BIG problem sleep+feeding only at night

[ad901]

Hey, I have been having some big issues with my LO's sleeping.  He used to sleep 5-6 hours per night until he was 3 months old.  He then had a growth spurt and was awake every 2 hours at night to feed (he is breast fed) as well as feeding every 2hrs during the day.  He's now 5 months and for the past 2 months seems to have dropped the daytime feeding altogether and only feeds during the night!!!!  I cant seem to break this cycle as he obviously wakes because he is hungry and I don't feel I should deprive him of food that he needs.  He is very good at getting himself off to sleep and uses a soother to comfort himself so I don't believe it's a comfort issue.  he goes straight back off to sleep after a feed without a problem but it means once I settle him and get myself back to sleep I am only having about an hour at a time.  If he ever does take a feed in the day he brings it straight back up.  Was wondering if this may be reflux or just that he's so difficult to keep calm in the day.  An 'outside' point of view would be lovely, or has anyone experienced a similar thing?  Please Please help!!!!

[andibig]

((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))
i'm not sure if this is reflux although i'm not an expert.have you made an appt with the DR?
so he is not taking ANY feeds during the day at all?
i would say you need to start weaning some of those night feeds.

do you want me to move this post to Breast Feeding and see if you get a better response?
Andrea

[andibig]

i'm going to move this over to breast feeding to see if they can give you some advice about weaning the night feedings

[daisymelan]

Does he bring up all his feeds durings the day?  When did this start?  Are all his feeds at night?  A sample routine of your day would be helpful.  The only thing I can think of is that he is more relaxed at night and not taking in as much air while nursing, so not throwing it up at night.

{{hugs}}

[ad901]

Yep, all his milk feeds are at night.  On advice of health visitor, when this had been happenning for about a month, we started solids which he loves.  However, he doesnt take any fluid at all during the day (I have tried EVERYTHING in all types of ways!!!)  and his food needs to be quite thick.  We saw the GP who could only suggest letting him cry it out at night but I believe he really is wanting BF and it isnt a comfort issue at all.  I'm also worried about him not getting fluids!!

Our typical day would go:
7.30 LO wakes and will chatter away to himself for about half an hour
8.15 Breakfast, he doesnt eat v much but this seems fairly common on reading other messages on the boards
9.00 Dress/Play
9.30 Nap, he becomes very tired shortly after getting up.  I usually try to BF on him waking as if he ever does take anything its usually just after or during a nap.  However within ten minutes it will all come back up again (maybe because he's had enough at night or because he's more active??  He is soooodifficult to keep calm!!!)
10.00 Wake, Play/ out to baby group etc
12.30 Lunch
1.30 Nap (again will try and BF when wakes)
3.00/3.30 Wakes
5.30 Tea
6.30 Bath
7.30 BF then bed (he doesnt ususlly fall asleep at the breast but will doze then wake and use his dummy to go off to sleep)
He then wakes up after half an hour for another feed, then after an hour, then every two for the rest of the night til about 5 am.

Obviously not every day runs like clock work and going out etc will disrupt things but generally on a good day this is how it will go.

[daisymelan]

I hate to say this, but I disagree with the advice that the health advisor suggested.  World Health Organization recommends that babies begin solids only at 6 months of age, and even then, it is only one meal a day.

I think your little one is too full on solids to get any food into their tummy during the day.  Milk should be their #1 source of nutrition through their entire first year.  I would suggest removing the meals and concentrate on getting your little one to nurse durin ghte day.  Also, if you do want to offer solids, I would suggest breastfeeding beforehand. 

I don't know about the throwing up... that's still a mystery to me.  I dont' think it's because he's active... and it's too long after the night feeds for it to be related to being too full from that.  It sounds at night like he's only taking little feeds if he's waking every hour.  Perhaps try offering smaller feeds during the day.  Also, try to keep him in an upright position for a half hour after his feed (impossible likely, I know.  LOL)

I hope this helps.  It sure sounds like you're doing everything in your power to help your lo out.

