could 10 mo old really need more A time?

[etmom]

My ds is actually 10.5 mos old and has started fighting at the beginning of naps and bedtime.  He has always cried 2-3 minutes (matra cry) but it has become more like 5-10 minutes and I think this is too long, isn't it?  Could it be that he needs more awake time?  Or maybe just some more reassurance at nap time?  Here is our typical awake and sleep schedule:

6:30 wake
9:30  nap.  If he isn't awake by 11, I wake him.  If he does wake early it's not earlier than 10:45.
2  second nap (three hours after waking from first nap)
then he'll wake up around 3:30.  Bedtime is 7:30

And another difficulty with keeping him up more than this three hours is I have a two year old that is actually pushing it to stay up to 1:30 for his nap and so I don't want 10 month old going down much later than two. 

What should I do if awake time is the issue?  Maybe try nap at 9:45am and just make it one hour?  Then it stretches awake times to 3 hrs 15 minutes?  Is this too long?  He's always been at the lower end of the sleep need spectrum, but I'm trying to maintain overlap in afternoon nap and bedtime with his brother, who could even be in bed by seven each night (or earlier!) 

As mentioned, he's always done the 2-3 minute cry, but isn't this getting excessive?  Would it seem he needs reassurance or more wake time?  I've read Tracy's book but my first son was always a great sleeper so I'm not familiar with dealing with these sleep issues in an older infant or what kinds of methods could be used.

[* Paula *]

Do you think your DS could have a bit of seperation anxiety?  Does he do this at all naps and bedtime?

[Mamalou]

My Lo does the crying thing,not at every naptime but sometimes and I thought it was just his way of settling. Sometimes if it escalates into a real cry then i go in and pat him or kiss him and reassure him, but I thought it was normal...Sometimes before sleeping at night he has mantraed like 20-30 minutes! Nerve-racking (always worried maybe it's not a mantra) but he goes off to sleep and is fine. 

As for the naps, have you talked to Samijoe? She has a 10  mo old and does a 45 min first nap (wakes her if she has to) and then a 1.5 hr for second nap, otherwise her LO won't sleep well.
My LO does his in the reverse order, longer am nap and shorter pm nap, but Samijoe said she thinks the longer pm nap is suppossed to be more resorative for them...
I'm not ready to change it yet as my LO can finally sleep well in the pushchair and so we get to go out everyday for his second nap....

not sure if that helps...good luck

[etmom]

Thanks for the helps.  Didn't know a mantra could be so long.  The other thing I forgot to mention is that he's starting to wake about an hour into his afternoon nap and cry around 10 minutes then go back to sleep. 

I have not talked to Samijoe.    But one reason I've not wanted to cut way back on the morning nap was because I had thought, at this age, it was important as a continuation of nighttime sleep (more REM).  But maybe I'm backwards on that!

It does happen at naps and bedtime, and he's never been one to go right down so maybe the longer time period is connected with sep. anxiety.  I know he's going through that now.  How do   you deal with that with sleep?

Mamalou,  I agree that this is so nerve-racking!  And sometimes I get so anxious.  I've thought it is his way of going to sleep, too.  ONe reason is because when I've tried to settle him in the past it hasn't worked at all.  He's still screaming.  Does your LO scream even as you lie him in the crib for the nap?

THanks for some reassurance and ideas to try.  I appreciate feedback and also knowing there are others out there whose LO's don't cheerfully drift off to dreamland!

[* Paula *]

With regards to the seperation anxiety, you just have to reassure your lo that you are there.  We went through a phase where we had to sit next to the cot to get our DS to sleep.  When we did this we never made eye contact with him, we just reassured him that we were there.  After a few days we started moving further and further away from the cot until he was able to go to sleep without us.

HTH's

[Mamalou]

etmom- that's why it's so nerve-racking! Because at times I've thought he needed me, gone in, tried to settle him, but seems he just wants to be left alone, occassionally getting more upset with me there, other times he settles right away with a pat. 
My LO used to cry when I put him down for a nap, from the moment I laid him down, but once we got a good naptime routine going that stopped eventually.  Now he lets a bit of a cry out when I put him in the grobag, but I just say, it's just naptime, or it's just bedtime and that's it... the crying usually starts after I leave the room...
tonight he was crying like a mantra (but I was anxious it might be more , "should I go in?or..."(ugh ) and dh was down getting his lovey out of the car (we left Grover there all alone!) and I went in to give it to him (scared to even do that-but figured it might help him) and he immdediately laid his head down and started sucking his thumb-as if to go asleep..
He cried a blt more when I left again, but soon slept. 

So hard to know, huh?
good luck
Kristi