dd taking an hour to fall asleep at bt

[HenaV]

Hey hon,

I'm sorry things are not getting better. Given pushing out isn't something your LO can handle then maybe capping further is the option to try. R seem to decrease in SNs as she's gotten older and where there is a deficit in the day she makes up for it at night.

Maybe worth a shot in the absence of any other ideas or things working?

H

[Aishi]

Ok its something i haven't tried so I'll give it a go. So if I cap nap at 1h45 min in theory she should be tired enough to fall asleep quicker at BT and sleep better during the night right?

So today

Wu 6.50
Nap 1-2.45

What time should i pd for BT given its taking her an hour to fall asleep ATM?

[jessmum46]

7pm ish?  Just guessing though as I wouldn't ever put J down 'planning' for her to take an hour to fall asleep - she'd get ridiculously frustrated (as would I)!  Sounds like your DD will happily just go to sleep when she's ready though

Yes the theory of capping is that she should be more tired and fall asleep more easily at BT.  Don't expect miracles on day 1 though!

[kaipooi]

Just for your information, Jr started sleeping longer on the 2nd night when he started doing 1hr45 naps. And then on the 4th night, he crashed and did 12 hours. That was yesterday and was a bit UT for nap, then short nap and only a 10.5hr night. I guess it's his body adjusting to the new times... maybe you will see the same with DD...

As for DD having multiple wakes at night, Jr does not wake up and cry, but I can see in the monitor that he is very restless. Sometimes his eyes are open a little but then he turns and goes back to sleep again. If I did not have a video monitor, I would not even have known. I am guessing that this is normal too.

[Aishi]

This is sooooo frustrating. I'm really beginning to lose my patience with her

Nap was 1-2.35 she woke herself. I pd for BT at 6.45 and she's still singing away after a 1.5h nap. Wth???! Why doesn't she follow any of the rules?

[kaipooi]

Did she wake happy and chatty from her nap?

Jr did a 1hr20 nap 2 days ago, woke up happy and chatty and then a 5hr activity after before he fell finally asleep. And that included a 30 minute play in an indoor park and running around the mall.

[Aishi]

No she was grumpy

She did 8-5.50 night on a 1.5h nap. How can that not be an ot night?!

[kaipooi]

Oh dear... would you want to keep trying 1.5hr naps and max 13hr days for another 2 days? Worse case is that she will crash, sleep and recover from her OT so you can start again after... it is hard to tell from just one day if the routine can work or not, even if it looks like it is not working.

With Jr and routine change, he does get OT in the first one or two days and then he kinda gets used to it and stabilises. His night then lengthens again. I let him sleep 2hr15 yesterday afternoon as he had such an exhausting morning at the playgym, and he ended up with a 10hr15 night. He really just can't do more than 12hr45 total sleep anymore. If I let him nap, he will shorten his night. If he short naps, he will not tack on the first night, but accumulate and tack on maybe the 2nd or 3rd night.

This is why, I suggest trying for 3 days to see if she tacks on to her night in the next few days.

[Aishi]

It just doesnt feel right. I know everyone is saying her sleep needs may have dropped but she doesn't seem happy on a short nap or a short night. I guess I may as well give it a few days but I know she's just going to get more ot :-/

[jessmum46]

Hun nobody's forcing you to try anything you're uncomfortable with.  Even if it feels like you don't, you do know her best and we're all just making suggestions based on what we can see on paper and our own experience.  If you can think of something else to try by all means do .  We'll be here to hold hands.

I do agree with kaipooi that trying to analyse just one day isn't really worthwhile though - of course she'll be grumpier after a short night or a short nap.  But sometimes you have to go there first to make the change that LO needs.  So just as an example, say a 6 month old is still on a 'standard' 4h EASY but is EW at 5am.  What would you suggest to do?  You'd say to push A times and work towards dropping the catnap.  In the short term LO would likely get really tired and grumpy, probably short nap and have some NWs.  But the end goal would be two proper naps and a night returned to a good length.  Does that kind of make sense?

The other thing (I'm sure I've said it before) is try not to be too scared of OT.  I know that's hard . But there's only so far it can get you know?  It's not like she's sleeping well at the moment and you're worried about messing it up?  I mean, if you've already got NWs and EWs what is there to lose? 

