Please help us do this all the right way!!!

[marymustsleep]

DH and I are both committed to helping our 7.5 month old DD learn how to sleep. It has been a long road up to this point, but I really feel like BW is the method that we believe in and will stick with until it pays off. I know it will be hard work, but it can't possibly be as hard as what we have been going through as our DD has gone from being a good sleeper until about 4 months, to a terrible sleeper at several points since. I really appreciate this board and the fact that it might help us figure out how to fine tune the BW plan to really suit our needs.
I started PU/PD and the total BW plan last week and now DH is on board because he got the chance to read the book this weekend. So, I guess last night was our first "official" night.
I'll start with the schedule before I ask my questions because I see that it helps those of you with experience to see what our days and nights are like. I just wrapped up a week-long experiment with going to 2 naps that turned into a big disaster resulting in an overtired baby and grouchy mama, so here is our basic 3.5 hour EASY:
5:30 or 6:00 Wake
E- 7:00 Breastfeed
A
S- 8:00 or 8:30 Nap #1 (about 1.5 hours)
E- 10:00 Breakfast (oatmeal and fruit)
A
E- 11:00 Breastfeed
A
S- 12:00 Nap #2 (about 1.5 hours)
E- 1:30 Breastfeed
A
S- 3:30 Nap #3 (this one is tricky)
E- 4:30 Nurse
A
E- 5:30 Dinner (Yogurt and veggies)
A-
E- Cluster feed from about 6:30 until bedtime
S-7:30 Bedtime
Nights vary-- last night she had brief waking at 10 and 11, woke hungry at 2:30, was awake until 3:30, slept until 6:00; the night before that was AWFUL because she had an abnormal day and was exhausted-- woke every 45 minute to 2 hours all night and had a terrible time going back to sleep


So with all of that in mind, I have some questions:
1) What do I do about my child not being ready for only 2 naps, but not really needing 3 either? She fights that 3:30 nap. For the past two days she has slept on my chest. I wonder if it was later (like 4:00 or 4:30) and short (ie catnap) would it be better? Is that appropriate at this age? I think she is an exception because she gets up so early. She just seems to be an early riser-- like her daddy!

2) Her night wakings have really improved (KNOCK ON WOOD) since starting the PU/PD. She went from waking about 6 to 8 times a night (and nursing several times) to waking 3 times last night and only nursing once at 2:30. ***HOWEVER*** she has this problem where she is WIDE awake for some of her NW. This has been a problem for her whole life, not just during BW. Sometimes I wonder if she is getting too much sleep and that is causing it? Or sometimes I wonder if she is not getting enough sleep?

3) Since beginning this, it seems like DD has started really being sad about going down for a nap. Is this normal? Does it get better? Could it mean that I am doing something wrong?

I know I have more questions, but this would be a good start. I would LOVE some expert advice. Thanks so much!!!!!!
Sarah

[meltown]

1st off welcome to the boards and to BW.  I am glad you have found us!  I have 2 questions for you.  what happened when you went to 2 naps?  and how long did you try it?  it is ok if your DD isn't ready for it.  some do it early some later.  I wonder what happened though because it does sound like something needs to be tweeked in your routine to get her to sleep better at night.  at this point I am thinking drop the cat nap.  I would do this gradually though.  I would move the 2 earlier naps just a bit earlier and then move bed time a little earlier. then as she gets more ready for it you can move things back where they need to be.  This should help with the overtiredness. 

my other question is what do you mean sad?  do you have a wind down routine?  if you do what is it?

[marymustsleep]

Thanks so much for the response!

what happened when you went to 2 naps?  and how long did you try it?
When we went to 2 naps, I felt like the days and nights were totally out of whack in terms of her mood during the day and her ability to sleep for longer stretches at night. I think we ended up trying it for a week, and I'm willing to go back and stick with it if you are sure that is a good idea. What would a good schedule be then?

I would move the 2 earlier naps just a bit earlier and then move bed time a little earlier.
Did you mean move the naps later and bedtime earlier? I don't think we can move up her first nap any earlier.

my other question is what do you mean sad?  do you have a wind down routine?  if you do what is it?
I mean that as soon as we start getting ready for a nap she starts bawling. She used to kind of just snuggle into me and I would rock her to sleep. Now our routine is, we stop playing, I say, "Ready for a nap? It's time to take a nap." We head up the stairs, I pick up her lovey, (this is point when the crying starts), turn on the lullaby cd, and we sit in the rocker until I can convince her to calm down. I hold her, pat her, shush her, and just kind of let her cry until she starts getting drowsy. Then we move to the crib and start the real shush/pat and PU/PD.

