Help! Nearly 9 months and still waking

[Minx]

Hi
Not sure if this is the right place so please move if not.
My dh and I are going through an absolute nightmare at the moment, in brief:

1.  dd nearly 9 months has been waking throughout the night since she was 3 months (started going through at 7 weeks and then it all went horribly wrong & cannot pinpoint anything that triggered it.)

2.  There seems to be no routine in it all, sometimes she wakes every 45mins-1hr throughout the night (at the moment this is happening most nights) other nights it may be every couple of hours.

3.  Sometimes she can be settled with her dummy other times with a pat and a shh, sometimes being held and when we've really had enough in our bed (this sounds horribly inconsistent I know but don't know what to do for the best)

4.  Her day starts at 5am, regardless of how much sleep she has or hasn't had.

5.  She has 2 naps in the day, in her cot.  Sometimes for 1 1/2 and sometimes as little as 1/2 (no rhyme or reason.

Sorry tried to keep it as brief as I could!

Just wondered if anyone had any advice or a starting point because at the moment we can't see the wood from the trees 

Sorry if I've gone on.
Thanks
xkarenx

[Minx]

So sorry just realised there are set things you need to know, I've listed them below:

How old is your child?  nearly 9 months
What’s his/her daily routine?
5.am - Wake
07.00 - Bottle (around 6 oz from 8oz bottle)
08.00 - Breakfast
08.45 - Nap anywhere between 1 1/2 hrs - 1/2.  Nap sometimes taken in buggy due to toddler attending nursery
12.00 - lunch
13.30 - Nap, again anywhere between 1 1/2 hrs - 1/2 hr
16.00 - Bottle
17.00 - Dinner
18.30 - Bottle
19.00 - Bed
What’s nap routine?  Usally one around 8.45 and another around 13.30
How long are naps?  Anywhere between 1 1/2 hrs - 1/2 hr
What's bedtime routine? Time?  bath and bottle (was giving her bottle in bedroom with light off but she was falling asleep in my arms and waking up when I put her in cot, so now I give her the bottle downstairs
Do you bottle or breastfed??  Bottle
How much? or how long?   Around 5/6oz
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed)
How many wakes per night?  No pattern, alot though
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Again no set pattern sometimes a dummy will soothe her, sometimes shh/pat, sometimes being held and if all else fails she ends up in bed between me and dh!
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry?  Until a few days ago I didn't know what a mantra cry was and I know that before I was trying to settle her when she was doing this but now if she's doing it I leave her to settle herself
What have you tried to settle??
What do you do for A time and how long is it?
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?  Within past 2 weeks first tooth is through and second just come through the gum
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
Do they have a prop? If so what is it?  Yes a dummy and will not sleep without it unless in buggy or car
Do they have a lovie?  Not sure what a lovie is    I'm presuming it's a comforter like a little blanket thingy??  She does have one with a little teddy on the end but doesn't have it in bed with her

Apologies for not including the above info in my previous post.

xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Oh my goodness do you have a lot going on! I'm sorry things have been so rough. The first thing that I see is that the afternoon A time is far too long. I think she is caught in a cycle of overtiredness.    If she's waking at 5 like that, then I would suggest putting her to bed earlier. Sounds sort of backwards I know, but it works. That would also serve to shorten the long pm A time.

The teething lately is probably a factor as well, have you treated it with anything?

Does she wake for the paci - like when it falls out? If she won't sleep without it at home I suspect it might be time to consider getting rid of it.

Your avatar is the COOLEST! Where did you get the image, or how did you do it?

[Minx]

Thanks 
I'll try putting her to bed earlier at first and then try removing the dummy as she does wake for it although not all of the time.  Deep down I know I've got to get rid of it but I'm dreading the reaction from her as once I put her down for her afternoon nap without it and all hell broke loose!  I know it'll be better in the long run but I don't feel I've got the energy for it at the moment
I got my avatar from http://avatars.jurko.net/  they're free and there's pages of them!
Thanks again for your advice, I will give it a go.
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

I know what you mean about the paci, it's hard... Just decide when you're ready to deal with it. Consistency is important, so if you decide to get rid of it make sure that you can handle the protest and not cave because that will make it even harder in the future.

[Minx]

Thanks, I know you're right about the dummy.  I'm going to give her her bottle now and then take her to bed.
By the way that's a gorgeous little boy you've got there, you must be so proud 
Thanks again for taking the time to help me.
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Let me know how it goes! I can relate to the exhaustion, Colin was a very challenging sleeper too.    He is pretty gorgeous though I must admit, thanks 

[Minx]

Hi
I *think* she's gone off to sleep (fingers crossed), how long she'll stay like that though I don't know.  After I fed her down here, she only took 2oz and refused the rest although she doesn't take too much before bed, I took her up, laid her down to which she immediately tried to stand so I laid her down again and moved away from the bed.  She let out a cry so I shhhed and stopped, moved away a bit further and eventually made my getaway out of the door and not heard a peep since!  I'll let you know how it goes tonight tomorrow.
Thanks again, it's great to come on here and speak to people that understand 
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Yeah, she might be sort of confused for a couple of days but that's normal. 

[Minx]

Arggghhh, she woke up after 2 hrs and every 1 hr since    I'm dreading going to bed as I know I'm not going to get much sleep.  Just feel so tired 
Anyway I'll stop moaning now, it's just nice to have somewhere to vent, please feel free to ignore me!  Will update tomorrow.
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Karen we won't ignore you, that's what we're here for!! Feel free to vent anytime.

Making changes is hard on everyone, but it's worth it in the end. Do you have Tracy's books? You might want to check out the EASY forum on here - there are sample EASY routines for each age range. You can take a look and see what works for other people.

[Minx]

Thanks Jessica 
I don't have Tracey's books but I'm planning on getting them.  I know she's written 3, would the 1st or the 3rd one be the best for the situation I'm in at the moment?  Or both?
Will check out the E.A.S.Y. forum tomorrow.
Thanks for the support, it really is appreciated.
Off to bed now to hopefully get some sleep.
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

Well, that depends. Your little minx is too young yet for the toddler book, so don't worry about that yet. The Secrets book is shorter and more of an overview while the Solves all Your Problems (BWSAYP as we call it here) goes into much more detail and is more specific with techniques like PU/PD. I really like the Secrets book because it has a lot of insights and concepts in it, like WHY independence is important, routine vs. schedule, that sort of thing. I think you should definitely read both for sure.

[Minx]

Thanks Jessica, I'll get both 
Well dd woke 4 times in the night (which is really good for her), she needed minimal settling for the first 3.  I really let myself down though on the forth, at 4.00am she started and wasn't settling and I was scared she was going to wake ds so I brought her into bed with me and she slept until 6.00am (although gave a cry out at 5.00am when she usually rises).  I know I shouldn't have brought her in bed but she has been waking ds early in the morning and he's really been playing up lately as he's so tired.  I feel a bit caught inbetween, I want dd to learn to settle herself but not to affect ds's sleep as he doesn't have a nap in the day anymore so gets very overtired and quite challenging with all the early rising 
Anyway, thanks again for all your help and support.
xkarenx

[Colin Macs Mom]

That's great!! Things do take time to straighten out but it helps to recognize the improvements along the way.    I can't imagine how hard it all is with two, so I would think a little AP would be normal. Just do the best you can and you'll be fine