ready for bed at 0800 (which was 2 hours since waking) so I put her down and she has now been sleeping for an hour. I would expect that she will wake needing a feed by 0930ish.

It feels like the night feed is really a day feed and that putting her back to bed at 0530ish seems like a waste of time. This morning is the first time that I have had success after she fed late and didn't resettle. It usually throws out the nap.

Should I be trying to extend her overnight sleep? I really feel blessed that she sleeps so well at the start of the night so I am not complaining but I'm wondering if I should be trying to the get the day started kind of at a similar time especially as I will be adding solids and trying to fit it all in.

Resettling her has not seemed to work as she is so spirited that she just gets more upset. We have achieved the most success (ie she has) when we follow her cues (now that she has some!) Her naps went from non existent to good.

Any thoughts would be lovely.

[* Paula *]

Would it be possible for you to post a detailed routine of what a typical day looks like with regards to E (how long), A time, windown and S - how long, so that we can get a better picture of what your day looks like.

Thanks
Paula x

[mysterymia]

Thanks Paula,

E: 1800ish Bath, bottle and BF (feed can take anywhere from 15 to 45 mins)
A: Wind down of quick story 2 mins (starting to introduce a story before bed to distance after feed, she is awake tho)
S: 1845-1900 asleep
Generally settles without intervention has a 'lovie' (occ requires pat/sh about 2-5 mins) Doesn't have a dummy (pacifier)
Woke at 0200 'chatting' but settled self about 0230
Woke at 0430 left initially but ready for feed
E: 0445-0520 
S: In bed and seemed to go to sleep but chatting at 0540 and wouldn't resettle. Got up at 0600.
E/A: Offered top up at 0600, 0630 & 0700 not interested.
Wind down for day sleeps is change nappy put in sleeping bag and come out to say 'I'm going to have a sleep etc' to Dad if here or the dog etc. Then into room to get lovie out of the cot for a cuddle while I shut the blind. I place in her into her cot with her lovie and say 'off to sleep etc' (we discovered early on that she is too clued into what is going on and she was starting to scream as soon as she realised she was going to bed so a short wind down has seemed to be better) She is so alert that if she is quiet it seems better to leave her and go back if she is unsettled rather than staying as it seems to fire her up. When trying to sleep she pulls her lovie over her head almost as if to shut out the world!
S: 0715 (watching for signs assuming awake time since 0430. not sure if a 15 mins sleep changes things) was asleep by 0735 with sh/pat at 0725 for 10 mins. Slept til 0910
E: 0930-1000
S: 1125-1300 ( was 'glassy' looking at 2 hrs so started wind down at 1120)
E: 1330-1600
A/S: Had to go to town so she slept for 30 mins in the pram 
E: 1800 Bath, bottle, b/f
S: 1845 to bed had to sh/pat at 1900 for 5 mins woke at 0130-0200 for a feed slept til 0515
E: Fed 0515-0545 back in bed 0545 quiet for 20 mins then awake at 0605 up at 0630
E: Offered feeds but not interested
S: Grissly so put to bed at 0800 slept an hour til 0900 (She settled without any issues but I'm assuming that she would have been hungry by 0900)
E: 0915-0950
S: Seemed tired before 2 and a quarter hours rubbed eyes so put to bed at 1120 had to pat/sh before leaving the room til 1130 and she then slept for 30 mins. Tried pat/sh but never works. Seems as if once she is awake she is awake.

I actually said to my husband that we have only really got some results from getting her A time better because she does the rest. Pat/Sh works if needed as long as she is ready to go to sleep. If the time is wrong it's a battleground and it can take an hour of pat/sh comforting words etc. I have tried PU/PD but it seems to fire her up more.

I just was wondering if I could somehow work with her am wake up better to at least start each day off the same. It's almost as if the short resettle mucks everything up for time.

We have tried very hard to resist accidental parenting although when she was only sleeping short patches, and not enough to get to the next feed. Her A times then were out of control. She has only reduced her feeding time to about 30 mins. Up to last week she was taking 45 mins at least to feed. I would put her in the pram and try to get some extra sleep in each cycle to 'reset' each time. If the weather was bad I would put her in the baby bjorn. I mostly used it if we were out and only sparingly.  It's very irritating however to have our friends (who all seem to have angel babies) ask us if we would be in any better position if we had rocked her to sleep etc.

She is also the sort of baby that will sleep in the pram but only if at the right tired time and only if moving. She will wake as soon as you stop if shopping etc. She used to scream every time we put her in the car seat but thankfully she is getting a bit better now.

Sorry that's it's a bit long but I hope that it makes sense.

Kathy

[~Kiki]

Reading this was like reading a day with my lo. Reflux and all. I don't have any advice, just wanted to let you know that you're not alone on this we're in the exact same boat.

[mysterymia]

Thanks for that. It is nice to know that we are not on our own. It's such a dilemma about going to her at night as I don't want to feed her as a prop but she seems hungry. It does seem to be different times ie overnight she chatted from 0300 to 0430 when I decided that if i didn't feed her then she would be awake. So fed her and she slept from 0500 to 0600. I wonder if solids may make a difference?