Have you ever considered at least fixing BT, even if you stick with A time to nap?  I know you said you feel that you've been chasing the elusive pm A time for forever - radical thought but perhaps there isn't one?  BT here is always 6.30-7pm, and it's a rare occasion now that we have too much messing regardless of nap or not. 

I'm saying all this with total sympathy and wishing I could fix it.  Honestly I don't have the worlds best sleeper at the moment either, we are deep into nap-dropping and yesterday had a 13h NND after 4 previous NNDs . Not your problem though!  Just wanted to say I do share the frustration but I know eventually it will settle down.

(((Hugs))) for today x

[Aishi]

Thanks katherine . I do appreciate what you're saying but its hard not to be scared of the ot when i have an almost four year old still nw and pretty much always ew. It doesn't bode well for the future does it? But I hear you and as frustrating as it is I will stick to the shorter nap and sew what happens. If she doesn't setttle then i will try set bt and see how that works out...

Thanks hon. I'm sorry you have your own sleep shenaningans especially with another lo on the way! i would offer advice but as u know I don't seem to have a clue with either one of mine!

[kaipooi]

Oh hugs to you Aishi...

If this helps at all... we have kinda merged set and A time with Jr.

* Naps no earlier than 2pm, or 6hr15-6hr30 morning A time. Nap to end by latest 16:30, unless not feeling well. Usually he is done by 16:15.
* Bedtime no earlier than 8:45pm (on really bad nap days), usually set between 9-9:30pm.
* Wake up usually between 7:45-8:15am.

On days when I let him nap longer, it has always backfired. He would do a 9.5-10hr night, and then another long nap, and the cycle continues until day 3 when he gets sooo OT and does a short nap of 1hr20 and crash at night for 12hrs.

[HenaV]

Hey hon,

Bigs (((hugs))))

I know you're that the OT really worries you and you know it's always been my fear with R as she is nigh on impossible when OT. She is nearly 3 now and I had to bite the bullet and ride the OT out for a few WEEKS! I know I can hear your sharp intake of breath. I was getting to the stage where she'd sleep 12h in 24 Jo matter what I did. So initially I gradually cut the nap to 1hour. She's a grump when she's woken and doesn't want to get up, but I have something ready to watch on TV and a snack and we have some snuggle time on the sofa which is lovely and means that I'm not constantly trying to keep her awake in her bd causing her to become upset because she's still tired (thanks Sara, great tip!) BT is 7pm, always has been unless she's super tired then I'll put her to be anytime between 6.30-7pm.

R also has a gro-clock which enforces when WU is.

It's taken weeks quite literally, and I hope it's not all going to go wrong now I've posted this but her days looks something like this now:

WU:6.30-7am
Nap: 2.30-3.30
BT: 7pm (usually alseep within 15m)

I had worked to 2pm for the nap (from 1.30) and it took a while. She was then doing 11h at night.

I find also I need to get her out and doing something active now each day else she has so much pent up energy she can't sleep properly.

As previously posted, there's no pressure on you to do or try anything suggested. I just it may help
You to see what R was up to given her sleep needs and tendency to get OT sounds very similiar to your LO.

Here to hold your hand all the way hon x. 

[Aishi]

Thanks ladies. Kaipooi you're ds sounds similar in terms of morning a time being quite short at 28 Mo. So are you capping nap at 2/2.25 h and keeping to a 13h day?

I've been re reading through my thread and I think that you may be right about pushing out am a a bit more. Could it be that by keeping am a a only 6h ish and capping nap at 1.5/1.75, the short am a is overriding the short nap and still causing ut at BT iykwim? I know you said one day isn't enough to make a judgement on this but thinking back over the last few weeks she has had shorter naps of 1.5h which i thought were ot so pulled a time back to 6h but then all the bt nonsense got worse. Does this make sense to anyone? Lol

So this is what I've done for today

Wu 6
Am a 6.5h

Nap 12.30. Should I also cap nap at 1.75h or keep it at 2h since I've increased am a time?
Bt aim for 7 asleep if this works I'll try setting bt at 7.

Is this routine age appropriate? What are your thoughts on nap capping and increasing am a? She went down for nap easily with no ot behaviour....

[jessmum46]

When I've pushed nap later I've generally woken at same time so effectively capped as well.  Not saying that's always the right answer, but to keep to a 13h day with a 6.5h am A and 2h nap she's only got 4.5h pm A time which may be too short