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SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: Shiv52 on April 20, 2013, 14:36:28 pm
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Carried on from here:
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition? Thread #24
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Tweetie, I didn't sleep train until 8 months and I always rocked my DS to sleep for naps and at BT. It wasn't much of an issue for me as he liked to be rocked and it took literally 5 mins and he was out (and I got some baby snuggles in the meantime ;)). As soon as he learned to crawl however, he refused to be rocked so I had no choice but to sleep train. I basically did WI/WU because having me in the room with him just got him distracted and worked up even more.
It is also REALLY important to understand what type of cry is "settling" and what you actually need to go in for. It took me a long time to understand that - I was so afraid of CIO that I wasn't actually allowing him to go to sleep on his own. The starting/stopping cry is just settling and you don't need to go in for that which was a huge revelation for me.
It took probably 3 days - I did it for every nap and at BT, and that was it :) Once you are committed to doing it you realize what an amazing thing independent sleep is, it really doesn't take as long as you'd expect. Sometimes if WI/WU wasn't working, I'd just sit in the rocking chair so he could see me and he'd cry and cry and cry, but eventually lie down and settle. I found that physically touching him was too distracting, and even if I sat beside the crib he'd stand up and pat me on the top of my head LOL.
Just be consistent and be dedicated and she will get it :)
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Thank you Lindsay I appreciate it :). Yesterday she did fell asleep by herself, no crying just fussing ; it took her around 50 minutes in total. I am ignoring her when she is trying to touch me but when she reaches the point where she is really worn out from all activity in the crib she needs my hand and she is squeezing it and squeezing. Today I plan to put her little later in the crib maybe it will take her shorter.
Regarding transition. We returned back to two naps- of course she woke up today at 5 am. ::) (I stopped to cap am nap - could not get longer pm nap ; just once in a while - after 2 weeks she was horrible OT - screaming few hours in the night plus cold and congested nose and coughing...) I tried to "make" her sleep till 5.30 am but did not work. I plan to cut pm nap today in order to keep 3.5 hr to bed and 13 hr day so we will see.
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Hi all!
DD is 9.5 months old so not quite at the 2-1 transition but close to it? She can handle a bit over 4 hrs for her second A after a good first nap but I would have to cap this nap to make a reasonable bed time. So at the moment I'm waking Lo at the hour mark for the first nap (after 3:45 A) and then putting her down for second nap alsp after 3:45A. She usually does a 1 hr nap pm. But her A Time will increase soon and just wondering what has worked for you at this stage?
If I keep the morning nap (because I am worried she won't take a good pm nap? ) do I give her the second nap after her full A (4:10) but then cut this one short to make for good bed time? or will a short nap after a long A make her really grumpy?Her last A is usually quite a bit shorter than the rest of the day at 3:30 or so.
Or is it preferable for LOs with the longest second A to do a shorter am nap and a longer pm nap instead? If so how short should I make the am nap? Really scared of making it too short? And with a capped am nap do I still aim to push out the A time or should I let it be an UT nap since I will be capping anyway?
Thanks!
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Well... He's sick.. So all tweaking is now out. I did do the short AM CN and woke him at 40min he just seemed so tired from not feeling well I felt bad. But he was a happy kid when I woke him up. Put him down 2.5hrs later. He protested a lot but was obviously tired so I think he was just not understanding why i was putting him down as he'd already slept and it was off routine. But a little apop and he was out. Slept 1.5hrs to the minute, and woke on his own. Put him down 4.5hrs later (tried for 4 but he was having none of it :) ). So BT was 6:30 (after a 5:45am wake up), he woke at 3:50 but I think this was cough/cold related. Rocked him back to sleep, asleep by 4:15. Woke at 5:20, rocked to sleep for 25min but he was up after that. Still tired but just wouldn't go back to sleep, so another wake up of 5:45. It wouldn't be so bad if I haven't been up since 3:50 oy.
Songbird, it's totally up to you what you think is going to work best. My LO is 11 months and I just tried the capped AM nap for the first time yesterday as he was just taking such glorious 2hr+ naps and we were doing EBT, but OT started to creep in and he stopped tacking on his nights and so we tried it yesterday. I'll let you know how it goes after he's over his cold.
As for the Full A after the first nap it's up to you. If you are going to Cap the nap under a full sleep cycle (45min) than you can do a shorter A as it's going to be an UT nap anyway. It also depends how much A he needs before BT. My LO when he was taking his CN liked a long AM a of 4.5hrs, then a Long AM nap a shorter A of 3.5hrs capped nap of 30min and then a shorter A about 2-2.5hrs to BT. Some LO's do much better with a long PM nap and Long A before BT so the capped AM nap is good. What we did yesterday (my lo is older than yours) was
W: 5:45
S: 9:15-9:45 so it was an UT nap as it was only an A of 3.5hrs in the AM but that's ok
S: 12:25-2:05 woke on his own
S: 6:30
I used to do this when he was taking a CN.
W: 6:30
S: 11-1
S:4:30-5
S:7:30
For your LO since he's younger you can still cap the nap but leave it a bit longer like an Hr or so if that's what works for you? Does this makes sense, sorry if it's jumbled.
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Wecome Songbird :) Have you read the 2-1 transition links? They have come info about the two options (short am nap or short pm nap)
10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps
I would only cap one of the naps, as I found with my LO that OT crept in very quickly if I ever capped both. So either let her sleep as long as she likes in the morning and cap the pm for a reasonable bedtime, or cap the am, do a shorter second A and a long pm nap. There's no right or wrong way to do it - think about whether your LO generally seems to prefer her morning or afternoon nap; what suits your daily routine better (for any other commitments etc) and whether your LO is prone to EWs (which can often be helped by a capped am nap). :)
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Well he will on his own after 38 min. Coughing. Is 2.5hrs an ok A before the next nap if he's OT
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Skadiver - sorry to her your DS is sick. Pay attention not to end up with built OT - we had that last whole week after DD was sick (same thing bad coughing and congested nose) and I was cutting am nap - screaming nights - 2 hr in average - horrible...
You are talking about A time after am nap? I was told 2.5 hr is maximum (after 30 min nap) so just go for it. My lady would be awake for 3 hr or even longer and we payed for that...
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Thanks we did 2.5hrs and he slept 1hr 40min but fitfully. :/ poor guy.
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Ben is waking himself up coughing too, bah! Poor wee ones :(
So, I think tomorrow I'm going to give the short am/long pm another whirl. What do you ladies suggest for the timing - he's usually up around 5:50am these days. Do I do a full A and then the short nap? Would something like this work?
WU 5:50
Nap 9:30 - 10:15
A
Nap 1pm - hopefully 3 or 3:30
BT 7pm
I am just worried because the last time I tried this he only did 1.20hr for his PM nap and we hit OT immediately and he does NOT do well with EBTs.
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So this is what I've done past 2 days. Now he still is waking early but I think that's do to not feeling well and i'm going to stick with it for now to see if after his cold is gone he'll fix the EW.
W: 5:45
S: 3.5hrs later (he normally does a 4.5hr A but I'm doing a short nap so I want to make sure he's UT for it) been doing between 30-40min depending how he settles. So today was 9:15-9:55
Then I do an A of 2.5hrs I've heard anything more than that will make them OT after a short CN. If you think about it he'll have been up from 5:45-the second nap around 6.5hrs with only 30min nap. I wouldn't want to do more than that.
S: 12:25 till whenever. Yesterday he woke at 1.5hr on the dot. Today he did 1hr 40min. Honestly 1hr20min I don't think is non-restorative if he has that CN, it may be he's just coming out of his sleep cycle and light sleeping and something wakes him and he can't drift back off? But I've been told that 1hr20min isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I guess it depends on the A you had before.
Then Sleep 4-4.5hrs later after a good nap. AFter a short nap I would cut that A back significantly and do EBT. I know EBT doesn't work for you but that's the only thing I can suggest if he short naps. :/ Maybe just a little early. So today he woke at 2:15. I will put to bed between 6:15-6:30. (a little early because of his cold)
So long story short
1st A 3.5hrs
CN 30-40min
2nd A 2.5hrs
Nap Hopefully 1.5+
Bed 4-4.5hrs after wake up to keep under 13hr day.
Hope this helps.
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Okay, so 1pm might be too late for the PM nap, might need to pull it a bit earlier.
Skadiver, have you tried resettling that 1.20hr PM nap? I know when we were doing it before Ben woke up a few times at the 1.20hr point, but I was able to resettle him and he'd sleep another 40mins. I think like you said it might be a sleep cycle thing.
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I do sometimes but most of the time he's up for good. He just isn't tired enough to keep sleeping. I've heard once they go to one nap re-settling gets easier as they know this is it for them if they wake. My LO has never been good with me helping him settle. He'll ether do it himself or not at all. :) Seems like that might just be a sign of things to come.. "i can do it"...
Something funny: http://www.wetpaint.com/moms/video/girl-tells-dad-worry-about-yourself
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..Skadiver I am glad if new "program" could work ;D
We have mess again, up from - 9.30-11 pm - very tired, crying, bunch of APOP finally co-sleeping ::), it worked till 3 am and we are again awake, lots of APOP nothing works so for now she is ok in her crib and "edgy". I know again we end up with built OT, last two days EASY is all over the place because of sleep training, in short first A almost 5 hr (by day before yesterday 4 hr), S 1.15 hr, A 4 hr (usually the most 3.5 hr), S 20 min (I cap so I could put her in bed in normal hours) A 3.10 hr and finally BT - no way she would fall a sleep sooner. Whole day was 14 hr :'(. What to do, give up from sleep training and wait to pass first that transition? I am stuck completely...
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Tweetie, I would do 1 or 2 days of catch up in the hopes of levelling out that OT. I've had to do it a few times during this transition because my LO does not handle OT at all. It might make your days long, but maybe a day or 2 of not capping any naps and not really paying attention to A times (just putting her down when she's tired) might help. The sleep training is a process, but she will get it, and it will get easier :)
We are in a bit of an OT mess ourselves, so I'm not sure my plan of doing the short am/long pm nap tomorrow is a good one ??? Both yesterday and today he only did 1.20hr in the AM and 30mins (clearly OT as he was a BEAR after waking both days), so it's starting to accumulate. And, DH and I had a banquet to go to tonight so we picked up up from Nana & Grandpa's late and he wasn't in bed until after 8pm. Probably an EW tomorrow which will just be FANTASTIC on this little sleep. Groan. Hate the 2 -1!
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Thank you very much Lindsay I just posted my issue on the nap board ;D. When I was writing there I decided in my mind to stick with sleep training just I am worried to let her sleep afternoon - I have post traumatic syndrome ;D from her good afternoon naps - 5 months of 2-4 hr long NW - I do not want to go back there (maybe 14 days in those 5 months she slept without these few hours parties). However I do not think I do have a choice - I was also thinking about just let her sleep but fear is a fear :P ;D
Regarding your transition - maybe to give him two days to recuperate and then start with the plan? I am not sure about that
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Sooooo I don't think the capped am nap is working. This is day 3 and its 4am and he is up again rolling around chatting. Iam so tired. What do I do?. He also slept so fitfully because of his cough. So do I just go back to pushing out his naps? I am so sleep deprived at this point my eyes are bloodshot. I have finals coming up.
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Skadiver I understand you completely. When I was changing routine (3-2 or long NW, now cutting am nap) I would stick it at least one week to see improvement, realized it took much longer to get final results with her. Only with cutting am nap I got disaster otherwise after a week so return back - even though I do not know to what? :Again slepless nights :) It is vicious cycle
Poor thing, I am happy (or lucky) I am on maternity leave otherwise I really do not know how I would be able to function, not mentioning studying or doing something where my brain should respond in normal way.
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I think my brain is in survival mode. Thinks about nothing but eat and sleep. Unfortunetely not me but .liams. do you guys feel like that? Sometimes I feel like I am not enjoying him as much because I am constantly obsessing over his eating or sleeping I wish I (and he) were more go with the flow. He makes me laugh though that's for sure. :) I'll give it the full week and wait till after this cold to change anything anyway.
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This is normal Skadiver :-* especially you need to do some other things except dealing with your son. I am dealing just with DD and when both of us were sick I was really very tired and no patience no strength at all. Now it is better because I am just dealing with her but not ideal as I would love to ;D.
I am stressed because of sleeping (we were talking about that) and schedule like I am obsessed. However I realized ten thousands times that is she has routine and I pay attention on the clock I have a happy child during the day and we sleep better. Even DH (always saying I am complicating, she is like that because I am so burden with sleeping) started to realize it is not exactly like that - in the other words he is learning what spirited kid means. Why are you worried because of eating? He will eat eventually. After 6 months of trying to feed her on the thousand different ways she is officially eating from the last week :). I do not need to make performance to get few bites ;D. She does not eat huge amounts but for me is the most important she is eating. Do not worry it will come. I realized she likes formula with cereals for dinner the best (this I started to give her last week for dinner, convinced she will not accept dinner since she did not accept lunch well - I was wrong) and obviously she will like more milky stuff..
Today EASY
WU 6.40
A 4.21 hr
S 2.30 hr (1.30 pm) :o - result of long NW's
obviously I will need to make EBT - who knows how that will look like :P
Today she needed 30 min to fall asleep but mornings are always the easiest.
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I was naive - of course ::) tried to put her down for nap aiming 5 pm to sleep - 35 minutes of sleep training - nothing. Took her out, gave her dinner, DH changed diaper (gave up from the bath), returned her to the crib. God 45 minutes and finally she fell asleep. No EBT regular one at 6.25 pm, I am exhausted definitely not ready for the night :'(. 4th day of the training - maybe I am expecting too much but do not see any progress :-[
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Well he woke from his AM nap happy as a clam at 40min. :/ not sure what that means, but could have been the cough that woke him. Put him down 2.5hrs later, out like a light, hasn't coughed or moved in 2hrs he is dead to the world. I'm just letting him go as he obviously needs to catch up. Hopefully won't impact BT too much.
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That is good Skadiver. I am seriously thinking to cap am nap again today and give a try once more. As I said before I did not have EW, fight against pm nap or BT just too short pm nap.
Our night was great in comparison with the last ten days - 00.10 am feeding, woke up around 3.30 am, I replugged paci, hold her for the hand around 15 minutes and she fell asleep. Woke up 5.40 am. It is interesting that she knows how to replug paci but never does that in the night by herself she opens her mouths and wait and cry ::).
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Day one (trial #2, God help us ;D) - am nap capped after 30 min.
Surprise surprise or just to let me believe sleep training started to work - I put her down 18 minutes before aiming am nap and she fell asleep in less than 5 min :o I am afraid I am afraid of revenge ;D
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So I woke him at 3 after sleeping 2.5hrs BT at 7 he was exhausted. But here we are 4:45 and he's rolling around. I woke at 12:30am to my Dh stupid phone took me 2+ hrs to get back to sleep. This stinks.
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Skadiver maybe to check with somebody who has more experience but I was told if am nap was capped pm nap - let them sleep as much as they want. Obviously A time before bed was too long for him.
Now I checked ;D sorry I noticed he woke himself but still....
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Am nap was capped in a sense but after 2hrs its not considered capping to wake them is what i have been told. Had to wake him to preserve BT. He put himself back to sleep woke at 5:50 same time as last few mornings. U kow its not techncally an EW as its more than a 10 hr night but its rough..
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I got the point :). I did not think he could manage so long before BT - 4 hr is a lot :).
I know about that technical part of EW :'(. You know it is interesting that it is said that 13 hr day is maximum otherwise they will get OT and when you have 10 hr night it is actually 14 hr day - I know I am phylosopher and science is very close to me so I need to analyze everything :-[ :)
Regarding our sleep training and A time. It took her 1 hr! God when I am doing PD (that was almost fight today :o) she is getting like overstimulated and laughing (hysterical, tired of course), holding crib fence so tight ufff very tyring ::). So after 30 min am nap we had 3.42 hr A time :P. I know that is not good... we will see how long she will sleep.
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Tweetie, I forget but I think you said that you had a post somewhere else helping you with the independent sleep? What do those ladies suggest?
Skadiver, we are getting those glorious EWs too. Today I am trying short am/long pm again...I am so nervous about it! What is your timing on everything? He woke at 5:45am today and I just put him down for his capped AM nap at 9am (he's not asleep yet, I can hear him thumping up there). I am not entirely convinced he's UT :-\ With his cold he's just generally been OT for the last week. I am planning on letting him do 45mins and then I will attempt a 12:30pm nap I guess? Seems SO early! He also has his 1yr appt at 11:15am which I am sure is going to make everything really rushed when we get home from the doctor. Sigh...please let this work!
Our saving grace is he is still STTN. Thank heavens.
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Oh he can do 4.5hrs A after a restorative nap. :) I think he is just under the weather. He woke happ. always does. He has been doing this EW since he was like 3 months old.
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Lindsay just remember that won't be a CN. That's restorstive. A CN would be like 40 min. I eould stick with that. We do
W.5:45
S:9:15-945 or 9:55 depending how tired he seemed.
S: 12:30 till whenever. Only been doing it for 3 days on #4 now. Past three days itz was 1.5hrs, 1hr 40min and 2.5hrs (i had to wake him. Then BT is 4-4.5hrs after. Depending how tired he is.
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Lindsay just remember that won't be a CN. That's restorstive. A CN would be like 40 min.
Ah! Oh no...too late now, LOL. We did 9:10 - 9:55 - it might be okay for today, because by the time we get home from the doctor, I feed him lunch, and get him down for the PM nap we will probably be a little over that 2.5hr second A time. Hopefully it doesn't affect us too much.
I am HOPING for maybe 12:30 - 2:30 and then a 6:30 BT.
We will stick with 40mins tomorrow :)
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Isnt it funny how 5 min can make a difference. Lol, it will be just fine as being at the doc will wear him out anyway. We have a GI apt for him too so I have to cut his PM nap shorter. :(
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Lindsay do not worry so and so each day will be different.
Second A time was 3.42 hr, S 1.45 hr and A 3.26 hr BT . Day was 13.5 hr but I hope this crazy A time will not punish me this night :P. This sleep training will destroy me. How long does it take in average?
I am getting nice answers - definitely not to give up on sleep training (same like you said). Regarding EASY and naps - they gave me nice suggestions but our problem is that I could never make her sleep if she was not ready (whatever that would be), Apop did not work or it would take forever. How could I convince now when she needs to fell asleep by herself? I need a recipe :)
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Ugh...how come every time I try this it goes horribly wrong!?
Doc was 20mins late for our appt so I had to rush home, rush to get Ben lunch, and got him down around 12:50pm and I think he probably fell asleep around 1pm. 35mins later, he was up...and HYSTERICAL. Like, crazy. He was so tired and I tried resettling him in his crib, but he just wouldn't lay still, so I tried rocking him. What a bad decision that was. He hates being rocked now and I have the scratches to prove it. And if he was hysterical before, there is nothing to describe this outburst. I gave up and tried to APOP a bit of a nap in the car, and that didn't work either. So...here we are, 3pm, and he only napped 1 x 45min and 1 x 35min.
I guess we are looking at an EBT, but I'm not holding my breath. Last time I tried that it took me 1.5hrs to get him down.
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Hello ladies, I've been reading your posts and thought I would join in with the 2-1 tranistion woes... hard work!
So things started to go wonky for us a few weeks ago, we were getting a good nap after 4 hrs A then doing a short CN, short last A then BT. Then the OT set in, so after some advice on the naps board last week we started a set capped nap of 30 mins at 9.45 and then 2nd nap after 3hrs A, worked for a few days then the OTness was back and we've had a very grumpy boy with NW's.
So today I tried a capped nap of 40 mins at 9.30 (as he was woken by DH getting up from work at 5.50!!) Then tried for 3hr A and he was asleep at 3hr 10 slept for 2hrs, he was still so tired and grumpy this afternoon even after 2hrs???!! so in bed for 6.05 and asleep by 6.15...
lets see what tonight has in store & even more interesting will be what time he wakes as he normally only does 11.5hr on a good night! Fingers crossed for some tacking on :) x
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Hi Lindsay. sorry that things ended up like that yesterday. I hope he got good sleep during night. Yesterday I was surprised that my lady was able to sleep 1.45 hr after she was awake for 3.42 hr.
Our night was as I supposed it will be because of these bad A times - woke up at 10.40 pm - I replugged paci; 11.40 pm I fed - it took her 1 hr to fell asleep (I did sleep training, I was sooo cool :D), around 3 am - paci, 3.45 am - she cryed but went back to sleep by herself fast.; 4.30 am - awake, could not go back to sleep I tried to hold my hand but did not work (she would always wake up from discomfort so early in the past and I am always worried because of silent reflux - not medicated). I did not do sleep training :-[ I ended up putting her in my bed (usually works only when she needs me, it does not work always) she calmed down, hold me for the hand and I assume she slept (I did ;D). WU 6.15 am - I am satisfied, falling apart, having my coffee but comforting myself everything is better than 1 or 2 hr screaming from OT. First thing what I said today - day 6th (sleep training) ;D - why do I have feeling that at certain time point I will stop to count days and write same things here ;D
Hi Johnnyha 65 welcome and join the club ;D.
Few weeks ago I did similar what you are doing - going from 30 min-45 min capping nap (I was advised like that) and A time in between 3 hr then I switched to 2.5 hr and it was better. BT would never be less than 2.5 hr, usually 3 hr. When my DD was so grumpy after having 2 hr pm nap I was advised to have A time maximum 2.5 hr, maybe to try that? Good luck :)
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I don't know what I am doing wrong!!!
This morning we did a 40min nap from 9:15 - 9:55 and then I put him down at 12:30 for his PM nap. It took him a good 20mins to fall asleep and he only slept 30mins. He was in complete hysterics when he woke - crying so hard he couldn't breathe. He woke at 1:20pm...we can't go from now until BT! I have no success with EBTs. I don't know what to do.
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Kindest this is my day exactly. He woke at 5:20 put him down at 9 woke at 9:05 stupid dogs, got him back to sleep from 9:10-9:50 put him down at 12:30.and he wailed at 1:10 crying. Tookvmw 20min to grt him back to sleep and it wasn't easy. I'm still sitting he rocking him. He seems so grumpy and tired since we started capping the AM nap.
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I tried resettling him in his crib because he won't let me rock him, and he just wouldn't go back down. So now he's up.
The problem is, when I try a long AM nap it is so all over the place...there is no consistency at all, which is why I want to try it this way. And he starts daycare in 2.5 weeks so I want him to be doing a long PM nap like the rest of the kids, and a morning CN.
Why oh why Skadiver, why is this happening to us!? LOL
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Lindsay (do call me siobhan :), I feel like we know each other well. :))... I wish I knew. He was doing AMAZING afternoon naps when we were doing a long AM A but he was still refusing CN in the pm and waking early but it was working as I could apop him back to sleep for an hour so I didn't mind. Now I can't rock him back to sleep 99% of the time so the AM waking were just that early, so I thought well might as well go for the short AM nap. It was working for about 3 days but he's till waking early. OY!!!!!
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Thanks for your advice! Its great reading your posts to get some ideas.
I tried capping the AM nap one day (well not capped but just didn't resetrtle when she woke up) after 3:40 A and she wouldn't take a self nap until 3:10 after her wake up. She slept for 1:20 only and was so grumpy the rest of the day! That night we had 8 Nws! Could be teething related but I thought maybe she was bit tired as well.
So yesterday I tried the other way around long Am nap but she only did 1:15 after 3:45 A. Then refused to sleep until 4hr10 second A By then it was 3:10pm so I tried to wake her at 4 but she was dead to the world. I didn't have the heart t I wake her so I left her until 4:15 then I woke her up. Last A before Bt was 3hrs10 asleep at 7:20. This morning she did an Ew and was up at 5.....
My question is, if I try the short AM nap do I still continue to push out the first A? Or just keep it at a set time (that's if she goes to sleep at all!) But wouldn't that lead to EW?
After a short AM nap (she did 35 minutes) she refused to sleep until 3:10 later, I have read that the self A after a capped nap should not be more than 2.5hrs? Any experience on what to do if she just wouldn't sleep any earlier? ?
She also starts childcare two days a week next week and I'm sure her naps will all be short yikes!!!
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You don't want to give a full A for the first nap because you want them to be UT - if you gave a full A and then a short nap she would be OT by the time the second nap came.
You are right, the second A should be around 2.5hrs later. Perhaps if you were doing a full A, CN, 2.5 A and she wouldn't settle it was because she was OT?
We are struggling with the short AM/long PM combo, so my advice doesn't go far because I can't seem to get it to work for me!
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Skadiver, Lindsay I feel for you :-*. How were nights? Your LO's sounds OT - poor things.
When I started to deal with horrible OT (I was capping nap at 30 min) I was advised to extend am nap to 45 min and if she was still very tired to put her 10-15 min earlier for pm nap (we did 2.5 hr A time). In addition to put her earlier in the bed if she looks very tired. I never continue with that part because she was so sick and combination of OT and cold destroyed us. Maybe to give a try?
Songbird I hope you will have more luck than we do :).
We had same NW as the night before - exact time points :o and at 4 am (I do not know was that discomfort or EW or the combination of both; it took her 1.15 hr to get back to sleep (I tried APOP for short and it did not work , I did sleep training she was better and just little fussing in comparison when I did APOP :o) and she slept till 7.05 am - I woke her up.
We do complete A time (4 hr) before am nap (no way I could put her to sleep UT), second A time is a problem. She is not tired at all after 2.5 hr, yesterday she fell asleep after 3.29 hr (it is connected with ST but definitely she gets tired around 3 hr not before). I am worried that OT will creep in because of that second A time....
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I don't know what to do. He is so not like himself, whiny grumpy always tires. It's just not like him at all. I honestly have no idea what to do. He woke at 3 ss, woke at 3:30 and tried but couldnt. I tried to settle in the crib but after 25min I just am too tired. After that gave meds and rocked from 4 to 4:20 hr wot till 4:40 and woke again. Left for a bit to ss, but couldn't. Here I am rocking once again, i can tell he is very tired as its the.only way he'd let me rock him. We are on day 7 of capped am nap, its not been fun.
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Poor things, both of you I send you a hug (I know it does not help but still :)). Is he still sick?
We have weird day ??? first A 4.25 hr - she was chatting in the crib, playing with feets and paci for 45 min before she fell asleep - but my hand should be always in the crib (my sholders and hands will kill me with half of sitting on my bed and half hanging over the crib ::)). She was not in the great mood after I woke her up (but not critical) so I put her in the crib after 2.30 hr (fear from OT) and she was sleeping within less than 10 minutes ???. I will see for how long she will sleep... hopefully not OT nap
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Siobhan, we had almost the exact same night. Woke at 3am and he couldn't ss, so I assisted, then he only slept for maybe 20mins and was up again. He couldn't ss so I rocked him (he actually let me!) and as soon as I put him in his crib he woke up. 5am and he was still awake. DH decided to take him for a drive because nothing we were doing was working. DH said he slept for a half hour in the car, and that was it.
This morning we had swimming lessons so I've only just gotten him down now, and it's 10am. I'm letting him sleep for as along as he needs.
I don't know what to do either, and honestly...this just isn't worth it to me. It's not. I know when we have 2 naps our days are long, and no 2 days are the same...but he's not OT, and he STTN. Some days we would have long AM nap and a PM CN, some days we would have 2 x 1.20hr naps, it really could vary, but at least we weren't getting any NWs and he wasn't miserable. Our worst issue was the EW, and honestly at this point I'll take that over the nightmare we had last night.
So, I'm letting him sleep as long as he needs this morning and we'll do a CN this afternoon.
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I agree. This current situation is working (I use that term loosely) just to get me through the next 2 weeks of class The babysitter can never apop a cn in the afternoon so he was getting super tired. As soon as I'm out of school and home full time I'm going back to pushing out the A in the Am getting a long nap and ether CN or EBT as this is just not worth it. He's whiny, tired, miserable and I can't do it anymore.
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I am so sorry to hear how your LO's are OT. Definitely they need sleep poor things, I hope they will recover within next few days and you too at least little bit.
I am worried that we will end up the same (first time we did). I will let you know.
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Well yesterday went okay, did 3hr A capped nap for 40 mins & we went to a group, I was the one there will the grumpy whiney, clingy child :( carried on somehow and we did a of 3 hrs and he slept for 2hr 25 woke in the best mood ever so he must have been so tired, then 3hr A to BT! But then heard him wake at 3.50am having himself a little cot party, I'm guessed abit too much DTS and maybe UT at BT due to such a long nap? he was fine at his little party until 5.20am, all this time mummy is not enjoying the party >:( at which time he started getting upset , so I had to feed him & he slept until 7.10 and woke happy thankfully.
So today I thought we'd try the same again but maybe cap the 2nd nap at 2hrs if needs be first before I start reducing the 1st nap to 30 mins. We did first nap at 10-10.40, 2nd nap he was sleep by 1.45-3.30 BT and asleep 6.50 so fingers crossed no parties tonight!
OTness sucks big time I think sometimes you just have to do as you're already doing and let them sleep as along as they need, push the day out just until they catch up and the. Try again, it's all such a vicious circle though isn't it?
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Thanks Tweetie. Hayley, I would cap that second nap at 2hrs unless he seems OT at the first nap. This OT does stink majorly. :)
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This OT does stink majorly.
Understatement of the year LOL.
We just did a 1.5hr AM nap and a 40min car nap in the PM as we were on our way home from the city. Put him to bed about 6:45pm and he had 1 OT waking and settled himself about an hour ago. Hopefully he'll have a decent night and catch up a bit.
As soon as I'm out of school and home full time I'm going back to pushing out the A in the Am getting a long nap and ether CN or EBT as this is just not worth it.
I can't imagine being in school and dealing with this! I'm sure I'll be feeling that pain when I go back to work in 2 weeks. Oy!
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It's brutal. I have an internship 2 days a week, and class 2 nights a week. Next semester is worse. I'm so tired. I was up with him at 3:30, of course fell back asleep 10 min before he woke again.
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God Skadiver I really admire you.
Lindsay it is good he is sleeping, cross my fingers that night will be ok.
Johnnyha65 - we have similar problem (God it returned me back in the past long NW :'(). Just I am not sure is that is because of long pm nap (1.45 hr) - in her case. She has 5 months long NW background....But I will pay attention on that part
One waking at 11.30 pm I replugged paci (slept so tight that did not look at the watch and did not feed :-[) but obviously she was fine. First time I heard her at 1.15 am, but I fell asleep so I assume she resettled by herself, I heard her somewhere in the background one or two more times but she started to call me when she heard I am turning in the bed and that was 3.13 am. Then I fed and returned her back to crib (convinced she will fell asleep with full stomach and she was hungry, yeah right) - she was calm, no signs of discomfort, not chatty but not showing signs being tired. I need to admit that I put blinds so tight so you can not see absolutely anything in the room ;D. I ended up holding her for the hand probably for almost 2 hr or 1.5 hr - I do not know I fell asleep. We slept till 7.20 am and I woke her up. Now she is making mess with bills and the apartment looks like the bomb fall in but I need my coffee break :P. She is in very good mood.
What is good in the whole story that I got an idea to start to wean that one night feeding - she did not eat as she would be in the past and after WU just took few sips
P.S. I am not so optimistic person in nature maybe she started to teach me ;D
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I know I am talking to myself but I assume that is also some kind of therapy ;D.
I am confused she ended up in bad mood and fell down few times pretty bad (walking with holding herself for something) but did not want to give up... I took her and she fell asleep within 10 minutes ??? A time 3.26 hr, obviously OT is creeping in :P. What know? How to prevent that it does not become even worse? I will try to make her second A time no more than 2.5 hr but we will see how that will go
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Hi tweetie you aren't talking to yourself we're just on different time zones its only barely after 6am here. To be honest in my humble opinion if you are going to sleep train you'll need to stick with it. Thats the oknly way it's going to work. It's not fair to her or you to go back and forth. If you want to wean the hande holding you'll nust need to stop doing it. You can do GW but not hold her hand. Does this make sense? I could just be delerious :)
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Thank you Skadiver :). I know I am just joking I mean I need to do that otherwise... ;D
O for now I am fine with holding hand, when she will need normal time to fall asleep with the hand then I plan to deal with that. I am now just confused is that waking from OT or sleep training regression ?
Her first A time was 3.26 hr - I did not happened I think when she was 7 months old. She woke up alone after 30 min. Do not know what to think?
How two of you are doing?
