Could it be (yet another) growth spurt?

[Cornish smiler]

Hi, I am Ali and am the proud mum of 18 week old Sam.  Now young Sam is being very naughty and waking every 2 hours which I am finding exceedingly hard to cope with.  Up until now he has been ebf but my GP and Health Visitor have recommended he has a bottle of formula last thing each night which my husband will give to him.  I'm really not sure as he is going just over 3 hours between feeds during the day (I'm trying to make sure he gets good calories during the daytime) but at night when he wakes normally at 3ish he'll have a decent feed but at his other 1 and 5 feeds he just has a few minutes and then more or less falls asleep on me.

I'm finding it very hard as I also have a 4 year old daughter who I ebf with no formula and she slept all night from 14 weeks onwards so this is unchartered territory for me - I keep comparing Sam to Zoë although I know they are 2 completely different characters.  I suffer from PPD so the more tired I get the worse my depression gets and I worry this is going to spiral out of control.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi Ali, huge hugs to you!!!! I can relate, as I also really struggled with my PPD the more tired I got in those early months. Things can be so hard when they're so young! He's gorgeous.

Can you post your normal daily routine with him?

[Cornish smiler]

Well, our routine isn't very organised as yet I'm afraid but basically I'm trying the 3 hour EASY (but seems to end up more like AESY with not much emphasis on the Y bit!!)  It would be something like:-

6.45   E
7.15   A
9.00   S (but takes 10 mins to settle then only sleeps for maximum of 45 mins)
9.45   repeat the above cycle until 5.00 when I give bf, then bath at 6.15, then another bf at 6.45 aiming to be in bed by 7.00.  I've done the occasional DF at 10.45 or so but, to be honest, it doesn't seem to make that much difference

Tonight I made sure I put him down awake and he only took 5 mins to settle so was very pleased (he had been falling asleep on the breast). 

As I said, it's really a very rough routine and when I'm feeling better I want to get it more organised.  The main daytime problem we have is that he is not a napper at all and will just get progressively more cranky as the day goes on.  My plan for tonight is my husband will give formula when Sam next wakes and then I'll feed if it's been a 3 hour interval, if not I'll really try to settle him (even if he ends up with us in bed which I'll try to avoid).  I don't understand it as when he was younger he was going for 5 hours between feeds so I KNOW he can do it!!!

Thanks for your help Jessica - your little man is scrummy too!!!!  And yes, things are so hard when they're so young - sleep deprivation is a form of torture isn't it!

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

First things first - you must be consistent and that includes your routine. It's hard, I know, but the end results are amazing. You definitely do not want AES (and sometimes Y  ) because then you will end up with a feed-to-sleep association and a new set of problems. And you DEFINITELY do not want to bring him into bed with you. It's amazing how fast they can adapt and develop and new habit/expectation. As Tracy said, "start as you mean to go on" so if you don't want to start co-sleeping permanently, don't bring him to your bed. Believe me I know how tempting it is, but it's sooooo not worth it in the long run.

Have you checked out the EASY forum? There are sample routines in there for each age and perusing those can really help identify what might work for you. I'd suggest that you consider a 4 hour EASY instead of 3, but depending on your LO's personality sticking with a 3 for a while might be easier, but then you have one more transition over to the 4 hour to contend with. With that being said though, sometimes you have to do what you have to do to survive and bad habits CAN be fixed. So consider carefully.

You're doing very well to have put him down awake and have him asleep within 5 min      Feeding to sleep can be one of the hardest habits to undo so you're definitely on the right track. 

Have you checked out our PPD forum? It's a great source of info and support.

And yes, things are so hard when they're so young - sleep deprivation is a form of torture isn't it!

YES!!!! I don't miss those days much.     

[Cornish smiler]

Thanks Jessica.  I had been really good following the routine, but then this cursed depression really kicked in last week and I was going insane trying to put a little boy to sleep who REALLY did not want to sleep, even though he was giving the classic tired signs.  My depression just got worse and worse until I was completely unable to cope, and to be honest I'm not sure how much better I am now.  At the moment, I am not up to PU/PD so will try shush/pat.  I know consistency is key and I think I will try the routine as he should be up to it.  If we try 4 hour routine, won't he be starving hungry as he doesn't find it easy to go 3 hours - greedy guzzler that he is!!!  How about the short naps he takes - is that a problem, or when he wakes up do I just bring him down and do some A time before I'm next due to feed him?

I've checked out the PPD forum already and have had some wonderful support.  Thanks again for your help.

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

Do you know what his temperment is?

Do you have support, people who can help you out and maybe give you a break? I found I was able to cope much better after some relief and then was better able to get Colin on track.

If we try 4 hour routine, won't he be starving hungry as he doesn't find it easy to go 3 hours - greedy guzzler that he is!!! 

Maybe. But at his age he should be capable of doing it, but he's likely in the habit of eating at 3 hour intervals. He might yell at you a little for a couple of days, but he will adjust quickly. It's good that he's a good eater.

