4-month-old waking all night after sleeping through the night before EASY

[SarahMksm]

My little one used to be a great sleeper.  Yes, I know, "used to be," which Tracy says tells her something.  Anyway, before I started EASY, I fed her on demand, and after a rough first month (wouldn't sleep more than 2 hours at a time, and 2 hours was if we were lucky), she seemed to get the hang of nighttime sleep and was sleeping really well.  I'd put her to bed around 8pm, sometimes a bit earlier, she'd sleep 7 hours, sometimes 8-10, wake once, then sleep 'til 7 or 8am.  I was pretty irregular about naps... she'd get one at 8:30 if she was up at 7am, usually one around 11, another around 2.  Those were 45-minute naps.  Usually just gave her a nap when she seemed tired or fussy, but I wasn't trying to put her on a routine.

I started EASY right when she was about to turn three months old.  It worked well for several days.  She still wouldn't nap longer than 45 minutes, which left me unsure of how to follow the schedule, but she actually went one night when she slept for 12 hours straight!  I wasn't doing a dreamfeed or anything then.

Then she started waking at night.  More and more and more.  I think that it may have been a combination of a growth spurt, which I fed her for, and then she got in the habit.  Or, possibly, it was because I was on a three-hour EASY and needed to go to a 3.5 or 4, even though she was only 3 months old, because she's stopped eating for very long.  I guess she's snacking.  (And she used to be a great eater.)

Now I don't know what to do.  She eats for five, maybe ten minutes at a time during the day, then wants to wake up every hour or two through the night to eat for five or ten minutes, too.  She eats hungrily for those five minutes, then she just bounces back to grin at me, and that's it.  Can't get her back on.  I've tried stretching out her feedings (not easy when she still won't regularly nap for very long), but even when she hasn't eaten for four hours she still only eats for five minutes.  I can't really forcefeed her, as I'm breastfeeding, although I've tried topping her off with a bottle.  I've tried not feeding her when she wakes up at night, or trying to get her to last until a certain time before I'll feed her, but she still wakes up, even if she's easy to resettle most of the time.

Any ideas?  I know she's snacking, I just don't know how to fix it.  Refuse to feed her one night, let her scream and starve, so that she'll eat in the morning?  It's hard even to try to make her hold off an hour or two when I'm desperate for sleep myself and I don't have anybody who can take some of the night wakings (my husband works full-time and goes to school full-time, he really can't be waking up all night on top of that).

[SarahMksm]

Oh, I should add my routine.  This routine is "theoretical," because I'm still working on getting my 45-minute napper to sleep longer.  Usually I stay with her for most of her nap to try to soothe her before she wakes up, with some limited success, especially in the afternoon.

E: 7am
A: 7:10am
S: 8:30am
E: 10:30am
A: 10:40am
S: 12:30pm
E: 2pm
A: 2:10pm
S: 3:30pm
E: 5:30pm
A: 5:40pm
Bath, bedtime routine: 6:30-7pm
Bedtime: 7-7:30pm (theoretically 7:30, but I start the routine earlier and get her to bed if she seems tired)

Dreamfeed: 10:30pm (I'd try for 11, but she wakes herself the first time at 10:30, so I try to beat her to the punch.  Or should I try to soothe her back down and then do the dreamfeed at 11?)

She usually wakes the first time at 12:45pm.  I'm hoping to try to wake a bit earlier and try wake to sleep, but the one night I've sorta tried it so far it didn't make a difference.  She then wakes frequently but irregularly through the night... usually something like 2, 3:30, 5, and 6.

She goes to sleep fairly easily with the shush/pat now that she's gotten used to it.  I've experimented with having lullabyes playing softly, doesn't make a difference.  She likes to suck on something when she's trying to go down...a pacifier if I can get her to accept it, or sometimes my hand.  She tried hers a few times, but then she stopped being willing to do that.  Should I persist?