Mind you I still feel like a disaster area this morning. Am hoping that she will sleep today so I can get a nap as well.

Have a good day!

[* Paula *]

Kathy,

Thanks for posting such a detailed routine    From what I can see your routine looks good, and are doing well with your naps, and settling your lo down for the night.

From what you are saying, your lo is definitely waking at night due to being hungry and wanting a feed.

Have you tried cluster feeding and offering a dreamfeed at night to help your lo tank up?

This may help to eliminate some night wakings.

Introducing solids is not always the answer, and there is no definite proof that if you introduce solids, your lo will sleep through the night.  If introduced too early (the guideline is not before 6 months), this can cause other issues i.e. with your lo's digestive system, allergies, gas etc.

Also when your lo wakes at 5:00 - have you tried just offering a small amount of water and then to see if your lo will re-settle after that?  It could be that she is waking out of habit at this time, and if you offer water, she may find that it is not worth waking for.  Hope that makes sense.

Paula x

[mysterymia]

Thanks Paula, We had a dreamfeed from eight weeks to about a month ago. I used to go to bed at 8.30pm and set my alarm from 10.30 to get up and one night I didn't set the alarm properly and woke at midnight. I let her go and she still woke at a similar time ie 0300 to 0500. Over a few nights it was as if nothing had changed. In fact she was at times waking at 0100 or 0200 but that stopped when the dream feed stopped. I might try the cluster feed again though. I wasn't planning on introducing solids for that reason but she is almost six months and I was just wondering if it might make a difference. She is only little also so I don't necessarily expect her to not feed it's the resettling that's a problem.

Good idea about the water although she doesn't really drink much yet. I had planned on offering more with her solids. She'll try but not drink any.

DH is on leave for a week in a couple of weeks so I thought that perhaps he could go to her and see if she would settle. (he is normally working 2/3 nights a week)

I really do love my little spirited girl but she's really making me work! I guess that I can cope with her being overtired and not going to sleep easily (took 55mins of screaming this morning!!! I had to do a slower version of PU/PD and then pat/sh but she went to sleep) but it really does my head in that then she will only sleep for 30 or so mins. I have to admit that I certainly didn't expect that 6 months down the track of motherhood I would be struggling to get out of the house.

Hey Jitterbug's mum if you want to compare notes for a bit of moral support just shoot through a pm.

[~Kiki]

I've never heard the water idea. We're definitely going to try that one tonight or should I say really early tomorrow morning! Our little girl was fabulous until the time change, then everything went crazy. Funny thing is I didn't even try to move her routine back an hour. Good luck - I'll be thinking of you at 3/4 AM

[* Paula *]

Kathy and Jitterbugs' Mum,  how did last night go?

[~Kiki]

Well, since I was totally setup with the water and ready for her to wake up she slept until 6 AM. So we started our day then. I'll be ready again tonight! She'll start waking back up once I've decided to stop getting the water ready. She's got super-baby-sense! Thanks for asking!

[mysterymia]

We had a ghastly night as she seemed revenous. Guess that she might be having a growth spurt. Will see how tonight goes. Thanks for thoughts!

[~Kiki]

I'm wondering if Ella was going through something as well. She actually has had most of the symptoms of teething for awhile, but none are popping out yet. It's 7:30 AM and she still hasn't woken up yet! Thank goodness. I have no idea what to do with this extra time!

[* Paula *]

Jitterbug's mom, that is great news about her sleeping until 6am - way to go    They can definitely still be teething even when you do not see any signs of the teeth - this is when they start moving up into the gum and can be very painful for them.

Kathy, I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad night - hugs - she could very well be heading for a growth spurt - are you able to try and offer her any extra top ups during the day to try and get a few more calories into her?

[mysterymia]

Thanks Paula, she seems to be very determined about whether she is hungry or not. She resists breast feeding if not hungry perhaps I could try a bottle though. She has resisted taking a bottle but I've persevered really slowly so she will take some at her feed before bed although she will breast feed and have a bottle as well. It's almost as if she will have some of the bottle 'as long as it doesn't interfere with my proper feed!' Little muchkin!

Today I believe that I got her time right (although if she is awake before I hear her who knows?) but she screamed for an hour before I could get her to sleep. It just does my head in, especially when I know that if I brought her out of her room she would instantly be quiet. It's so wearying. I just feel so inadequate as a mum. I just can't get my head around the fact that she is almost perfectly happy unless we are trying to get her to sleep (during the day) In the evening she pretty much just goes to sleep. I've been trying to do PU/PD when she doesn't settle but it seems to make her worse but when she is struggling if I leave her she just escalates even further. This afternoon I didn't leave the room (I usually do if she is only just making little squeaks) and pat/sh which worked she was asleep. It took about 20 mins which was great and much nicer than this morning.

Overnight she woke at 0200 but resettled and then at 0430. I fed her and she slept til 0630.

Jitterbug's mum-I have wondered about teeth myself at times but no sign yet.

[* Paula *]

Kathy,

It might be worth popping onto the Nap boards to see if they can give you any advice on settling your lo to sleep.

Teething could definitely be the reason you are struggling.  Have you tried rubbing some teething gel on her gums before nap time?