How about the short naps he takes - is that a problem, or when he wakes up do I just bring him down and do some A time before I'm next due to feed him?

Oh yes, short naps are absolutely a problem. Have you tried extending them?

[Cornish smiler]

Haven't really got support as my parents live 3 hours drive away so have to rely on my husband who works full time.  From Tracy's description, it seems like Sam is actually textbook but he's fallen off the track somehow!!

And yes, I have tried extending his naps but all to no avail - never had any success at all I'm afraid.  Even tried W2S but he woke 2 mins later!!!

Off to bed now - wish me good luck for tomorrow!  I'll keep you posted.

Many thanks, Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

Being textbook ought to make this process easier for you than other types, so that's good!

How long did you give W2S? How long before the waking time did you do it?


GOOD LUCK FOR TOMORROW!!!!  

[Cornish smiler]

Hi, I only did W2S a couple of times tbh as I wasn't 100% sure that I was doing it right.  Each time he woke up - I did it 5 mins before the earliest time he'd normally wake ie 25 mins thinking he could wake at 30.

Just thought you'd like a progress report on last night.  Sam woke at 11.00 so John gave him his formula which he took to immediately.  He had 6oz and immediately went to sleep straight after.  He woke at 3.00 and I fed him for 15 mins, changed his nappy etc and gave him a bit more.  Again, he went straight to sleep.  However he woke at 5.00 - I shush patted him for 10 mins with success but then bam awake again so did more shush patting and, after a further 40 mins, got him to sleep.  All fantastic but then his big sister came into our room at 6.30, coughed and woke him up so we had to start our day from there!!!!  All in all last night was better than the previous few nights have been.  I'm being very determined NOT to have him in our bed and also not rock/jiggle him.

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

Great!!! Glad that you're seeing some progress already   

To do wake to sleep, you need to do it consistently for at least 3 days, sometimes longer for it to kick in and show results. You want to do it 30 - 60 min before the normal wake time, and you don't want to literally wake LO. You want him to stir and change sleep cycles but not actually wake. So what exactly you do depends on how heavy or light a sleeper he is. Most people will stroke their cheek or tug a blanket. My DS is a VERY light sleeper so all that I did to stir him was turn the doorknob to his room.

[Cornish smiler]

Hi Jessica, this will make you laugh but Sam has only had 4 x 35-40 min naps today (which is actually an improvement!) so if I woke him 30 mins before he's due to wake up I'll have to do it 5-10 mins after he goes down!  He is a light sleeper so probably wouldn't need to do very much.  Should I do it, or use PU/PD to extend his naps and once they're established do W2S?

Planning for John to do more formula tonight at 11.00 and see if that gets him to sleep any longer.  All in all I think we've had a good day.

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

LOL Ali, I'm glad that you recognize that as progress, because it is!! You're doing great. I would go ahead with the PU/PD for now as long as it's working for you and you feel you can keep it up.

[Cornish smiler]

Hi Jessica, thought you'd like an update.  I did PU/PD on Wednesday and Thursday and already it seems to have helped.  OK, he's not sleeping any longer during the day, BUT he seems to have found his thumb/fingers and gives them a good old suck if he needs to get to sleep.  I sometimes need to remind him about them - I just touch his mouth with my finger and next thing he shoves his hand to his mouth.  The last few days he has had 4 separate naps each of around 40 mins.  I'm reading his signs better now and as soon as he first tells me he's tired it's off to bed.

So I think this has helped certainly last night's bedtime.  I fed him at 6.30 and he was in bed at 7.00 and then he slept right through until 11.50.  I fed him, he went straight to sleep and woke at 3.30.  Again I fed him (both these feeds were 40 mins or so and I made a real effort to keep him awake plus offered the other breast) and put him down.  This time it was lovely because he was wide awake when  I put him down but I could gradually hear his breathing change as he drifted off to sleep.  I've also taken to swaddling him but leaving an arm out so he can suck his fingers and that's helping.

Thursday night was horrific but I DF then and I think that seems to interrupt his sleeping time which can happen I've found out.  So no DF but a decent stretch of sleep (much better than every 90 mins or so)!  I also went to bed at 9.15 myself so feel better rested.

Thanks for your help.

Ali

[Colin Macs Mom]

You're doing really great Ali    Keep it up and you'll be in heaven before you know it.

I could never do a dreamfeed for the same reason you described, it only made things worse. Come to find out that's somewhat common actually. Sometimes it will disturb LOs sleep cycles/biorhythms and make a mess of things. If that's what you see happening, then quit the DF for sure. Instead I cluster fed in the evenings and that worked much better for us.

[Cornish smiler]

What sort of time did you cluster feed?  Sam goes to bed at 7 so, say, would you do 5 and 7?  How old was Colin before you stopped cluster feeding?   Incidentally, we've dropped the formula because it really didn't make any difference.  Thanks too for the words of encouragement - it helps me to keep going sometimes!!!