[hil217]

Hi Sarah

I can't really help with the night time issue, but the feeding situation sounds very similar to my little 15week old man.  He has started pulling off after about 5-10minutes and is very easy distracted.  Has she always fed this way? i think it is common when they get to this age and are taking in more and can see better, and are easily distracted.  Have you tried feeding him in a 'boring' environment, i make sure that no one comes in room, TV / radio is off even try and bloke out shadows to avoid distraction, also i have now tried to avoid eye contact  ( this is the hardest especially when he is smiling his head off)  My little man is very nosey, but more seriously his weight gain had seriously slowed up, only gained 7oz in a month, since he stared fussing.  Also, although not waking in the night he had started waking earlier and earlier after sleeping through to 7 or 8am.  Also i know my HV talked about a slow milk  flow which can cause babies to fuss and pull off the breast< due to becoming frustrated after the let down flow stops< not 100% about it, but maybe worth looking into, it could be that she is not getting enough calories to get her through the night now.  Good luck

hil

[Colin Macs Mom]

Hi there 

You already know your main problem, which is the snacking. Hil has great advice about feeding in a boring environment, have you tried that?

Another thing though, oftentimes with EASY people will see more night wakes for a little while. We teach the LO that after they sleep, then they eat and then have A time. So, when feeding at night they naturally expect some A after that E. What you get is a phase were they need to learn that nighttime is S time, no A - essentially teaching the difference between day and night.

[SarahMksm]

Yes, I've tried feeding in a boring environment (dim, no music/TV, not talking, not even reading a book or doing anything that might make sound or distract her.  Even if she doesn't pull off the breast to smile at me, though, she eventually arches her back and pulls off the breast with a cry.  Makes me wonder if there's something else going on.  But she nurses very hungrily for about five minutes before she does that.  I'll try to put her back on the same breast, and she'll cry and turn away.  But if I put her on the other breast, she'll take it happily and do the same thing again.

If she's sleepy, she'll continue to suck past the five minute mark, although she's only sucking *hungrily* for about five minutes, after that she trails off until it eventually becomes flutter sleep-sucking.  Could she actually be emptying the breast in five minutes?  I don't know.  There was one day when my Dad had her (feeding her expressed milk from a bottle) and I pumped instead of the feeding, and I got seven ounces, so I think I have enough milk (or at least I did that day at that time).

Last night went pretty well (bed at seven, woke once at eight but went right back to sleep, dream feed at eleven--woke up, so I had to spend a few minutes soothing her back down), then slept 'til 3:20am.  Was actually quite good.  But then I couldn't get her to go down and stay down.  I'd get her down, leave, and she'd be back up ten minutes later.  Maybe I wasn't staying with her long enough, but I was so tired I kept dropping off against the crib rail and was worried I'd wake her.  She never did really go back down.  <sigh>  Hopefully tonight will start out the same and end better. 

[NiknLily]

Hi, I have no advice as such but just wanted to say that at about 3-3.5months DD feeds dropped to 3min each side sometimes 4, once in a blue moon 5. Just like your LO she would come off the boob and just lay there smiling at me I did the boring environment thing to reduce her desire to look about and take in her ever expanding world which can definitely be a problem and I also tried doing breast compressions when sucking started to slow to speed up the delivery of the next let down and I started laying down feeding her, the combination of these things did improve her feed times to maybe 15Min's tops
(thats both sides done), it took me a while to believe that she really was getting enough with the new shorter feed times.  To have piece of mind I also got her weighed every week and her growth didn't falter one bit even over the couple of weeks where I battled with 3min feeds.

Hope all goes well and her routine starts to settle in soon

[SarahMksm]

Thanks!  When she's been having these short feedings, I've been expressing milk and then giving it to her in a bottle.  Trying to top her off a bit.  Sometimes she'll take another ounce or two.  Also trying to space the feedings more so that she's really hungry.

Last night, after she ate everything that she would, I gave her a bottle of expressed milk and like an ounce of formula before putting her to bed.  I did the dream feed, as usual, but she'll never take much at that.  She was incredibly overtired and it took an hour to put her down (long story, but she was overtired after a day of bad naps, plus it was very hot in her room), but she ended up sleeping very well.  Didn't wake up before the dream feed, slept 'til 2-something, then again 'til 6:30.  So things are much improved!

[NiknLily]

Hi glad things went OK in the end, although if they go to sleep too overtired they do sometimes sleep like little logs to make up for it, but for the most part overtired at bedtime will lead to more night wakings. 

What you said about the night before and her not wanting to go back down, mirrors what Colin Macs Mom said about her beginning to associate the pattern of sleep eat awake.  It is horrible when you get so tired trying to get LO's to sleep, but your probably right that you just didn't stay with her long enough.  I had forgotten all about it but I do remember when DD was very young and we were just getting into the routine she did go through a spell of expecting A time in middle of night, but it didn't last long. As long as your consistant they soon cotton on to the fact that its eat and straight back to sleep.

