Oversupply or something else? (split from block nursing thread)

[marcimommy]

Hey ladies. Can I join in?

We are having the same problems with DS. He is actually sleeping pretty good though, so I can't complain. But he is very windy. I tried ColicEas and give him Mylicon drops before each feeding. I have been on a dairy free diet since he was 3 weeks old. He has gotten so much better lately but since I went back to work my milk production got screwed up and I am struggling with overproduction again. How old is your DH?
Oh, tell me about the doctors. We have had a lot of trips to his primary care doctor and finally to the GI about this issue. They never even run a test about it and dismissed us always with saying "It's just colic, there is nothing to do about it and just be patient, he will grow out of it" But is is so hard to see LO suffering so much and not be able to help!!!
Emma - his symptoms are as follows: greenish seedy poop, first sticky moucosy and then very watery, he struggles for hours sometimes for days to poop and gets very fussy and windy. Do you think there is anything else I can do for him right now or just wait patiently until he grows out of thisstage? 

[Samuel's mum]

Bethanys mum
You absolutely have the right to see another NHS doctor. In many countries getting a 'second opinion' is absolutely standard but I think we've just got out of the habit over here. I'm not sure how your GPs surgery is organised and whether there's another doctor there (but I suspect they might just see your notes and back up their mate). If you contact your private health insurance it's likely you could at least get access to a different doctor or try and arrange to see a paed - I would certainly ask the question. It's unlikely your current doctor will be on their 'list'. You could also phone NHS direct and ask them the procedure in your area for getting a 'second opinion'.

Yes, the weight gain thing does contradict the usual symptoms that are associated with this. You're also describing symptoms of a cow's milk protein problem (separate from a lactose issue as I'm sure you know). Remind me where we are on your dairy elimination diet (2 weeks being the time before you can be sure your system is dairy -free).

Marcimommy - the struggling to poop thing always looks awful but it is normal. It's standard to go several days between poos as I'm sure you know. We assume that pooing is an automatic reflex but actually it's a learned skill - you have to coordinate relaxing the anus with the spasms of the lower intestine and the 'relaxing' part doesn't come naturally. I think sometimes older babies feel more frustrated and we're also more aware of their frustration. You are describing symptoms of a foremilk imbalance due to oversupply. Have you looked at this? Are you still working?
There's more about oversupply here (e.g. block nursing) - Bethanys mummy can tell you more from her experience: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

[marcimommy]

Yeah, actually my milk production got messed up when I returned to work and I got engorged lately again. I could pump 9oz from one breast in 20 min 
How do I do block feeding if I pump? 

[marcimommy]

We have an appointment with GI for tomorrow as well. We hope to get a test for protein intolerance and lactose intolerance. DS has been doing sooooo bad lately that it totally disrupted his sleep and EASY routine    I hope to get some answers soon and be able to move on and improve his condition. I might just give up breastfeeding and put him on a hyperallergenic formula if that helps.
Emma - you said that according the symptoms you suspect a foremilk/hindmilk issue. How can you tell the difference between that and food sensitivity? You are so knowledgeable in this field, so thank you in advance for your support!!! 

[Samuel's mum]

The first thing to mention is that oversupply is a far far more common problem than food allergies/ reactions. And it's often mistaken for food allergies/ intolerance.

Your comment about overproduction problems got me thinking. Oversupply basically means that as your breast is producing so much milk a baby will fill up on a greater proportion of foremilk than his friend with the mother who doesn't have oversupply. So because foremilk has the vast majority of the lactose this causes increased wind/ digestive discomfort/ green poos (because the foremilk moves more quickly through the body). This symptoms can look like food intolerance issues.
But the main differences:
Oversupply is very likely to be accompanied by an overactive letdown so baby will often splutter at the breast/ bob off/ choke. They will also be more prone to spitting-up, hiccuping, gassiness.This wouldn't necessarily happen with food intolerance issues.
Weight gain can be very good (despite the foremilk imbalance they are still getting a lot of milk overall) or relatively poor (really only filling up on foremilk). But with food intolerance/allergy issues - weight gain is usually not great (rather than have the high weight gain option).
Mothers with oversupply pump extremely large amounts in comparison to their peers.
Mothers with oversupply have a slightly higher chance of blocked ducts/ mastitis.

But to be honest the similiarities are so great - there aren't a lot of differences!


If you have a known oversupply issue then it's more likely to be a foremilk imbalance rather than a food intolerance problem as food intolerance/ allergy is so rare in comparison. And the symptoms are very similiar (poos are mucousy and green, gas, digestive discomfort, fussiness).

On the breastfeeding helpline one of the first things we are taught to ask the mother of a colicky baby are a series of questions to rule out a foremilk imbalance e.g. do you do double-sided feeding and how do you make the decision to change sides? and various questions to rule out oversupply.

This article is quite useful:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/oversupply.html

[bethanys mummy]

Marcimommy

hi there

Did you get your test?? My doc has finally agreed to test but says they do a reducing substances / sugars one not the PH one. Which did you have for lactose intolerance- after all this hassle I need to make sure they do the right one and your healthcare advisors sound more knowledgable than mine!!

Have also PM'd you, hope this is ok