[RachelC]

I totally agree with Jodie.  I would go so far as to eliminate all solids, as breastmilk has far more calories and nutrition than solids.  Sounds like you've had a bit of reverse cycling going on, which I don't know much about, but here are some links:

http://www.mother-2-mother.com/reversecycling.htm

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/reverse-cycling.html

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I also agree with Jodie and Rachel about cutting down solids and increasing bf during day.  How is his weight gain?  Some babies just spit up a lot, but it doesn't mean they're not getting any.  My sister had a huge baby and he would spit up TONS until he was over 6 months, but he was happy and healthy.  Might be the case with yours too...

[ad901]

Thank you.  I checked out the links and they did help. I also found some more information on babies that are very easily distracted and that makes sense too.  Maybe he's just less distracted at night.  Also I have had a pretty hectic schedule for the last few months as DH has been away with work which may have led to the reverse cycling.  Maybe he just hasn't been getting my full attention.  We have implemented a new plan where DH (now he is back) is settling LO at night and trying to settle him each time he wakes before offering a feed if he won't settle.  That way LO won't sense/smell me and associate waking with feeding.  The last two nights seemed to go well and he has increased daytime feeds slightly.  He has also seemed more settled in the day so fingers crossed.  As you say, the spitting up is still a mystery though, maybe just one of those things that will resolve itself!!! DH is off again in two weeks though (this time for four months!!!)  so fingers crossed we have some luck by then.  Thank you!!

[daisymelan]

Happy our words were helpful.  You seem optimistic.... hope it all works out.   

[ad901]

Hi, been a while since I posted and have been trying everything.  My little boy was 7 months old yesterday and if anything his night wakings are getting worse not better.  It now appears to be every 1.5 hours.  My husband has just gone to sea for four months and i'm absolutely exhausted.  We tried weaning some of the night feeds but he just screams for hours, doesn't even seem to wear himself out.  We don't let hime cry it out as such, we try PU/PD and shh pat etc but nothing seems to work.  I would now like to wean him onto bottles and we tried this during the nights as well as offering him them during the day but he's still refusing any liquid during the daytime.  The bottles at night just made him scream too, even with expressed milk.  I feel like I'm going round in circles and can't figure out whats wrong.  Any more ideas?

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

HUGS!  What's his current daytime routine like?

[ad901]

7.15 breakfast (very small amount porridge)
9.15 Nap for approx hour (usually try bf when wakes but doesnt take anything!!)
12.30 Lunch (again small amount, veggies/meat)
Somewhere between 1.15 - 2.00 Nap (1 and half - 2 hours)
Sometimes will BF on waking
4.30 Tea (veggies/meat)
He suddenly seems to need a nap again at about 5.30 now, (despite never needing one before!!!)  If I try and make him wait he's so teasy and bedtime routine becomes agonising with screaming etc.  He will sleep for half an hour.
7.00 Bath and Bed, used to go straight to sleep following bath by 7.30, now with the additional nap he takes longer to settle but usually asleep by 8.30
He now will sleep until 11 when I BF then its about every 1.5 hours he wakes. 
I know a natural sleep cycle is about 1.5 hours so I think thats why he's waking I just can't seem to get him to settle back down.  He screams the house down!!!

He used to eat loads of solids but I cut back in the hope that he would start daytime BF but it didn't help in the slightest.  He seems to have written his own rules and I'm going round in circles.

[daisymelan]

HUGS HUGS HUGS!!!!

I would again suggest reducing solids, but it sounds like you tried that route.  How long did you reduce the amount?  I would suggest giving it a good two weeks, as he's older he will take longer to adjust to new things.

I personally would pick one method and stick to it for a couple weeks.  Pu/pd is the suggested method for a child of 7 months.  They don't like it, but it does work.  Have you tried counting the pu/pds and seeing if he's making progress each time?  I remember Tracy saying that it can start out over 100 times and then they reduce it.

HUGS again.