A hot bedroom is a sure fire bet that DD will struggle getting to sleep, even when bedtime is at the perfect time and she has napped well through day and eaten plenty.  The only thing you can do is adjust her night clothes etc accordingly before putting her to bed.  I actually check the temp of room every night before getting her into PJ's to ensure she wont be too hot.  In fact last year in the heat wave when DD was same age as your LO she slept in just a nappy and was wrapped up in a muslin.  I always work on it being easier to add an extra layer of bed clothes if it cools down too much, than get them up and strip them off in the night because they are too hot.

Hope things continue to improve

[SarahMksm]

Would you believe that my dad actually suggested that she wasn't able to go back to sleep because she needed playtime in the middle of the night, and I should play with her?  Obviously he hasn't read the BW books. 

Last night after she fed at 3:30 she was up again at 5:30, and again I had trouble getting her back down.  I got her down, but it took longer than usual.  I stayed with her for a *long* time to make sure she was down, then finally went back to my bedroom.  And she woke up 15 minutes later.  <sigh>  So we eventually got up a bit early.

As for the bedroom being hot, I knew it was going to be a problem, but there wasn't anything I could do to make it cooler.  I tried her in just her diaper and the thin cotton swaddle, but even that was too hot.  I tried her in just her diaper, but then her arms and legs were all over the place and she couldn't calm down to sleep.  That's why I was having such problems.  I look forward to when I don't need to swaddle her, so that she can be in a diaper (if necessary) or light pjs instead of a diaper and swaddle, which doesn't look incredibly comfortable.

[NiknLily]

That is the only draw back to swaddling, if they are used to it you cant then unswaddle if they are too hot.  Do you have a fan in her room, although it wont cool her down having air movement will help her to feel more comfortable with the heat.  Remember if using a fan not to have it directed directly at them, if it's not too noisy and is cooler outside than inside you can position by an open window to help bring cooler air in.

If it gets ridiculously hot you can for a short time give a dose of infant parecetomol which lowers their internal temperature, my theory was if DD was cooler internally she would be able to cope with it being hotter around her.  Although its not a recommended use for infant paracetomol, when I told my Health Visitor what I had done, she said it was a very sensible idea and didn't see a problem with it.

[SarahMksm]

Well, we actually did manage to get an air conditioner in her room so that the temperature could be a bit controlled.  So I think things will be okay, heat-wise, now.  Which is good, because I really prefer to keep her in light pjs under the swaddle.  I'm hoping to wean her from the swaddle over the summer (she often has an arm out now), but I didn't really want to do it cold turkey in one day!

I'm not sure what parecetomol is, but I think I'd be nervous about giving her something that would lower her internal temperature, too sure I'd mess it up!  Is a Health Visitor like a pediatrician?

[NiknLily]

Paracetomol is one of the basic head ache tablet ingredients we take as adults, for babys you get it in a liquid form, in UK Calpol is the most popular.  Its given for fever & pain (teething included).  It doesn't drop the internal temperature hugely, just enough for when they get fevers etc, which they can get for no apparant reason or from immunisation injections. 

A health visitor is who takes over your LO's care after the midwives have done their bit and they are there until LO's go to school.  They aren't doctors they have a much more general knowledge than doctors not medical, they are just someone who you can contact if you have any queries at all about your LO, from a medical worry to how to help LO BF, they also care for the mums emotional state, keeping an eye out for post natal depression etc.  They also do things like weigh the baby and check growth etc.  So in essence although they may not be a doctor they are proffesionals you can trust to ask any question you have.  In this way they reduce the burden on the Doctors concerning general care of LO's.

[Rachd77]

Sarah- do we have the same baby? Your experience seems to be exactly the same as mine. I went to a lactation consultant today to see if she thought the feeding was the problem and causing Ellie to sleep badly but she basically told me to feed her if she seems hungry, Stop immediately if she starts doing empty suckling, and as long as she's doing plenty of wet nappies and seems fairly happy then she definitely isn't hungry!!!
What the solution is to the sleep issues then I just don't know but I hope for my own sanity I find out soon. 

[SarahMksm]

The thing is, I want her to eat enough during the day that she doesn't need to eat at night!  Last night she woke almost every hour.  I finally fed her around 4am, as she was too agitated to go to sleep, I think because she was hungry, but lasting a mere five hours seemed pretty pitiful.  Especially as she was up about four times in those five hours.  <sigh>