Is it possible to just do BW at night and keep naps how they were, with rocking all the way to sleep? Or is that a terrible idea?

I wanted to also give you more details about the wide awake times during the night-- each night is a little different, but last night was a good example. She nurses once, and this used to be a very easy waking because she would just nurse herself back to sleep. But now she'll eat, seem like she is drowsy, I put her down on the crib mattress and she is ready to go! Last night I felt like I handled it well-- I tried to pat her for a while but she wasn't interested in going to sleep and wasn't crying, so I just sat in the rocker while she laid/sat/moved around in her crib. She wasn't upset at all. After a while I got up to go to the bathroom and she started to fuss as soon as I was gone. When I got back, I did the shush pat. (It had been about 20 or 30 min at this point.) It worked and she never got upset-- that's a nice change. Other nights she will just cry and cry and take an hour or more to get back to sleep.

DD is so happy at bedtime, she almost smiles as we go through the whole thing. Like she is relieved and relaxed by it. We have a great nighttime thing, so I don't have a problem sticking with it. I am just confused by how to do the naps best, and how to respond to her waking up and having a hard time settling back down.

Thanks again!
Sarah

[meltown]

yes, I did mean naps a little later.  I think you should try it again for just a few days and adjust the schedual just a bit.  She may not be 100% ready for the cat nap to stop but I think she is ready for less sleep so moving the bed time up just a bit will fix that.  As for her crying, What is deciding it is time to go to sleep, you or her?  is it because she is yawning?  after you get her to sleep how long does she sleep?  I am thinking this will all work out as we fiddle witht he routine a bit.

[marymustsleep]

When she starts showing signs-- yawn, rub of eyes, etc. I am able to tell when she is tired. This morning I started early for her nap, in hopes that catching it early would help, but she howled and now she is in her crib standing up and babbling.
What should I do to start naps?
Help! I am feeling super frustrated! And DH had to deal with a long wake up at 1:30 last night and I think it wore him down. When she is wide awake and trying to scoot all over the place, do we hold her down and pat her? How do we know when to begin shush pat and PU/PD? Is PU/PD only for when they are really all-out crying? And is shush-pat only for when they are upset? It seems weird to put a "firm hand" on her back to hold her in place for patting. (She's a belly sleeper.)
Ugh.
Sarah

[meltown]

if she isn't crying just leave her in her crib to play.  that is ok.  you don't have to be with her every moment she is awake.  I would move the nap back just a few minutes.  like see the yawn and then wait for 5 min then go put her down.  see what happens.  I know this can be frustrating.  we are here for you.

[marymustsleep]

Okay, I have drafted up a new schedule. I'll post it on the EASY board after this, but wanted to get your opinion.
(I want to find a schedule and stick with it so that we can get the consistency going for us.)

6:00 wake and quiet play in crib
7:00 nurse then play
8:00 breakfast then play
9:00 nap (1.5 hours)
10:30 nurse then play
12:30 nurse (eventually this will be lunch)
12:45 quiet play
1:00 to 1:30 nap--this is where I might have to slowly help her adjust
2:30 or 3:00 nurse then play
4:30 nurse
5:30 dinner
6:30 bedtime ritual
7:00 in bed for the night

I hope to start using this tomorrow. Let me know what you think! Thanks so much!

[meltown]

I think it looks great!!!  let us know how it goes!

[marymustsleep]

Okay, you have been a tremendous help. I feel like DH and I are really gaining confidence with all of it. Plus, we are seeing it work, so that is a good incentive.
Last night she went to bed at 7, had a quick wake up at 10, then slept until 1:30 and didn't wake up until 5:15. She didn't eat all night! Wow!
So today we're on the new schedule and it seems to be suiting her just fine. I'll be interested to see if she makes it to her bedtime.  It's so interesting-- she just woke up at 2:32 after going to sleep just after 1:00-- it's like she knows the schedule I made for her! 
I know that we'll see some setbacks, but I hope this means we're on the right page!
Sarah

[meltown]

If you need to move bedtime around a bit if she is too tired that is ok.  just stick with the 2 naps thing so when you can move bed time back it all works out.  Good tio hear things ar egtting better!  keep us updated!