Making breastfeeding work second time round - 'Milk Never Came'

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Nish - it sounds like colostrum to me.  I had dryish yellowy stuff on my nipples during my pregnancy.  I'd wash it off in the shower and it'd just come back....dh found it really gross! (How's THAT for TMI!  )

[Ennypen]

Hi guys..

I have been reading this thread as I too never had any milk let down or anything..

I had a c section at 38 weeks and tried to breastfeed about 30 mins after birth but Woo would have none of it.. he had low blood sugar and ended up being cup fed about an hour later and then was bottle fed from there. I know this is an issue in itself but I was never encouraged to keep at breast feeding or try again.. in fact I feel that I was discouraged... whilst I was in hospital at least. There was only 1 person.. a visiting midwife who came to the house when woo was about a week old who tried to help me to get him to latch and start feeding. I think I managed to get him to latch for about 5 mins and then tried and tried and tried on my own in the days following but we both ended up in floods of tears and I started to bottle feed again as it seemed to calm us both.

After that I never experienced anything.. my breasts just well.. stayed the same.. there was no engorgement or anything.. I never leaked any colostrum or anything during pregnancy .. you'd swear that I wasn't pregnant as far as my breasts went.

I don't really know why I am sharing this .. I guess I really have never come to terms 100% with the fact that I "couldn't" breast feed Woo. As it turns out hes always been a hungry big baby and I probably would have ended up supplementing.. but all the same I never gave it a go. I don't regret bottle feeding.. but it still twinges a bit of disappointment that the dreams I had had of feeding him never came true.

When I have my next LO.. if I have another LO.. I will probably go for a c section. If I do what can I do to increase the chances that I can feed him/her. How do I stimulate things to happen after a c section.. ??

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Kellymom.com has a nice bit on breastfeeding after a c-section.
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/concerns/c-section.html

But the basic themes are:
Educate yourself
Get help early and whenever you think you might need it
Nurse early and often

There will always be circumstances and situations where despite every effort, supplementation is needed.  In those cases, uses means to promote bf'ing can help (lactation tube, cup or finger feeding instead of bottle).  Bottom line - you try your best, but you find some sort of system or compromise that works best for you and your lo.

[lilmonkey]

Mind if I lurk as well?  I don't want to have the same problem again.

Mimi

[Samuel's mum]

Nish - I agree with Erin - crusty dry bits around the nipples - sometimes little yellowy crystally bits or more whitish. This sounds like colostrum.

Helen - hugs - I'm sorry you didn't get support from those around you. Without any breast stimulation - i.e. sucking or pumping - you are not likely to get milk coming in properly and that's maybe why you didn't get the engorgement that's associated with milk transitioning in the week or so after birth. After a week your supply would have been pretty much non-existent. Telling someone to try and latch on after a week (at least she was making some effort) is really not going to solve any issues. By that point you'd have needed to be doing some mega-pumping with a double electric hospital grade pump and a whole regime of building your supply up probably under supervision. Helen - as a new mother - you can't guess this stuff. You were not given the information you needed. Infact people you trusted were telling you the opposite (the kindly midwife should have explained that it wasn't going to be as simple as latching him on). You really did the best you could have.

As for breast changes in pregnancy - it's not always easy to notice colostrum leaking unless you are really looking at for it. It might just get absorbed into a bra or perhaps you are simply a 'jump in the shower' kind of person. If you don't recall leaking - it doesn't mean you didn't. And breast size is a very individual thing - breasts vary in their composition and the way ducts and milk producing areas and fatty areas are arranged. It really isn't possible to say 'oh no your breasts didn't get bigger' - time to worry.
The bottom line is that if you have the hormones to conceive and carry a child you will have the capability of producing milk in the absolute vast vast vast majority of cases. A mother who is going to have problems will almost always know in advance - breast reduction, hormonal issues in her history, insufficient breast tissue (check out those pictures if you think that's you). It's just not the reality to say there is a statistically significant group of women who successfully manage pregnancy and birth and somehow the milk doesn't happen. The reality is it is because of circumstance that supply doesn't develop i.e. the breasts and the supply not getting the stimulation it needs in the first few days and weeks when supply is really getting set.

And yes, c-sections make life a bit trickier but c-section rates are climbing in the UK and US and breastfeeding rates are beginning to increase too. That's a lot of successful c-sectioners breastfeeding. It's just about getting that breast stimulation as I mentioned - early and frequent. Preparation is the key.

HTH

[sandraorion]

Nish - I agree with Erin - crusty dry bits around the nipples - sometimes little yellowy crystally bits or more whitish. This sounds like colostrum.

Hmm, then I guess, I did leak it too.

I guess my problem must have been latch then. I really counted on seeing LC after birth in the hospital and working through the issues in the first few days. Then turned out that it was Friday night when I was done with labor, and the hospital's LC was not going to be back until Monday (they work standard business hours Mon-Fri 9-5?!?) I was released from hospital on Sunday.

I wanted to thank you all. This thread has been tremendously helpful. This time around, two of my best friends here are very dedicated breastfeeders, so aside from LS I'll have them to ask questions.