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Hi tweetie, i think you may find though you cant sleep train her with out removing props, you wont see her able to self settlle if she wakes during naps becuase you arent there to help. It wasnt till I sleep trained Liam that if he woke early from naps was he able to SS. Sometimes in the night heKll sit up and chat but 20min later he'll go back to sleep with out me. Also its not good for your back. I think you may find much more luck if you bite the bullet and gw. Again just my btdt. Do what works best for you. :)
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Thank you Skadiver I appreciate it. You are absolutely right what are you saying just I do not have guts to that in that way because of that transition - I am not capable to deal with OT from ST and NT IYKWIM? :-[
Usually she does not have problems with waking from naps only if she is OT or iif something wakes her up. I do not know what was today.
Day is getting even more weird :
A 3.26 hr
S 30 min
A 2.16 hr who is crazy here ???
She fell asleep within few minutes in both cases I do not get it ??? Today is one week of ST
I will see how long she will sleep
edit - sleep is over after 1.08 hr
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I didn't have the guts ether but I took away his pacifier at 5 months cold turkey, and bite the bullet and it only took 3 days of crying arching screaming kicking in his crib and after day 1 it got better and better and by day 4 he was putting himself to sleep. He is so much happier for it too as he's not confused by what's going on and I can tell what is cries are now. That's not to say when he is OT I still don't to sometimes help but it makes it easier to tell if he IS OT because he wont fight a nap if he is ready and I know because he will put himself to sleep does that make sense? If you never ST her, you'll never know exactly why she woke because she goes to bed with your help. You can't really ST her if you aren't removing the props does that make sense? Sorry if I sound pushy I just don't wnat you to be so frustrated and upset about it, because I don't think you are going to get the results you want if you don't wean that hand holding. :)
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Ben still uses a pacifier when he sleeps, but he is pretty good about it. He usually drops it within 5 mins of falling asleep, and I leave a few in his crib so when he wakes he usually just finds one and put it back in himself and sends himself off to sleep.
Tweetie, with the hand holding - when I ST I tried to sit next to the bed and touch him so he would know I was there, and it didn't work for us at all. He was so distracted by me. Eventually I just sat in the rocking chair so he could see me, and he cried...oh believe me he cried, and the first few times it would take an hour, but he would eventually lie down and go to sleep. And after that, I didn't even do the whole 'move closer and closer to the door' thing - I just left. For us it took a really hard, stern approach, but it worked and only took 3 days. And you really have to understand what CIO is and what isn't, because even if I left he would cry, but it's understanding what is an 'I need you' cry and what isn't.
Well, the good news is that Ben STTN last night. The bad news...he was up at 5:05am. And I mean UP. Tried APing for 40mins and got nowhere. Sigh. I really think if I could crack these EWs we could get back to short am/long pm.
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Hi Lindsay I weaned the pacifier because he was swaddled till 7 months and couldn't replug but he was waking whenever it fell out like 5X a night and I just refused to replug. He never used it during the day and outright refused it so it went away. :) That's Great he SSTN.. Liam did to. Slept from 6:30-5:25, but I let him till 5:50 till he started yelling for me. :) At least he SSTN. I thought these EW's would go away with the change, if they would I could do the Long AM, short PM nap or EBT.
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Thank you very much ladies . I know you are right and I am preparing myself to do that ....
Skadiver I do not think you are pushy at all :).
Lindsay when I turn my backs to her and ignore her she is crying so badly (I know she is frustrated) but when I tried to walk out that is real cry I need you. She is not the baby who cries a lot - probably that is one of the reasons I do not deal very well with her cry :-[..... uhh excuses excuses...
I am glad that both of your boys are STTN - they will recuperate soon and then you will see what will you do next.
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when I turn my backs to her and ignore her she is crying so badly (I know she is frustrated) but when I tried to walk out that is real cry I need you.
Ya it's hard. If it's an 'I need you cry' then you obviously can't let her at it on her own. Just being in the room with Ben so he could see me, but not touching him was also really hard, but it's probably what got us through. It was so hard to sit there and watch him wail, and be literally 3 feet from him and not go over to him...and he's staring right at me and crying. But as soon as I went to him he'd think it was play time, so I had to stand my ground and keep a distance. So so SO hard, but did the trick :)
I am actually wondering when I should wean the paci. I'm trying really hard to only give it to him for naps and BT, but I do give it to him sometimes if he is really whiny or tired (mostly for my own sanity LOL). Not sure how he would do if I took it away at night? In any case, I'm definiately not ready to do it yet. We'll wait until he starts daycare and we are over that hump, and then I'll think about it. Maybe 18 months? Who knows.
So I put Ben down this morning at 9:15am (...which since he got up so early was a 4.15 A) and he did 1.35hr nap. So I just put him down again and it's 2:20pm. It's looking like it'll need to be 2 naps today. Hopefully we can get a later WU tomorrow and we can push that first nap out a bit.
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FX for a later wake up. Babysitter put him down for a 9am nap (he woke at 5:250 but he pooped right as he was falling asleep, so he didn't get down till 9:20. Woke 35min later crying. :( so she put him down at noon A of 2hrs. He slept 2hrs 15min ( I had to wake him) shooting for a 6:15 BT he's upstairs rolling around going betwen chatting and crying so we'll see. He may not be tired enough but it's a 13hr day so I didn't want to extend the day.
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We had a 14hr day today :o Yikes!
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Well we ended up with 13.5 He could NOT fall asleep. Poor thing was exhausted but just couldn't settle. I think maybe teeth but he seemed in discomfort so not promising for the night to come.
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I think Ben's teeth are bothering him today too, he was doing this really funny cry this evening. I gave him some meds before bed.
Hope you guys have a good night! Ben's party is tomorrow so I am hoping for a good night and a good nap day tomorrow :)
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Well he slept till 4:30 woke SS then woke for the day at 5:40. He's been nothing but cranky, clinging one minute pushing at me the next. Doesn't want to eat anything solids or formula. Doesn't want to sleep ether. My little monkey has been replaced with a gremlin. Someone swapped them in the middle of the night.
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My little monkey has been replaced with a gremlin.
Aww! This made me giggle a little bit :P It's so hard when they are so tired and whiny...you feel so bad for them but at the same time it can get beyond irritating at times. Do you think his teeth are sore? The fact that he doesn't want to eat much seems like something else is going on too?
Ben was up for the day at 5am again. He sort of settled, wasn't crying hard so I just left him until he started wailing at around 5:40. Lord above I could really use to do without these early wake ups!
His party was great, though he only took a 30min nap this afternoon. I wanted to let him settle but MIL rushed up there SO fast he didn't even have the chance. Drives me nuts because she does that all the time because she's so excited to see him, but I cannot handle people sacrificing HIS sleep because they want a visit. She was going to be here all day there was no reason to rush up. Sorry - end rant! Despite the short nap, there was so much going on that he was distracted from realizing how tired he was. Probably so OS though!
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Hello ladies last two nights are good - no NW, regular one feeding. Yesterday she woke up at 5.52 am - it looked like a EW but it was not since she slept almost 11 hr (did not happen for ages). I extended BT (thinking what Johnnhya65 wrote here - thank you :)) - more than planned - but I was thinking it's working.
Yesterday first A time was 4.5 hr - she did not show she is tired till 4.10 hr (I am not surprised after such a long good night) but then she pooped... you know how that goes. Second A time was almost 3 hr and she slept for 1.5 hr, and 4 hr to BT (that was way too long, she became OT freaking out and could not sleep and then it escalated and nothing could calm her down, crying in sleep but night was good. WU 5.21 am.
She is in the good mood and I am starting to think will this EW disappear and I am thinking about that first A time - I have a feeling that it started to shift later or I am just imagine :).
Hopefully you will get some rest over weekend :)
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This child has an internal alarm that you could cook by. Wakes EVERY morning at 4:30, rolls around but can usually SS for another hr and wakes just about 1hr later. Its an 11hr night so I cant complain but 5:30 is just so darn early.
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Wakes EVERY morning at 4:30
I wonder if this is a habitual waking? We've had those before and I had a lot of success with W2S...I think I did it 3 nights in a row and then the waking would disappear.
Tweetie, happy you had a good night! Ben STTN and woke at 6:30!!! Yippee!!! I think it was because he was soooo tired from his party. I'll take it though! Maybe we need a birthday party everyday!? LOL. Gives me hope for when he starts daycare though.
Its an 11hr night so I cant complain but 5:30 is just so darn early.
I feel ya! And I can't complain because he usually STTN unless he is seriously OT or has a tooth popping through.
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Yeah, i just hate that 4:30 wake up.. Haven't tried W2S honestly because I'm so damn tired that I can't bring myself to wake up an hour early.. It takes me too long to go back to sleep. Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and try.
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I know, my fear was that if I woke up an hour before (so for you 3:30am) and then did it and it didn't work, then you'd be up at 3:30, his usual 4:30, and time for WU at 5:30! Gross. But honestly, it worked wonders for me. The first day I did it, it pushed the WU out by an hour (so for you, that would be 5:30 which is his regular WU), and then the NW went away altogether (for me I think I was doing it around midnight).
It is worth a try :) Doesn't work for everyone, but worked for us. I think I've had to do it on 2 or 3 different occasions, and for 3 or 4 nights I did it.
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what did I say in the last post here? ::) some kind of hope? yeah right..
yesterday again similar day as two days ago
WU 5.21 am
A 3.46 hr
S 25 min (woke up alone ???)
A 2.40 hr
S 2.08 hr
A 4.30 hr
NW - 2 hr ::) she was not OT ???
6 days of capping am nap EW still here +NW+messy EASY + no life everything is about her sleeping and calculating ::)
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I'm so glad I came on this board tonight, I could just cry. It's nice to realize we're not the only ones going through sleep madness! Jonas is almost 17 months and we can't transition him at all after months of trying. I was okay with going on with 2 naps but in the past week, EWings have returned and the PM nap is getting shorter. The nights are getting shorter because of the EWings. Nightmare!
Here's our EASY in case anyone has any suggestions:
WU: past week it's been 5:15 - 5:30 AM average. It used to be 6:15am.
A: usually about 4.5 hrs
S: 10 - 10:30am
A: usually about 4 hrs
S: 2 - 3pm
A: 4.5 - 5 hrs
S: 7:30pm bedtime, asleep by 8pm
We usually don't get NWings and if we do he puts himself back to sleep.
I'm thinking maybe we start with setting his nap at 11am and sticking with that for a few weeks. On the random days he's had 1 nap, he's only slept 1hr and the afternoon is just a disaster. We then do early bedtime at 6:30pm or so, but he's definitely OT by then.
Any advice is appreciated.
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Hello jennandsophie, I know how it is :-*. I do not have any smart suggestion :) - your LO is much older (different A times & other things). I know there is another chat for toddlers 2-1 transition so maybe to try there? Here is the link Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 5
No matter on which chat you will stay I wish you good luck :).
Yesterday of course EW, shorter first A time, OT after I woke her up, second A time was disaster (in the bad mood), pm nap almost 2 hr - afternoon was great, BT - she fell asleep within less than 10 minutes :o - amazing. Night - no long NW (thanks God), but still few NW :'(, WU 5.30 am.
Skadiver & Lindsay are you alive? Everything under control? I mean more or less ;D
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Honestly we're in a nightmare. He's teething, cranky, and just being a gremlin. He had a "perfect" day yesterday, and woke at 4am. No crying, just chatting for 25 min then was just up. I finally went in and literally wrestled him back to sleep an hr later. %e slept another 45 min so up at 6 happy as a clam. I'm exhausted. Yesterday he did
W: 5:30
S: 9:10-9:45
S: 12:20-2:20
S:6:45.. day was a little long but not astronomical. I dont know if this is OT or UT
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Skadiver, from my experience its UT causing OT. My lo has been grumpy this whole process because of the short cn. If the cn was too long we would get a short night wih either long NW or EW and hen he would be grumpy. If the cn was super short, 15-20min, we got a great night but he was still grumpy all day from the short nap. Your doomed if you do, doomed of you don't, yk? I say try a shorter cn... What's the worst that can happen?s more grumpiness??? :-\
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Hi thanks so much. I was thinking maybe I should push that first A out to 4hrs instead of 3.5? instead of cutting the nap? He's soooo grumpy on a shorter nap. So my day would be something like
w: 5:30
S: 9:30-10
S:12:30-2:30
S: 6:30
Also so he woke at 6 after I apop'd another 45min out of him. I went to put him down at 9:30 and he's up there talking, banging away. He's tired I know he is, he was putting his head down at the table at breakfast. :/
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Welcome jennandsophie. We are all bumping our way through this. It's not pretty LOL.
I was okay with going on with 2 naps but in the past week, EWings have returned and the PM nap is getting shorter. The nights are getting shorter because of the EWings. Nightmare!
I wonder if you need to cap that AM nap a little more - maybe to 20mins to help extend your PM nap? I say that because your LO is a bit older than ours, so might be ready to really move toward 1 nap and having a shorter CN might help that PM nap lengthen.
Every day is different around here - I try to do a 4hr A in the morning and then see how long he naps, if he does a "shorter" nap (1.20hr) then we pretty well have a 2 nap day, but if he takes a longer nap (2hrs) then I just do a PM CN. The short AM was just not working for us because he was never UT during that first A, so he'd be OT by the time the PM nap came and he'd end up short-napping. He's routine will probably switch though when he starts daycare. Yesterday he only had 1 x 1.15hr nap so I had him in bed at 6pm and he actually did a 12hr night and was up at 6am. I was shocked.
Tweetie, I'm happy you had a good afternoon, but sorry for the NWs. My only saving grace is that for the most part Ben STTN usually.
He had a "perfect" day yesterday, and woke at 4am.
Huh. Strange!! This would throw me for a loop because if is day was great you wouldn't think there would be a reason for him to wake at 4. I really wonder if it's habitual, and then since he's up and has already had a long stretch of sleep he doesn't necessarily still feel tired when he wakes, yk? Probably gets tired about an hour later though!
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Oh yeah he was falling asleep at the table at the restaurant this morning. I had to take him out to eat because i was exhausted ande coulsnt handle him at the house. :/ i feel horrible for saying that, but we both needed a distraction.. I dont understan this. When we were doing Long am nap he was doing 4.5hr stretches now its as if he can barely stay awake for 3hrs. Its like he's perpetually tired? I dont get it.
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That's what was happening to us for the last 2 months before we moved to one nap... :-\
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Hows the one nap going? I think I want to go back to long am nap but not sure how? With him waking so early even a 4hr A only gets me to like 9:30
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Its like he's perpetually tired?
I think so unfortunately. I think the key to the short AM nap, is that they HAVE to be UT. And if the chronic OT starts creeping in, then no matter what the A time in the morning, he probably isn't UT.
When we had success with it Ben was waking up at 7am and I was putting him down for his morning CN at 9:30 - so he was really UT but tired enough to sleep 40-45mins. That meant he wasn't OT for the PM nap so he would do a nice long 2.5hr one. Sigh, wish we were back there.
Ben only slept 50mins after a 3.45A this morning, so I'm not sure now what to do for the PM!
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Oh, and don't feel bad about having to take him out for breakfast to get out! We've been doing A LOT of shopping lately - window or otherwise just to get out because no one likes being trapped at home at day every day with a crabby baby.
I think if you want to switch it back then just let him sleep as long as he needs in the morning - let him catch up a bit, and you can judge what to do in the afternoon by how the morning goes. That's pretty well where we are right now. It's not ideal, but hey...he STTN most nights and he's not overly tired or crabby during the day.
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See Liam is still taking a Good 2hr nap in the afternoon so I don't think he's OT? Unless he's just crashing, but he will usually wake early from a nap if he's OT. If I put him down when he's super UT it's going to not help those EW's i dont think.
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Oy.... I just want my happy baby back.
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The one nap is going ok I guess... We mostly get naps of 1.5hrs which isn't enough... The constant crankiness is getting better. He still has moments of breakdowns but much less. I have been giving him fruit when he has one and I think the sugar helps a bit :-\
At the end of the day I think the decision to move to one nap was the right one even if it is far from perfect at the moment... I can tell that he is slowly getting used to it even if he is still a bit OT... He was OT anyways from the whole transition so it wasn't as if I made anything worse...
He only thin that is driving me crazy is that he doesn't tack on to his nights so getting over the OT is taking longer... The only way I get a night over 11hr15 is if his nap is under an hour. Then I get a 12hr night but he wakes up even more tired than before!!! ::)
Ahhh these little ones are so confusing!
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See Liam is still taking a Good 2hr nap in the afternoon so I don't think he's OT?
Then honestly, I would keep doing what you are doing. If you are getting a good PM nap I'm not sure I would do anything to alter that. I think it would be easier when the time comes to drop that AM CN if you are still getting a good PM nap, instead of switching it around and trying to do long AM/PM CN.
I think like Maya said, it is just something you sort of have to ride out at this point. I know that's not nice to hear, but if you are getting a good PM nap I'd be reluctant to change anything.
Our issue was that even though I was capping the AM nap, he was only taking 30min OT naps in the PM.
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But he woke at 4am this morning :/...Maybe this is just a one off night and tonight/tomorrow will be different. Not making any decisions today except what to eat. :) chocolate..chocolate..or chocolate.
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Haha that'd be my plan! It is probably a one-off. Ben did that one day (I think the WU was 4:30) and I just let him sleep as much as he needed during the day and didn't cap anything.
I would also include...drink wine...wine...or maybe some wine? After 4pm is acceptable I think? LOL :P
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Ok ladies kill me but I gave up :-[
Today after cranky morning, again A time of 4.22 hr - I was aiming the latest 4 hr hoping 3.50 hr (awake from 5.20 am, multiple NW - resettled fast but it started immediately after 30 min - definitely OT) I let her sleep. So today am nap was 2.12 hr, A 3.5 hr, pm nap 20 min (I capped) and I put her in bed after 2.5 hr ... maybe I will pay for that (already this night who knows ;D) but after am nap she was my old baby, happy, playing with me, playing alone.... Maybe our way is to work on extending morning am nap with time, I do not know ???
I can not put her UT to bed I never could. Her first A time is too long and she is very tired after capped am nap, she did around 1.45 hr pm nap but I could see she is getting more and more OT....
Skadiver I cross my fingers it will work :) . My formula - at least half jar of Nutella ;D
Lindsay thank you for the support but sou see I failed...
P:S: I think that sleep training is getting better, slow but I can not bite the bullet so she gets few fingers at the end when it gets critical but she does not protest anymore, still needs time to fall asleep - definitely depends how tired - sometimes it goes in few minutes sometimes 30 min but I hope we are getting there ;D. I hope I did not jinx it :-X
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I think I want to go back to long am nap but not sure how? With him waking so early even a 4hr A only gets me to like 9:30
Let him sleep that day as much as he wants maybe?. Probably he will do two naps he sounds very OT poor thing.
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So today
W:6 after the horrendous br long waking from 4-5
S: 9:40 he needed my help woke him at 10:15, he was dead. But luckily he doesnt usually mind being woken up as long as its slowly.
S 12:45-2:45 out cold hax to wake up
He's happy as a clam after these naps it's the mornings that's miserable. So I guess BT of 6:45
Tweetie, you need to do what works for your LO. Some never take to short am nap so do whatever works. Keep up with the sleep training.
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Hey ladies, we've had a mixed few days few good and few bad nap days continue to get NW's but he is SS and wake ups are between 6-6.30. Doing 3.5 hrs A to first nap then 3 hrs to the 2nd I tried 2.5hrs 2nd A but he just rolled around and played then fell asleep just after 3 hrs, but we are getting 2hr naps (for now) He is abit of a grump though most of the day, but he still has a cold which had been hanging rond now for 2 weeks >:( teething and we're coming up to week 44 which is the peak of His latest WW leap so I guess it's allowed.
He has always definitely preferred a long am nap and part of me knows he would be happier too, Skadiver13 but I think if its working we're best pushing through as it will make it easier in the long run to drop that am CN. I'm finding we have to go out every morning and we do that short nap in the car, I find if he sleeps in his cot and I have to wake him he's just a huge grump, whereas in the car he wakes himself at 30 mins as the car is no longer moving, gives me 20 minutes go read a magazine or few pages of a book and then we either go I to a group or round the supermarket, anything to distract him. Get home, lunch, little play then, It's time for 2nd nap.
Fingers crossed for a good night!
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Hayley our LO's sound similar. :) fx for a good night.
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I'm so envious of you all who have LOs who will tack on to night sleep whatever they lost in the day. Jonas has never slept more than 11hrs in his young life no matter how much day sleep he has had (or not had). This makes putting him to bed at 6pm absolutely terrifying.
Today our nanny decided to try for one nap and it was a bit disastrous. He woke at 6am but she didn't put him down until noon. He only slept 45 mins and woke up crying so definitely OT. He talked to himself for a while and then back to sleep for another hour. Up at 3pm. However, he was cranky and uncooperative and decided to put him down a bit earlier, at 7:15pm. Fingers crossed he'll be up at a decent hour tomorrow.
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dejavu :'( similar behaviour as it was in the first trial of capping am nap. NW . histerical screaming of already 1 hr - nothing helps I can not even hold or do anything... cumulated OT.... so exhausted and I was thinking I will prevent that with yesterday :'(
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Jennifer, I have been doing set nap and BT for about 2 weeks. The first 3 days were 45 min naps but they will get longer. My lo doesn't tack on either. I started with nap at 12 BT at 7. He was having a hard time and after a week I realised he does better with a longer pm and shorter am so am doing nap at 1130 and BT at 7 and I will try to slowly move this to 12 and BT at 730. I think if your lo doesn't tack on you just need to stick to those times no matter what! For us it has been a rough 2 weeks but it is now finally getting easier! I have to warn you, there will be times when he falls asleep before the set time without your control (in the high chair during lunch for example... :o) you kind of have to just go with the flow and if he does have a few days when he crashes before the set time just let him sleep as much as he wants and put him to bed at night as close as you can to that set time. Good luck!!!! :-*
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Hi ladies
It's interesting reading everyones experience! This transition sure is hard!
What do you think is causing the Ew/ long Nw - ot or ut?
Yesterday went like this
A 3.5 hrs
S 1:15 (was aiming for ut nap but she just kept sleeping I thought I'd see if she would give me a long nap. Big mistake)
A 3:55 apop
S 40m
A 3:10 (cannot get her to sleep any earlier)
Then 5-6 nw and up after 10 hrs sleep at 5:45!
The nws are normal for her as she has a prop issue (patting) that we are trying to fix but just on the routine, do you think she needs me or less sleep?
Thanks!
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Hey songbird I am by no means an expert but I would reckon OT as neither of the two naps your LO is having are restorative, at least one needs to be minimum 1.5hr. I always find 10/10.5 hrs sleep is normally OT too, does your LO wake happy in the morning and from naps?
Are you trying for a long am A and nap with a short CN to bed? If so I would try pushing the first A out by 10/15 mins to get at least 1.5 hrs. Assuming you get a restorative nap of 1.5 hrs or more then try for a short CN, of say 40 mins about 3.5hrs after waking and then asleep 2.5 hrs after waking. We were doing this routine and it was working well for a while but we had to really push out the first A to get a good nap and then he started to refuse the CN until it was too near BT, he doesn't tack on well so OT ness set in so we had to switch it up which has been tough :( but I think we're slowly getting there.
This is what we're doing now, incase you want to compare. First A 3 hrs to get UT nap, we do this in the car enroute to a group or supermarket etc wakes himself at 25/30 mins. Second A 3hrs, wakes himself after 1hr55/2hrs, 3rd A 3hr45. WU has started to get later it was before 6 with multiple NWs but we only had one NW last night and WU this morning at 6.45!! I was in shock. He does have a cough and cold too so hoping that the NW will disappear once the coughing fits stop!
HTH :)
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My little Liam - thanks for sharing your routine. I was thinking about doing set times too. The issue here is now he's getting two crap short naps (30 mins and 1hr) and then a crap night most of the time (10 - 10.5hrs). I can't figure out if he's just low sleep needs or he's chronically OT. The thing is he's almost 17 months and it's still like this! Really hope it doesn't take much longer.
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Hayley just wanted to say that I followed your routine and apop an AM nap of 30 minutes after 3hr A and then put her down after 3 hrs (granted I had to feed her to sleep because its just milk time) and she has been sleeping for 2 hrs! Thank you!!!
I will just wait for her to wake herself hopefully won't cause UT but I just don't dare to wake her.
How do you organise lunch etc with the long pm nap BTW?
Also wanted to ask, with a short am (UT) nap and then a long one in the pm how do you when you need to shorten the nap some more? When Lo starts refusing the pm nap at 3 hr A? Then do we shorten first nap a little bit but keeping second A@ 3 hr? Then I presume when it gets down to something like 20 minutes you drop it ?
Thanks so much!!
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Songbird, with the timings we have first nap starting at 9.30 at the earliest regardless of WU and 10 at latest, so we do lunch either 11.30/12 then next nap 1/1.30 I do give a milk top up before this nap, but he doesn't eat again then till 4.30.
Re when to shorten 1st nap, like you say if he starts reducing the long nap to much less than 2hrs I'll reduce first nap to 20 then 10 mins if needed and shorten from the front IYKWIM but i'll bring the 2nd nap forward too, as knowing his A then will be trial and error but I think I would start at 2.5hrs. I'll keep doing that until I think he's ready to drop it, which i know may well take months >:( Thats the plan anyway.... I'm sure that won't actually happen, as my son will have other ideas :) I think a lot of mums recommend that you hold on to 2 naps for as long as possible even if one is only 10 mins as even that little time could help keep the OTness at bay!
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Well another 4:30.wake up. He's rolling around talking to himself. He's so loud it wakes tue whole house ip. I jad to buu DH earplugs, as sometimes hes only.gotten home from work.an hr or so ago. I just dont knkw whatbto do at this point.
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Skadiver I wish I have any useful advice but just wanted to give you some big hugs, you poor thing. You Must be exhausted.
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Thanks. :) I am, and I have to grad school finals tonight Oy.
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Skadiver I can only send you a hug :-* poor things - both of you. I cross my fingers for your finals - everything will be fine it must be :).
Did your LO have good night except ( ::)) this EW?
We went back to 2 naps, capped pm and we had nice night - thanks God. She did awake around 4 am (there is some discomfort going on, maybe heat..) and after a while a fed and she slept till 6.45 am.
Today her A time is again too long but I am not going to think about that now - I am learning to live day by day - maybe that is lesson I need to learn :P ;D
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Yeah it's a typical night. Sleeps at around 6/6:30 cries out around 9 but SS in seconds sleeps till 4:30 (I think the Early night cryout is gas). Wakes used to ss back for an hour now he's up trying to ss but just can't so he talks and talks and talks. I ended up going in at 5:15, rocked him till 6:05 and he was up.
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I just read somewhere in another post (can't remember where) that a 10.5hr night is OT (so 6pm - 4:30am). I know that's probably not rocket science considering all our LOs are OT with this transition.
I would consider trying W2S. It would hopefully move that WU back by an hour (that's what happened when I did it, until the waking disappeared after a few days), so you would *hopefully* have a 5:30am WU. It will REALLY suck doing it - waking up at 3:30am, but it might only be for a few nights? I would maybe ask about it possibly being a habitual waking to one of the mods on another board, because I am clearly not an expert in these matters :P
In the meantime...massive (((HUGS))) :-*
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Skadiver I cross my fingers it will go away.
Lindsay - then my LO is OT last two or maybe even three months ;D
BT went pretty fast just she woke up after 30 min and then 50 min I did fast resettled just thinking that first A time probably made mess and some OT... we'll see (God I can not even listen myself with that expression and I am still writing it ;D)
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Same here. He's always done 10.5hr nights except for a few weeks when we moved to one nap with EBT he was doing 11/12hr nights. But usually has been 10.5hrs :) I don't doubt he's OT though. I'm going to try W2S when Classes are done this week and I get back after the weekend away. :)
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More hugs from me too Skadiver13 :) We've had a rubbish day for naps so not sure what's in store for tonight and the morning. I think he must have woke early this morning but I didn't hear him so first nap may have been OT tried for normal 3hr next A but he just played around and I ended up rocking to sleep after 3hrs 25 he woke crying after sleeping 1hr 15 which I'm guessing was OTness??? Then our in laws have come to stay for 5 days ::) they haven't seen him since January so didn't end up asleep until 3hr 50 for the last A after a rubbish nap :-(
Tomorrow is another day though I guess, FX for a good one for you all x
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Skadiver how did it go? :-* How was the night?
Johnnyha65 - these in laws are always THE problem ;D
We had again night with little less than 10 hr of sleep, classic short wakings, WU 5.45 am.
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So I have had good naps during the day (30m UT AM nap after 3hrs A then 2 hrs+ om nap after another 3 hrs) butthe nights have been pretty bad! Part of this is the patting prop I know but here' what happened
Yesterday
Wu 6.07
A 3 hrs
Nap 1 30m apoo
A 3.05
Nap 2 2:15 (I resettled twice)
A 4 hrs
Bt 7.02
Night: multiple Nw (5-6) with a 1.5 hr long Nw 3-430
So I thought maybe she slept too much and today I capped the pm nap to 2 hrs after a longer second A (3 hrs 10) ( everything else was the same including thelast A to BT I was trying to sleep train, reducing the patting and so it took a while)
I tried to not pat as much at her first NW at 10.40 but it took 40 m, after that she woke every hour up to 545 (Bt was 720) ! So 10 5 hrs sleep so OT from sleep trading??
I can't stop sleep training. ..... but every hour was brutal! I just gave up and patted her fast after one or twice because I was so tired.
What to do?
Hope everyone had a good day!
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I'm trying to figure out wha tyou mean by patting exactly? Have you always done this? Has she ever ss for sleep?
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No she has never slept independently. Very rarely she ss at nap times but never bt or nw. So she would roll around trying to settle but can't, then cries out for me to pat her quite firmly and quickly then she would go to sleep. This patting can take anywhere from a few minutes to 40 minutes.
She used to require rocking back to sleep so we thought this was progress ::)
She only woke once a night before she turned 4 months. Somehow with sleep regression we had a lot of long NW so I started rocking her for long periods of time and it became a prop she woke 4-5 times for it so wechanged to patting. That's what wehave been doing for the past 3-4 months. She wakes, we go to her room and pat her back to sleep.
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We have again NW of 2 hr ::) .
Songbird we are in 2-1 transition and already 2 weeks in sleep training - everybody told me not to give up.
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Hi Sonbird, so are you ST to remove the patting? I can try to help but have you posted over on the props board? Tweaking and ST is hard as you sometimes don't know what is causing the waking, the prop or a routine issue. What are you doing to ST?
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What to say.. after over 2 hr NW she slept till 7 am first A 4 hr S 1.36 hr and refused CN I put her in bed at 6.10 pm. I am not going to think about coming night....
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Hi tweeting I think Ima said she thinks your A's might be too long? Are you shooting for a long AM nap now instead of the short am/longpm nap? A 1.5hr nap is a good nap except if it's only a one nap day it might not be quite enough but with EBT you should be ok. My lo would refuse the afternoon CN as well if I did a long AM nap so we went for the EBT. That's actually not a bad day and theEBT may help.. Fx for a good night for you.
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Yes she did say that. Unfortunately I can not make her sleep if she does not feel like. Before with APOP - yes if it was close to the "right" time now not even with APOP :'(.
Do I have any other choice? ;D Yes I will try with long am nap ... I am shooting for night without long NW :P. Thank you Skadiver.
How was your final? And you two - still capping am nap?
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Hi Tweetie, about how long does it take her to fall asleep? Just asking as maybe you can try just 5/10min sooner? Or maybe shorten or try a different windown? How is the ST going? Finals were good I had 3. All done for the semester :). Still capping the AM nap as I"m not home this weekend. My husband has the lo till sunday night, i'm out of town for work. I think Monday I might start pushing out that first A and see how we do.
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Depends how tired she is - it is not uniform. When I pick the right time she is done within 10 minutes, when I am shooting earlier - most problematic is between naps- then it takes around 30-40 minutes and yesterday (I think that was yesterday) almost an hour. What is amazing that she goes down very fast for BT - max 20 minutes - what did not happen since she was 4 months old (by then she would fall asleep alone without ST), then we did ST and got till the phase - holding hand - and evenings would take the longest- and now not anymore.
When I did ST first time - I was advised to have short WD and even now when she knows what is coming and I am holding and she wants to get out of my hands. When I put her in the crib and she is fine with that. I could extend WD time maybe?
