no progress with toddler p/d

[Leosmama]

After developing a pretty entrenched rubbing/patting/singing to sleep habit, I knew I needed to do something to re-teach ds (15 months old) to fall asleep on his own.  I've done gradual withdrawel in the past with success, but it did involve quite a bit of crying while I sat in the middle of the room without interacting with him.  So I decided to do p/d combined with gradual withdrawel.  At first it seemed like it was going to work, but over a week later nothing has improved.  It takes around 30 minutes every night, and the same pattern occurs where about 10-15 minutes into it he gets really worked up and hysterical.  Basically, the second I move away from the crib he loses it.  In the past I was able to actually go to the door and stay there while he fell asleep, and then eventually I was leaving the room.

Some facts about our current situation: ds recently got over a cold, and today at his checkup the dr. discovered some clear fluid in his ear; not enough to be a full-on infection but enough to be uncomfortable.  He's also had this mild intestinal bug that causes frequent, somewhat loose stools; although since this morning this seems to have abated.  And as always, he seems to be teething (this has been going on for 2-3 months!).  Also, the SA is at an all-time high.

Tonight, about 45 minutes before bed, I gave him Tylenol to cover any ear pain as well as teething pain; I also gave him teething tablets.  But it still took just as long to get him to settle.  I think he's actually falling asleep more out of pure exhaustion from all the standing up and laying down.

Should I stop doing the p/d and try something else?  Gradual withdrawel worked so well before, but now he seems to get more upset when I move away from him.  It's beginning to feel like I'm never going to be able to leave his room before he falls asleep 

One other thing since doing this....he now gets upset during winddown.  He normally loves his bedtime story, but now he starts getting really upset when I pick the book up to read.  And then when we do settle into a book he wants to keep flipping back to earlier pages to prolong going to bed.  Tonight I decided to give him an extra cuddle after lights-out, where I held him and sang to him before putting him into the crib.  He really calmed down and I thought that was going to help things but the minute he was in the crib, he was crying.

Help!  What should I be doing?

[Katet]

Have you tried leaning over the crib to cuddle him & comfort him while he is there... I have done that with Liam & it did really help. I literaly would stand there singing a lullaby for as long as it took for him to feel relaxed in my arms & then try to lower him to the mattress, if he struggled I kept holding.

[MDHmommy]

Jennifer,
Is it possible that combining PD with Gradual Withdrawl is confusing LO? Like he doesn't quite understand where you're going to go after you lie him down? i.e. "Will she stay, will she walk away?"

I've been struggling on and off for months with my son and the combo of PD and sleeping in his room....
I recently (in the past week) have switched to PD and Wi/Wo. The first night was awful, but he's actually doing much, much better. There's still a bit of a struggle at bed time, but not more than 15 mins or so.

You say that SA is at an all time high, so Wi/Wo might not be a good idea right now - but maybe *just* do PD. i.e. PD, then take one big step away from crib and stay put. Possible that might help?

Mari or Florencia might have some more ideas.

Hang in there!!

[Leosmama]

When I say I'm combining p/d with gradual withdrawel, I simply mean that I intend to move a little further away after putting down once he seems to be OK with it.  so basically, I'm staying pretty close to the crib after each p/d.  I agree that wi/wo might not be the best right now, but I've been so curious about trying it since nothing else seems to be doing the trick.

Kate, I do like your suggestion and will do that tonight.  So did you hold him just over the mattress, or would you pick him all the way up and sing to him before trying to put him down again?

I've noticed the ds is becoming more defiant in general, and he is really fighting against most of our winddown routine.  Today before his nap he took the book I was about to read out of my hand and threw it on the floor, shaking his head 'no'    Kind of sad, since I always cherished our quiet time together before sleep.

[imsmum]

I'm a bit foggy on this since it's been a while (my younger dd is 29 months) but I'm wondering if you are putting ds in his crib too late.  Around that age (or maybe a bit sooner, closer to one year)  I found the same thing--dd was getting harder to put down--stick her in the crib and the protest would start. 