[Samuel's mum]

Then turned out that it was Friday night when I was done with labor, and the hospital's LC was not going to be back until Monday (they work standard business hours Mon-Fri 9-5?!?) I was released from hospital on Sunday.

Business hours - are you kidding
How insane. We live in countries who claim to value breastfeeding and want to support mothers to begin breastfeeding if they want to. How hard would it really be to have trained people around when people are actually having their babies? Honestly
Or how hard would it be for every pediatrician to have a grounding in breastfeeding and the ability to cover the basics. It's about baby's nutrition - not like it's some additional detail that doesn't matter.
They should at least have a system where someone is visited at home (We get a midwife visit the day after we go home). But if you went home on Sunday and gave birth on Friday those 2-3 days would have been pretty crucial.

[sandraorion]

Yes, and I think that's where the fall out really happened. The nurses tried to couch me, but they really didn't know too much.

[Nish :)]

Hmmm Sandra ...

I should double check if my LC at the hospital has 'buisness hours' too!   

I've been so busy reading and keeping up with the Pregnancy and Childbirth thread that I didn't think to check here regarding my concerns with breastfeeding.  I'm feeling better about things now thanks to all you ladies 

I think I'm better prepared mentally this time around and will make sure that I push to feed right away and often in those first few days ... Helen I agree with you ... no one really pushed me to get started with trying to feed and latch until late the second day and even then DS had already had been supplemented. 

But I will say that once they started discussing the whole bf process, they were almost too pushy and as things started to go 'not so well' I felt totally inadequate as a mom.  I'm determined to try and make it work this time around, but I think we all have to remember that regardless of how things turn out, our lo's will be fine and we're not 'bad moms' (now I feel better  )

Nish

[~Faye~]

Nish, you are 38 weeks already Blimey. Doesn't seem that long ago we were chatting on the TTC thread! Blimey that went fast!

I didn't ever have an LC with Shay. Don't think they had one in the hospital I gave birth? I was just shown by the MW's and then my HV. That was it. Didn't even think about getting help from elsewhere. Just had the typical thought of being a failure, even though I know I wasn't.

I wanted to thank you all. This thread has been tremendously helpful.

I want to echo that. It's made me feel less of a failure already, hope that just lasts.

Emma, so when you moving to lovely Exeter to help me BF? Been there lately? It's getting a whole new shopping area that is going to be great! The food court is fantastic already and it's not finished. Doesn't take much to enthrall us Devonshire's!

Faye

[~Faye~]

I just had a thought too. When Shay was born it was 3.05am. I didn't feed til about 4.30am I think. Not too sure if it was later, I was a bit drug addled. Would I really be able to feed whilst being stitched up? If I have another section?

Faye

[Nish :)]

I know what you mean about this one going fast Faye ... I can hardly believe we're already here ... officially started my maternity leave this week 

I read about Ziggy  but also this new one on the way and am thrilled for you    I'm also glad that things are going well despite your hospital visit!

I think I've read somewhere that if you can try and get baby to latch on in the first 1-2 hours is when they are most awake and alert too -- so hopefully regardless of a section, you can hopefully make it work and I guess you have to be clear as to what you want and expect. 

As for an LC, check with the hospital ahead of time and if not, I'm sure there are many in your area and on the upside, you have plenty of time to find one that you like and can work with   

And I echo Faye's thoughts Emma ... I may be in Canada, but you're more than welcome to stay at my house --- I guess I'll have to settle for the 'virtual you'    Thanks!

Nish

[Ennypen]

Emma, as always you are a darling xxxx Your words mean so much - you will never know. You are right.. as a new mom I didn't know.. and I clearly didn't get the best advice.
Next time.. it will be different.. and I wish I had you beside me to help me.. but I will have the next best thing I hope.. you on here xxxxxxx

Erin - thanks so much for the info xxx

Hugs to everyone else. xxx

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Nish, wereabouts in Canada are you?

[Samuel's mum]

People talk about feeding within the first hour ideally - babies are most receptive at that point. There should be provision for you to nurse on the delivery table (assuming you have an epidural and are alert and baby is). On arm may be attached to an IV and you'll be lying down but it's doable. Baby lies face down across your breasts and you just check their nose is clear. You'll need someone to help you position (obviously!). It could be before stitching or even during or just after.
kellymom says you really don't want to go longer than about 4 hours or you'll need to start pumping.

Presumably second time round it's likely to be elective and you'll have the option of being less drug addled. But if it was another emergency you just get to it as soon as you feel able.

Nish - you are right. We do what we can - but it helps to be prepared. Good Luck.

Stacy - We posted at the same time. Milk can only come in after baby - a specific set of conditions are needed that are triggered by hormones. Mothers who don't give birth and lactate for adoption will still need to mimic these conditions with hormone therapy and a pumping regime. After birth the delivery of the placenta results in a massive fall of oestrogen/ progesterone levels and this (plus the prolactin) triggers the very beginning of the transition to mature milk (colostrum having been around from about half way through the pregnancy but kept at low levels by the progesterone). Then after this phase the hormones shift in their 'control' and it becomes locally driven and based around milk removal i.e. sucking/ baby feeding. So technically the very very beginning of the mature milk process is triggered by the third stage of delivery but it really doesn't go anywhere without the milk removal.

More replies while I post. You guys are too sweet