I am satisfied with ST - but that is me :). She lays in the crib and does not stand anymore, does not fight, complain, no fussing, just that hand still. I am hoping to get certain constant average time for her to fall asleep i.e. 20 min then I plan to remove hand completely. ST also depends on her mood - one day I went out from the room and she was calling me I think after 10 minutes or so - those days when I put her too early in bed and she does not need me for playing just for help at the end ;D
I cross my fingers for pushing AM nap. God you are also working? And I am complaining ::) I should be quiet I am stay at home mum :-X
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EBT - 2 issues - 1. she can not fall asleep so early - yesterday that was not the case; 2. sleep 6 hr in the row and that is that..
Beat that - 3.5 hr long NW
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Short WD is just fine. Mine can only handle about 5-10min and then he's in bed. But we do limit activity around 30min before nap so OS isn't a factor as he gets OS easily. So no tv, no toys with sounds or lights. I take him out walking around the yard, or I take him up to my bedroom let him play on my bed with me for a bit and then bring him about 15min before I'd like him to be asleep in to his room. diaper change, quick song or book in the rocker, lights out in the zippy and off to bed. Takes him about 5-10min to fall asleep on his own. That's not to say we don't have days where I have to help him to sleep with patting or have to come in and reassert it's nap time but for the most part he SS. I think with ST you need to get to a point where you just aren't holding her hand anymore. She's become accustomed to the rest but with you in the room she's still needing your hand for sleep. It's so hard to ST when you are doing an UT nap because sometimes you need to apop to sleep and the defeats the ST, that's an issue I had too. So if you are trying for a long am nap short PM CN that's ok. But EBT/SEBT is going to be your friend. I'm not quite undertsanding your last post, language barrier I think :)
I only work a few days a month right now. I'm in school full time and I am in the Air National Guard which here in th US is part time military. :) I will be going back to work next Spring after I graduate but for now I am enjoying part time and being a SAHM.
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Thank you Skadiver I appreciate it. Similar wind down time here. I am running away from electric toys since she was 4 months old. We had lots of problems with OS so I know exactly what could be her trigger and recognize OS. Regarding ST you are absolutely right :). One thing is surprising to me: APOP does not work for her sleep anymore ???. If she is tired she wants to be in bed and not in hands or carrier. What I noticed lately - if it is exact time she does not need my hand, she will hold me for a short and let my hand or not even that and fall asleep. Things look different when I put her too early.
Sorry I am tired, far from native english speaker and just writing my thoughts...and talking to myself ;D .
When I wrote beat that - that was supposed to be joke ;D - she was awake 3.5 hr last night .
When I was writing about early BT - in the past it never worked for us because she could not fall asleep and when she would fall asleep she would wake up at some point in the night and could not continue to sleep.
The same thing happened yesterday. She slept 6 hr without waking and after that - no way she would go back to sleep.
Today again just one nap, A 4 hr (she was tired, I tried to put her after 2.30 hr, did not work; then I put her after 3.20 hr and she was not ready to fall asleep, playing and finally fell asleep after 4 hr), S 2.15 hr.
Thank you for sharing what you are doing :) .
We will so again EBT and hoping to have better night.
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One thing is surprising to me: APOP does not work for her sleep anymore .
Unfortunetely it's probably an age thing. Right around that time I think it went to pot for me as well. All of a sudden if he even remotely "thinks" I'm trying to rock him to sleep he starts arching and screaming at me. He hates it. Has never slept in the stroller and only once or twice in the car when he was forced due to white noise, car motion, and a blanket over his carseat during a trip. Otherwise that's a no go as well.
So I totally understand that. What happened with the NW, could that have been teeth/pain related? That long of a NW says discomfort to me? Are you putting her down at 12hr day or less?
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Baby Bjorn carrier saved us in 3-2 transition for CN I would give anything if that would work now :(
She was always long NW baby - too much sleep during the day, to little A time... everything resulted with long NW. I did not see any swollen gums, maybe there are some movements I do not know. Besides that I did not notice winds, it was not hot, no noise ???. She wanted to get back to sleep but could not...could be mixture of OT and SA too... I really do not know
edit: EBT I put her yesterday and today after 11 hr
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Yikes, I've been MIA!
I have taken the "whatever happens" approach lately LOL. It will come back to bite me I'm sure, but I start back to work full time next week and I don't want my last week with B to be spent completely stressing out about his sleep. I let him nap as long as he needs in the morning and I'm not really paying too much attention to A times, and he usually does about 1.5hr, then in the afternoon I usually put him down around 3pm for 45mins and BT somewhere between 6:30 - 7pm. It's actually been working really well because we have REALLY cut down on the EWs (...I clearly just jinxed that!!). When Ben starts daycare I'm in for a whole pile of OT baby, I know it. For now...I'll stay in my happy bubble lol :P
Huge (((HUGS))) to those who need them :)
Finals were good I had 3. All done for the semester
This must feel nice!!
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Hi skadiver yay for finishing your exams!
I have posted on the props board and getting good advice there on the patting. I'm doing gradual withdrawal to sleep train and aiming to slow down my pats over time. I must say I haven't done that well so far but she is very persistent and some nights I just gave in because I was just so tired :(
So nights are still pretty bad as per usual, up every 2 hrs or so plus the odd long NW every few days or EW. Day naps are good ish following the 3hrA-30m capped nap-3 hr A - 2 hr nap.
However the long pm nap I generally need to resettle a few times (taking say 5-10m) but after that she would sleep past the 2hr mark (I guess because of the time taken to resettle! )- What do you ladies think? OT or not tired enough to make it through transition? Thanks!
Lindsay that's great to hear, I feel like I'm obsessed about her A times and routine and would love to just go with the flow too. My family think I'm being overly obsessed about her sleep.... My Lo starts childcare two days a week tomorrow and I can only hope they can help her through a 2 hr nap too .
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I don't think any napping is going to happen today. :/ We are getting a new roof installed on our home and the next door neighbor is digging with a backhoe putting in a new pool... It's loud.
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We have similar day as yesterday - one nap, EBT.
Last night was better than previous but still bad with multiple wakings, hard to resettle, last one at 3 am took an hour, at the end I was exhausted and put her in my bed :-[ :-X. I know I should not but she was OT and restless. I fell asleep before her, don't know how long took her to fall asleep :-[
Today we started to work on removing hand :-X.
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Ugh. U just can't win. So no nw from a long day fingers crossed he'd sleep in. its 2:30 and the smoke detector battery dies and it starts beeping and wakes him up. I'm so peeved right now.
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O God you really have challenging time. Hug :-*
Skadiver I remembered you - yesterday workers woke her up - they have been changing the roof on the building next to us since last week ::).
ST - in the morning - without hand - fell asleep immediately, BT took her 15 min - just fussing from time to time, but last night was hard from 4 am - 5.20 am-I do not like to do that when I know she is OT so I did not give her hand but used some other methods - GW :P...
She is on one nap, there is no way back so 4 days one nap+EBT, I think that nights started to be better (still far from ok, still one freaking show per night, multiple wakings till midnight except night before last night).
Yesterday workers woke her up so she ended with 2 naps, night was much worse and then EW with lots of crying.
Today again one nap, BT - waking each sleep cycle for short, I resettled, definitely OT but during the day she is in the great mood, happy...I really hope that these nights will sort out with time.
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Skadiver, Lindsay were are you? Alive? :-*
Song bird, Johnnyha65?
I just wanted to tell you that we are on one nap, have still NW and other stuff (I am getting help on toddler sleep) but I need to say that since we started it worked much better during the day than those variations of cutting naps - less fight with sleep and better mood during the day. Hand for sleeping is gone :). Of course we need to work on moving from crib but I think that HAND was the hardest part - if I am wrong I will find soon.
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Hi Tweetie! I'm happy things are better for you on one nap!!
Ben started daycare today - he is doing a half day today and then he starts full days tomorrow. Our provider is going to try the short AM/long PM with him so that his routine fits in with the rest of the kids. The good news is that she does lunch at 11:30 and PM naps start around 12:30, so hopefully because it's early in the afternoon he won't get OT. Up until now I've just kind of been going day by day, as I didn't want to stress about his naps too much during my last week at home with him. I'm hoping she got him down for a short nap this morning...we'll see when I pick him up in a few hours!
As long as he sleeps about 2hr 15min during the day, he pretty consistently STTN. We did have a bit of a rough go this weekend however because we had dinner with friends on Saturday and didn't get B home and in bed until 9:30pm, so he ended up having an OT waking from 2am - 4am and then was so OT in the morning I couldn't get him to take a nap he was so hysterical. We ended up having to AP a 1.5hr car nap!
Yesterday was mother's day and ended up being a 1 nap day, but because of dinner with family we had BT at 7pm, but I wanted to get him down sooner. He had 2 OT wakings last night, but settled both quickly. Hopefully we can get back on track today, which is why I'm REALLY hoping his daycare provider got him down this morning. We'll see how the afternoon goes...my neighbour is having her roof redone so it's REALLY loud with them hammering next door. I might actually take him to my mom's this afternoon and try to get him to have a PM nap there.
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Hi Lindsay
That is great that he is STTN (my dream :)). He is great guy - you can afford to go for a dinner and mess with the schedule - I can not afford that with my peace of work ;D.
I cross my fingers that things will work out :). I am pretty sure he will need some time to adjust but he will be fine :). How are you? :-* I mean regarding accepting the fact of go back to work and adjusting to day care? Or better not to ask... I am asking because that is also waiting for me and I do not want to think about that - yet :-\. Today we filled papers for the day care, results are in June. I still have bunch of time till September but still I know how I will feel ...
God - is there coincidence that all of us (at different sides of world) have roof workers at the same time including 2-1 transition ??? Pretty sure it is Murphy's law ;D
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We're still here, but have been battling with an awful cold the last few days :( I think he's over the worst now, but we've had a 1hr 10 PM nap today so I'm betting he was OT by BT so it will be a 5ish WU *sigh* they are the pits, because its so light at this time in the morning it's so hard to get him back to sleep I'll end up ap-ing and holding him just so it doesn't screw up the whole day, so it will be an early night for me!
I'm glad the one nap is going well for you Tweetie, I'm sure once she adjusts the NWings will reduce and the stop :)
Lindsay, I hope your LB had a good day at daycare and of course had his naps!
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We're here. :) Been battling roof workers, etc and teething oh joy. So we went to one nap yesterday. I just couldn't take all the guessing anymore. Just trying to figure out how to get the wakeup later with out going to bed early. People say on one nap to do EBT if you get a short nap. But even like today I got a 2hr nap that puts BT at 5:30 that's not possible to do. So I"m doing 6 for now and we'll see what happens. I might just need to go with set nap set Bt after the weekend we'll see where we're at.
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Hi ladies I'm still here ;)
I have been doing short AM/long PM naps with good succcess (have to APOP a UT am nap of 30 minutes - usually have to wake her up and I hate doing it but it works, then a 2 hr pm nap 3 hours later). Days are going well but nights are still pretty bad - 4-5 NWs but I have started to feed her again and it went down to 2 NWs so who knows, maybe she really was just hungry????
Lindsay we are starting DD at day care too and their lunch time is also at 11.30. I'd be interested to see how you go! Are you doing a UT short first nap? Because the problem with DD is that she wouldn't go down if it wasn't in the pram so I don't see how daycare can give her a UT first nap of 30 minutes....as i'm still on leave at the moment I have been pushing her out then bringing her into daycare late (around 9.30) after her UT nap, then leave her with them to put her down for her (supposedly long) pm nap but so far she has only been napping 1 hr or so for the second nap, leaving a long time to BT!
Tweetie and skadiver, hope the one nap goes well for you!!
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Ladies I am happy you are still alive :) inspite of the fight with 2-1 ;D
Johnnyha65 I am sorry because of the cold. I hope he will get well soon :-*. I have blinds so it is dark in the room otherwise there is no way she would sleep. Yesterday she was awake 6 hr after 1.45 hr nap :o. We did get EW at 5 but I kept her in the crib till 6.41 am and I do not plan to put her too early for a nap, only if she will be very tired. Our nights are far from great but in comparison with previous much better. She does have multiple NW but goes back to sleep alone more often, last night two times I did sshh and it worked :o, one time I should pick her up hold her for a minute and returned her back + one BF. Somebody would say this is disaster ;D but I think this is a big improvement ;D. I am also happy because I could do many things during the day not just sitting and counting A time and try to make her sleep. It is funny how small things could make your life great when you see that it could always be much worse ;D IYKWIM?
Skadiver just go with the one nap, your LO was dealing much better with A time than mine and STTN so I am pretty sure it will get better. What would happen if you would keep him in the crib lets say so till 7 am and then count that A time as a half A IYKWIM? That I plan do today. Now she is not OT anymore and definitely EBT will cause EW that is actually not early....
Songbird - maybe she needs some time to adjust or maybe is in the combination with SA?
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Well, since being at daycare Ben has been refusing his AM nap, so we've been on 1 nap for 3 days which I think pretty much means we are on 1 nap now. He STTN last night so hopefully he'll do it again tonight on 1 nap. We'll see, his A times are LONG so I can see OT building quickly. Yesterday at daycare he fell asleep eating lunch in his high chair :(. Poor guy!
I am also happy because I could do many things during the day not just sitting and counting A time and try to make her sleep. It is funny how small things could make your life great when you see that it could always be much worse IYKWIM?
YES!!! Lord, counting A times will literally drive you crazy. I stopped 2 weeks before I went back to work. I was just done with it. I put him to sleep when he was tired and just went from there.
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:) Me too but I paid that last night :'(. She is never too tired during the day. I can not imagine she would fall asleep sitting or eating ;D but then we are paying with nights - she was OT and could not sleep no matter she was trying :-\
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Hey, hope you've all had a good weekend with lots of good naps and few NWings! So we have ended up,switching back to long am short pm nap now as he it was just not working for him he was getting OT and very grumpy all the time, just couldn't seem to get an UT first short nap. The thing is the last 2 nights he's woken up at 3.26am, crying inconsolably so I've had to go in and try and help him back to sleep he SS for naps and at BT no problem and has done since 4 months, I'm lucky with that I know :) i try not to go into him once he's in his cot as when I do I end up having to hold him until he's fast asleep.
I thought maybe SA but he just could not settle back to sleep, in the end I've fed him both nights, he guzzled 6oz, I've put him down and he fell asleep,within 10 minutes! Surely not starting night feeds again at nearly 11 months :'( WDYT?
It's not OT as with him he does 10.5 hrs then screams until I go and re-settle him which normally involves holding him till he's asleep.
I'm worried we're going to create a habit feeding but after trying for an hour the first night and 45 mins the second it was the only way we were all going to get some sleep.
This was today
WU 7.40 (after NW from 3.30-4.15 when I fed him)
A 3.25
S 1hr 40
A 2.5 as we were travelling to my parents so in the car
S 40 mins
A 2hr 55
BT 6.55
Sending sleepy dust across the water for your little ones, I'll let you know if we get the 3.26 WU!!
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Sounds like pain hun, have you offered meds? The feeding could have been comfort related? Thats assuming he's eating enough during the day.
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No I didn't think pain, haven't had any reason to think so he's so much happier now in the day and I don't 'think' he's teething at the moment. He slept through last night from 6.55 - 6.10 so a good night! Think we'll be sticking with long am short pm for now anyway!
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oh ok. :) maybe just a one or two off days and hew as hungry :)
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Hey there! I am new to this board and I just wanted to pop by and ask about my LO and her EW of late. They are not atrociously early but seem to be getting a bit earlier each day. I'm wondering if this is something I can try to help by making her AM nap slightly later? I cap her AM nap to 45 minutes, not sure if that would factor in to the equation at all?
Here is her day yesterday...
550am W
615 E
3hr40min A
930 S
1015 W (AM capped at 45 min)
1030 snack
1145 lunch
3hr A
120 S
315 W
530 dinner
615 bath
645 bed
Now my first thought is to tweak her 1st nap time a little bit but she has also been very whiny/needy the past few days so she could be teething or this could be developmental right? I know it's not that early but if there is something I can do to help her sleep longer I would love to try. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
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I don't have any insight just wanted to say we're in the same boat....EW most days...
I am actually thinking 6.45 to 5.50 is not a bad night, could it be that you just need to push BT back slightly every few days and WU will follow? But I'm not expert, I'm struggling myself....
Hayley - only just saw your post about changing back to long AM/short PM nap, how do you get LO to take a short PM nap?? I'm really struggling with that at the moment, do you try for an apop UT PM nap or wait till LO wants to sleep again? Thanks!!
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Songbird - you are totally right, 645-550 is nothing to complain about! I only hope to prevent her from waking earlier and earlier, she went through a phase where she woke a 5am every morning and that was not so cool. A later bedtime may be the answer but I always worry about OT. I guess if I just slowly add a bit of time each day she should be able to adjust.
Out of curiosity how old is your LO and how long between pm nap and bt?
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DD is 10.5 months and her last A before bed after a 2 hr pm nap is around 3:45 to 4 hours. I'm trying to change back to long AM/short PM this week so after a 30-40 m late pm nap she does about 3 hours. I am finding that there is a big difference in A times for my LO between a 30m or 40m nap, it's funny how much difference 10m makes!
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Hey songbird, sorry not been on for a few days. So I was ap-ing the 2nd nap was doing it in the car back from somewhere, but didn't happen today :-( refused even the car so it was BT at 6pm this was after 6hr 20 A so goodness knows what time he'll be up we normally get 10.5hr night when OT :( I'll keep trying for the 2nd nap but if he refuses its gonna be EBT and start trying to push that first nap out!
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I am finding that there is a big difference in A times for my LO between a 30m or 40m nap, it's funny how much difference 10m makes!
Definitely - a 40 nap is pretty much a whole sleep cycle (although sleep cycles are starting to lengthen around this age) whereas with a 30 min nap you're waking them out of deep sleep. Not nearly so restorative! :)
Moogleit - if you start gently pushing the am nap later, your day should follow ;) I always found it better to start with the morning nap when trying to shift the day later, rather than just bedtime, as less likely to lead to OT.
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It's quiet on here at the moment, is there anyone still making the transition. Things seem to be going I the right direction I think I just need to keep slowly pushing his morning nap out now WDYT? Last night we had 11 hours and the today went like this ...
WU 5.40 he did quietly play in his cot til 6.30 though :)
A 4hr25
S 10.05 - 12.05
A 4hr15
S 4.20-4.40 APOP
A 2hr15
S 6.55
So an okay day we just need to get that WU later, but not sure that's going to happen as long as I keep giving that CN, but if not its just too long to BT, can't do EBT as he would have needed about 4.30/4.45 today!
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Yes, I think keep pushing the am nap! Would he last until 5pm after a good 2hr morning nap? If he tacks, he might do a 13hr night for you, which would give you as good a WU as you're getting anyway, and such a long night would really set you up well for a slightly later nap next day so you can start pushing the day out. Might be worth a shot next time you get a really good am nap, what do you think?
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Hmm that's a scarey BT I'd be worried he'd be up at 4am :o. If I gave it a shot what would we do about tea & BT bottle?
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Hi. I'm new here... I've read 2-1 threads but I'm still not sure what to do here..
I have 10M old LO and this is our day (approximately, because she is not consistant with her schedule)
WU 7-7.30 am
BF, after 1,5 hours solids
NAP#1 (10.30-11am)-(12-12.15) usually 1.15-1.30h
LUNCH
NAP#2 (15.30-16pm)-(16.45-17) usually 1h
solids
BATH and BF and BT 19.30-20.30
MOTN BF 4-6am
OK, so she WU at the same time every day so there's no problem with that. She WU in the MOTN once which bothers me a little but I don't know if I would wean it for now... Usually she doesn't have problems with naps but I have noticed that she has trouble falling to sleep at BT. She whines for an hour if I'm there and hold her back or not...
So - is this a sign for us to start transitioning? I have to say that I'm also quite scared of the vacation - we are going around her birthday - to a camp trailer. Firstly she is used to sleep in complete darkness and with a fan - she wakes up at every other sound... And in a trailer you can hear everything from outside! I'm afraid that she will have trouble adjusting to all that and also that she will be in the middle of transitioning and she will get OT...
So I guess what I'm asking is how to deal with all that the right way??
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Hmm.... aparently I scared everyone with my post... nobody answers... ???
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Sorry :) It's been a bit quiet here recently.
Sounds like she's a bit UT for both naps. I would push the am nap a little later and see if you can get a full nap consistently (1.5hr+) - and also increase the second A. She probably only needs one full nap and a catnap (45 mins at most). With a slightly shorter pm nap, she should be more ready for bedtime.
So something like:
WU: 7
nap: 11-12.30ish (uncapped)
nap:16.30 - 5.15 (capped at 45 mins)
bed: 8
I would try to keep the day to no more than 13hrs. What do you think?
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Haven't been on for a while! How is everyone going now? All transitioned Hayley?
Evasmummy, at 10 months we started doing this but don't know if your lo will have similar A times? Dd usually could go 4 hrs at that point in the morning but I found capping her nap after a full A made her really grumpy so I pushed her out in the pram apop her first nap after 3 hr A capping at 30m then 3 hours later put her down for a second nap which for us was 2 hrs normally.
With nursery I am surprised they wouldn't put lo down earlier? With mine I actually just tell them she got up at 5 put her down at 9 then again 3 hrs later after she wakes from the first one ( my Lo sleeps a lot more at nursery and can somehow go down 3 hrs after taking a full nap for her second one. Yours may well neee different times but my point was I could just tell nursery what time exactly I wanted her to sleep? )
Hope that helps!
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Oh and I can't apop an UT nap on nursery days obviously so I just try to push out the first A and then let them handle the rest lol.
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Papaya, thank you for your response and advice. I like it a lot, because I was also inclined to capping the second nap and not the first one. I was always so scared of her being OT that I always put her down earlier than later... She WO today at 5.10am for BF and then just went on and off to sleep, so we got up at about 6.20am. I put her down now 10.30am. Hope she sleeps long :) (she almost never can make it to 2h) It's quite hard for me to keep her up long in the morning because she needs constant activity - and not at home with the toys... that is getting boring for her... so we have to go out and play... :)
So I will try this and hope it works soon :)
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Hmm, she only slept 1.15... I tried to resettle but it was no use. Well I hope it goes better tomorrow :) (it's just so frustrating cause we have so many places to go in the next few days.. weeks... and all this planning... OK, now I'm whining! It will work out fine :))
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How was she when she woke? Could still be a tad UT - or teething discomfort perhaps? I'd stick with the same for a few days and then reassess if need be :)
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She was naughty... :D I don't think she is teething. We are out of schedule a bit... Because we had some running around with my grandmother to do.... So in the morning I put her down after 4,5 hours and she WO after 45 minutes but I think because she had to poo. She was constipated. So I put her down again after 2,5 hours because we had a picknick in the afternoon and she slept 1 hour. BT was after 4,5 hours again... So I will write again when we get back on track :)
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Hey songbird, unfortunately we are still here :( I think we will be moving over to the toddlers board shortly as R will be one in less than 2 weeks! We were doing okay where at about 4.5hr A and EBT then went on holiday for a week and everything went to hell! Would not SS at all for naps or BT and even aping I couldn't get a nap until he just crashed, so we have a week of built up OT to try and get over. Yesterday was the first day back, he just about managed 4.5 hr A and slept 3hrs I had to wake him then did 3hr45 to BT but still woke after 10.5hr @ 5.25 this morning and I wasn't able to resettle so he's rolling around his cot right now and it's 6.50, I'm so down about it as he's just constantly grumpy, whiney and clingy which I know is just because he's tired. This is way tougher than the 3-2 and I thought that was bad.
I hope you're having more luck!
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Hi, new to this thread ... think we need to start the 2-1 transition. DD needs an A time over 4 hrs after only a 45 min nap, not sure how to fit it all in the day. In response to Papaya's advice on another thread I am trying to push the am nap out past 1000 to overcome early waking (not working yet!). Currently
0515-0615 wake
0715 BF
0830 solids
1010 sleep
1055 wake
1115 snack
12:45 solids
1400 BF
1515 sleep
1600-1645 wake
1645-1730 solids
1730-1815 bath
1745-1830 BF
1815-1915 sleep
What is my end goal with the am nap? 1030? And I imagine I will move to cap it at 30min before too long? How late is too late to be going to sleep/waking for the pm nap? She is definitely having more long pm naps than she used to, but it is still very erratic. Also, if she fusses in her cot and takes longer than the usual 10min to go to sleep, does that mean her A time should have been longer?
I have seen the advice to keep a 13 hour day ... is this counting from wake up or rising? If wake up, this would not be possible, particularly if she has a decent pm nap. Over the last fortnight her last A before bed has varied from 2:35-3:31, depending on the length of the pm nap. Should I extend the A after a decent nap, or just fix it, say at 2:45?
Of course today is the exception to the rule ... she didn't fall asleep until 1530 and is still sleeping now at 1649 ...
So many variables!!
TIA
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She's getting on for 11 months now, isn't she? Are you capping that morning nap, or is she waking naturally at 45 mins? I wonder if it's time to start capping at 30 mins - that pm nap is getting very late, not leaving much of an A time to bed. I would think she'd be UT at bedtime (esp if she's taking longer to settle) which can also lead to a short night.
Personally, I would leave the am nap at 10-ish but cap at 30 mins (you don't want to push her too far in the am if you're only going to let her have a very short catnap), but then pull that second A right back and try for a pm nap around 1pm. My LO needed a MUCH shorter A time after a 30 min nap compared with a 45 min one.
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That's right, she's one week shy of 11 months.
She's waking from the am nap without my intervention. Surprisingly it's not bedtime that she's taking longer to settle, it's the other naps. What sort of A time should I be aiming at after the pm nap?
We were out and about this morning so she napped 1010-1040 in the pram. I put her in bed at 1345 but she fussed until 1420! So that's an A time of 3:40 after a 30 min nap. Holding my breath to see how long she sleeps ...
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I put her in bed at 1345 but she fussed until 1420! So that's an A time of 3:40 after a 30 min nap.
I wonder if that was a bit of OT...how did the nap go?
It can be a bit of trial and error to get the right A time after a shorter catnap - but for my LO we went from doing about 3.5hr after a 45 min nap, right down to 2.5hr after a 30 min nap.
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Papaya, what do you think A time would be after a 20 min capped nap??
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Nap was an hour. To be honest, I thought 3:00 was a bit too short for her. Will try 3:15 and see how that goes. 3:20 A after nap and now in bed asleep :)
Still unclear about the last A time ... best case scenario she has a 2 hour sleep 1345-1545 ... would I follow this with her normal A time, meaning a bedtime of 1945?? I really feel this is too late for us.
What happens when she starts to fuss for the 1000 nap? Is that the trigger to drop that nap altogether?
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Papaya, what do you think A time would be after a 20 min capped nap??
Again, can be a bit of trial and error - but for us, after a 15/20 min am catnap we were right down to 2hrs-ish second A.
Nap was an hour. To be honest, I thought 3:00 was a bit too short for her.
If it is, then I think she might do better if you push to one nap, tbh - otherwise you're going to need such a long A to get a half-way decent pm nap that your day is just going to get too long. And one long nap with a shorter day may be more restorative for her than two short ones in a long day. How late do you think you could push her for the am nap? What if you put her down at 11am, let her sleep for as long as she likes and do an early bedtime, or do you think that will just give you an OT nap? You could always AP a catnap every few days to keep the OT at bay, if need be.
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I think you're right, moving to one nap seems like the best way forward. I don't think keeping her up till 11 will be too much of a problem, just nervous about what happens if she doesn't get a long sleep :-\
The other complicating factor (and there always is one!) is that her routine will be quite disrupted over the coming month. In a fortnight we are travelling somewhere with a -2 hour time difference for a few days. We will be home for a fortnight and then another two-week trip (without a significant time difference). I am thinking I would be best served to wait until our return from the first trip, when her timing will be off, to start this process. Would you agree?
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Boooooo.... We're in the 2-1 already it seems ::) Z was exactly the same and onto one solid nap at 10 mths or so :o
Any who. Anyone want to give me some nice EAS for long pm short am? Please :-*
Z did a long am (and I mean loooong nap) but I have a kindy run so T needs to do a long pm really :-\ he's sick ATM but were having nap refusals and I've already been capping at 45 mins for a while. He does long nights - usually 11.5-12 hrs but we do still often get NW or a NF. (We have food issues MSPI and reflux to contend with)
T is 9 mths in a few days and I think he's heading towards 3.5-4 hrs A on a good nap.
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we did this Sara
A - 6am
Nap - 9.30-10
Nap - 1.30-3pm
BT - 7pm
worked for ages and then cut the am to 20 mins...
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When we did short am long pm we did
W: 3hrs to nap
nap 30min
2.5hrs to nap nap uncapped
then BT about 4-4.5hrs later
HTH
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Hi everyone i think we are well on our way in 2-1, still not got her into a routine yet though. Have been trying set naps but i just can't get he down in the am. We have tried
WU 6:30
Nap 9:30 - 10:15
Nap 2:30 uncapped
BT 6:30
but she would never take a long pm nap, she always preferred her am nap. So now we are trying
Nap 10 uncapped
Nap 3 / 3:30 for 45 mins
BT 7
We are hitting a similar problem in that sometimes she sleeps later (which is new for her) today was 7:30 not like her at all but she would not go down at 10 for love nor money, she went down at 11:30 and even then she was quite happily playing away i think she would have been happy to stay up (not sure what kind of nap we would have gotten though) so not really sure where to go from here.
She will be 11 months on Sunday.
Yesterday she had a 2hr 10min nap at 10 then she would not take a pm nap, i managed to get a 10min 1 in the car but that was her until BT. This was supposed to be at 18:00 but she refused until 18:50
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Hi from me too. And I bring great news too :P
I think we are getting it. I have done as told :) and capped the pm nap. For a few days we had 11.00-12.30 and 4.30-5.15 (or 5.00-5.45) naps. Then we came to a little longer am nap and a shorter pm nap (about 30 mins). Two days ago my DD managed to sleep 2,5 hours for am nap! Which was huge improvement because she has always done just 1,5-2 hours. I decided that day to skip the CN and it worked fine. Next day the story repeated and today also! She is only now waking up! (it's now 2pm and she fell asleep on the way home on the bike at 11.20).
So - can I think that this will continue? I must say that I'm scared to do so, because I don't want to spoil it :)
And also I can't believe it that she did this totally on her own! Naturally... just as skipping the night BF...
Now I think we just have to move the nap forward so that she goes to sleep after lunch, not before. But we have still time :)
Nice day to all - I will certainly have it!
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Lollipop what time do you do BT at after the CN?
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We have BT at around 7-7.30.
Now we don't have CN anymore.
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I dont feel like i am quite getting to grips with this. Can i ask a few question if i stick with what i am doing long am / short pm what A times am i looking for (my Lo is 11months) after WU, after 1st nap usually 1hr 20 - 2hrs (normally the 1hr 20) then should i be doing a 45mins CN or 30min CN then how long to BT?
ANd what would my day look like if it was a short am / long pm nap.
Sorry to ask these questions but i dont seem to be getting anywhere ???
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Can you post your tyipcal routine?
I would say your A times after your naps are going to vary if it's 1hr 20 as opposed to 2hrs. Here is what we did on short am long pm
Wake 6:30
Nap 9:30 for 30min (the reason we did 30 and not 45 was because 45 was restorative for my LO and would want a much longer A time after)
Sleep: 2.5hrs after that so 12:30-2/2:30 usually
BT 6:30/7
When we did Long Am short PM we did
Wake 6:00
Sleep: 10:30-12
Sleep 4-4:30
BT 6:30/7
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Hi
Joining on here now as I have started capping day sleep in prep for 2:1.
My LO is 10 months and I have started doing a long am/short PM nap and we are currently doing:
WU
A 3.5hrs
S 1.30-2hrs
A 3.5hrs (10 mins more if longer nap)
S 45mins
A 3.25hrs - just had to up this by 15mins as wouldn't settle after 3hrs
This is working well at the moment and night length has really improved.
My question is do I stick with this until something goes wonky or should I anticipate and start to lengthen the first A/when do I cut the catnap to 30 mins?
Also mindful that J starts nursery in a few weeks so who knows if he will even nap there!!!
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Thanks honey our day changes all the time.
WU 5:40
GU 6:30
S 9:55 - 11:30
S 15:05 - 15:40
BT 19:10
WU 7:30
S 11:30 - 13:20 1hr 50mins
S 16:20 Refused
BT 18:15
WU 7:50
S 11:40 - 13:40
BT 18:30 I thought it would be too late to fit a CN in but she was so OT.