I found I had to cut down on the cuddles a bit and actually get her into the crib well before she was tired and do the rest of the windown in there, which really consisted of putting her bandages on ( no booboos but we have been in the bandage stage forever now) and tucking her in and letting her chat away to herself for a good  while to get herself settled.  It was like once her only sleepy winddown process was started,  if I tried to leave it was too disruptive--a bit of a shift from the baby days when the idea was to get them sleepy and relaxed before putting them in. 

So I would suggest starting your winddown 15 minutes earlier, put him in the crib, give him a couple of pats and then maybe try to leave if you are feeling brave or sit on the floor out of view and repeat the patting as necessary--ie.  if there is a protest cry.

Kate, I do your method too if Margot is really upset and protesting and it works great --I call it the noodle because at my dd's age she keeps trying to climb out of the crib when she is crying.  I do the soae thing--hold her close if she is upset and crying to give comfort, but if she tries to climb up me or out of the crib and still hold her but relax and slump over the crib "like a noodle" so that she can't climb out.  When she relaxes enough I lay her down holding her all the way.  It worked great with my older dd when I was sleep training her and my younger one too!

[Katet]

Jennifer, he is standing in the cot, I'm not physically picking him up we are more leaning into each other & I pat his back etc.  kind of like an adult standing cuddle where you lean into each other
When Liam pushes the book away I take it as a sign he is ready for bed & reading is too much & so we go straight into the cot... I do find those are the days I need to give him more of a cuddle when he is physically standing in the cot.

I also have to agree try starting the process a bit earlier

[Leosmama]

OK, that's interesting; I'm still in the "wait for signs of sleepiness" before putting him to bed' mode.  I'm always afraid he'll be even more upset if I put him down when he's not tired.  I'm all for putting him down a bit earlier, but I really think all this protesting and resisting is a direct result of my starting p/d.  Before that, I could put him in the crib and he'd immediately get into his 'sleep' position like he was all ready to go.

Tonight when I tried holding him and singing to him before going into the crib, he totally fought it so after one song I put him in the crib, told him to lie down (he seems to be responding better to verbal directions right now more than anything), and then went right back to rubbing his back and talking to him in a soothing voice.  I think tomorrow I'll try the standing, leaning into each other cuddle and see if it makes any difference.  He just gets so angry now when I put him in there!

[Mom to M&M]

That's funny - I do the same lean against crib hug and eventual lay down and once down I usually hold her hand for another minute or pat her if she needs. Works well at bedtime and middle of night if she wakes - naps are another story...

[Leosmama]

Well, something worked, because tonight was a complete 180 degree turn from the past few.  I got him down just a bit earlier (only by about 10 minutes though), after he quietly sat through a fairly long bedtime story.  I held him in my arms and sang one song, and put him down in the crib.  He did not sit up or protest/cry at all!    I just had my hand on his back for a few seconds, then took it away.  He said one "word" kinda to himself, and then got quiet.  I left the room in a matter of minutes.  Truly shocking.

Kate, I have to say I read one of your replies to another post where you talked about shifting your thinking about a situation.  I realized that I've been looking at the SA as a problem that needed to be "fixed".  Today I decided to just go with it, and gave him as much love, cuddling and kisses that he could possibly stand.  I also gave him my undivided attention from dinner on until bedtime.  I really think making this shift changed my overall energy, allowing Leo to be more relaxed about everything.  Anyway, just wanted to thank you again for indirectly helping me with that!

Now we'll just see how the rest of the night goes....

[Katet]

Jennifer, the shift of thinking has been the biggest help to me as a parent. When things aren't working if I can think of it in a different light, usually it more or less solves it self because 9/10 times we are focused on the the wrong part of the issue.
Glad it helped & I can tell you it has become so much part of me that if I'm faced with something that is stressing me, I look at ways I can change my thinking. Classic is Liam tends to be "needy" due to getting his eye teeth, so I've taken it as an opportunity to sit & have a coffee & just cuddle him. rather than being annoyed that I can't get dinner etc.