WU 6:30
S 10:35 - 11:50
S 15:20 - 16:00
BT PD at 19:15 asleep for 20:00 she was chatting, calling mama, crying, legs in the air, head flailing frim side to side. This was her worst night for going to bed
I would just like to get some consistency for her (and me), if she has a good first nap 1hr 50/2hrs + i really struggle to get her down for a pm nap then she is very OT. What did you find better long am/short pm or vice verse and why did you change?
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so what A time are you shooting for? Are you capping that first nap or letting her self wake? Looks like your first day she was UT then she was OT at bt but did a good night and slept in a bit which was great. Then did a good catch up nap. Will she go down for an UT CN? Can you apop one in a stroller or a car for 30min?
That second day was a little long from 5:40-7:10 BUT she did a good night so she seems to be doing well? I guess I'm wondering what you are trying to fix? It looks as if she's going to bed around 7/8 and waking around 7/8 with the occasional EW due to OT? Arre you trying to get her wake up to be steady so her naps are at a usual time? Honestly my LO NEVER had a set routine until we went to one nap and we did set nap set BT. His A times were the same but his wake ups were always all over the place anywhere from 5 to 7:30 LOL you just never knew.
He did much better with a long AM/short PM but the afternoon CN was a problem because he was very hard to apop. That's when we just bite the bullet and went to one nap at 12 months with the occasional 2 nap day thrown in. He became VERY OT and whiny on short am long pm.
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BT is usually 7/7:30 or ocassionally 6/6:30 if a 1 nap day or if she is really OT it can be nearer 8 before she goes to sleep. She generally NW's between 1-2 and always at 5/5:30 when i feed her to try to get her back down for a later WU.
I guess my issue is i'm not sure what A times i'm going for i am kinda winging it every day, i think first A is between 3hrs 45 & 4hrs then i get a bit lost if she does a 1hr 20/30min nap or a 2hr nap i'm not sure what A to try.
Also i think i might be pushing her too long after a CN, how long would you do after a 30min CN i think 45mins is too much for her, but if she had a bad first nap i might giver her 45mins but again don't really know when to try BT after that x
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Well every child is difderent and liam is lsn so he was doing at leasr 4.5hr A by 11 months. So I wouls push that dirst A out a bit mayne 4/4.25? A 1hr 20min nap is usually slightly UT and maybe the next day a 2hr nap as a catch up? Could you shoot for somethinf like
W:
4hr A or push to 4.25 and see what you get
Uncapped nap
3.5hr A
Cappes na ok of 30min
2.5hr to bed?
Or
Wake
3hr A
30 min capped nap
2.5hr A
Uncapped nap
BT 4.5hrs?
This is what woeked for us. But for a bit towerds the end I had to apop the CN by rocking. Then I just went to one nap. The A times after a CN can vary per xhild and what they can handle
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Hey lovelies....do you think this day looks ok for T? H is 9 mths old but we've been I this 2-1 for a while.
He was doing 45 mins first nap but today he fought it tooth and nail so I hink he is ready for 30 then a long pm. I have to do it this way to fit in Zs kindly run 2 days a week (1 and 4pm DO/PU)
WU 7.30
Nap 11-11.30
Nap 2 up to 2 hrs but need to wake at 3.50/55 on kindy days
BT 7.30
I would prefer a 7-7 day but at, he wants it this way. I suspect his nights may shorten a touch one his top teeth are through anyway.
Do you think it looks ok???
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Looks good to me.
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Oh my goodness i dont know what happened last night, for the first time in ages he went down at BT no problem i was a happy bunny the she woke at 9:15 a wee back rub and she ws back to sleep then she woke again at 23:45 and that was her until 1:45 i started of leaving her as she was chatting away and singing then that turned to crying so i tried to settle with no luck then chatting / singing / crying this went on for 2 hours until i eventually got her to sleep. Then she woke at 5:50. What do you think that was all about.
GU 6:50
A 3hrs 30mins
S 9:50 - 11:30 1hr 40mins
A 3hrs
S 14:30 - 15:00 30mins in car
A 3hrs 10mins
BT 18:20 (5oz)
I'm hoping tonight goes better ???
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I think you may need a longer day with 2 naps :-\ after a 1hr40 min nap I'd gives longer A, like 3.5 min.... Would she cope?
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If you are doing a long Am nap I think your first A needs to be longer at her age. I'm thinking more like 4-4.25? Then maybe 3.5hrs and a 30min nap then 2.5hrs to bt. Sara is right on 2 naps you'll probably need a 13hr day.
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Hi guys
Just after some advice please on what I need to do next in 2-1. Ds is 10 months next week. Recently our EAS has been:
WU
A 3.5hrs
S 1.5-2hrs (commonly 1.5hrs, cap if goes to 2hrs)
A 3.5hrs
S 45 mins
A 3hrs
Bed
We still have a 5am (ish) NF which am currently working to eliminate.
The last 2 weeks the last A has stretched to 3.15hrs and is now at 3.5hrs before he will settle for bed.
Do I need to start extending the 1st A towards 4hrs and reduce the catnap to more like 30 mins and reduce the last A? If so what A times would you go for to make up the day?
I should add he is teething at the moment - looks like 4 top teeth coming at once so getting some NWs and giving meds plus giving meds at 5am feed as have had a couple of long wakes at this time - he does have a tendency to EW tho hence need to change things a bit?
Grateful for your thoughts!
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Thats what we have trying but she was going to settle with the CM so i out her down a bit earlier to make sure she got a nap. Its so hard, can you tell me when you think i should do BT today she was with the CM all day. She has probably slept too much but at least she is sleeping there.
NW 23:35 - 00:10 (5oz)
NW 5:45 - 6:00 (3oz)
WU 7:15
E 9:30 Breakfast
A 3hrs
S 10:15 - 11:09 53mins
E 12:30 Lunch
A 2hrs 47mins
S 13:56 - 15:25 1hr 29mins
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I would say 7:15?
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thanks honey x
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Have you looked at the link about A times? It says around 3.5-4.5hrs. Has she been on the higher or lower end of a times normally? Those are extremely low A times. Also I think you could probably start capping that nap. Anything over 45min and many babies need a longer A time. Did you cap that or did she wake at that time? Are you trying for a long Am, short PM or vice versa?
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Yah I think the A times need to go up up up ;)
Ts As are a bit low ATM but he is cutting 2 top teeth. Unless she is teething or sick I'd push them up.
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Well she woke at 5:30 this morning, after going from a nursery where she would only sleep 30mins in a whole day. To now sleeping too long at the CM's. I assume she did have too much day sleep thats why she woke early?
I have been doing long am nap / capped 30-35min pm nap. Do you think she would need a bit longer nap at the CM's as there is alot going on and they are out alot, should i ask her to cap at 45mins or stick with the 30-35min at the CM's aswell. Also when school starts back the CM will be doing short am / long pm do you think that will confuse her as we will be doing then differently or will it not matter if she is still getting 1 long / 1 short nap?
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I have been doing long am nap / capped 30-35min pm nap.
I'm confused because by your EAS she only had a 3hr A before a naptime? That would be extremely short for her age if you are going for a long AM?
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Thats what she did the day she was with the childminder. When she is with me i put her down after 4hrs.
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Oh ok, well then I think you wont be able to fix anything if your CM isn't on the same page as you. Is there anyway to get her to follow a routine you lay out? Your LO won't get used to the new A times otherwise.
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Not really cos of school runs but i can swap to short am / long pm if i need to?
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Ok well sorry I'm not sure what you want to accomplish? What schedulw can you do that the cm can also do.
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Hi Ladies,
I have a lovely DD who is nearly 10 months. We have always struggled with EW and at about 8 months they stoped for 3 weeks. Now for the past couple of weeks they are back.
She can average 4-4.5 hrs A time. With 4.5hr giving me 1.5hr-2hr nap and 4Hrs A time giving 1hr nap.
This was our EASY before the EW.
WU: 6.15-6.45
E: 7am
A: 4-4.5hrs
S: 11-12.30/1pm
E: 12.30/1pm lunch then bottle at 2pm
A: 4 hrs
S: 4.30-5/5.15pm
E: 5.30pm dinner bottle at 7pm
A: 2.5hrs
BT: 7.20pm always asleep by 7.30pm
She does really well with a long am nap and short pm nap, but Iam finding the pm nap is getting later and later and Ive already capped it at 30-40 mins.
Today has been al over the place.
EW: 5.25am (not crying, just playing, DH brought her in our bed at 6.15am and she fell back asleep and woke at 7.25am
WU: 7.25am
E: 7.30pm soilds 1hr later
A: 4hrs (I tried to put her down after 3.15hrs and try a short cn then but she just played and crawled/stand and laugh for 20 mins so I got her up)
S: 11.30-12.45pm
E: 1pm lunch, then bottle at 2pm
A: 3.5hrs
S: 4.10-4.45pm (When put down at 4pm she just played like she wasn't tired and I had to pat her to sleep so she would have the cn)
E: 5.30pm dinner bottle at 7pm
BT: 7.20pm asleep by 7.30pm.
Iam unsure if we are in the 1-2 transition.
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With 4.5hr giving me 1.5hr-2hr nap and 4Hrs A time giving 1hr nap.
I think this is your answer. She is ready for 4.25-4.5hrs of A time. Mine was doing the same around that age he was always High A needs. Is your lo? Have you read the links:
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)
from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps
My lo did great with long am short PM I just had to keep cutting the nap shorter. That first day looked just fine so this second day EW may be a one off? Teething, something environmental that woke her? Given she went back to sleep she was still tired enough.
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Yeah she is high A times, that first EASY was before the EW started.
Today she woke up at 6.10am with no nw.I left her in her cot until 6.35am as she was happy playing. It's now 10.30am and she is starting to get tired. So that would be 4.5hr A or do I not count the time in her cot?
How short did you cut that last CN by? Yesturday I woke her after 35mins and DH said she was happy when he woke her and she lasted till 7.20pm for BT.
Can I ask what age you finally dropped to 1 nap? At the moment she is only doing about 10-10.5hr nights and a 13.5 hr day. When they drop down to 1 nap does it go to more of a 12hr day with 11-12hrs night sleep. She has never done a 12hr night.
She does have a dummy, but can sleep without it and can replug.
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Hi,
My LO is a little over 10 months, and we've been having nap issues since she was 8.5 months old. I thought it was the 9 month regression; however, the nap issues are still on going. She's been refusing her 2nd nap in the afternoon. At this point, she is overtired so I had to move her bedtime to 5:30. It also takes her forever to fall asleep - up to an hour or two. Her schedule is as follows:
5 to 6am: awake
8:30: in crib
8:30 - 9:00: asleep
10:00 - 10:30: awake
12:30: in crib
2:30: asleep (it's hit or miss with this nap)
3:30: awake or i wake her up to preserve bedtime
5:30: bedtime (if she doesn't take the afternoon nap) asleep within 10 min
6:00: bedtime (if she takes the afternoon nap) asleep at the hour mark
For the afternoon nap, I've tried increasing and decreasing her A time, but with no luck. Today i was going to experiment with shortening her first nap to preserve the 2nd, but she's refusing her AM nap today. This doesn't happen often. I don't think she's ready to take 1 nap as she is very exhausted.
Any help/advice is appreciated!
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Hi all
Have read all the info on 2-1 transition but still not 100% on what would be best for our lo. He was taking good naps am and pm but then started early waking. I increased his first A time until it was ok again but for the last week he's taking ages to settle for his pm nap and back to waking early again. Is this the start of the 2-1 transition or just everything gone wonky lol. His routine is as follows.
Awake 7am & bottle at 7.10
breakfast 8.15
bottle 10.30/10.45
asleep for 11
awake 12.30/1
lunch 12.45/1.15
bottle 2.45
usually asleep by 3.30 but starting to take ages to settle
tea at 5/5.15
bath, bottle and usually asleep by 7.15 but sometimes takes ages to settle and other times more or less straight away.
He has always been an independent sleeper apart from age 5-7 months when paci was a prob so we got rid with hardly any problems.
Any advice would be gratefully recieved.
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Anyone know how lonf a CN should be after when LO can do an A time of 4.5hr?? Also, how long should A time be after that CN?? We do many one nap days but LO doesn't tack on ENOUGH so our day ends up starting earlier and earlier. I feel like if we did a CN we could keep the day to 12-13hr and have some consistency with WU and BT.
I have tried doing set naps but always have OT after a while so I prefer to stick with A times just a bit longer.
Any suggestions appreciated!
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We did. 4.5 A full nap, 3-3.5 A 30 min CN 2.5A till bt. Or 20 min CN 2hr A to bt hth. He started refusing the CN so we r just dealing with the ot. It stinks.
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Yes i doubt it will be easy to get him to sleep but i will do my best... :-\
Thanks for the help! Do tou think 10-15 min would give me 1.5hrs or so???
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Not sure we stopped at 30min and went to one nap. I was just done with it all. :) but give it a shot.
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Yes, I was too but then realized that I just can't handle the OT behavior anymore. His spirited side comes out full spring when he is OT and I can't handle it! Pinching, pulling hair, tantrums, the works... I much prefer to apop the life out of me, if possible! ;D
I just don't know if the apoping will work anymore, yk? He is VERY difficult to apop!
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Yeah Liam's OT behavior is not that bad. He's just really really whiny and clingy and that drives me bonkers. He is pretty impossible to apop unless he's really tired and something random woke him up I can rock him back to sleep but that's about it. :/
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Ladies how long A did you offer after a 30 min am nap? 2.5?
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My LO would do 3hrs after a 30min nap honey x
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Thanks love. I'm thinking it may be what T needs but it seems so long!
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I know, i remember reading not more than 2.5hrs after 30mins but we tried that for a week or so and she just wasn't having it. Have you tried 2.5hrs that does seem to be the average, just thinking aswell T is a few months younger than Eva isn't he. Maybe try 2hrs 40/45 is 2.5 isn't enough for him x
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Hello girls. It seems we are approaching the 2:1 too! I am dreading the actual transition but looking forward to having more time either side of the nap to do things (and of course the potential 2hrs to myself in the middle of the day ;))
I am having to do x2 1hr naps at the moment to keep things on track but wondered if one of you more experienced ladies could look over our routine and my plan and let me know what you think. Here's what we're doing currently:
8am - Get him up and bottle, (he probably wakes around 7:30am but doesn't make any noise and is happy to lie there. Occasionally he is still asleep when I go into him)
9am - breakfast
10:30am - 1st nap (I understand this may be a UT nap but as he goes down so well for it, I haven't messed with it)
11:30am - wake
12:30/1pm - lunch
3pm - 2nd nap (was messing about for half an hour before I cut the morning one to just an hour - now he settles fine)
4pm - wake
5pm - dinner
6:45pm - begin bedtime routine, bath, story and bottle
7:15/30pm - asleep
He sleeps through and doesn't wake through the night. He used to be touchy/spirited, but once we got routine sorted hes mellowed lol. I was thinking that after his birthday I'm going to structure our day better so how does this sound:
7:30am - wake
8am - breakfast with cup of milk
10:30am - nap
11am - wake
12pm - lunch
1:30pm - nap
3:30pm - wake if not awake and snack if needed
5pm - dinner
6:45/7pm - bedtime routine
7:30pm - asleep
This all sounds great in theory but is it too big of a jump? He copes well with OT and is pretty textbook now. I know that x2 1hr naps isn't going to work in the long run, and I also know I'll probably have to wave goodbye to my 8am lie in if I want him to bed at a decent time. How will I know when I can drop that morning cat nap all together?
Thanks girls xxx
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McSquirtle, you are one lucky mum! If I were you I wouldn't change a thing as things are going fabulously for you. If he goes down easy for both naps, is getting 1 hr of sleep each time and is sleeping great at night I'd stick with what's working. I'd only make changes once he starts to resist the naps. So, if he resists the am nap, then you'll need to bump up the am A time and if he resists the pm nap you could start to cut the am nap down to 45 min to see if that helps. So if I were you I wouldn't push the 2-1 transition. Some LOs don't transition to 1 nap until 18 months so there's no rush :). What do you think?
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Thanks Char, I know I'm incredibly lucky! I suppose I was just worried that either he'd struggle on x2 1hr naps and OT would build. Or that I was hindering him in some way as hes almost ready for 1 bigger nap. I will see how things progress as we pass his birthday I suppose. As you say, if its working for now then I shouldn't really mess. So once he start messing about at either nap it might be time for the jump to either; cat nap in am and longer pm, or just x1 big nap? And once x1 nap is established what would a typical day look like? (wondering how meals would fit in) x
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My DS isn't quite on one nap yet (we've had to transition him early as he's been refusing his 2nd nap for months ::)) but through the transition I've had to be flexible. We are doing a long am nap followed by a CN nap later in the day as he just wasn't a short am long pm boy. Lately I've been doing breakfast shortly after WU, a large snack (kind of like a 1/2 lunch) later in the morning and then again after he wakes from his nap, and then dinner before BT routine. So for meals you just have to be flexible. Lunch may just end up being earlier than usual or later than usual, etc.
Once he starts messing about at either nap, though, I wouldn't jump to 1 big nap. Baby steps are important as you need to get him used to longer A times before he can handle 1 nap. So once you that starts to happen, work your way into a cat nap in the am that gradually gets shorter until you transition him out of it. I've heard that just jumping to 1 nap results in big OT messes. Again, some babies are on 2 naps for quite a bit yet and if he'll do it later that's actually better because he'll handle the transition to 1 nap a lot better if he's older.
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Thank you! Great advice. He was miserable after his afternoon nap today, trying to snuggle up and go back to sleep. He soon perked up but I think he is struggling with the 2 shorter naps than he's used to. I might try 1hr 10min naps tomorrow and see if that helps.
Our lads are similar ages so its good to know where everyone is up to x
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He was miserable after his afternoon nap today, trying to snuggle up and go back to sleep. He soon perked up but I think he is struggling with the 2 shorter naps than he's used to.
Yeah, I'd just keep an eye on how he's going with the two 1hr naps - neither are as restorative as a full nap so he might struggle to get through the day, and may do better with the same or similar amount of sleep split into one shorter and one longer nap. If it's not a problem, no need to change anything, but if he is seeming OT I would try a shorter capped first nap (say 40 mins), and an uncapped second one a bit earlier ;)
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Hi everyone,
I have a 10month old baby girl, she started to wake early at 8 months so we did long am nap and short pm CN. This stopped the EW for about a month then at 9 months she started to wake at 5-5.30am. I tried to cut the CN, but it was already at 30mins.
I am now into day 4 of 1 nap, I was just wondering if this seems ok for a 10 month old, she has always had high A times, crawled early at 4.5 months old and is on the edge of walking.
WU: 6.15-6.40am
Nap: 12-2/2.30pm
BT: 7/7.30pm
Since we started the one nap, she would wake at 5am chatting then go back to sleep after about 40mins. Today however she woke at 6.15am and no nw. Does this mean she is getting use to the transition?
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Hi girls, I’m hoping someone can give me some advice! Since couple of months ago (DS is now almost 14 months) he started waking up reallllly early. He used to sleep 7pm-6am pretty much, now I’m lucky if it’s 5.30, more often it’s 5.15 or even 4.45 the other day. I moved his bedtime to 6.45 now to give him extra time, im working full time so we get back home after daycare around 5.30 by the time we had dinner etc it’s 6.30 and we quickly change him and bath him in time for 6.45pm bedtime. During the day he usually has either one longish nap (1.5 to 2 hrs) or 2 naps (totalling around 3hrs) and then with night sleep being 10 hrs that works out as 13hrs on average which I think is ok but I’m worried some days it’s 12 hours or even less in 24hr. Anyways, the EW is such a pain, I don’t know what to do, as he was always falling asleep on his own I don’t know if I should help him get back to sleep in the morning or leave him to resettle. He almost never re-settles and I get him up eventually around 6.30am, by that time he might have been awake for 1.5hrs just laying in a cot wanting to get out…
I did a diary on the last couple of days and I’m hoping someone will shed a light on what to do? Cos he wakes up so early he likes to have a long am nap, if he wakes up before 12pm from his first nap I always try to put him down for a second nap…
Day 1. Wake up 6am, only one nap of 1.5 hrs (11am-12:30pm). Bed 6.45pm
Day 2. Wake up 6.30am, 2 naps 1.5hrsa each. Bed 7pm
Day 3. Wake up 5.30am, 2 naps 1hr45min in total, bed 7pm
Day 4. Wake up 5.30am but after 15min resettled until 6.45am, one nap of 2hrs, bed 6.45
Day 5. Woke up 4.45!!!!! Had 2 naps 1.5hrs each, bed 7pm
Day 6. Woke up 6am, had 2 naps 1.45hrs in total, bed 7pm
Day 7.Woke up 6am, had 2 naps 1.5hrs each, bed 7pm
Day 8. Woke up 5.15am, had 2 naps but only 1hr15min in total for both, so went to bed at 6.45, woke up 5.30. In total only had 11.5hrs in 24 but feeling a bit sick now so might be that
Day 9. Woke up 5.30am, had only 1 nap 1.5 hrs, refused a second nap, went to bed 6.30pm, woke up at 9pm (never ever happened before) and didn’t fall asleep until , midnight!!!!!! I thought he’d sleep in then but nope, woke up this morning at 5.30am In total only had 9.5hrs in the last 24 he’s a bit sick now so blaming that…
I’m just so sick worried about him being under sleeping and overtired and waking up more, what can I do to fix EW and OT?
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Hi everyone!
My DD is now 15 months, and about a month or so ago she started dropping her pm nap. Her routine was approximately as this:
btw 6:45-7:15-wake
7:15- BF
7:45-breakfast
8:00-9:30- A time
9:30-nap until 10:45-11
11:15-lunch
11:45-2:00-A time
2:00-3:00- 1 hour nap
3:15-snack
3:30-A time
5:30-6-dinner
6:30-bath
7:00-BF
7:30- in bed awake- falls asleep almost as soon as I leave the room
Now, as I said, she use to love her am nap...but because it was a longer one she started to drop her pm nap lately, but I still leave her in bed from 2-3 pm because occasionally she would still sleep, say 90% of the time.
This past week, she started to drop the morning nap all along, so after a few tries, I started not putting her down for her am nap, and extended her morning A time, so I put her down after lunch (12pm) and was expecting her to sleep 2:30-3 hours, but she has been sleeping between 30 and 50 minutes, and after that doesn't fall asleep anymore. She stays in bed quite, playing with her blankie, or keeps babbling on and off and moving all over until I go get her...
What is your opinion on that? Should I stick to the after lunch nap? Should I keep her in bed the whole nap time to see if she falls back asleep, after a EW? I'm so confused.
On another note, she skipped both naps all along in some days. She doesn't seem to be teething at this time, or have any discomfort, and she seems ok with the longer morning A time.
Looking forward to some advice, and thank you in advance!
S.
Below is a copy of a tread from the toddler sleep section, unfortunately with no success :
"Hi! I just want to check. Have you gone from what was a 9.30am nap to a 12noon nap? And how are her nights?
Hena"
"Hi! Yes, pretty much a sudden change...as soon as she started to skip her am nap... Her nights are never a problem, pretty much 7:30pm to 6:45-7am... S."
"Happy days re: the nights, you luck sausage!!! Well my gut feeling is that perhaps the push in the nap from 9.30 to 12noon in one hit is perhaps too big a jump and why you're getting short naps. She may be IT. Certainly 30m naps here are OT. I would suggest you try something like 11am in the 1st instance and push out from there?
What do you think? Hena"
"Absolutely, nights are good, and hoping the day naps don't start messing that up : ) Yes, I agree with you, it might be too much although she seems fine... so when would I give her lunch if I put her down at 11am? Kinda worried she will wake up hungry... and should I let her sleep one nap only, say from 11- 2? Not sure if I should try to let her have a cat nap at like 10:30am and then try a pm nap? I'm really confused... the problem here is that she barely gives me any tired cues... and the afternoons are very long for her...Would love to hear how other 15 month olds are doing the transition and how their days are looking like re. A and S time...I may try a 10am nap today and then try a 2pm nap at least if she may get 2 hours of sleep, other then 30 and 50 min, or no naps at all... my DS was sleeping from 12 to 3pm at 12mo, but go figure... they are all so different.... Any advise or ideas on this situation are welcome! Thank you! S. "
"I wouldn't go back to 2 naps if your LOs successfully transitioning to 1 with no real problems. With my DD, I did a half and half thing on the lunch front when she napped at 11 during the transition. So is give her something at 10.15/30 and then when she woke (usually after 3hrs) with dinner at 5pm.
It felt a bit odd to me giving her part if her lunch at that tone but she didn't know any different a d it got us through to a decent nap time without getting stuck with OT.
Hth x"
"I see... I will try that... So, I tried putting her down at 10 am, but she didn't nap... So I will try another nap at around 11-11:30 since she was in her crib for 30 min. playing quietly...that may work until she is ready to stay up until 12pm... Thank you! I'll let you know how we did! S."
"No real luck... After trying a 10 am nap today, I went to get her at 10:25 ish, as she only played quietly in her crib... so after that I gave her some of her lunch at around 10:45ish and put her back in bed at 11:20...she played around as she has been doing lately, until 11:50, and then woke up at 12:25pm so another short nap... now she is in bed playing again... what to do? She rolls around, stands, sits, babbles, and keeps it going for a long time... she doesn't sound very happy now, kind of winning a bit like she is tired, but unable to settle... Any advice is welcome!Thanks! S."
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Ills, when Z went to 1 nap T 1/11 mths I tried to give him a 12 hr day, if you think it's worth a shot (and she may tack on) then try an earlier BT, maybe 6.30 :-*
I had to throw in the odd CN too on rough days x
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Hi zacsmummy
I really don't think she will tack on sleep as she never has. She is going to sleep by 7.30pm and the past 6 days has woke at 6am. Yesturday we did 2 naps as we had to go out and she still woke at 6am this morning.
She seems to only do 10.5hrs over night.
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Hi Ladies~
Looking for some advice on the big switch. What are the tell tale signs LO is ready to switch to 1 nap? Is it better to tweak the 2 naps for awhile if 1 nap doesn't seem to work everyday and we have to switch back to 2?
Thanks!!!
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Did some digging since my post and found the helpful breakdown for the transition. It does seem that my LO is too young for the switch at 11 months. Here is the thing, some days when he wakes at 6 or 7 am, he does not nap until closer to 12 or just after. He will then sleep 2 or 2.5 hours but then he is so tired by 5:30 but it is too soon for BT as I have a 10 yr old and there are so many things to be done after 5 everyday- not to mention the days I don't get home until around then. I sometimes try just a CN around 5:30 but then I think that is too late and messes up BT.
Aside- LO has rarely slept through the night. Sometimes longer stretches but not through the night. I usually say it does not bother me because I know how fast time flies but he is almost 12 months!! I should really deal with this sleep problem as well.
Thanks.
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Hugs, could you do EBT of 6 on those days? Or a 20 min CN at 5 with 7.30 BT?
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EBT at 6 is highly unlikely. I have tried the CN but not for 20 minutes. I could try that and use no sound machine so likely he will wake earlier and we could see how that goes for a couple days. Of course, right now he is all over the place and just had a nap at 9:15 this morning so clearly he will have a second nap today.
In general, I am beginning to think my major problem is the somewhat later BT. DH does not come home until almost 7 and then there is dinner time, which always seem to topple over into LO's BT. He has never really slept through the night and perhaps that is all related to later and erratic BT. Although the times I have tried EBT at around 630, it has seemed to not a make difference but maybe I have to try it over a few days and not just hope for a miraculous surprise!
Here is my question... how much daytime sleep and night sleep should he be getting? 3 hour nap total and 12 hour sleep? With the frequent NW, I think we are not even close to 12 hours. What do I tackle first? NW? or nap consistency?
Thanks again!
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She seems to only do 10.5hrs over night.
Hello Ills!
I have a 9.5 month old who seems to be showing signs that he may be getting ready for a transition. He is also close to walking soon. He also usually falls asleep around 7:30 as well. I've determined him to be a low sleep needs kiddo. He usually only sleeps 13-14 hrs/day - has done that pretty regularly since he was 1-2 months old. That being said, EBT and SEBT didn't really work for us when we were working out EW's. We did it for a good 2-3 weeks. Just really want to send you hugs and support.
My little guy just started making his morning nap a really long nap. he usually only sleeps 2.75 hrs/day in his naps. Yesterday he actually did that in one nap from 11-1:45 and last night he slept horribly and was awake at 0630 - which he hasn't done in a while. Usually he sleeps until 0715. So anyways. We're going to cap his morning nap a little bit when we can so he will at least take a catnap in the evening and see how that goes. Whatever you end up doing, I hope it goes well! I know when our little guy had his NW's and EWs, he just eventually "grew" out of it and we've been having great sleep for a while. Of course, now it seems he wants to start the 2-1 transition. Just when you got it figured out, they change it up on you.
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Thanks BNM
We are in the transition now. Since starting just doing 1 nap a day it has seemed to stop the EW and she is waking at 6-6.30am. I've just stuck to a set nap at 12pm however the nap length is all over the place one day it can be 2.5hrs the next 1.45hrs and like today only 1hr!!!
Iam hoping it settles
I tried to but her down for a CN this arvo after she only slept an hour at her nap and she just played/cried for 20muns so I got her up. Will see how it goes with EBT but I don't think it will happen.
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Hi ladies,
I'm back and were well and truly in the 2-1 now. T was sick for a while so A times went way back. ::)
Looking at something like this
WU 6.30
Nap 10.30-12 or longer (with the plan to push that A time and increase the nap length)
CN 3.5-4 hrs later (if nap finishes before 1pm) of 20-30 mins
BT 7 (or if nap finishes at 1 then 6pm)
We're having BT antics :-\ not settling etc until 3 hrs after a 30 min CN so I think I have to cap at 20
What are you ladies doing - those of you on a long am?
Ills - have things settled?
BnM - my first LO sounds like yours ;) I actually kept the long nap with 6pm BT and if he woke before 1pm did a 20 min CN. But then he slepts better with his sleep consolidated YK?
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Hi Zacsmummy
This are a bit over the place at the moment. LO got sick last week so naps were everywhere and some days 2 naps other only 1.
She has been waking at 6am every morning then a nap at 12pm this will range from 1.5-2.5 hrs then BT at 7-7.30pm.
This morning she woke at 5am playing then tried to get back to sleep but couldn't and began crying at 5.30am. I had to rock her and she was asleep at 6.20am and slept till 7.30am then he was so cranky at 11.45 so she was in bed at 11.55am and is still asleep and its 2.30pm. I normally wouldn't bother about the rocking if it was closer to 6am but I could see she was still tired. She was fighting sleep much. I just seem to have a problem with her waking too early before she is ready, but how do I stop this? I don't want to CIO and she has already had 10-10.5hrs of sleep when she wakes so patting doesn't work.
Other days I've tried the CN in the morning but she just plays.
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Sickness ruins everything! How old is she now? We're kind of stuck as T is only doing 1.5 hrs after 4 hrs A. I think I need to push it to get a longer nap but I'm scared!
We're having a few EW. I'm not sure if its teeth or OT :-\ do you think teething cold be part of there problem? I'm terrible - I APOP at EW ;)
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She's 11.5 months old now. I have given up on a times as they varied so much, likeyesturday we did 5.5hrs a time and got 2hr nap then other times I'll only get 1.5hrs and like today she was over it after only 4.5hrs and slept 3hrs???
She has been teething but Iam unsure if that is was is causing the EW. Her WU varies all the time so she can sometimes go 6hr a if she's up at 6am. I just wish she would settle into something. Today was good after she went back to sleep and woke at 7.30am nap at 11.55-2.40pm and BT at 7.15pm out like a light (but that could be cause she is sick)
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Hi everyone
Still going through the 2-1 and wanted to get some insight. LO is about 2 weeks off from being 1 and we started the transition at about 10 months. She has been on the 1 nap now for about a month and a bit. She will wake anywhere from 5.50-6.45am usually 6 or 6.15am we have her set nap at 12pm which goes for about 2 hrs then BT at 7-7.15pm.
When she wakes early at the 5.45 or even 6 am mark it's a long time till 12pm and sometimes I have to really keep her occupied. She is a low sleep needs bub didn't even get 12 hrs overnight when transitioning boo. So was wondering should I keep it as it is? She has just started daycare 2 days a week and that's the routine they do. However she only slept 1 hr at care.
Any ideas???
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Hello all! I'm also going through the 2-1, my dd is11.5 mo and I am doing first A 4.20 then anything between 1.30-2.30 hr nap then things get tricky. I try to get a 15-20 min cat nap in around 5-5:30 (depending on wu time) otherwise ill do ebt of 6/6:30. I'm wondering though, will there be some days she only had one nap if its a long 2.30hr one? I'm only giving her a 10-15cn now as bt is 1.30 min away but she did sleep for 2.20 min 1st nap. Is that ok? Could we only do one nap on long nap days?
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Ills. She may be getting more OT at daycare. I know Z gets OT and OS at daycare and he is almost 3 and only goes 3hrs 2 x a week ;) you could try an earlier nap on the days after day are to help her cu, if she will take it and sleep longer it may help. I do this with Z as he doesn't nap on daycare days - so his nap is earlier on the next day and longer (he's in the 1-0 though ;) )
Hi natbug. Can I call you NB? Your LO sounds just like us ATM with T. The CN is such a pain! We have had to push him a little more as I have Z to consider. I try to get T to do 2hr + and if not then offer a CN in the car. If he wakes before 1.5 hrs I try to resettle. We also do EBT of 6-6.30 on no CN days or 4.5-5 hrs A. Tonight he is OT though ::) he slept in but only napped 1.5 so he's OT at BT and we have already had an ENW ::)
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Thanks Zacsmumme,
Today we did 2 naps, she had swimming lessons this morning and was cranky after so at 10.15am I layed her down in the pram with her teddy and dummy and she fell asleep woke at 10.45am, then got cranky again at 1.45pm so bottle and bed and I had to wake her at 4.05pm and then BT at 7.30pm. Iam just so unsure of everything at the moment as WU times tend to move around a lot.
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Yah WU times move heaps here too and I like to let my boys sleep in if I can to encourage good nights YK?
My first I had a good set of rules around the day. Based on his A times, nap length and WU.?it helped me now what to do on the undesirable days ::) ie if WU before 6.30 and nap ends before 1 then offer CN 4 hrs later. If nap 2hrs+ and aftr 1 pm then EBT of 6 or 4.5-5 hrs A
It's harder with T but I'm trying to work him out. how long can your LO do after a 20 min CN? T can do 3 hrs on 30 mins like your LO.
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Zacsmumme - We have been using similar guidelines with nap after 1 and ebt. That works for her but we end up pushing her a more toward the 5hr a d/t ds, yk? At least she's easy to resettle...hope she was easier for dh. :-(
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So this morning she woke at 5.50am. It's 10am now and she is doing well. Iam just going to go with it today and try with the 1 nap. Also daylight savings starts here soon so what do I do then?
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Hey iam so not sure if iam doing the right thing here. My LO is all over the shop lately. So she has been waking up at 6am no matter what I do I can't seem to get her to sleep later sometimes she'll go to 630am. She use to be able to last until 11.30-12pm then have a nap that would last 2hrs then BT at 7.-7.30pm.
Lately in the past week she has been falling asleep at about 10am if we are out in the car or pram. Then I do another nap at 2pm. Iam not sure I I should push her to last or go back to 2 naps. She was doing well on the 1 nap. Is there any developmental reason why her A times have droped? She will be 1 in 2 weeks. Also when she has the 2 naps she seems to wake at 5.45am any thoughts?
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Hey iam so not sure if iam doing the right thing here. My LO is all over the shop lately. So she has been waking up at 6am no matter what I do I can't seem to get her to sleep later sometimes she'll go to 630am. She use to be able to last until 11.30-12pm then have a nap that would last 2hrs then BT at 7.-7.30pm.
Lately in the past week she has been falling asleep at about 10am if we are out in the car or pram. Then I do another nap at 2pm. Iam not sure I I should push her to last or go back to 2 naps. She was doing well on the 1 nap. Is there any developmental reason why her A times have droped? She will be 1 in 2 weeks. Also when she has the 2 naps she seems to wake at 5.45am any thoughts?
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Ills could it be teething?
Or you think it's cumulated OT :-\ our days are all really diff ATM too, WU either early or late ::) T has 3 teeth coming so I'm putting some of it down to that YK?
Which way is your DLS - our clocks go forward in a week
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DLS is forward an hr. I think it might be teething she is so whiny and clingy throwing tantrums too.
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Hi,
Just wanted to check if this EASY seems alright as it seems that my LO is reverting back to 2 naps.
WU: 6am
Nap 1: 10.15-10.45am
Nap2: 2-3.30/4pm
BT: 7.00-7.30pm
It has just been the past week that she has begun to fall asleep in the car for the first nap, before she would go until 11.30/12pm and sleep till 2pm. Iam not to sure if I was pushing hero much? Iam just worried as she goes to daycare 2 days a week and they normally have the 1 sleep, and the last time she went she only slept from 12-1.05pm and that was from a WU of 6.30am. Iam going to talk to the teacher tomorrow and just explain that she is going through this.
I just can't seem to get her to sleep past 6am and on rare occasions do we get a 6.30am WU.
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Do you think this is from teething? T is doing the a bit and it's teething related :-\
Other thing it could be is if she has started to walk? This can make them more tired?
I'd say if your doing the am CN then you may need to cap the PM at 1.5 to get the longer night ;)
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I can't see any teeth coming but it's like she's teething all the time LOL. She has just started to walk, not all by herself, she will walk between my DH and I, I thought she could be getting tired from becoming more active. Today she did a 30min CN in the morning and then second nap started at 2pm and I woke her at 3.40pm, so I guess we will see what happens tomorrow.
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What about giving her a 20 min CN rather than a 30 min...then off the pm nap 2-2.5 hrs after. It may make the day shorter and encourage the longer night? (I say this all while our routine is rubbish today thanks to teething ::) )
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Iam not to sure if that will work as she has never done longer than 11hrs overnight. I think she will always be an early bird but it just makes it hard to deop down to that one nap. Yeah teething can stuff everything up. I hope T's teeth pop through soon :)
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Yeah, I have to say I'm in a pickle here too as T is FINALLY STTN but doing 11 hrs so I can't seem to fit 1 nap in...he needs the CN too. ::) :P
I'm aiming for this
WU 6
Nap 10.30-12
CN 4.15-4.40
BT 6.45-7
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It's so hard when they don't do the 12 hrs overnight. I don't think she ever will lol so iam rolling with it now. This morning she woke up at 6.30am but she's at daycare today so not sure how sleep will go. I told them if she's cranky to put her down at 10.30am for 20-30mins but she was super happy today so I think she will last to the 12pm hopefully she will sleep longer than an hr.
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This thread is so long, I am having trouble finding the information I need on the 2-1 transition. It looks to me like the 2-1 transition still includes 2 naps, just that 1 is much shorter, like 30-45 min, is that right? Can someone please give me the basic guideline for the 1 nap day? We were thinking that in a 12 hour day (7a-7p), we would just drop the 1 nap right in the middle at about 12p. Would this be a bad idea? Is it preferred to have a longer A in the AM or PM? would 5 hour A times separated by a 2 hour nap be ok? Why is it called a "2-1" transition if there are still 2 naps? When and how do you transition to an actual 1 nap day?
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If you go to the Frequently Asked Questions you'll see a topic called "From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)" and "10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)". I don't know how to insert a direct link to those, sorry. Those should answer some of your questions. It's a tricky time. Some handle the transition better than others. I hope your LO is one who transitions okay!
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Thank you
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You are most welcome! Feel free to post if some of your questions don't get answered by the links I gave you. There are many lovely women here who will gladly help you!
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Ok so I think it will never matter when my LO sleeps as she is still waking at 6am. Yesturday she woke at 6.30am went to day care and had 2 sleeps one at 10-11am and then 3-4pm as I woke her up and then BT at 7.30pm and she woke this morning at 6am. It doesn't seem to matter if I do one nap or two naps arrggh
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Hi gabi, yes this is just a thread for support during the sometimes tiresome process of moving to 1 nap ;)
Ills, my first only everdid10.5 hr long nights when he had 2 naps, if we had a CN day it was a 10.5 hr night ::) I really had to push the A times so that a CN day meant a later BT, and a non CN day meant a longer nap.
Ie 6.30
Nap 11-1 or later
B 6 or 5 hrs from WU.
Or 6.30
Nap 11-12.30 - boo need a CN so
CN 4hrs15 from nap ie 4.45-5.05
BT 7.15 or so(or if CN longer BT later)
Eventually with the CN at only 20 mins and long A to nap (I pushed to 5 hrs by 12 mths I think) WU became closer to 7 and BT usually 6.30-7 with a long nap.
T is another kettle of fish ;) - were teething so I think that's why we had a terrible night last night. I'm sitting with baited breath as he naps...10.50-? It's now 12.35 and I need him to get to 1!
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Today she did really well at daycare. They tried the nap at 10am and she refused and then did a nap from 11.45-2pm and that was from a 6am WU. So today bedtime will be 7pm. So overall I think a pretty good day.
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That's a great day!
Ts nap ended at 1.05 with 5.50 BT but his top insissor is erupting poor boy. I'm hoping for an ok ifT as I'm on m own eeek
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Poor little thing, I hate when they are teething so much pain. L's BT was at 7.10pm out like a light. Sending hugs as I know what it's like on your own
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Hi after reading most of the posts I think my LO is starting the 2-1. She is almost 9.5 mths and has been doing this schedule for 3-4 weeks after lots of tweaking. Maybe you guys here can help me out n have a look at my schedule to see if its okie. I have tried set naps and tweaking a time and she is most happy with long am and short pm. She is also quite a high a time girl.
We were having earlier waking ofn0545-0600 for a few weeks and recently settled
So currently she is happy with this schedule.
Wu 0615-0630 I only pick her up at 0645 so she happily lay in bed waiting to be pick up.
S1010-1125 (1hr 15min)
Needs an a time of at least 3.75 after an 1hr nap otherwise she will just roll in bed n will not have a pm nap
S1525-1555 wakes up herself
Bt 1900
No night waking.
I am thinking of pushing the first a time out slowly to see it will lengthen the am nap. As for pm nap, I have given up, I have tried shorter n longer a time but she just won't nap longer than 30 mins very very rarely she will give me 50-1hr nap but still wakes up grumpy not as restorative as am nap. She is happy after 30 mins nap so instead of fighting with her to resettle her I just get her up so we both are happy. Her sleep cycle is 35 mins, she will stir at 35 mins mark or wake up on the dot at 35 mins so I figure that is how long her sleepy cycle is.
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Hey Hun, that looks good, especially since she STTN.
I think you have it right for her, push the A time out more to get a longer nap, then reduce the pm nap to 20 mins a bit later with a shorter A to BT.
My kids have 35-38 min sleep cycles too!
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Hi zacmumme
I'm struggling to push my bb first a time out to give me at longer nap of 1.5
She woke up at 0615 n I didn't pick her up till 0645 so I count that as half awake time 15mins (0630)
Then put her down at 1015, she only Slept 50min n wake up grumpy. The second time I did the same only 45min
Today wake up 0547 pick up at 0635 asleep at 0955 wake up 1055 so only 1 hr nap...
So annoying how do I get a longer morning nap. the best nap is 1hr 15.
I have given up on afternoon nap long time ago no matter what I do only 30-40min.
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I think they are UT naps Hun. Can you it try pushing the first a to 3hrs45-4 hrs from out of cot. Keep the last 15 mins quiet and relaxed A time. I would keep pushing tut gently every 3-5 days till the nap extends.
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Hi zacmumme,
Is it a good idea to count half awake time for when bb like in bed says woke up at 0600 lying in bed quietly by herself playing then get picked up at 0630 so count that as 15 mins awake time rather than 30mins?
But when she woke up at 0615 n I picked her up at 0645 then put her down n asleep at 1015 she woke up after 50min crying n grumpy. Isn't that signs that she is overtired rather than undertired? So confused... That is an awake time of 3hr 45min ( half the awake time lying in bed before I pick her up).
Thank you for ur advice. Figuring this out is so so hard.
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Sorry mummy zacmumme got a few more questions. Today my easy looks like this
Wu 0625
A 3hr 50
S 1015-1140 (1hr 25min) hasn't been this long for a long time
A 4hr
Tried to put down at 1535 aiming to be asleep at 1540 so a time 4 hr but she is having non of it crying and screaming demand to be picked up. Finally gave in n pick her up thinking I will try to rock her to sleep but she kept pushing me and kicking her way out n I continue to hold tight n eventually after 10 mins fall asleep in my arm n I put her down in her cot. So
S 1600-1630
Now is that too much A time and she is overtired that is y she is crying n kicking or undertired???????
Woke up n have dinner go for a walk n she is very happy. The thing is now she is older is hard to tell if she is tired. She normally doesn't show any signs n happily playing n full of beans until I put her down then she starts to rub her eyes. So hard to figure her out.
So hard to figured out her afternoon nap.
So I do early bedtime a 1900, put down at 1850 she kept crying n as soon as I pick her up she stopped , puts down again she screamed n cried so I kept trying to comfort her in her cot without picking her up eventually after 15 mins she calmed down. N finally fell asleep at 1915. She hardly ever does that I don't understand? Overtired or undertired???
Pls help!!!
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Sorry Hun, I have two sick kiddos ATM...
I think all LOs are different re cot time. I did half time with, y first - he was touchy, but my second seems to need a full A from out of the cot.
Wrt the 50 min nap and crying it could be OT, but it could also be it but still tired, just not tired enough to stay asleep YK?
I think unless you have a 'cut off' WU ie in this house WU is no earlier than 6 (usually 6.30-7 thoh) then I'd just get your LO up and start the day.
I find usually when OT my boys go to sleep fast, but then wake more, or are unsettled before going to sleep ie crying through BT routine. If they fight me it is Ut or developmental. Sometimes OS.
HTH x
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Hi Zacmumme sorry to hear that both your LO are sick. Poor bubba. Hope they recover soon. U need to take care too. Thanks for taking time to reply. Appreciate it.
Yesterday was a very good day.
Wake up 0610 pick up 0640
A 3hr 45
S 1000-1050
A time 3hr 40
S 1430-1540 ( pd at 1425 sleep in less than 5 mins no fusing at all) but wake up in between n back to sleep in a few mins. So so rare!!!!
BT 0645
I find that if she naps 2hr during the day she will only have a 11hr night max. I guess hence early wake this morning at 0545 ish I think.
Today not sure what time she wakes up so quiet didn't hear anything until I look at the monitor at 0550 she is lying down quietly with eyes open. Didn't call out for me till 0625
So pd and asleep at 1000 so a time of 3hr 55 fingers crossed she sleeps longer.
In the main nap post I saw another mum's schedule I think is tinkerbell
Wu 0700
A 4hr
S-11-1
A3hr 30
S 45min
A3hr
Bt 8pm/830pm
I think the a time is similar to my little one so if I can successfully push out the first a time to 4 hr for little one then my schedule will look like this
Wu 0630
A 4hr
S 1030-1200
A3hr45
S1545-1615
A 3hr
BT 1915
This is me my ideal schedule for my bb that I am aiming for. But unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. So I can only hope.
Thanks for ur advice.
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That looks good Hun. Your ideal is what we did when T started the 2-1 ;) I capped the pm at 40 mins. Then when his As jumped to 4hrs15-30 I capped at 25/30 mins with a 2.5 hr A a to BT x
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Oh dear my almost 10mth old baby sleep gone to pots again.
Have been trying to push a time to 4 hr but not successful.
Wu 0600 pu 0630
Pd 1000 asleep 1005 S 1005-1040 wake up crying mantra crying moaning trying to resettle but won't go back to sleep
A 3hr 25
S 1410-1445
Refused to go back to sleep.
Bt 1830
Help!!! What has go e wrong. Three days in a row. Everything has gone wrong. :'( :'(
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Hi everyone
Having read the posts a lot of babies seem to be going through this transition a lot sooner than my DD however she has always needed her sleep.
We are also going through a lot of changes but have realised that she may be displaying signs of needing to transition from 2-1.
E is 1 year , 2 weeks old.
Up to two weeks ago I would have said she was like clockwork most of the time.
With a 1 hr nap in the morning ( I had to wake up) and 1.5 hr nap in the afternoon.
She did this even at the childminders on her settling in days.
Then just around two weeks ago things have changed and we are struggling to get more than 30 mins naps. She is then very tired and we have moved BT earlier and earlier.
Also last week we had some bad nights due to teething I think.
I suppose what I am asking is what are the signs that she is ready to drop that am nap as she does display tiredness signs.
The new 'routine' seems to be
WU 7ish -we wake
Bottle
Breakfast at childminders 8.15
Nap 1 10ish- 30 mins. Wakes crying but soon cheers up
12pm lunch
Nap 2 2pm (30 mins) this nap used to be 1.30-3pm
Dinner 4.15/30
BT is now earlier than 6.30pm as she is so tired.
My childminder is great and will stick to or try and adjust E's day. She has a daughter 1 day older than Eliza who still mainly does the 2 naps as well.
I am just not sure if I need to push her through the morning and how to do that and then when to do lunch etc if she is only going to have 1 nap.
Thanks for any help x
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Miraclelim - how are things now?
Claire - could you leave the am nap at 30 mins and then offer the pm nap 3 hrs later (so a little earlier.) she could be UT/OT YK?
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Hi we have three days of very ideal nap. I decided to bite the bullet and increase a time by another 10-15 mins and woohoo ever since she has been taking 1.20 to 1.5 hr nap and 30-40 mins nap in the afternoon bedtime at 1900-1900. We had a night wake last night with is unheard of. She was mantra crying like in discomfort so I thought may be she is teething, waiting for the top teeth to come thru. So I gave her some homeopathic meds and she settles in 50 mins. But I also realise that no matter what time she sleeps at bedtime she always wakes at 0600 :-( that means 2 hr day nap and night sleep from 1930 to 0600 n.y 10.5 hr + 2 hr = only 12.5 hr.. Not sure how I can push her wake up time to 0630. Last night she went to bed at 1900 night wake crying on n off for 1 hr and wake up this am at 0640. :-\ so not sure . Any advise? Thanks zacmumme for checking on me.
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Hi Guys, Iam new to this post also but desperately need some advise! My DD is just short of 10 months and always had a 2 hr nap in am and a 2 hr nap in the pm with no NW and no sleep props since 5 months. At 7.5 mths she went through 5 weeks of sleep regression that nearly killed me but when she came through it she did about a week of 1.5 hr naps twice a day which was perfect, HOWEVER, over the last 2 weeks her nap times and sleep itself has just fallen apart and I really dont have a clue what Iam suppose to be doing to help the situation :'( (As you can prob tell Iam a first time Mum!). Prior to all this her schedule looked something like this
WU - 7.00 -7.30 am
1st nap - 9.30/10.00 am - 11.30/12.00
2nd nap - 3.00 - 4.00pm
Bed - 7.00 - 7.30pm
To make matters worse, for the past few weeks it just so happened that we had different appointments and things to do that we could never manage to stick to regular nap times like before. Her schedule now looks something like this
WU - 7.00- 7.30am
1st nap - 10.30 - 11.30am (capped at 1 hr)
2nd nap - maybe 3.45 - 4.15ish after chatting, crying and me not going back in
Bed - 7.00pm (with her eyeballs hanging out of her head with tirdness)!!
We did have a few mornings last week of EW's which were getting progressively earlier so I pushed the morning nap from 7.00 to 10.30am and we havent had an EW in the last couple of days. The problem is she loves her morning sleep and is fighting the afternoon nap so basically I need all the help and advice I can get to help her get through this transition but I dont know where to start or what to do. I saw on older posts that Papaya had some advice on the afternoon nap refusal but just dont know how (http://)to implement these changes, HELP ME PLEASE :-[
Sorry for the rant, think I just needed to offload some steam there!
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my lo seems to be on the same boat as every one else. 1hr-1.5hr nap in the AM and 30 min nap in the PM. she is at 3.5hr A time now, but i am increasing to 4hr bec i really think she just needs one nap. prob is that she won't sleep long enough to make it on one nap. yesterday i gave her the full 4hr and only slept 45 min so i had to give her a late pm nap/ my problem is that i do not like having such a late pm nap/bedtime. she is 10.5 months old.
any advice? is 4hrs to much for this age? she is puting up such a fight at the pm nap its just not worth the effort anymore, but i think that a 5 hr A time in the pm would be too much
6:30 wake
10:00-11:15 nap
3:15-3:45 nap
a 4hr easy would be like this:
6:30 wake
10:30-11:30
3:30-4:00 nap
i really want to aim to get a 11:00 nap and then i think she can make it to 6:00 bedtime
what do u think???
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Thought I would start posting on this thread as I think that my DD is starting the 2-1 transition - she is 10.5 months old.
Until about 2 weeks ago she slept about 11.5 hours at night and took 2 x 1.5 hours naps with an A time of 3 hours each time she was awake. Then she had a few 40 minute am naps and started waking up before 6 in the morning (7pm bedtime)
The last few days have been:
WU 5.45am
Get out of bed 6.30am (I count her A time from here)
Nap 10.00am for 1 hour (I wake her)
Nap 2.20pm ish - 4pm (I usually wake her)
Bedtime 7pm
With this routine for awhile she was waking at 6.30am but now it seems to be getting earlier again (which I am not loving!) so was wondering about cutting her morning nap to 45 mins and maybe extending her time to bed.
The thing is that she will happily go down for her naps no matter how short her A time - for example once a week we do 3 hours A time still because of swimming and she will still nap!
Am worrying that the EW could be due to something different (some places say actually EW can be OT?!) She is quite happy to lie in her bed just sucking her thumb or rolling around in the morning.
Any thoughts?!
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Shirat have you tried capping the am nap? With your EAS the day may look like this for a bit
WU 6.30
CN 10-10.30
Nap 1-2.30-3
BT 6.30-7
Hi beeann - I doubt your LO will be OT with that routine ;) I think you have a good plan. Cap that am nap maybe at 40 mins and then offer a pm one 2.5 hrs later. Ew is often due to a nap too early in the day or too long of one so your other option is to push the am nap later and leave it uncapped. You really want 1hr20 min though, then you give a short pm CN and short A to BT.
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Hi patsy how you going Hun? - I think you need to cap that am nap more - maybe 40 mins with a 3 hr A after.
Feel free to post on the main boards ladie (naps, or if LO is over 1 then toddler sleep) for specific advice. This thread is for us to all support each other :-* (http://)
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Hi ZM,
Its the NW here again thats the problem so off to another board I go ;)
Catch up with you on the birthclub
No advice for BeeAnn or SHirat as I am certainly not succeeding with my LO ;D
x
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Hugs Claire!
Our days are shaping up like this now
WU 6.30-7
A 4.5-5 hrs
Nap 11.30-1.30 (nap ranges 1.5-2.5 hrs)
A 4hrs45-5hrs
BT 6.15-7
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Hi ZacsMumme,
Thank You sooo much for your reply and checking up on us :) At the start of this week we had a very rough time. I was capping her am nap at 1 hr and then having pm nap 3.5 hrs later but she was fighting it and still only sleeping roughly for 30 min - 1 hr give or take a few mins which resulted in crying at BT really hard and ENW's. For the last 2 days because I am not sure what I should be doing, Ive let her lead the way so our days were like this
Wednesday:
WU - 7.15am
Nap 1 - 10.35 12.25am
Nap 2 - 3.40 - 4.30pm (capped)
BT - 7.40pm STTN ;D
Thursday:
WU - 7.20am
Nap 1 - 11.00 - 12.00pm (woke up due to noise outside)
Nap 2 - 4.00 - 4.50pm (capped)
BT - 7.35pm (1 NW @ 12.30 - 12.55am)
Today so far:
WU - 7.45 (woke her up)
Nap 1 - 10.45 - 1.00pm
Nap 2 - 4.20 - 5.05pm (capped)
BT - 8.05 - 7.55am (had to wake her) & STTN
What does anyone think? She seems more settled with a long am nap and short pm nap but our BT's seem to be getting later with this plan. When I capped the am nap earlier in the week I still couldnt get a long pm nap which resulted in BT meltdown and NW's etc. Should I stick with what she's happy with and try and push am nap later and cut out pm nap over time or go back to capping am nap and trying for longer pm nap (which seems to have left her really out of sorts) Does it matter which nap is the one that gets dropped eventually???
All Advice Greatly Received and Appreciated as I am a 1st time totally clueless Mum who is going back to work in 4 weeks which will probably wreck our whole routine again as I dont think she'll sleep in the creche at all. She's so used to her own cot in her own room and a quiet house :-\
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That looks good, Both my boys preferred a long am.
What I would do it pull that pm CN right back to 30 mins. Then try BT 2.53 hrs later. Prob try 2.5 first.
So your day becomes this
WU 7.15
Nap 11-1
CN 4.30-5
BT 7.45
You have to gently push the m nap later to cover lunch, and if the nap goes past 1pm you may want to consider EBT of 6. The CN can get as short as 20 mins too to preserve BT or the day can get long.
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Thanks ZacsMumme,
I really didn't know what I should do. The problem also is that prior to this she had a BT of 7 - 7.15pm and was STTN but now I find with her longer A times BT has gotten pushed back to anywhere between 7.30 & 8pm. Also some mornings she is tired at 10am ish but I was holding out till 10.30am before nap and looking back the one great night sleep we had was the day her am nap was at 10.35am for just under 2 hrs and I capped pm nap at 50 min but again it left BT late at 7.40pm (maybe it was just a stroke of good luck that she STTN). Is it normal to have longer days during this transition period?
I just cant seem to figure her out lately, she was always 10 - 11.30/12 am nap and 3-4 pm nap with BT 7pm and STTN but now at 10 mths in 3 days time she's tired at different times every day and has different A times everyday also. Would I be ruining things if I capped am nap at 1.5 hrs and bring pm catnap forward to keep BT earlier (does that even make sense or do you only cap 1 nap)? I would love to try and keep her somewhere between 7.15 am - 7.15pm :-\
Dont know what Iam going to do when she starts creche, I doubt she's even going to close her eyes while there, never mind have a 2 hr am nap :'(
Also, how do you know when to pull back the capped pm nap from say 40 - 30 min and 30 - 20 min etc? Sorry for asking so many questions but I seem to have lost the instruction manual that came with DD when she was born !
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I would only cap 1 nap. If you want al ong am then cap the pm at 30 mins then go for Bt 2.5hrs or so later. You can cap at 40 mins fist but a lot of LOs can do a full A on a 40/45 min nap ::) x
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Hi Everyone,
My Lo is 10 months old and we have been in the 2-1 transition for awhile now. We started out capping his afternoon nap until he started refusing it and now we have been capping his morning nap. I don't like doing this because it has always been his best nap but not sure what else to do. Things had been going well for about a week or two we capped it first at an hour and then 45 minutes but now he is starting to fight the pm nap again. I think the problem is, is that he needs almost a full A time before his next nap even if its 45 minutes but then there isn't enough time in the day to get a decent pm nap. Even when he does fall asleep he will only sleep for like 45mins maybe an hour. I just am not sure what to do because he is a little to young to go to one nap. His A time is about 4 hours and he usually sleeps through the night. Here is what our routine kind of looks like
7am wake-up
11 am nap
11:45 wake up
2:45/3:00 nap #2 but fights it and sometimes won't fall asleep until 3:30/4:00
4/4:15 wake-up
8pm bed
I am going to try and cut it down to 30 minutes but I am afraid than his afternoon nap will only be 45 minutes and that means total nap time is a little over an hour I just think that isn't enough.
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Try capping the am nap at 20 mins and offering the pm about 2 hrs later hung. Could that work?
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I just feel so bad doing that he is sooo tired for the first nap but he just won't sleep for second or if he does its only like 45 minutes so now he is getting less sleep
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Would the opposite work then, push the first A to 4-4.5 hrs then let sleep as long as he likes. Then do a late pm CN and short A to BT?
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Hi Patsy,
ZM is giving great advice, I just wanted to say that my LO satrted childcare 4 weeks agao and the only thing i was concerned about was her sleep.
I have to say that E has slept everyday at the childminders, albeit maybe not at the exact times as if she was with me and we have done BT any time from 6pm-7.30pm depending on her sleep that day but all in all it has been fine and she loves the activities.
On the flip side my friends little girl had always napped well in the day but never woke up past 5.30am, she started nursery and for the first month did not sleep at all or only did 10mins. They were doing BT without a bath at 6pm most nights but they started having to wake her at 8am so there was a silver lining.
I suppose what I am trying to say is your LO will adapt and it will be fine. Maybe not everyday but you will get through it.
Ultimately not many of us have the choice to be stay at home mums so we actually just have to accept that our LO's will be in childcare and think of the positives around the stimulation and activities they get to do
xx
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Hi everyone
Our lo is coming up to 10 months next week...this is our easy..
6am WU bottle
7 breakfast
9.45 -11.45 nap
12.00 bottle
13.00 lunch
15.45-16.30 nap
16.45 dinner
19.00 bottle
19.20-19.30 bed (usually straight to sleep)
This is going perfectly at the moment, except I have to wake him after both naps (he wakes in a good mood usually). I just don't know what comes next...gonna have to extend his A to 4 hrs very soon. But how's the day gonna work out? Do I cut his morning nap shorter? He has to wake at 6am to get to nursery. Any advice ..please xxx
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So I feel I am really at a loss. I feel like I have tried it all. I have tried a short am nap (30 mins) which does make it easier for him to fall asleep but since its not a full A he only naps for 45mins- an hour. I have tried letting him sleep longer in the morning but now he will only nap for an hour and then it takes about a 4 hr A for him to fall asleep so he has a very late catnap but then he wakes at night and wakes early in the morning. The past week he has only had a total of about 1.5 hrs of napping during the day and about 10.5 hours at night and it't not enough but I really don't know what else to do. Any advice would be much appreciated
This was his schedule for the past two days
Tuesday
6:45 woke-up
11:00-12:00 nap
4:15-4:40 nap in car wouldn't fall asleep
8:00 bed
Wednesday
6:20 woke up
10:30-11:30 nap
4:00 nap in the car because he wouldn't sleep woke him up at 4:30
8:00 bed
Up from 11:30p-12:30a
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Hi Dkelley how old is your little one?
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Mcd if it's going well I would leave it as long as possible but start to gently push the first A time given that is his best nap. And cap the pm nap to become a CN. Or if e pm is routinely refused you can try to cap the am at z40 mins or so and see what you get for a pm nap 3 hrs or so later? What do you think?
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Thanks zacsM.... Okay I will keep as it is till he starts to show his normal signs to increase A (usually taking extra 10 mins to go to sleep ) I just worry, he loves his sleep so much. Gonna try and keep morning nap the longest and just push it later and later, what's the shortest you can cut the CN? Xx
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I'd start capping at 40 mins. But it may not be Enough as some LOs can do a full A on a sleep cycle so then try 30 then down to 20 - remember to decrease the A after the CN as you cap it less and less ;) T can do 2-2.5 hrs on a 20 min CN and 2.5-3 on a 30 min one.
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He is 10 months old
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Dkelly have you tried capping the am nap at 30 mins then offering a pm 3 hrs later?
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@zacsmomme yea I have he will go to sleep a little easier but will only nap for 45mins-1 hour at the most so he is getting max 1.5 hrs for the day
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Mmmmmm tough one ;) have you posted on the naps board Hun?
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Hi everyone
I've posted in here before my LO started the transition at about 10 months, she is now 13 months and things are still all over the place. She has one nap most days but I really have to push her and other days she will have 2. She goes to daycare 2 days a week and she'll have 2 naps there ranging from 1/2-1.15hr and when at home with me 1 nap 2-3hrs.
The problem iam having is that one day she'll wake up at 5.50am other days at 6.30-6.45am. It's really hard to get her into a one nap when WU is all over the place.
I also think she is starting to fight her sleep as one time she fell asleep at 10am and slept 1hr then would go back down to sleep again even with ap. then yesturday at daycare she only slept from 10-10.45am for the whole day. (I asked if they tried again later in the day and they said she seemed fine do they didn't try) she crashed in the car at 4.15-5pm, then BT at 7.30pm and up this morning at 5.50am.
What to do????
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What is her first A ills? Prob needs a bump?
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It doesn't seem to matter what A time I do. Normally it's 5.1/2hrs A, which I have to push her through and she will sleep 2-3hrs. However yesturday she woke at 5.50am and was cranky all morning so I put her down at 9.20am and she slept till 10.45am then another nap at 3-4pm with BT at 7.30pm. She woke up at 5am this morning, I left her for about 50mins then got her and brought her into our bed, she fights the sleep so it took 1/2hr of patting in my arms and she fell back asleep at 6.30am and woke at 7.10am.
It's so hard to figure it out. Her WU ranges from 5-7am??????
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Hi mummy my beautiful baby was in a great routine for like 2 mth on one long and one short pm nap. Suddenly she is refusing her pm nap. Her am nap has always been 1hr 20m n om nap 30-40min. STTN. But we also have been moving house this few days. Her routine was
Wu 0610-0630
Nap 1 1030-1150
Nap 2 1530-1600
BT 1930
The day we moved house
Wu 0615/0630
Nap 1 1030-1145
Nap 2 1530 refused happily lying in bed sucking her sleeves for 50 min until I go in a apop her to sleep them sleep 20 min I woke her up.
Bt 1915
Same with day 2 n 3 ??????
Has STTN always.
Why is this happening? Is it because we moved house???? Pls help!!
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Miriclelim how old is your LO?
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Hi mummy zacmumme she is 10.5 mth
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Can't quite believe I'm joining this thread with Jack only 8 months old today but we've been capping the morning nap for a while and I think J is heading towards another A increase so we're really not far from 2-1 now. He's currently waking at 5.45 every morning which I'm ok with but if it gets any earlier I'm trying the odd 1 nap day for sure! The main trouble seems to be that he likes a very long first A time. We're currently APing at around 4hrs 15 though he will go down at home at 4 hrs (and do an UT nap if I leave him, though most days we cap at 30 minutes.
Our day already looks like this:
WU: 5.45
A: 4-4 hrs 15
S: 10 ish for 30 minutes (capped)
A: 3hrs 20-30 depending on how tired he seems.
S: 2 / 2 hrs 15 ish for 1.5 hours. He's recently started waking for this himself
A: 3 hrs 15
BT: 7 - 7.15.
Has anyone here been through this at such a young age? Do I need to worry about OT more cos he's younger? He seems quite resilient to it so far (UT has caused us far more problems) but he's sooo young to be near dropping to one nap.... We're not there yet but I can see it on the horizon!
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Ok so Iam unsure if everything at the moment. Yesturday she woke at 7.30am yay!!!! That was after a 7.30pm BT. We did one nap at 12.30pm and she slept for 2.5-2.45hrs I woke her at 3pm then BT at 7.39pm. This morning she woke at 6am?????
The WU are so random what could cause this????
As now it will be 5.5hr A time for nap at 12pm. Yesturday she was such a happy toddler but I can imagine today after only 10.5hrs overnight that she will probably be grumpy.
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Can someone help me transition my daughter from 2 to 1 nap?
WU: 8:15 am
E: 8:30 am (bottle), 9 am (solids)
A: 9:30 am to 11:30 am
S: 11:30 am to 1 pm
WU: 1 pm
E: 1:30 and 2 (bottle/solids)
A: 2:30 to 4:30
S: 4:30 pm to 5:10 pm
WU: 5:10 pm
E: 5:30 and 6 pm
E: 10 pm (another bottle)
BT: 10:30 pm
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Hi girls, sorry for not replying to anyone for the last week or so, lets just say things are a bit hetic around here.
Zacsmumme, thank you again for all your advise and help. We've had some success with the napping over the last week. Ive been letting her sleep as long as she wants in the morning and capping the pm nap at 30 min with BT 2.5 hrs later. We're still having ENW's and a lot of crying at the pm nap unless she falls asleep in the car for it but to get pm nap in cot is a battle. Ive noticed all last week however that she has started her am nap earlier and earlier and has gone from 10.45/11.00am right back to 10.00am this morning and is only waking now, 3 hrs later!! However, two days ago she refused to nap and only had a 20 min CN in am & 40 min CN in pm and a horrible OT night to follow :'( Should I let her sleep this long in the am? We still try to get a 30 min CN in pm but still end up with ENW's. I just cant seem to get it to balance out. Any suggestions?
Clairehv, thanks also for your reassurance about napping in the creche. Iam starting her next week for an hr each day and building it up and the girls there are going to work on getting her to nap also so fingers crossed it works out. She'll have 2 weeks of settling in before I have to go back to work so hopefully thats enough time for her. If she refuses to nap in creche I really dont know what Iam going to do as things are bad enough as they are :(
All advise really appreciated girls and I'll keep ye posted xx
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Hi Everyone. I've been trying to go back and read this thread, but it's so long! I was trying to find specific info on the 2-1 transition for kids with EMW. We've been dealing with EMW for MONTHS. My LO will be 1 year in a week. I've found that if I do less than 3h45m A time, he'll wake up the next morning after only 9.5 hrs of ONS. Sometimes he'll go back to sleep for another 30-40m. But if I do 3h50-4h A time, he does closer to a 10-10.5 ONS, but won't go back to sleep. His wake up times are all over the map right now so I can't even give you a good example of what a "typical" day looks like. Just some advance info - he is a super light sleeper and super sensitive to OT. For example, even a 2 min WT push or asleep a couple min before ideal WT will cause midnap wakeups. Before DST, we had this kind of day --
Wake up 6:15
E
A total A time is 3h50m - 4h
S - 10:00 - 11:20 am nap - usually wakes midnap and need to be put back down again (has done this since he was a newborn)
E
A total A time is 3h35m - 3h40m
S - 3:00 - 4:20 - again midnap wake up and needs to be put back down
E
A total A time is 3h
S - 7:20
He'll do 10-10.5 hrs ONS but he'll wake up somewhere arund 9ish and mess around and go back to sleep. Sometimes we get 10h50m ONS but that would be his BEST EVER.
So I think the only way for us to keep the EMW at bay so that he's getting at least 10/10.75 hrs of ONS is to keep pushing his first nap later. How do you suggest handling his 2nd nap? Do an undertired 2nd nap (which usually is exactly 27 minutes long) after 3h30m ish min. and shoot for an earlier bedtime (shorten last A time from 3 h to 2.5 hrs?)
Woudl love to know how you handle a baby with EMW's! By the way, I tried limiting the first nap to an hour after 4h 1st A time and he'd be an OT mess and it was really hard to pinpoint when to put him down for the 2nd nap. His first nap is always the most natural and easiest for him to fall and stay asleep.
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Hi ladies - I know a lot of you are coming looking for advice on the 2-1 transition. This thread is really a support thread for you to support each other when in the process. Compare notes and all that ;)
For advice on the next step or your LOs sleep try the naps board if your LO is under 1, or toddler sleep if over 1. Here's some great links to help you figure them out too :-*
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)
10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first! (2-1 switch)
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Hi - think we might be on this transition so would love to chat to others in the same boat!
For several weeks now my DD's morning nap has been getting longer and her PM nap shorter. I have always struggled to get her into her cot in the afternoon so I've had to APOP it, usually at the boob or in the buggy, sometimes the car. For ages I felt really bad about this because a lot of my friends seemed to be able to get their babies down twice a day so easily but I've come to accept it now and it's pointless trying to get her in her cot for her PM nap now. It has lately gone from an hour to 40 mins to 30 mins (and, today, 20 mins).
She is definitely a much better napper in the morning so I am trying to extend her morning A time rather than cap this nap. It started off rather short for her age and I expect she could go longer than I am currently doing; I am just experimenting at the moment.
She usually wakes up just after 6 and I used to put her down after 2 hours but now it's 3 hours - and today she spilt water over herself at breakfast, so needed an outfit change, which meant that I put her down later than I ever have done, after just over 3 hours...and she slept 2 hours, her longest ever nap. So I am going to try and work towards extending this first A time and see what happens. This was our routine today:
6.10am: wake up
6.45am: milk feed
8.15am: breakfast
9.25am - 11.25am: sleep
12.30pm: lunch
3:30pm-3:50pm: sleep (in the car; did seem rather short, not sure what happened there)
5pm: tea
6:30pm: milk feed
7.15pm: bed
Would love to chat to others doing similar things!
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My dd has not been having pm nap unless I apop it but it starts to interfere with bedtime so I tired one nap day n surprisingly it went super well.
She slept for 2 hr from 1105-1305 then bedtime I put her down at 1800 wont sleep till 1820 then wake up next day at 0600 so 11.5 hr of night. Haven't had that for ages.
But today only 1.5 hr nap.
Didn't expect dd to go on one nap so soon she is only 11 mth today. :o
What do you do with social life now? Can't go out for lunch or dinner......
I planned lots of events around lunch time *sign* now I am stuck at home till she wakes up n has her lunch before I can go out.
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ZM can I just say thanks for the links I found them really helpful and recommend that people read them.
Thanks again
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ZM,
Can I just say thanks for the links.
I have been trying to keep up with thread on this post, and it was appearing to me that there were a lot of young babies seemingly going for the 2-1 transition so I was worrying we .
E is 15 months and is certainly mainly on a 2 nap day with us capping the am nap and having read through the links that you posted this seems reasonable.
We'll work towards 1 nap if she shows signs of not needing it or if her afternoon nap becomes less than 1.5 hours.
Thanks again
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Hello ladies,
I am in desperate need of advice here!
DD turned 11 months yesterday. The last month has been a disaster. I just could not put her down for the second nap. Here how is used to be (depending on her wake time):
6.15 wake up
9.45-10.25 nap 1
14.25-15.45 nap 2
19.00 bed
50% of the time she'd sleep 1 hr 20 min in the morning and 40-45 minutes in the afternoon, or 45 minutes both naps. But in general this is what we had.
Then, when DD turned 10 months old, I started having hard times putting her down for the second nap. I blamed in laws that came to visit, then my parents who came for Christmas, until now, when there is no one else left to blame ;D
I mast say she sleeps on the boob during her naps and in the crib for the first half of the night. (Then i take her to my bed.)
She is not an independent sleeper and those 33 days when I tried to follow pupd were the worst days of my motherhood. Don't even want to think about doing it again. Sigh.
Anyways, these few days she wakes up after 11 hours of night sleep (11.5 hours on rare occasions), goes for the fist nap after 3.5-4 hours, sleeps for 45 minutes only and... And that's it.
So after 11.30 am I can't put her for a nap anymore. She is extremely tired, rubs her eyes, ears, yawns, gets cranky, etc. Yet until 19.00-19.30 she is up :(
i take her to bed with me, lay with her, feed her, hug her, she almost falls asleep and then - bam! Legs and arms start moving, oh here's a cute button on mom's shirt she needs to touch, wait - there is mom's hair, and her own leg, and her own toes to play with, and something else, and else, and else! >:(
Yesterday I spent 2 hours trying, today "only" one, and I am just clueless...
She is sooo tired, i can tell, yet she just can't seem to be able to relax!!
Do you guys think she is switching to one nap or something else is going on here?
I must add I read FAQ here and for two days I tried tweaking her nap time and only put her down for one nap (6 hours after she wakes up in the morning), but I could tell it was just way too difficult for her. Plus, she only sleeps for 35-45 minutes sometimes, and has to last until evening.
Please help. I was thinking about getting her some calming drops to help her calm down. Cannot think of anything else to do :(
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Hi AmberOctober,
Have you tried putting your bub down much earlier than 3.5 hours after waking up in the morning? I find that my baby gets more wired the longer I keep him up in the morning and takes very poor naps. My 18 month old has just started staying up 3 hours after waking in the morning. From 9 months until now he has had only 2-2.5 hours of activity after morning wake up. His day went like this:
WU: 7am
NAP 1: 9:15-10:45/11:15
Lunch/Activity time
NAP 2: 2:15-3:30-4pm
BT: 7pm
He was a horrible sleeper from day 1. It took 6 months of me doing various things to get him into any sort of normal napping schedule that lasted more than 30-40 minutes. My understanding is that they only sleep for that length of time when they are already tired out being put to sleep. Some children it seems have to be monitored extremely closely for any signs of tired. As soon as I see an eye rub, a yawn, or any fussing we read a story or two and its diaper change and a song and naptime.
The book they reference in the FAQ - Healthy Sleep habits Happy Child by Weisbluth is EXCELLENT. I've read it so many times. Baby whisperer books also helpful. You must take from these books and advice what works for your child. Someone once wrote that ideally your childs activity time should be 2 hours/3 hours/4 hours. So 2 after waking, next is 3 hours after first nap, and then 4 hours activity before bed. My child hasn't been able to handle long periods of wakefulness. I would suggest just trying to put your baby down much earlier. I would try 8:30am for the first nap.
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Hi All, would love to get advise from other mamas here.. My LO is 11 months and think she is ready for the 2 to 1 transition.
I know every baba is different but wondering which method I should use S AM/ L PM or L AM/ S PM.
She is up at 6.30
Nap one at 9.30 to 10.30
Map two at 2 - 3
Bed at 7.30
Both naps are roughly one hour each and seems tired for both but resists going down for them? X
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Hi we was doing long am short pm as DD would always go down easier for that first nap. I have now swapped it around mainly to fit in with the childminders routine and seems to be working better with BT 4 hours after the 2nd nap and she is now sttn most nights.
Like you say though every lo is different. You could try pushing that 1st A time out and doing long Am first to see how she does and then CN in the pm? Was a lot of trial and error for us at the beginning!!!
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Hi! Is anyone wanting to just chat through progress with 2-1 transition? DS is 10.5 months and A times are around 4 hrs with EMW (around 5.30am :() I've been trying short am, long pm nap as that's been his natural pattern for a while but he's pushing his A times longer and longer and BT later with it so wondering about trying to push 1st nap later and try long am, short pm. Only trouble is all our activities and playgroups are in the morning so we would miss out on lots of stuff. Has anyone else switched approach?
ATM our day looks something like this:
Wu 5.30
E 6 milk
7.30 breakfast
A 4 hrs
S 9.30-10 (capped)
E 10 milk
12.30 lunch
A 3.30-4hrs
S 1.30/2 for 1hr20/30
E 3/3.30 snack
5 dinner
6.45/7 milk
A 4hrs
S 7-7.30
He had a disrupted night (teething I think) and woke closer to 6.30 today so might try for a long am nap instead and see what happens.
He's starting nursery in a month's time when I go back to work and really want to have worked out a good routine for him by then.
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Hi scottishmummy. We switched to long am/ short pm when we got to that point too. I focused on finding the right A time for a good nap and then tidied up with a cat nap later in the day if need be. If he had a good late nap we had a one nap day, if not we did 2 naps. I was surprised how far I had to push J to get a decent nap, but that might just be him cos he's always preferred a long first A. Anyway, it took quite a bit of trial and error but made the final transition easier I think cos I already knew what a good A time for him was.
For a while we did a long nap around 11ish and cat nap at 4 / 4.30. This got shorter and later til we were doing 15 minutes at 5ish, and a 14 hr day. Then J decided he needed 5.5hrs A to do a decent nap so we properly went to one nap.
Hope that helps.
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Hi Scottishmummy
DD is the same age as your DS. We don't have such an early start as you (she's waking at 6ish) but our day looks pretty much identical to yours.
I was up until recently doing long am short pm but switched to keep in line with her routine at the childminders plus like you say we were missing out on so many groups it had to be boring for her!
LL&J does make a good point though with doing it the other way round that you know what A time gives you a good nap.
Today she didn't seem tired after 3hr 30 mins to have nap and fought it for 15 mins and slept for 1hr20. Very rarely has she ever slept past 1hr45 though (even with 4hr + A) so not sure if she needs even longer A to get that 2hr nap or she just isn't capable of it (yet?)
LL&J did you find it took your lo time to get those longer naps or did they come straight away? I think she could handle 1 nap days if that nap was longer but can't seem to get it when we've tried on the odd day.
I think for now I might start shortening the am to 15/20 mins and see if she goes down easier and slightly earlier for 2nd nap and if it lengthens at all?!
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It did take a while to get longer naps, but for us that was partly cos I was trying A times which were too low. I think I tried a set nap at 11.15 for a week and found that the days he woke earlier and had longer til the nap were the days he slept longer. So I learnt a lot through that. Once I found the right A time he napped well on it fairly consistently, but we might have just gotten lucky there! He's lsn so I wouldn't necessarily start at this point, but I was getting very frustrated trying A times from 3hrs 45 - 4hrs 45 and getting rubbish naps, or inconsistent naps and it turned out he needed 5hrs. I only mention it cos it's worth trying different things out, as long as your lo doesn't seem too tired.
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Hi both & thanks for your replies and insights.
It is confusing, isn't it- trying to get the right A times and good naps but avoid OT & UT. I get scared of pushing A times too much as we had real problems with over tiredness when DS was younger and he's quite "spirited" about sleep- so if we miss the magic time, we're done for! I also find he tends to extend his Atimes himself without too much help from me so I just try to follow his lead (although if 5.30 wu continues I will be stretching that morning more)
He woke later today (6.15) but was ready to sleep at 9.45 (bad night giving shorter A time, I think). I left him and he slept 1hr15 then slept again just before 3 (just under 4hrs A time) for 35mins. He was asleep at 7-15 tonight- waiting to see if what kind of night & WU we get with that.
LL&J I think we were on 0-3 board around the same time? Nice to hear from you & a 2-1 success story. Sounds like I needto be prepared for a long, gradual trial & error process.
Lolsyb - our longest nap is rarely over 1hr30, DS doesn't seem to need more than 2hrs day sleep in total. I was thinking of trying a super short first nap too, if this long am, short pm doesn't work out. I'm not sure what happens after capping to 15mins though- just get rid and go to long first nap and CN if needed afterwards?
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I honestly never had an idea just how much time I would be planning sleep! So technical!!
Yes K only needs 2hrs too. Much more and we get NW's. I think that after capping to 15mins you do then go for long am and hope for the best!
K too used to be very sensitive to OT, she has def got a lot better the past few months and so I too get nervous stretching A times.
You said he's starting nursery soon. What do they do nap wise there for his age?
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Yes, we were, scottishmummy! Good to see you around still. You should come and join us in the 10-12 month birth club :) Lots of 2-1 mischief there!
It did take a lot of trial and error to get through the 2-1 for us. I never really found a 2 nap routine which worked in the last couple of months - we never got past the EWs. He was definitely ready for one nap when we switched and if he'd been a bit older I'd have done it sooner but I was worried about OT with him being so young. We got there in the end though, even though it felt never ending at the time!
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We had our first 1 nap day today! Only because DS has had a couple of bad nights (teething I think) woke at 5.30 but was still v tired after his 6am milk and went back to sleep until 8. He lasted until 11-45 then slept an incredible 2hrs20mins! I gave him a rest but not sleep in buggy at 4.30 then put him to bed at 6.30. Pretty sure that will give us a 5.30 start tomorrow (& back to 2 naps) but that's ok if we get a good night and avoid OT.
LL&J- has switching to 1 nap improved the EW? How long did your early mornings go on for? I'll pop in to 10-12 sometime. I gave up on EASY for a while as it just didn't work for DS as developmentally we didn't get any regular long naps until 6mo. It works well for us now though & this site has been so helpful for his other nap transitions though that I'm back for the support, advice & chat.
Lolsyb - I don't know what routine nursery does, they said they would follow whatever he does at home. Makes me feel very pressured to work something out! We had a good reliable routine until a few weeks ago and now it's pretty variable because of his rapidly stretching A times and variable nap lengths & sometimes different wake up times. I feel like I don't know what I'm doing again, so I'm feeling a bit stressed. How did the 15min first nap go? Thinking of trying that if DS wakes early tomorrow.
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We have a poorly little girl here today. Another cold/virus I think.
She woke up every hour or so last night and would mostly call out then go straight back to sleep then woke properly at 4am and took 1/2 hr or so to resettle. Today she's been very grizzly and upset if you leave her and naps have gone a bit off today so didn't try.
Put to bed at 6 so will see what sort of a night we get and will prob wait until she's more herself before playing around with her routine.
Hope you have a good night and yay for the 1 nap day!! Let me know how tomorrow goes!!
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Hope she gets well soon, Lolsyb, colds throw everything off.
DS slept until 6 yesterday and needed 3:30 A times but managed 4hrs at end of day. Think he was still catching up on sleep from teething NWs though as today he woke at 5.30 again and wasn't ready for 2nd nap until 2pm again (4hrs Atime) but only slept an hour. I will try a 15min 1st nap tomorrow. I really have to push him for a 9.30am 1st nap though, he really wants first nap after 3:30 A time but I found that if I he goes to sleep at 9am he ends up starting day at 5!! Hope shortening it to 15mins doesn't give us a horrible OT mess.
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Thanks, she seems better today but we've had 2 horrific nights so hoping tonight might be better :-\ I think she may have a top tooth coming through too.
A 4hr A time this morning (decided to do long am/short pm today as being looked after by her nan and always goes down easier in the am) only got us just over an hours nap and woke up happy so think I need to push that 1st A out again. Will leave until Friday until she's at home with me though in case it backfires and wont settle for nanny!
She can definitely handle a longer A in the morning than before bed. She's been tired after only 3.30 after pm nap but could be due to illness?(although not sure if thats added to the long NW's?!) She's been refusing to self settle at BT and have had to AP them the past couple of nights and the same in the motn. Does your lo refuse to settle himself when he's unwell/teething?
Does he give reliable tired cues that you could follow if you do only give him 15 mins and then can't last his usual A time after?
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LL&J- has switching to 1 nap improved the EW? How long did your early mornings go on for?
It's hard to say cos I think that 10.5 - 10.75hrs is actually a normal night for jack, but it took me a while to accept that, so I was treating some early starts as EWs, and doing a low of early nights on one nap days. For a long long time we were starting the day at 5.30am. But his nights shortened to 10hrs max on 2 nap days at least 6-8 weeks before we finally went to one nap. But I did drag it out cos he was so young to transition. We also moved bedtime later towards the end to get WU past 5.30. Right at the end he was only doing 9-9.5hrs at night on 2 nap days at which point I decided enough was enough and went to one set nap.
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Hi ladies, we're also working on the 2-1 transition and are doing the short am/long pm nap but I wonder whether she would do better on long am/short pm option, which I am trying today :P. Does anyone have school runs to work around? I would be interested in seeing the schedule :)
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We didn't have to consider school runs, layla, but I found that with a short pm nap it was generally falling around 4/4.30, which would have fitted in fine. The difficulty then becomes how to AP with an older sibling around.... Some days we just couldn't. But then I made the extra effort to the next day.
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No we don't have school runs either but the short nap here is usually around 3.30ish so would you be back from school then? or could your lo fall asleep on the way back from school? I find Kitty will always fall asleep earlier if being pushed in her buggy or in the car than if we were at home and I prefer to do it on the move as she always wakes herself up at the 30 min mark if in car seat etc where as in her cot I would have to wake her which I HATE doing!!!!!
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Haha, I also hate waking mine up and this morning decided to do the long am/short pm because I've been waking J up since she was 8mo and I just want to see what will happen if I stop doing it ... it will probably all backfire!!! Today was good though, long am from 9ish-11ish and pm nap from 2.30-3. I guess that would work ok for us as I leave the house at 3 to get the girls from school. I don't mind APg the catnap but would prefer not to.
She's been fighting going to bed (could be teething or could be from long pm nap), which is another reason why I tried the long am/short pm today and I let her sleep from 9.15-11am in the morning and 2.30-3 in the afternoon and she went to sleep without a fight at 6.30pm.
I am freaking out though... I am reading old 2-1 posts/threads and not looking forward to it.
I remember how much I was freaking out about J giving up the catnap at 5 months and now i am seriously freaking out over this transition!!!
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Oh brilliant it all worked out well!!!! Hope it continues :)
I too am dreading it! The 3-2 went fairly smoothly for us but I think this one may be a bit more hellish!
We are a bit all over the place at the moment anyway due to teething and illness so struggling to get back to the good routine we had going on a couple of weeks ago! Just when she started sttn as well!!
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ok so 4.15 A time gave us a 2hr nap!!!!! Whether thats just catching up on lost sleep from the bad nights i'm not sure? I didnt cap as I wanted to see how long she could sleep for on the longer A time.
It was 1pm when she woke which now makes the cn a bit difficult this afternoon. Wont be until at least 4pm, more like 4.30... what would you all do, give 15/20 mins maybe if she does fall asleep and then what time for bed?
I'm at work so won't be picking her up until 5.15ish so earliest I could get her to bed would be 6.15 which would be too long A before bed.
So far her day looks like this
WU 6.45
Nap 11-1
Nap 2 ?
BT?
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How did the rest of your day go Lolsyb? Hope it continued as well as it started, 2hr nap is great, will you do same routine tomorrow?
I'm dreading/stressing about this transition too. 2-3 was OK despite some screamy OT bedtimes but it seemed simpler just to drop/decrease last nap and increase last A time. I'm having more trouble getting my head around him dropping a morning nap anytime soon as he just doesn't wake late enough (apart from Monday which was catching up) or have the A times he needs to go until lunchtime .
Mini first nap (15mins) had mixed results...DS was fine with being woken and seemed ok all morning, went down for 2nd nap earlier (after about 3:30 A time) but then woke after 1:10 screaming, still tired and wouldn't go back to sleep then sent all afternoon being grumpy. I tried for EBT but he wouldn't settle until normal bedtime. I think he was maybe a bit OT from the shorter first nap but I'm going to stick with it fora couple of days and see if he gets used to it,
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Her nan managed to AP a nap at 4.10 but I didn't have a clue how long to give her so went for 20 mins and woke at 4.30.
I'm not sure whether it's the teething or the fact she's been under the weather but this wk she seems to be getting tired much earlier than her usual A time and so I'm never sure when her BT is? Put her down as soon as she starts rubbing her eyes but not sure if she's OT by then?
Tonight she fell asleep at 6.30 so only managed an A time of 2hr after the 20 mins. Is that about right?? If the 20 min had been in the am she could have continued for 3-3.30 hours.
Not sure what sort of night we'll have. Last night we had an hours NW which was slightly better than before but I'm not sure if it's the teething that's causing it or routine?
So frustrating that within a couple of wks of sttn it's all gone wrong again!
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Lolsyb - I was never very good at judging bedtime either :-\ I just try not to deviate too much from the norm so we don't get too far off track.
Layla - the 2-1 totally stressed me out cos J was so young. It's better now cos I can see he's generally doing well on one nap, but every time he has a disturbed nap or night I immediately worry I've got it wrong. I think that'll carry on for a while though cos he just doesn't fit normal A times and sleep needs so I'm always questioning if I've got things right!
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Scottishmummy - I'm not sure if I should continue or go back to the old routine of short am/long pm? We seemed to have better nights when we got that routine working... Although this routine might be ok and it's the teething causing the NW?!?! I can see the gum has split at the top now so can't be too long before it cuts through.
The 2hr nap was great but I'm still then unsure what time is ok for the CN and then BT and her A times still aren't quite long enough to go to 1 nap.
As of next wk she's back with the childminder so will be doing short am/long pm there so perhaps I should just go back to that and just try the opposite every now and again to see what sort of A time she can handle iykwim and when it's more like 4.5hr then switch to long am as can prob drop the CN then.
All so confusing!!! Wish sometimes I was one of these mums who had no clue about BW, A times etc and just went with the flow. Sure I think about sleep too much!!!
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lolsyb1982 - we once had a catnap as late as 4pm (it was one of those days I let her sleep long in the morning because I needed to get out in the afternoon and thought she would sleep in the pram, which she didn't and we had to AP the catnap when we got home) and she woke on her own 20mins later (she was in my arms with my breast in her mouth, which I was too scared to detach lol) and I put her down at night at 6.30pm and she went to sleep as soon as I put her down and slept well that night. Its interesting you mentioned if the cn was in the morning, she would have done more A then... I remember dd1 and 2 were much more sensitive to the A before bedtime than the other ones so maybe that's what it is.
Scottishmummy - I know with dd1 and 2, when we were going through the transition, I never thought they would give up their morning nap because they were always ready for it around 9am BUT there does come a time when they naturally start skipping that nap (sort of the same as when they start skipping the catnap when they go through the 3-2). So with us, I would still offer quiet time and if they weren't asleep by say 10am, I would pick them up and do 1/2 lunch/early snack and back to bed for 1 nap day around 11ish am. Once they started skipping the morning nap more and more, we kinda went with 1 nap (around 11am) and then had to do a catch up 2 nap day every 3-4 days or so and then maybe every 5-6 days and then it was one nap all the way... but its the guessing along the way which I don't like the most :P.
LL&J - I know what you mean about worrying whether you made the transition too early or whether its other things. It's just such a rotten time with most of them teething (mine has cut 2 top teeth yesterday morning and is working on others) and transitioning to 1 nap... you always seem to 2nd guess the routine when EW and NW start... but it could be other things messing them up too!
I have another month before going back to work (was able to extend mat leave ;D) and I feel the pressure of getting her to 1 nap before I go back. I can't see mum waking her up...she's so against waking a sleepy baby and so I just want to make things nice and simple for her so that she only has to worry about 1 nap ::)
I am going to give long am/short pm a go for a week and then evaluate whether its working or not. This morning I woke to her crying at 6.06am, which makes me think I got the last A before bedtime wrong (3.5hrs after 45min catnap) OR she woke up much earlier and just got sick of waiting for me to get her. I kept her awake until 9.30am (going to try and push 15min increments every week until we're at 11am) and will wake her at 1.5hrs. Jasmine has a concert today at school around 2pm and it will be interesting to see if she takes her catnap in the pram ::)
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Right.... my plan of long am/short pm isn't going to work if she doesn't want to sleep long in the morning ;) She woke on her own at 1hr so I put her down less than 3hrs A time (she was really tired and cranky) and thought she would only have a short nap but she ended up sleeping for 2hrs. She woke at 3.15pm and was giving some strong tired signs by 6pm so I put her down at 6.30pm and she went to sleep right away. Its weird how her A's seem to be reducing... she is teething at the moment so maybe that's why ???
Anyway, I am going to forget the long am/short pm option... even though I don't mind APg the catnap, it would be easier for me not to (with homework and activities to fit in after school) and so I'll limit her morning nap to 30mins from next week and let her sleep up to 2hrs in the pm and hopefully she won't fight me at bedtime. I don't mind her day getting longer... I guess that is to be expected during these transitions :-\
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I love this thread- makes me feel better that it's not just me obsessing about nap times-it's nice to be able to talk about it- I feel like I bore everyone IRL with it!
Teething and illness throws sleep off here too, usually more at night but then we get shorter A times and DS needs longer naps as a result in the day. I do think I prefer short am/long pm too though as DS seems to sleep better at night if he naps early afternoon then has a longer A time before bed.
Had to put him down at 9am today as he was way too tired to last until 9.30. Gave him 30 mins in the hope of a 1.30-3pm afternoon nap and normal bedtime to try to avoid even earlier waking tomorrow....we'll see if that works ...
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fingers crossed for you...and you're definitely not the only one obsessed with sleep ;)
We have a bday party to attend tmrw so J won't be able to have a long afternoon nap but oh well...life goes on and I am sure we'll survive!
I am off to bed ;D
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So last night went really well and only had a 5 min wake up around 9pm :). She slept until 5.30 so a good 11 hr night although an early start. Went for 4hr15 again before nap but only had an hour and half today so maybe yesterday's 2hrs was a fluke! We then went out and she wouldn't sleep in her buggy so by time I put her down at 2.50 she was OT and has slept from 3.20 for 30mins (was going to let her have 45 as tired but woke herself)
Will go for 6.30ish BT and hope for another good night. Her tooth has cut through the gum today so maybe explains the better night..
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Layla - our A times have reduced too so can only assume it's teething that does it. Think K would have gone to bed at 5.30 if I let her but trying to hang her out until closer to 6.30 as at best she will only sleep 11.5 hours so don't fancy a 5am wake up tomorrow!
I'm definitely going back to short am/long pm next wk as she never seems rested enough with the CN in the afternoon.
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lolsyb - same here, I feel she's better rested the other way around too. I can't remember where but I read a while ago that the afternoon nap is better for them as they get older as it has more non rem/deep sleep as opposed to the am nap, which is mostly rem/light sleep and better for younger babies... maybe that has something to do with it ??? Who knows? The other option works really well for others!
Anyway, having said all that, I did put dd down for her morning nap and crossed all my fingers and toes that she sleeps long this morning as we have to go out today and I want her to be able to have at least one good nap and from tomorrow onwards, I'll go back to the other routine ;)
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Layla - oh really that's interesting to know. We had a 5am wake up this morning :-\ which only meant just over 10hr night. OT perhaps?
Back to old routine today although not sure how to play it with such an early start? What do you do if you get an early WU?
Hope you get that good sleep this morning!
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Lolsyb - if we get a very early start I try to keep DS going as long as possible even if it's with holding him and carrying him around the house to get as close to our normal first nap time as possible. Hope your whole day isn't thrown out.
Layla, being flexible with nap here too as we're meeting friends with babies on a different schedule early afternoon and I don't want to have to leave with a grumpy baby after an hour. Like you, I'm hoping he'll comply and take a long am nap and not just 40mins (if he does that he won't sleep more than 40mins at 2nd nap and we get OT by bedtime) I will be back to short am/long pm tomorrow - that's interesting about pm nap being more refreshing- definitely sounds right for DS.
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If it were me, I would try and hold her off until 9am and do a 45min nap. Is she prone to EWs or has she started waking early when you switched to long am/short pm. I ask because the morning nap is a bit like continuation of night sleep and if its too long or too close to wake up time then that reinforces early wake ups for some.
Well this afternoon was interesting... I thought she would have a CN in the car on the way to the party and of course she didn't! As soon as we got out of the car (1.5hr drive), I put her in the pram and started walking around hoping she would sleep and of course she didn't! Tried again a few more times to push her around and by 4pm still nothing and we were heading home then and I thought she would surely sleep in the car on the way home (again 1.5hr drive) and nothing :o!!! As soon as we got home, I gave her a very quick wash down and tried my best to BF her without her falling asleep (which of course she did) and then into bed for the night at 5.20pm. It's 8pm now and thankfully no OT call outs, which I remember oh so well when we had those kinda days with dd1 and 2. I do think dd3 can handle OT much better than the others but still, not something I would like to do too often. She ended up being awake for 7hrs before bedtime. She was absolutely feral (and rightly so!) but I did give her plenty of chances to get to sleep... she just didn't take them :P.
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Well her nights quite often are only 10.5 hours which used to be fine as she was in a later wake up/bedtime routine and suited with getting up for work etc but last few days (which actually would coincide to switching back to long am ) she's been waking earlier plus she hasn't been waking in the night which is great but that also means an earlier start.
Ha I've gone for exactly what you suggested and she was asleep at 9. She wasn't showing any tired signs but went off straight away without a fuss. Will cap at 45 mins if she doesn't wake by herself. Hopefully after going back to short am we may see some later WU!!!
Oh god we've had a few of those days where we've had a crazy long A before bed. If it happened when she was younger we would have been up all night too with OT but nowadays she would probably wake once.. Fingers crossed you get a good night!
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He only slept for 30mins- all my nap capping must have set his body clock to short am nap..ah well at least he's on routine ;)
Good luck for you night Layla and hope EBT doesn't give you EW. Do you think refusing CN is a sign she's close to moving to 1 nap, or just over excitement at being somewhere different?
Hope rest of your day goes well Lolsyb, I found DS started waking earlier when he started STTN & sleeps in longer if he has a broken night. I would rather have the early start and the unbroken night though. Hope switching back to a short am nap gives you a later start x
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So I woke her after 45mins. Put down after 3.5hrs, went to sleep without a fuss but only slept for 1.15 so thinking 3hr45 was needed. Fell asleep at 6.30 so we'll see how she goes!!
Scottishmummy - hope your day/night went ok after the short morning nap?!
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Fingers crossed you get a good night and a later start tomorrow. DS made it until 2pm but then only slept an hour and was a bit OT at bedtime. I think I need to try capping the first nap again to 15mins (when he catches up on today's lost day sleep) as 30mins seems to give us a longer A time but shorter 2nd nap.
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We had a good night. She did wake up but I half expected it as she only drank 3oz milk at BT. She went straight back to sleep after a small bottle and woke at 5.50 so much more civilised WU!
Had another 1.15 sleep this pm again. Think we're gonna have to have a bit of trial and error what the right A time is after 30min am. She seems a bit tired still this afternoon so may have to go for slightly earlier BT.
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Lolsyb - don't know if it helps but I found 1hr 15 naps could be either OT or UT with jack. I had to go by his mood / alertness after the nap to tell which it was. Just thought I'd mention it in case it helps....
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That's interesting we've been getting several 1hr15 naps too. A times seem to really vary depending on night sleep & previous 1-2 days' naps though so it's hard to get it right.
All over the place today, DS woke at 4am & took almost 2hrs to resettle then he slept until 7. So we had a 1hr15 nap 10.55-12.10 & a catnap for 4.10-30 (aimed for 15mins but the walk with buggy overran) and then trouble getting DS to sleep but managed a 7.30 BT. Expecting a disrupted UT night though :(
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We had a lot too. Or 1hr 20 actually was jack's speciality. If I have to resettle a nap now, you can guarantee it'll be at that point! I assumed UT most of the time, but occasionally they were definitely OT.
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Yes I have to judge the UT/OT by her mood after the 1hr 15 too. I seriously am thinking about set nap/bed time as I'm sick of guessing A times! but I know the childminder doesn't work to such a strict schedule and naps are at slightly different times with her to at home so I don't think that would work for part of the week only?
Last night she was showing tired signs after 3hr30 so put her to bed but she fought it until the 4hr mark (same previous night) so I think maybe just ignore them and put her down just before 4hrs. She slept 11.25 hours so great night for her.
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Lolsyb - this is a bit off topic but does your childminder follow A times if you ask her to or does she have set naps or just follow cues? Will she wake your DD if you ask her to cap a nap? (Or leave her if you ask for that?) I go back to work properly in a few weeks and DS will have 2 days with my mum (who I have tried to explain A times to but she just goes on sleepy cues) and 2 days at nursery, who say they will follow whatever routine I set but I suspect they will try to get DS to fit in with others I.e. set nap times. I go with A times but adjust to sleepy cues and I'm a bit worried about how it will work out with 3 different approaches to his routine and whether it's all going to go horribly wrong with a confused, grumpy, OT baby by the time I get him on a Friday.
Ps- 4hrs for last A time sounds good - DS has needed that for a month or 2 now. I tried set nap times for a week but DS just won't sleep if he's not ready, and gets easily OT so I went back to aiming for set times but adjusting to sleepy cues.
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No she doesn't follow A times and just follows cues. Her naps with the cm are usually on the way back from dropping the older kids to school so about 9ish in the buggy, they then go off to baby groups and she puts her down to sleep after her lunch between 12.30/1 so she can have a long one before she leaves for the school run at 2.30. To be honest DD does pretty well there without a strict schedule so I've never asked her to change anything and again handles 2 different approaches to her routine quite well. I ended up changing mine slightly to fit in more with hers as DD seemed to be sleeping better at night on the days she was at the cm!
Yes I think you'll find at nursery once they are 1 they will try to get them all napping at the same time. I know a couple that I looked at were doing 30 mins at about 9.30 and then a long one at 12.30ish after their lunch. It might be that he settles into a nursery routine fairly easy and then you and your mum can change yours to match?
I was surprised how well DD fitted in at the cm as I worried so much that she wouldnt sleep or sleep for long enough but within a couple of days she was napping great there!!!!! :)
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Ok so we had a 1 nap day today!!!! (Not intentionally)
DD didn't fall asleep like normal on school run so cm went to group as usual (if I'd been at home with her id have been stressing about A times and cancelling any plans we had so she could have a later nap, but cm doesn't worry about that kind of thing!!) stayed awake until after lunch and I think slept an hour and half.
Thought she'd fall asleep on way home this evening but didn't and so quickly got her ready for bed and was asleep at 6.20.
Let's see what sort of a night we have!
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That's good (I think!) maybe the not falling asleep at usual time is a sign of getting ready for 1nap. Must be nice to just go with flow and not worry about A times etc. and looks like it paid off. Thanks also for your pat about naps at cm- very reassuring. I have to keep reminding myself that nursery are experts in babies and napping and I'm the amateur who is always just guessing!!
Thoughts on this please- DS will now only sleep an hour for 2nd nap if he has 30mins for first. He seems to be ok on it but he has always needed 2hrs day sleep & I don't know if background OT might be gradually building up as he's still waking early so only getting 10.5hrs at night at best. Would you just leave it and see how we go or try capping 1st nap at 15mins again and see if we can get at least 1.30 for second nap?
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If it were me I would try capping 1st nap again to try to get 1.5hr 2nd nap. What A time are you on after 30mins? You've already lengthened it haven't you without any luck? Could you try the odd 1 nap day and then other days he might be tired enough for 2 naps?
Well we shall see what kind of night we have before deciding wether it was good or not! I think she could handle 1 nap on the odd day but would like to hang on to 2 for a little longer (I think!)
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We get 4hrs A time after a 30min nap and pushing it much more will start really pushing bedtime back. We got about 3:30 the one time I tried capping it and a 1hr15 min nap but OT waking so might give that a go over next few days but try slightly shorter A time or more effort on the resettle. Don't think we can get 1 nap unless he wakes closer to 7 instead of 5.30!
Fingers crossed for a good night for us both x
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You could try 3.15 maybe after? Let us know how it goes :)
DD woke at 6 this morning so was very surprised we had a one nap day!
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I failed at the 15min nap- DS was so tired he wouldn't wake or woke then went straight back to sleep & I couldn't bear to wake him more forcefully. Going to try again at 30mins...
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Sorry, I went MIA for a few days....
Scottishmummy - I never got to 15mins. I've heard others do a mini catnap but to be honest, I would probably also have a very hard time waking dd3 after 15mins. With dd1 and 2, we got to 30mins. Were you capping the morning nap because afternoon nap wasn't long enough or its getting too late into the afternoon and bedtime is pushed too late?
We kinda do set nap times - our morning nap was always around 9am and still is, although has been pushed to around 9.15pm and afternoon nap after 45min morning nap is at around 1.30pm - so I guess that's 3.5hrs A. Our set naps have been around the av A times anyways.
We're back to the short am/long pm routine and its working much better! After that horrendous no pm nap day (which was probably due to excitement of everything going on), she seems to have settled into her old routine, except I've let her take 2hr pm nap yesterday and today didn't have the heart to wake her and let her have 2.5hr nap in the afternoon. She seems to be ok on a shorter, 10.5hr night so I'll just go with that for now ;D.
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DD woke at 5.10 this morning so just under 11 hours. Would be fine for a 2 nap but think she was OT from the 1 nap and wasn't overly long for 1 nap.
Layla in your experience do some babies still only take 90 mins even when on 1 nap. Also should her nights go back to nearer 12 hours once 1 nap is properly established?
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Layla, I was trying to cap the nap as the pm nap has often only been 1hr recently. That might be circumstance though...one day I was doing housework and the Hoover may have woken him, at the weekend we were out until the nap and he might have been over stimulated before the nap- and it was in the carseat, then yesterday my mum put him down after only 3:20 A time (I give him 4 hrs).
Today has gone like this so far:
5.40 wu
6 get up
Nap1- 9.30-10 (capped)
Nap 2- 2-2.40 (resettle needed) 2.45-3.05 (stirred but resettled him self) 3.05-? (Probably 3.30ish)
I'll aim for a 7.30 bedtime.
I wonder if I just need to go with a 9.30 & 2pm nap & the slightly longer day for now to ensure he gets all the day sleep he needs until he's ready for the first nap to be capped more or just to go.
What time does your DD wake up usually, Layla? I'm getting used to the 5.40 for 6 start but would love it to be even just 30mins later.
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Scottishmummy - our day was 14 hours long on 2 nap days towards the end of the 2-1. Someone suggested I move bedtime to 8/8.30, just to get the morning WU to a decent time, and then move it back again a few weeks later once we were through the 2-1. Worked for us - we even had a few glorious lie ins til 7.30 following one nap days! I didn't like the later nights though so personally I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't known we were very close to being properly on one nap. Sounds like you're close as well though?
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Oh my goodness..... what a morning!
K decided to wake at 4.40 this morning!!!!! Heard her trying to settle herself but couldn't. I went in and tried and failed, even rocking which is normally a winner wasn't working. Left her in her cot to play as no way was I getting up but then she starts standing up and shouting at the top of her voice to get her. Really starts getting worked up so think maybe she's hungry, has a few sips of her bottle (by now its almost 6am) then nuzzles her head into my arm which means shes sleepy. Falls asleep at 6 and then wakes at 6.40 bright and smiley....
What was that all about????
Her day yesterday was longer than usual but she did have more day sleep too as I was trying to get to a later BT/WU but failed miserably!!!!!
WU 5.10
Nap 9-9.45
Nap 1.30 - 2.30 (had to resettle) 2.45 -3.30 (woke her as bedtime was going to be too late)
Bed 7.15
Please let this transition hurry up!
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Oh no, you poor thing!!! We also had an awful night last night too. Jennifer woke at 11pm and we couldn't get her back to sleep until 2 am. I tried shh/pat, pu/pd, then tried rocking her, gave her the boob and in the end she fell asleep out of exhaustion. This morning though she was all stuffy so she's sick :(. She woke at 6.30am and couldn't stay awake past 8.30am so had a 45 min nap (she woke on her own as I wasn't going to do any waking today) and in the afternoon slept from 11.30-1.15pm and I tried to put her to bed at 5.30pm but she just cried so I tried again at 6 and then dh got home and had to stay with her until she finally fell asleep close to 7pm. She's woken briefly at 7.30 and I had to resettle her and it's now 10.30pm and I haven't heard her but I bet tonight will be similar to last night :(. She's a thumb sucker and when her nose is blocked she can't suck her thumb so self soothing skills are out the window. I put a vaporiser in her room so hope that helps.
When dd1 and 2 went to 1 nap, we went back to 12 hr nights but it wasn't for long and I remember dd1 (who is probably av on sleep) was down to 11hrs at night and 1.5 hr nap. In my opinion, 1.5 hr nap is still a good nap, even though it's the only nap of the day. I know the bw book mentions delicious 3 hr nap but dd1 never did those and was averaging 1.5-2hr nap. Dd2(who is high needs)on the other hand did longer naps and longer nights but she's definitely high needs.
Scottishmummy- J wakes around 6am too but some mornings it's earlier. The clocks are changing here in April and then it will be even earlier (eeeek)... Will the time change benefit you?
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Oh no poor Jennifer. We've had nothing but colds and chest infections etc since before xmas so know how you feel and how it messes their sleep up! Hope she feels better soon.
Oh ok that's good to know about the sleep and nap length as I just kept thinking about what the book said!!! She did a 1 nap day this week and was 1.5hrs and then had an 11 hour night so not bad then.
funny you mention the clocks changing, ours go forward end of March so these silly early Wu's won't seem so bad at all in a few weeks! Scottishmummy you will benefit too I take it???
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Yeah, Jack did 2-3 hr naps and around 11hrs at night when he first transitioned but within a couple of weeks of being fully on one nap, went back to 10.5hrs at night. He still generally does 2 - 2hrs 15 day sleep. I think we'd get longer nights if I capped his nap, but he's cutting 3 molars at the moment and not napping properly at nursery so I daren't cap with all that going on. I'm pretty sure it's causing some long nws but hard to tell with teething in the mix.
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I was going to ask about clock changes- will you let your LO sleep in to new time and move whole day forward or wake at new early time to keep the routine? I'm tempted to wake DS at "new" 6am to try to get the extra half hour sleep but not have to adjust the day too much. I don't think I would like him to have a 8/8.30 BT- I go to bed at 9.30 and would like a bit more evening to myself.
Scottishmummy - our day was 14 hours long on 2 nap days towards the end of the 2-1. Someone suggested I move bedtime to 8/8.30, just to get the morning WU to a decent time, and then move it back again a few weeks later once we were through the 2-1. Worked for us - we even had a few glorious lie ins til 7.30 following one nap days! I didn't like the later nights though so personally I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't known we were very close to being properly on one nap. Sounds like you're close as well though?
I hope so! We've been doing 13.5 hr days recently so not far off and with his A times around 4hrs it's hard to fit 2 naps in and get the day much shorter. The longer day doesn't seem to get him to sleep longer in the morning though, really hope that resolves on 1 nap. If his day gets much longer, I think I'm going to either try the 15min am nap again or go to long am/short pm and try to move it closer to one lunchtime nap.
Do you think K is having a growth or developmental spurt, Lolsyb? That sometimes throws night sleep off. Hope the rest of the day went more smoothly.
We had an early start too- 5.15..& he didn't go to sleep until almost 8 last night..I think there's some OT in there. He's taking a long afternoon nap right now & I think I should have woken him at 3 (went to sleep at 1.30) but I'm going to leave him until 3.30 to catch up on sleep and try for a 7.30 bedtime again. I read somewhere that naps are important to help catch up on lost night sleep but night sleep doesn't catch up on lost day sleep, not sure if that's true though, otherwise EBT wouldn't work.
Hope Jennifer gets better soon, Layla, illness messes up everything.
I don't think DS will ever do a 3hr nap- 2hrs day sleep & 10-11 hrs at night has been his average since about 4 mo, I don't see it suddenly increasing on 1 nap.
Better go to see to DS now otherwise we'll never get to bed tonight!
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LL&J I forgot to ask how nursery is going? Saw your post about short naps there..has Jack settled in & started sleeping better there yet? How many days is he at nursery?
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Scottishmummy - yes agree with you on the clocks. The problem I have is that her WU's can vary from 5am to 6.30. She has never had a consistent WU time even with her naps and BT being pretty consistent!!!
Will see what shes doing nearer the time I think, we have about 4 weeks yet and things can change dramatically in that time in a babies life!!!
Who knows how today is going, she's with the cm!! Hopefully well!!! x
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Oh dear... Only 1 nap again at the cm(and only an hour!) I think it's going to be like this now going forward. Will just have to do 2nap days on my days off.
Not going to start stressing about it and just going to see how she does and what her nights are like (she says whilst biting her nails!!)
Tonight she fell asleep on the way home for 10/15 mins. It's not ideal but nothing I could do. Didn't know how long until bedtime so just waited for an eye rub. She went down at 6.45 without a fuss.
We shall see what sort of a night we get and what time she decides to wake up tomorrow!!
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Scottishmummy - we always got short nights after long days too. It's so hard cos you end up in an UT/OT loop and no decent sleep anywhere. Wake up was always 5.30, regardless of whether BT was 6.30 after one nap, or 8 after two (by the time he settled - I used to pd at 7.30 at the latest until we purposely moved bedtime back).
Thanks for asking about nursery too. We're back to two naps on nursery days, just when I thought we'd seen the back of them forever! He's only sleeping 30-40 minutes at nursery and has to be resettled at least once to do even that. So I've been trying to squeeze in an afternoon nap as well. He's not doing more than another 40 - 45 minutes, but that seems to be ok for him. He actually went back to an 11hr plus night the first time he did it which was nice! The second day he slept longer, and later in the afternoon so a normal 10.5hr night after that. Not bad though.
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LL&J - I also saw your post re: naps at daycare... I bet its frustrating going back to 2 but it sounds like he's taking well to them :)
Lolsyb - how did you end up going at night?
Scottishmummy - when the time changes, I'll have to do some work on pushing her day forward as she'll be waking up at 5am so unfortunately the clocks changing are not going to be in my favor this time ::). Our days are around 13hrs at the moment with wake up around 6am and bedtime at 7 but she is messing about at bedtime and today was the first day she cried out a bit when I put her down for her afternoon nap (which was around 3.5hrs A).... not really wanting to push that more because she needs to be done napping by 3pm (school pick up) and so I guess the next step for us will be to shorten her morning nap to 30mins. My mum has been staying with me for the past couple of days (we're trying to get J used to her before I go back to work) and this morning I told her to wake her up at 45mins and she told me she doesn't feel comfortable waking her up and that J will wake when the time is right (thankfully J did as I only put her down 3hrs A and she had an under tired nap). I can just see it...mum is not going to follow our schedule ::)
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Layla - she woke at 4am! She's not crying, just awake and either sitting or standing up in her cot with her teddy. I can hear that she tries to resettle herself but then doesn't and is then back up looking around etc.
Took 45mins to get her back to sleep and stay asleep (she feel asleep twice but few minutes later was awake again) she then woke at 6.15. Back at the cm today so no doubt another day of no morning nap!
Does that sound like OT or something else??
It's hard work trying to teach someone else your routine and getting them to follow it. I also find that older generations can't get their heads around following a book for parenting. I know my mum just looks at me sometimes when I start spouting off about A times, UT/OT etc etc.
My cm is an older lady too and so would never be able to get her to follow my routine. Hope it all works out well once nanny takes over :)
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Layla, that's frustrating that your mum isn't on board with your routine for Jennifer. Is she going to be doing the childcare when you go back to work? Would she cap the nap if you explained that there might be a knock on effect for you at night if she doesn't? That worked on my mum as she knows that we've struggled with NWs until very recently and doesn't want to be responsible for bringing them back.
I hadn't realised that your clock changes were opposite to us, but makes sense as you'll be going into autumn now as we approach Spring. I was lucky when our cloks went back in October as DS was going through 3-2 then so I gave him a catnap and later bedtime the night before then he did resettle to sleep to a near normal time on the Sunday morning. I read on this site that some people gradually push whole routine back by 15mkns over the course of a fortnight but I was nowhere near organised enough to do that!
Lolsyb- when DS wakes like that in the night- not crying but awake & alert- it either means he's UT somewhere in day or he's going through a developmental change and learning a new skill. It reminds me of when I have a lot on at work and wake in the night with my mind racing . Do either of those sound possible?
LL&J - I think my DS is similar to your Jack sleepwise- early riser, habitual wu time, pushing A times fairly early (although not as early, I doubt we'll be on one nap before 12mo). We get UT/OT loop with long days too- good to hear it's not just us. Sounds like he's evening his sleep out, hope he settles at nursery soon though. How many days is he there?
DS pushed his first A time to over 4hrs today so I tried for long am/short pm as I couldn't fit everything in otherwise. He woke after an hour which I think was either UT as he took ages to settle to sleep or hunger as he usually has milk at 10. So this was our day today:
Wu 5.45, get up at 6
Nap 1- 9.50-10.50
Nap 2 - 3-3.30 (APOP in buggy)
BT- 7pm
If he has a good night, going to try milk at 9.30 tomorrow, nap at 10 and hope for a longer one.
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Hi Scottishmummy, yes they've usually even UT for us too but know for sure that's not the case this wk. sometimes when she's OT she also becomes a bit wired and so I think this is the problem. That or developmental. I know we've just finished a wonder week so not that but could be gearing up to walk? She has started with a push along walker.
Who knows?? Again only an hour ish nap for cm today. Put her to bed at 6, was asleep by 6.20.
I'm off work tom so hoping I can get 2 naps in. We have a baby group at 9 so hoping she might fall asleep in the car around 10 on the way home??!
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Ok so better night last night. Slept from 6.20 - 5.30. Would have liked her to have an extra half hour but big improvement on the previous 2 nights.
We had to go out in the car early this morning and she fell asleep at 8.30 until 9. Too early really for her nap and has messed the day up a bit bit going to try to hang her out until 1 for 2nd nap. Hopefully she'll do 1.5hrs but at least I can try and resettle if wakes earlier unlike the cm can.
Fingers crossed!
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I think DS has been reading this thread and decided to copy/swap routines with your DD, Lolsyb. 4.40 wu this morning, awake for an hour then back to sleep after milk for another hr. got him down for a nap at 11 (4.15 A time). Really hoping for a long one.
It's hard entertaining him in the morning until a late am nap as the activities & groups near us start around 10, which is too late for us to get there then get home, snack & WD for nap. Any tips for keeping LOs entertained & sufficiently stimulated in the morning when on a long am/short pm??
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Oh no Scottishmummy!!!! It's blooming awful isn't it!!
Hope you get a long nap, what will you do if not?
I struggle to entertain K for that many hours too. At the moment she loves water so I fill a bowl and put on the floor on some plastic sheets and give her funnels/measuring cups to play with in the water with some bubbles.
We have a park at the end of the road to so we go there sometimes for a quick go on the baby swing/slide. Do you have a park close by you could go to early? Although with UK weather the park isn't always an option!!!
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Stirring sounds at 1hr15...please keep sleeping! If he wakes we'll do a 15min CN at 4.15 then bed at 7.30. Not sure what I'll do if he keeps sleeping actually - super early BT or micro (5-10min) CN later on or walk in buggy to rest but not nap then EBT???
Water is a good idea- will try that. We have a park about 15 mins away but sometimes I think he rests too much in buggy on way there and back. Tried the garden this morning but he got upset as it was a bit cold and his bottom & legs got wet from the grass, even through a mat!
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Hmmm I used to always go for SEBT and she was really good at tacking on but not so much anymore, does DS tack on? I think I'd be tempted to go for the micro nap if you think he will wake REALLY early tom.
Put Kitty down at 1, took 10 mins to drop off and woke after 1hr 5 mins. Managed to resettle but woke after 10 mins and couldn't resettle a 2nd time. She hadn't shown any tired signs beforehand so could she have been UT? I thought 4hrs after 25 min sleep would have been more than enough? Can they up their A times that much in just a day or so?
Had enough of bad naps this wk!!
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Not sure Lolsyb - DS seems to be pushing his a quite a quick rate... Would you be prepared to do quiet activities from 3hr45 or so & wait for her to give tired signs before putting her down & see how long she lasts?
He slept for 1hr45 which is a really good nap for him. We were out and about this afternoon so he ended up having 10 mins cn in car on way home 4.10-4.20 (about 3:30 A time) Quite pleased as I didn't really want to do a 5.30 BT as he's not good at tacking on sleep- that cn should give us a BT between 7 & 7.30 hopefully.
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I usually do wait for eye rubs (although they're not that reliable either!) but after the OT week she's had I wasn't taking chances but still got it wrong!
Just can't get these A times right recently ??? ???
That's a great nap. Glad the day worked out well. I just want to get back to a 7pm bedtime. We're stuck in a early rise early bed!
Hey ho tomorrow's another day :)
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Please help my little 1 is 14 months we've got our morning activity time to 4 hours 30 so he's sleeping longer periods up to two hours but he's waking so early last few days we having to give cat nap as late as 4.30 and its really hard to get him to have it. Seems to be getting worse rather than better. Here's last 2 days easy
W 6.45 ( best day)
S 11.15-12.30
S 16.35 ( tried to put up at 3.45)-17.15
I woke him
Bed 7 asleep 7.30
W 6
S 10.30-12.30
S 16.35 ( tried at 4) till 5.15 woke himself
Bed 7 woke 5.30
I'm aware cat nap very late but don't no how to change things with him getting up so early
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Hi Sarah. Is your lo taking that cat nap in the cot? Have you tried APing it? That's what I found we had to do towards the end of the 2-1. You might get him to take it a bit earlier if it's in the car or buggy. Also, we had to move bedtime back a bit (we were doing 14 hour days in the end!). Have you tried a bedtime of 7.30 or anything? Or, set a point at which he needs to be asleep for a cat nap (say 4ish), and if he doesn't take it by then, do EBT. Probably the next day he'd be more tired and more likely to nap in the afternoon.
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Hi sarahb1983, have you tried the other way so CN in the morning and longer nap in the pm? They usually go down easier and earlier if they've only had a short 30 min am nap. This may help with the EW too?
I also have seen some mums going to 1 nap and an early bedtime once they can handle 4.5hr A time but with the EW it's tricky isn't it!
We are also dealing with the short nights and early mornings and DD is only 11 months so think we have some way to go before on 1 nap.
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We tried this before and just wasn't working as just wouldn't go down any earlier than about 3.5 hours and then wanting 3.5 hours till next sleep. It's how we were successful with my first daughter just no idea what to do anymore. Any idea of what I should aim for?
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He very rarely sleeps in pushchair done it last time around Xmas once he'd been awake ages and we were visiting family. Rarely sleeps in car as well. Problem is if he's waking at 12.30 from 1st nap bedtime would be 5pm and wouldn't fit tea in
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Trying putting up for nap at 4 hour mark for 30 min nap. He's not happy don't no what to do. Currently screaming usually straight to sleep
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I've given up can't bear to hear him screaming and feels like all the work to get him to 4.5 hours will have been wasted. Will try cat nap 3.5 hours after he wakes and maybe early bed or later bed depending on when he has it. How long should cat nap be?
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Put him up at 10.00 asleep by 10.10 and still sleeping now. If only he'd get up at a reasonable hour we'd have cracked it with early bedtime. What to do now to make it to reasonable bedtime?
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I think the 3 of us who are on the thread who do short am have a routine similar to this
WU...
Nap 1 after 3.5/4hrs 30/45 mins
Nap 2 after 3.5 hrs 1.5hrs
Bed 3.5/4hrs after
Your DD is a little older than ours though so you may want to check on the toddler board what older ones are doing?
Their day does become pretty long and I think most of us are on about 13.5/14 hr days!!
What time did he wake in the end?
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Got up at 12.30 so 2 hour 20 min nap going to go out and hope for a nap in the car. Only problem is my 2 year old fell asleep in car and trying to drop her nap completely!
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Hi Sarahb
My DS is only 11 months and has just started pushing his A times to similar lengths as your LO- 4hr20 this morning and still got an UT 45min nap - & he also won't go to sleep at an earlier A time anymore so we're switching to long am/short pm. We have EWs too- around 5.30/45 every morning regardless of bedtime so we also need a late pm catnap & also end up with 14hr days
I have found that he won't sleep in his cot until his full A time but will go to sleep earlier (e.g. After 3-3hr30 or so) if in car or buggy. As LL&J suggests, I'd keep the long am nap with full A time and then try AP-ing a cn around 3.30 or 4pm for 15 mins only. That usually gives us BT of 7/7.30
Other option looking at your routine & your baby's age : How long is his A time without cn? I've found DS will do a longer 2nd A after a good nap. Maybe he's ready for just 1 nap now? If he's managing a 2-2.20 hr nap middle of the day, do you think he could go without a cn until an EBT or as long as he'll last? Maybe it's the cn on top of the long middle of day nap that's giving you EW?
How's everyone's weekend been? As said above DS just seems to be pushing his A times longer and longer. Tried for long am/short pm today but got two 45 min naps instead. Tomorrow & Tuesday my mum has him and she always puts him down for a nap too early so I think we're in for an UT/OT loop of a week :(
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Took your advice. We tried a cat nap in car but he wasn't having any of it so gave tea early and in bed for 5.45 that's 5 hrs 15 activity fingers crossed we get a decent wake up and then just go for it with 1 nap
And early bed for a bit
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We had a shocking week but weekends naps have been better over the weekend.
We have a 1st A now of 4.15/20. Did long am yesterday and slept for 1.5hrs and then went down in the afternoon and had to wake her after an hr.
Today went back to short am. 45 mins after 4hr A and then a 2hr nap (which I had to wake her from!!!) after only 3.15A and was ready for bed 3.15 after that.
Wonder if the 1 nap days last wk and EW (still waking between 5/5.30) are catching up with her? It seems like she likes her 1st A pretty long but then they drop right back as day goes on. No doubt naps will all go out the window again at cm this wk!!
Scottishmummy - sounds like DS is very close to 1 nap days. Why do you think your mum will put him down early? Does he give tired cues a while before he actually needs to go to bed?
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Lolsyb - My theory is that she puts him down early because when he was younger he was very sensitive to OS and easily OT and so she's worried about not being able to get him to nap, tends to do too little with him (she just wants to cuddle him most of the time- he's an active 11mo not a newborn!) so he gets bored and then shows tired signs and she winds him down for a nap. I've tried asking her to do more with him & keep him up longer but she always says "he just seemed really tired and he went down no fuss" ... Yes because you bored him to sleep! Sorry, rant over.
Glad your wkend has been better- those are super naps!
Good luck for tonight, Sarah , sounds like he might be ready for just the one nap after all.
OT by bedtime tonight and doing the tired but wired thing. Asleep by 7 though- fingers crossed he catches up on some sleep tonight.
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Hi ladies, been away a bit, Jennifer is sick so things are a bit unsettled with us. On Friday she had 1.5hrs in the morning (I don't like waking her when she's unwell) and then 2.5hrs in the afternoon and went down for the night 3hrs A and didn't wake up at stupid o'clock the next morning :o. I woke at 3am looking at the monitor and couldn't get back to sleep, I kept thinking she'll be up any minute and so I started playing Sudoku on my phone.... I was a walking zombie on Saturday! I was planning on doing 30min nap from here on and I did it sat and she went down at 1pm for afternoon nap with no problems but yesterday I let her have longer am nap as we had to go out and she had a shorter pm nap but was very tired and cranky all afternoon (probably because she's sick too). Back to normal routine today and its 30min nap from now on ;D. We are working on tooth #6 ;D.
Sarah - your LO is probably not going to be able to do a late catnap is her sleep is 2hrs - I would go for an earlier bedtime. Dd1 dropped to 1 nap around 15months so I would say now its a matter of offering him a nap around 3.5hrs A but if he doesn't take it by say 10am (if he wakes at 6am for the day), then forget the nap and make that 1 nap day, around 11am and let him sleep up to say 3hrs and then do an earlier bedtime. This is what I did with dd1 and 2 and eventually towards the end they used to take their morning nap less and less (I still offered them "quiet time" in the cot). It all depended on wake up time, how well they slept at night and what other things were going on (like teething, which used to set us back almost always and we'd go back to 2 naps). There is a support thread for those that are going through the 2-1 but are over 12months Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 6 or you're more than welcome to continue posting here if you like ;D. Oh and hugs for going through the 1-0 with your other dd... it's tough going through both transitions at the same time!!!
Scottishmummy - my mum is the same!!! As soon as Jenny puts her thumb in her mouth (which she does when she's bored too), mum tells me its time to put her down ::).
Lolsyb - I second that... those naps are awesome! Hope the cm doesn't ruin things for you.
Edit to add - OMG, I am such a sucker for her sweet sleeping face - I went into her room to wake her up at 30mins and couldn't do it; I then went in at 45mins and still couldn't do it lol! Oh well, maybe I should give it long am/short pm a go again :P.
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Haha your edit just made me laugh Layla! I know that feeling well.
Hope Jennifer feels better soon and that tooth doesn't cause too many problems. Can't believe we've only just had tooth no 3 come through. No sign of no 4 so think she's going to look funny when the 3rd one is fully through!
Yep naps have been awesome. Haven't had a 2hr nap in months! Wonder how much longer she would have slept if I hadn't woken her. She really didn't want to wake and didn't appreciate it at all!
It's just these 5am starts that are driving me nuts! DH tells me to stop moaning and be thankful she's sttn which she has only been doing for about 6 weeks. My mum also tells me the same!
Is it just something I'm going to have to live with whilst going through the transition or do any of you ladies have any ideas how to fix it? She's having a 10.5hr night which I know is normal, I'd just like to be able to wake at 6am instead.
Suppose it's just a case of keep pushing that first A time. We're at 4.15 if doing long am nap so getting there.
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With you in the hating waking them up, Layla! I can do it if DS wakes when I open the curtains or say his name but not if it involves much more..that's why we're struggling to do a 15min am nap.
With you in the early starts too, Lolsyb. We're same re recently starting STTN and I do prefer EW to broken nights but a 6am start would feel much more human! Holding out for the clock change now.
A broken night here and 5am start which I think is all due to OT from yesterday. Put him down for am nap at 9 & going to give him 30mins and ask my mum to keep him going until at least 1pm and ideally 1.30 & hope he takes an ok nap with her.
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Lolsyb - so she's waking consistently at 5am and are you doing short morning nap at 9am and capping it right? That would be my first suggestion and then as you said maybe slowly pushing it to 9.30am? Is something waking her up (birds)? Sorry if stupid question but I remember next door neighbour would head to work at5.30am in the morning and wake dd1 up every single time (except weekends).
Scottishmummy - I can't even imagine trying to wake her up 15mins from morning nap...she would be pretty angry if I did too. Maybe experiment with 30mins again and slightly shorter or longer 2nd A? On 30mins, Jenny will be able to do 3hrs A and will sleep up to 2hrs.
Well she ended up sleeping 2hrs in the morning (nap ended at 11:15am) and I put her down at 2.15pm in the afternoon and she went to sleep and slept for an hour... just in time for school pick up but we had so much trouble at bedtime. I either completely missed her window or she just wasn't tired enough or she is teething. I put her down at 6.30pm and she didn't fall asleep until just after 8pm. I was in and out of her room... I feel so sad when she has trouble going down for the night because the rest of her day is so good and I hate her going to bed sad :(. I don't know if its a routine issue or something else. I am really tempted to keep her awake tomorrow until 11am and letting her have 1 nap days and earlier bedtime!
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Sorry you had trouble at bedtime, Layla, it does feel so disappointing after a good day. Am I right that she had 3 hrs total at sleep though? Is that normal for her? I only ask because DS doesn't do more than 2 hrs in the day. Would capping the 2 nd nap & having a longer A time before bed help?
DS will do 4 hrs A time after a 30mjn capped nap and if he sleeps over an hour will then need 4.5 A time before he'll go to sleep...but will still wake up at same time so then ends up getting OT over time due to losing night sleep. So if I'm not prepared to wake him after a 15min am nap, I think we need to go for long am/short pm. Tricky as he's meant to be starting nursery settling in days this week at 10.30-11.30- when he should asleep if we do long am. Might have to do a short am nap in the buggy those days as it's easier to wake him from a buggy nap.
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Slightly OT but I'm planning DS's first birthday party and trying to work out the best time of day to invite people by predicting what his nap schedule will be in 4 weeks time ???
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Layla - well last 2 days have been 5am, day before 5.30. Yes have been doing short nap in am after 4hr A, yesterday was 4.10A and capping at 45 mins. The past couple of days she has had 2.75hrs daytime sleep whereas it's usually 2hrs and she would wake herself after 1.5hr in pm. As she was sleeping longer I assumed she needed it so haven't woken her until the 2hr mark but maybe I should have? I think that would have just meant a shorter A time before bed though and probably still an early WU.
I have tried a later BT but think then she just gets OT and ends up waking at the same time anyway.
There's nothing waking her up at that time. DH doesn't get up until 5.45 in the week and the rest of the street are still fast asleep :). Just got to keep pushing that first A I think.
Scottishmummy - DS can really handle some long A times can't he! Buggy naps seem like the best option to me this week and then maybe switch to long am as of next??
Haha just seen your last post. I too am having this problem! I am thinking that day give her a long am nap and so party just after lunchtime. If anything they will be closer to 1 nap by then so could just do EBT that day?? What do you think?
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Well thanks ladies still early day but asleep by 6 and up at 6.15 so very happy. The wake and feed in the night is another issue! Put him
Down at 11 so hoping for a decent nap and then early bed. Fingers crossed and good luck to you all
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I agree with lolsyb, scottishmummy. If you're down to 15 minute cat naps I reckon you'll be pretty much through the 2-1 in a months time. I'd go for late lunch / early afternoon and plan a late, short cat nap if he doesn't nap well - or an EBT.
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Thanks for suggestions- sending invites out for a 1pm lunch and keeping fingers crossed!
Sounds like a good result, Sarah :)
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How did today go at cm, Lolsyb? Another 1 nap day?
As predicted my mum put DS down too early, he only slept 45 mins so now looking at another OT bedtime, night and probable EW tomorrow :( feeling quite down about this week's sleep already as I have to go to a work meeting tomorrow afternoon so she'll have him then, then the nursery visits Wed & Thurs so probably a mess by Friday :( :(
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I don't know how its gone? I pick her up at 5 and don't call during the day so will find out then. Am thinking probably 1 nap though as the cm wasn't walking to school but driving this morning so she wouldn't have had enough time to fall asleep before group.
No doubt will be an OT hours nap too so EBT for her and see how the night goes.
Oh it's frustrating when they don't follow your routine. My mum and MIL had Kitty in the half term and although they do follow my routine I find I have a lot less to worry about when the cm has her as she just gets on with it and I don't get 3 phone calls a day asking what to do next!
Could you be really strict with her and stress not to put him down before a certain time? When does he start nursery properly?
I felt like you did last week, it takes me all weekend to get her back on track only for it to go out the window again come Monday! How old are they when they drop naps completely?????? Roll on then!!!! haha
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2 rubbish short naps today at cm :(
20 mins am and 40 pm. Asleep at 6.05, let's hope she tacks on at least 30 mins as a 4.30am wake up will be horrific!
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Oh dear, Lolsyb, very similar to our day but I pushed for a 6.30 BT as doing 6pm before got us stuck with 5am wake ups for a while. Probably a mistake though as he just woke screaming after 35mins- definitely OT. Good luck for your night x
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I thought being so we've already got 5am wake ups it was worth a shot!
Hope you don't have anymore wakings and a decent WU x
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Not so good don't no if I pushed him 2 far as was at a baby group heard him at 12 so had 45 mins to 1 hour. Them when out to zoo after lunch didn't go sleep in pushchair but never does. Was bk in bed for 3.30 and we woke him after an hour was going to do later bedtime at 7.30 but seemed shattered. Slept 7-6. Will try again today,
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Sarah - 7-6 seems like a good night to me. We are stuck on 5am wake ups so 6am would be heaven!
Scottishmummy - how did your night go?
Kitty woke at..... You've got it 5am! Doesn't tack on like she used too. Wonder if I should have tried a bit later like you did? Although often if OT we only get a 10 hr night so probably would have been same WU time!
Has anyone tried w2s? I'm tempted as I'm wondering if this is habitual now? But scared it'll backfire though and we'll be up at 4 something?!
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I am always scared to do w2s but its worth a try... maybe its just habitual :-\. I wouldn't be doing a later bedtime though, I would aim at pushing the day forward and start with the morning nap so that the last A isn't too long....at least she didn't wake up at 4.30am, that would be a yucky time to start the day! Dd1 was around 28months when she dropped her nap but then started taking it again when I put her in childcare a few months later but I asked them to stop it because bedtime was getting harder and harder and dd2 napped for aaaages, till she was over 4! She's my high sleep needs child - still does 11hr nights ;D.
We had our very first rubbish afternoon nap - well it was only an hour long. I let her have 45mins in the morning and did the usual 1.30pm nap but she woke at 2.30 and wouldn't go back to sleep. Put her to bed at 6.30... not sure if that's the right time or not but I just didn't want a repeat of last night and I was scared of putting her down earlier in case she would fight it. She was asleep when I checked the monitor at 6:40pm so she must have been tired. Hope she can pull 11.5hr night ::). I think I should get more strict about shortening her morning nap and sticking to 30mins.
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Good luck for your night, Layla.
5am wu is frustrating, Lolsyb. Quite recently she was sleeping until 6, what do you think changed it? DS wakes habitually at 5.30 so I have no good advice I'm afraid. Asked my HV and she just advised to not give milk or put lights on until 6, which I do anyway and makes no difference. Not tried w2s as I just can't face setting my alarm for 4.30. I did try going in just before he woke to try and resettle as he was stirring which fixed a habitual EW at 6mo, but it didn't work this time.
I do think pushing first A time is worth a shot though. I'm going to work on it more now. DS slept 11hrs last night so a 5.30 wu. I don't have to go into work until lunch time so decided to aim for long am/short pm so not relying on my mum's judgement of A times & sleep cues.
Tried for a nap at 9.45 and he was just playing in the cot. Repeated WD and tried again at 10. Got a 45min nap. He'd had 200ml of milk and some toast at 9.15 so he wasn't hungry. He wouldn't resettle so I can only assume UT, especially as he was so awake at first attempt So he now seems to need more than 4.5hrs for 1st A time!!
Will hold 4.5 for a couple of days then up it gradually until we get a good first nap & try for 2x 45min naps until then. I've phoned nursery to rearrange settling in for early afternoon tomorrow & Thurs. Still feeling frustrated about sleep but better now I have a plan.
Sarah-I'm no expert but have read that LOs alternate 2 & 1 nap days during the transition..do you think that's what is happening? Hope you have a better day today.
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Scottishmummy - She was going to bed at 7/7.30 so wake up was 6/6.30. Not sure what happened but now we've got stuck in a earlier to wake and earlier to bed routine which I can't get her out of!
Couldn't push 1st A today as had to go out at 10 but from Friday it's my plan to start pushing it closer to 4.5 and keep at 45 mins but is going to mean us now missing out on baby groups for a while I think as they start at 10. She almost fell asleep at 7.30 this morning!!! I'd put her in her cot with some toys whilst I was busy and could hear her making the noises she does when going to sleep (funny child, pushes her bum in the air and makes grunting noises to go to sleep!) went into her room and she had just fallen asleep in amongst her toys!!! Was tempted to leave her she looked so sweet but didn't!
Sounds like you had the same night as us, 11 hours. If only they did that every night! 4.5 hrs and still UT!!! What do you think his A time would need to be before trying 1 nap?
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Aww the early mornings & short naps must be catching up on her. When is your DD's birthday btw? Looking at your ticker I think it might be just a day before my DS.
What about your LOs Layla & LL&J, when do they turn 1?
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Yes I think they must be. Her A times have decreased and another mammoth nap again this afternoon. Had to wake after 2 hrs (although had to resettle after an hour as OT. She sobbed for 10 mins after waking her so not sure if she was in a deep sleep or I startled her??
Do you think I should be letting her sleep this much in the day? I've never had to wake her really before as she would only ever sleep 1.5hrs. Makes me think she does need it being so it's not her usual pattern but could that be adding to the early wu??
So what are your A times now, 4.5 1st one and then??? Just wondering how to structure her day if I do push that 1st A to 4.5hrs? Don't think there'd be time to do 45 mins in the morning and then a long pm? Would I need to swap to long am then and hope for long nap with short pm or stick to long pm and cap morning to 30 mins?
Her bday is 27th March. Think she's a day older than your DS? Can't believe how quickly her 1st yr has gone :(
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It's jack's birthday today :) One already! It's not fair!
We appear to be going through the 2-1 again on nursery days. I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and stick to one nap on those days cos I'm having to AP a very late afternoon nap (can't get him down before 4), and he's then fighting bedtime and waking in the night. Mind you, maybe he would with one short nap too! I don't know. I think I need to try EBT cos when I'm working I'll have no choice and I need to figure out what time works for him. Urgh. I hated the 2-1 and now it feels like I'm going through it again :(
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Happy birthday Jack!!
Oh how frustrating for you! Hopefully being so he was through it once it might not take too long to get back there this time.
I'm finding this 2-1 painful!!
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Happy B'day Jack!!! ;D
LL&J - that must be so frustrating!!!
I think once they can do 4.5hrs, you could probably do 1 nap days (provided they sleep at least 2 hrs ::)) and rather than doing a cn, do an earlier bedtime? My aim is to get her to 11am (which will actually be more like 5hrs A because mine is 6am riser) and make those days 1 nap days and then do 6pm bedtime, which is another 5hrs A. Also, if you're going to add more A and still do shorter am/longer pm nap, probably a good idea to shorten the morning nap to 30mins so that her afternoon nap isn't too late in the afternoon. I think this is where we are at now too. Your LO's b'day is a day after dd1's b'day and 3 days after DH's. I am surrounded by Aries people - DH, dd1 and dd3 ;D
DD3 is 11 months today ;D
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I'm not sure we'll ever make it to 1 nap with these 5am starts! She can't go to bed at 5pm!
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Massive hugs to you... I went through lots and lots of 5am starts with dd1 before she was on 1 nap... the time change probably can't come soon enough for you... just remember that very soon it will be 6am starts and as long as you don't go back to putting her down for her nap earlier, hopefully she'll be stuck on 6am wake ups :-*
I think I am completely crazy and I've decided to do the long am/pushing it out and earlier bedtime option as opposed to worrying about the catnap or waking her up. This morning I put her down at 9.30am (she woke earlier than 6am) and I let her sleep as long as she wanted and she slept till 12pm (2.5hrs). She moved around a bit at 1.5hrs and then again at 2hrs but then put herself back to sleep. There was no point in doing the cn, I wouldn't have been able to anyway because dd1 has a dance lesson that start at 4pm and she didn't fall asleep then so as soon as we got home I gave her dinner and then bath and bed by 5pm... It'll be interesting to see when she wakes tomorrow morning. Just praying we don't have any OT night wakings :P. Tomorrow I plan on keeping her up till 9:45am and will keep it at that for 3 days before I move onto 10am, etc... I just hope that my plan works. I plan on giving her a catch up 2 nap day every 3rd day...If she can do 2.5hr naps, things should work out (haha, I am in denial, for sure ;)).
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Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone! I'm very impressed with your scrolling message, layla!
Layla - hope your plan works! It sounds good to me - it's kind of what I did with Jack, informally. As in, I did a cn if he didn't nap well, rather than every third day, but same idea really. Hopefully you'll be through it soon.
Yes, the nursery thing is very frustrating, but more cos I have to steel myself again against pushing J to stay up longer and trust he'll cope. He actually handles OT very well, and we've had way more problems from him being UT, but I still worry! It's that mental torture which is the worst bit of the 2-1 for me. But I think I've got to go for it anyway.
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Yes can't come quick enough Layla. Imagine if the clocks were going back!!!!!! Phew!!!!
Not that I'll actually get any more sleep it'll just seem a whole lot better seeing 6 on my phone when I open my eyes rather than 5!
Your plan sounds good. I had similar thoughts last night actually but not sure long am is the best route for us with the ew? Although with a 4.5h A time surely she wouldn't be using the morning nap as an extension of night time sleep? I just want to see how long she can sleep for without having to wake her. Will still need to do a short cn for now due to the ew but tbh the short am nap isnt making any difference to the 5am starts so can't see it doing any harm?
Fingers crossed you get a good night :)
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Scottishmummy - how did your nap go this morning? Did DS get on ok at his settling in session?
We had a better cm day today... 1 nap after lunch and she had 1.5hrs!
Seemed very wide awake tonight and fought BT for about 20 mins so prob OT. Asleep 6.35. Let's see what night we get?!
Layla- how did your night go?? Hope you didn't get a crazy wu??
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We had a 6.15 wu this morning (well 6.13- 11hrs to the dot after he went to bed) ! I had to check the baby monitor to make sure it was still working! Surprised as he had 2 short naps yesterday and I expected OT EW.
It made me realise that DS only needs 12hrs total sleep- so if he has 2 short naps he'll do an 11 hr night..if he has 1.5 hrs in day he'll do 10.5 hrs and 2hrs only a 10hr night. Explains why shifting BT to accommodate longer A time after better naps never changed wu time much. Also makes me realise that until DS can cope with long enough A times to take 1 nap and not need a cn, we're stuck with a longer day & shorter night. So maybe I just need to accept it for now and wait out the longer A times.
Happy birthday for yesterday, Jack! Will you stay with us LL&J or go on to 2-1 on toddler sleep board? Your advice is so helpful, please still drop in.
Talking of which- how long a cn did you give Jack after a good am nap and how much A time before bed? DS slept 10.30-12 today then I did a 10min cn at 4pm hoping for a 7.30BT but DS was exhausted before 7 (he'll do 3.5-4hrs A time after 30mins- not wanting to risk an 8 or 8.30BT, but I think that worked for you for a while?)
Sounds like a good plan, Layla-especially if J will sleep for over 2hrs- wow! Hope you get/had a good night and didn't get too early a start from a 5pm bedtime. I'm scared to do BT that early - always assume we'd get a 4am wu as a result.
Lolsyb - I was thinking about your DD falling asleep at 7.30 yesterday. It sounds like she might be trying to catch up on some night sleep. If it happens again I wonder if you left her, started day from new wake up time (maybe with 1 nap if good) and then got a 7/7.30BT It might reset her to 6am again?
This is a bit extreme but the thing that stopped our habitual 5am wakings was going on a holiday. DS's routine got completely messed up with the travel,, he was sleeping at odd times, waking in the night, waking at different times in the morning...but when we got home he reset himself to 5.30 again...not great but better than 5am or earlier!
His bday is March 29th btw, so 2days younger than your DD. Ticker must be confused by Feb being short.
Anyway- enough waffling from me. Going to try & stick with long am/short pm here and hope for the best.
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Cross posted Lolsyb - we got a 1.5 hr nap after 4hrs20 awake. Not sure why that worked today and not yesterday though ???
Could you AP a cn on a one nap cm day and maybe get a later BT and hope for a later wu the next day?
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She used to fall asleep in the car on the way home and I would allow 15 mins and she used to go to bed at 7.30 then. She's not falling asleep now on the way home. Probably would if I drove a little longer. Might be worth a try? It's like we just need to break the habit.
She was falling asleep again this morning in the car at 8am and had to keep wiggling the car seat. Thought she would then fall asleep on way to school but didn't.
Glad you got a better nap this morning. Kitty always used to need 13 hours and would have 2 daytime and 11 night so thinking I need to cap both naps until we get later WU and 1 nap?
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I'll hang around here for a while yet ;) I'm on the toddler sleep thread already (got mixed up with this one once I think), but there's always good chat here :)
Scottishmummy - I'm not sure I ever got that last A time right I'm afraid and we had a lot of bedtime resistance and short nights. But I came to find it was unusual for jack to settle on less than a 14hr day. It was weird - he'd fight bedtime til 14 hours after he woke in the morning, almost to them minute! But I used to do a nap around 10.30 / 11 - 12.30 / 1ish and then he wouldn't go back down til 4 / 4.30. I used to do 15 minutes at the end (AP'd) and bedtime at 7.30. I only did a later BT right at the end of the transition with the aim of shifting the whole day to get WU later so I could properly go to one nap.
That's interesting your LO only needs 12hrs btw. Jack only needed about 13hrs from quite a young age, but I'm pretty sure has dropped recently to around 12 - 12.5 hrs. But if that's right I need to cap his nap to preserve night sleep and I'm not ready to do that yet - especially with poor sleep at nursery, 4 molars cutting etc. I think 2hrs day sleep is plenty for him though. It has been for ages so I guess that will change at some point too.
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Do you think you could ap the cn a little earlier than 4h A then let him have maybe 20 mins and would be ready for bed at 7.30?
That way you have a bit more of an evening to yourself?
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Hmm, not sure..would capping them not just give you an even earlier BT? Sounds like she's building up tiredness & if it was DS, I would be reluctant to cut out more sleep. Not sure what else to suggest though...other than the holiday...or maybe letting her fall asleep if she's dropping off early morning and see if that catches her up enough and pushes BT back enough to get a later wu??
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Sorry cross-posted again! Was talking about your capping K's naps, Lolsyb.
Yeah I think I need to experiment with cn and see how much works and at what time. LL&J - similar to what I'm aiming for. So on a 14hr day and 7.30bt, you were on a 5.30 wu too,is that right?
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Yeah, pretty much 5.30 every day, regardless of bedtime (later on 2 nap days and earlier on 1). On one nap days we did a nap around 11 / 11.30. He usually did 1.5 - 2 hrs and had to be in bed by 6.30 or we got OT wake ups. He quickly went from 4.5hrs morning A to 5.5hrs plus, but can only handle 5 - 5.5 between his nap and bed, even now he's settled on one nap. Now we do:
WU: 6- 6.15 most days. Sometimes later, especially if we get NWs
Nap: 12.15 for 2hrs - 2hrs15 usually.
BT: 7.30
He still has a long day but will only do 10.5hrs at night so it can't be helped, unless I try capping his nap. If he does a longer nap he just takes it off his night sleep
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Ok so let her have more day sleep for a few days and longer days then once wu is later cut it back down again? I did try that at the weekend but it seemed like even with a long pm nap she still wants to go to bed after 13.5 hours from wu so last A was shorter. Will try again though.
If we get 11 hours tonight we should get to 5.30 which would be a step in the right direction! Fingers crossed!!! :P
Am going to go for long am from Friday as I think I can push that 1st A a bit harder if I'm then letting her have a good sleep after rather than wake after 30 mins which is what I'd have to do to fit in long pm.
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LL&J- That's interesting, really similar to DS. He's gone from 3.5-4.5 hrs A time in a month so I'm wondering if A increase will continue at that rate until we get to 1 nap by 12mo or plateau with a real nap and a mini cn for a while.
Lolsyb - I'm no expert but it's worth a try as she sounds really tired. Hope you get an 11 hr night (at least) tonight x
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Yeah, Jack raced through A times - he was on 4hrs first A at around 7.5 months and 5.5 at 10.5 months. Now we're on set naps, but if he sleeps half an hour later in the morning he does a shorter nap, or I have to resettle after 45 minutes. I can't keep up! Not figured out yet if he's still rapidly dropping sleep needs or plateaued now he's on one nap. Too much other stuff going on at the moment!
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Thanks Scottishmummy will give it another go. Oh and I liked your suggestion of a holiday! x
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I also found with dd1, soon after she went to 1 nap, her nights were only about 11 hrs with 1.5hr nap. Sometimes it would be higher but only when I tried really hard to get her out and give her lots of exercise during the day!
I agree though that something funny starts to happen during the switch with regards to sleep needs. I think that's what makes it really hard about this transition, trying to work out how many hrs bubs needs to sleep in 24hrs; how long A bubs needs before/after nap and bedtime and how to fit everything in (including food!) and trying to work out whether the messy bits (night wakings, early wakings, short naps) are due to routine or teething (especially those nasty 1st year molars). Its all that thinking and guessing that messes with my head... now I remember why I was dreading this transition ::)
Bedtime was 5pm and she went to sleep right away. We had an OT cry out (it was either that or dd2 waking her up when she got all excited about winning the Super Mario Wii car race ;)) but I managed to resettle her very quickly with just a pat on her back and a bit of shushing and then nothing until this morning, 5:50am (phew!). I, again (of course) was up at silly o'clock (3ish) and kept looking at the monitor. I was prepared to go in and feed her back to sleep if she woke at 4am but thankfully she didn't. See what I mean.... 2.5hr nap + over 12hr night.... she would never do that on 2 naps!!! :P.
This morning she was ok but around 8.30 started whining a little. After school drop off, I took her out of the house for a walk (walking is my best friend when it comes to stretching A's) and we got home at 9.30am. I walked around the house a little more and then did our WD and into cot at 9:45am (so extra 15mins). She started playing around a bit and then finally went to sleep just before 10am. I think I may have missed her window and I was tempted to get her out and make it a 1 nap day but didn't want to push it. I wonder what today will bring.... it will either be a crappy overtired short nap or a good nap. Doing another 5pm bedtime if its a good nap or otherwise will ap catnap. Tomorrow will go back to 2 naps.
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waaaaaa :(... and the one thing I find most frustrating about this transition is when I have a plan of action, and my baby makes plans of her own!!!
1x 45min nap in the morning and I put her down at 1.30 (which is less than 3hrs A) for afternoon nap because I am hoping she will sleep 1.5hrs and I won't have to wake her up for school pick up.
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Yes! I know exactly what you mean about this transition messing with your head, and babies not cooperating with plans! The whole thing is just so unpredictable :(
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You know the saying man plans and God laughs.... that too applies to mummy's and babies!
Hope the afternoon nap went well. 12.5hr night was fab! Your lo is great at pulling these long nights for you isn't she!
We had a lie in this morning............. 5.45!!!!!!!
Seems that she will only do an 11 hour night on a 1 nap day and 10.5 on 2 nap days so can't put her to bed before 6.30 on 1 nap days..
I was still awake at 4am for a bit after hearing her shifting around and thinking shes going to wake up any minute! Was a nice surprise when i opened my eyes at 5.30 and she was still asleep!!!
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Just wanted to quickly pop in and say "YAY"!!! to the 5.45am wake up ;D
Believe it or not but the girl ended up sleeping till 3.15pm, which is when i started to make noises so that we could fetch the girls from school. She slept almost 2hrs and was pretty shattered by 6pm so i kept her up till 6.30 and she went to sleep right away. I think the one nap day would have exhausted her...will think about going straight to 11am next time rather than having too much A before bedtime, even though bedtime is early. Touch wood she's good at taking on but i know not all are and i bet if i kept doing it, day after day, it wouldn't work...
Good night ladies....all the fun talk begins when i go to bed lol. I'll see what wake up tomorrow will bring x
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I second the "yah" for the 5.45 wake up! Hope that's broken the 5am habit now.
Hope you can sleep tonight Layla, the anticipation of NWs is almost as bad as actually having to get up. I still wake around 4.30 & 5 & 5.30 waiting to see if DS will too. Sounds like J is doing well with her naps & night sleep, hope that continues.
We had another 6am wu but don't know if that is due to longer A time/later am nap/less pm sleep or just because DS has a cold and was a bit disrupted in the night. He's not well today so A time shorter & naps broken..just going to have to go with the flow until he's better.
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Layla - another good day for you. Fingers crossed she will keep tacking on until you get her to the ideal A for 1 nap.
Scottishmummy - sorry to hear lo isn't well. Its always the way isnt it that you start to make progress with sleep and something throws it off like cold/teething. Hopefully he feels better soon x
Fingers crossed the habit is broken?! Lets see what happens the next few days eh!
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Scottishmummy - hope your lo is better soon. Jack is also ill. He's been up for a total of 4.5 hours today and has napped for 4.5 so far and it's only 3 o'clock. He'd better not be up all night! I can't wake him though. He can barely manage 2.5 hours A time today :(
lolsyb - fingers crossed wake up will stay a bit later for you!
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Oh no another poorly bubs. Hope jack feels better soon and sleeps well tonight for you too. It's horrible when they're ill isn't it :(
One of the little boys at the cm wasn't well this morning and was being dosed up on calpol, hope Kitty doesn't catch it. We've had enough illness the past couple of months in our house!
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Had to put poorly bubba to bed at 6.15 tonight, I just couldn't keep him going any longer. Hoping illness gives us more than an 11hour night...
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Oh poor little thing. Hope you get a long night.
1 nap of 45 mins today at cm :o
Let her have 15 mins at 5.30 on way home and she was asleep at 7.15. It was such a long day on hardly any sleep but I couldn't put her down at 6 and go back to 5 wu.
Days like this I wished I didn't have to work as this whole sleep thing gets so frustrating when you're not in control of it and the hard work I put in on my days off gets ruined so quickly.
I know she would have a more rigid routine if in nursery but she's so good with them and Kitty loves her. I just need to accept it's going to be bad with her until she fully transitions.
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Thanks ladies :-*...another good day but followed by an early waking (I suppose I can't have it all :P). She woke around 5.15am (and so now I join you in these ew's) and I left her in the cot but by 6am, she was no longer "chatting" and wanted out!
This morning very tired little girl and I put her down at 9:20 and was going to wake her but when I tried to, she looked at me and then rolled over and back to sleep so I left the room and didn't have the heart to try again :-[. I am a terrible mod.... can't even follow my own advice :-\. Anyway, i guess my thinking is that we haven't yet had a pm nap refusal on a long am nap... so I can afford to do the other option and DH picks the girls up from school on Fridays so it doesn't matter if the nap interfered with school pick up ;).
Lolsyb - aggrrhh, how frustrating! This will be me in 2 weeks, when mum will have Jennifer. She's going to ruin everything, I can just see it and I'll have to spend 4 days fixing things. This is probably why I feel the extra pressure to move her to 1 nap so at least I can tell mum to put her down at X o'clock rather than her waking J (which she's against) ::)
Scottishmummy - When J is sick, I pretty much abandon schedules, A's, whatever and let her sleep when she wants to sleep and for however long. I hope he slept well at night and more than 11hrs...and I hope he starts to feel better soon. Lots of cuddles for poor baby :-*
LL&J - sorry to hear J is unwell.... wow, what a mammoth nap!!! he must have needed it... how did your night go?
We're also trying to work out invites for dd3 and I have no idea what time to put either. Who knows what she'll be doing in 4 weeks? We'll probably do something like 1pm and hope she has at least 2x45mins naps that day. I do remember though when Jasmine had her 1yr b'day party and slept only 45mins in the morning and nothing in the afternoon, I put her to bed at 4.30pm, for a catnap but it turned into night sleep :o. That is the earliest I have ever put any of them down and she slept till early morning, then fed her and back to sleep till 6.30am.
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Well my late mini cn and later bedtime failed miserably. Had a nw at 11.30 and up at 5 again. Have tried rocking her back to sleep but just hitting me so gave up. Less than 10hrs sleep :(
Could have just put her down at 6
2 naps today and will let her have long ones to catch up on some sleep but back to square one again :(
Oh and welcome to the ew club Layla ;)
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So many hugs ....please try not to worry yourself with things outside your control...tomorrow is a new day x
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Think I'm just tired and miserable today! Feeling sorry for myself. Haha
Have a rare girls night out tonight. Just what I fancy after a 5am start!!! I'll be wanting to go to bed an hour after going out!
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I hope you have a great night with the girls and remember, this too shall pass :-*
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Yeah, mega sleep yesterday! Five hours in the end, over two naps (didn't make that clear earlier, sorry!). And 10.5 hrs at night, though we also had a nw at 10.30ish for about an hour in the middle of that. I think he was a bit OT for bed - we tend to get those evening wake ups when his last A is too long. Tried 2 naps again today cos although he's a lot brighter he still seemed tired, but he wasn't cooperating so we're doing one early nap instead. I hope he has a nice long one....
Layla - hope the EW was a one off. How many days will your mum have Jennifer? Could she do one nap with her and two at home to catch up?
Lolsyb - hope you enjoy your night out! I had that the other day, after a 4.30 start (not from jack, I just woke and couldn't get back to sleep). I was fine when I was out, and still enjoyed it. I was tired the next day, but that's mostly cos we had a bad night following it for some reason.
Scottishmummy - hope your lo is better soon. Was your night ok?
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Oops! Double post!
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Please continue chatting here:
Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition #26