Yet another early rising 7 month old

[firemom]

I think so. I was aiming for a 12 - 12.5 hour day. I'd really like his night time sleep to be closer to 11 - 12 hours..... Maybe that'll come with age??

It's scary to think about moving to 1 nap. AHHH! (LOL) I know we're not there yet but you're right, we're going to have to figure out which nap will eventually get dropped.

Last night he woke at midnight and 1 am. He wasn't hungry, he went back to sleep very quick. Possibly he was just wanting some company??? The second time I went in there his eyes were wide open but as soon as I laid him on my shoulder he was already back to sleep.

Even with him waking last night I think we are moving his naps in the right direction. He's happier during his A times. I know it's not quite perfect yet and probably as soon as we get it figured out he'll be ready for another change. But having BW to help guide through the changes and not just wing it helps a ton!

Thank You for all you're advise. It's really made this transition a lot smoother!!!!

[firemom]

He woke 3 times last night. Bedtime wasn't good. He wasn't asleep until 8.

Yesterday went like this:

5ish Wake, nurse 1 side, back to sleep
6:50 Awake
7ish Out of bed
7:45 Nurse
9:50 Nap
10:50 Awake
11 Nurse
1:30 Solids
2:10 Nap
3:30 Awake
5:30 Catnap (15 minutes)
6 Ate 2 oz, solids
6:40 Nurse and Bottle
7:20 Laid down
8 Finally asleep, after lots of waking back up and crying

Probably UT at BT cuz of the catnap.

Then He woke at:

10:45 Crying, Held and put back to sleep
5 Rocked back to sleep in like 5 minutes
6 Nurse 1 side
7 AWAKE for the day

I mostly blame the catnap for throwing off BT, and since BT was weird, I figure that's why the night was weird.

Thoughts???

[Martini~]

Yes I would go for dropping catnap at that age with two good naps. It was very short but maybe your LO requires a decent A till BT. I would rather go for 7pm bedtime than this catnap.

Why haven't you fed at 5am? Is there any hour you would like to get him to without a feed? What is his usual BT feed time?

[firemom]

Yeah,
Hubby and I have agreed no more cat naps.

I have feed him many times at 5 am. But I thought I'd see if he go back to sleep without it. Which he did but only for another 45 minutes. He used to sleep until 7 or even later. And that was still being asleep by 7:30. I'd really love love love to get back to that. It was pretty awesome. And I got spoiled.

His usual BT feed is 7. But we've been moving that up to closer to 6:30. The hard part is many nights he just won't drink his bottle or bottle/nurse until he wants it. Trying to give it to him too early and he'll have nothing to do with it. I was just starting to think today maybe we should give him just a bottle every night to eliminate any confusion the either/ or / both might be causing? Thoughts?

[firemom]

Then on nights like tonight when he will only take the breast and not the bottle I'm glad we can still BF. Even tho I have a limited supply by evening it's still better than nothing.

I feel bad, I shoulda moved his BT up. Ugh! Mad at myself for not realizing it. I did move it up a little but not enough. He was OT and wouldn't take his bottle but he would nurse. He fell asleep pretty much on the boob. I tried to keep him awake just to finish the feed but he was out like a light.

I think since we can't use the catnap anymore we'll be starting his final feed around 6 or even 5:30 instead of 6:45 or 7.

[firemom]

I've been meaning to pop back on here to leave an update and ask a few more questions.

He's still waking up early, around 6 am, no matter what time he went to bed, no matter how much he ate the day before.

We tried cutting out solids to up his milk intake. He had dropped from 30oz/day to 20oz/day. That got him back to around 26-27 oz per day but hasn't seemed to improve his sleep. I was wondering if the drop in milk was causing the sleep issues. So now I wonder when and how to reintroduce solids?

And the last 3 nights he's been waking at night again.

Night 1: woke at least 3 times (per the Hubby, I was at work.)

6:20 Awake, Fed
7:30 Nurse
9:26 Nap
10:50 Awake
11 Nurse
12 Solids (1-2 Tbsp Pureed mac & cheese)
2:15 Nap
3:45 Awake
3:55 Nurse
6:45 Ate 6 oz
7:50 Nurse
8:00 Asleep

(Offered him as much milk as possible today, to try to avoid more night wakings from hunger.)

Night 2: woke at 3:30 am, ate 4oz, was awake for 2 hours. Still woke up at 6:20.

6:20 Nursed him back to sleep
7:50 Awake for day
8:30 Ate 4oz
11:15 Nap
1:10 Awake
1:30 Ate 8oz
5     Nap
5:45 Woke him
5:55 Nurse
7:45 6oz bottle + Nurse a little
8:30 Asleep

Over night: Awake a lot of times from 12:30 till about 2:30. At first he was fully awake and it took about 15 minutes of shh/pat to get him back to sleep. then at least 6 more times, he woke whimpering, crying. It would only take a few seconds of shh/pat for him to settle down again.

Today:

6 Awake, Nursed a little
6:20 Back to sleep
6:30 Stirring
7 Out of bed for the day
7ish Nurse
7:50 Pull himself to standing! (Very exciting!)
9:05 Nap
10:30 Awake
10:40 Nurse 15 minutes
1:30 Nap
2:50 Awake
2:55 Nurse 15 minutes
6 6oz bottle + Nurse a little
6:20 Asleep
7:50 Stirred, cried. ssh/pat back to sleep
8:40 Whimpering and crying. ssh/pat back to sleep

I was kinda thinking to just quit fighting the early rising and give him an earlier bedtime, if he'll still sleep until 6. I could live with that if he'd start sleeping longer at night again.

For awhile now we've been following the later naps (10 & 2ish) in hopes of getting him to sleep in longer but it hasn't seemed to be working.

I have more questions that i'll have to post tomorrow. I'd appreciate any advise.

[Martini~]

Definitely I would go for an earlier BT. 8pm with an 6am wake up is probably making him OT.  We talked about naps at 10 & 2 but they are probably right for a 6-7-6/7 day. If you want to move the day to 7/8-7/8 that's fine but it means all naps should be moved. So I would probably push the first nap to closer to 10:30/11:00 but still have a second nap around 3/4. Sample routine would be like below:
7:30 WU
10:30 nap
12:00 activity
3:00 nap
4:30 activity
7:30 BT with the routine starting at 7:00.

[firemom]

7/8 - 7/8 kinda day would be ideal in my mind, just like you laid out. But he seems stuck waking at 6am. So I think for now at least we've just got to put him to bed at 6 - 6:30. I would love for him to be back to a 12 hour night. Your right, The 10 hr night is just way too short.

I agree he has been OT trying to adjust to the later naps. One morning I found him wide awake at 4:45. But he hadn't made a peep. Who knows how many mornings he was really awake that early. So that explained why some days he was exhausted by 7:45am.

He was asleep by 6:20 last night and didn't wake up until 7 this morning but he woke up a lot last night so it doesn't really count as 12.5hrs sleep. closer to 10.5.

Last night he woke around 2 am, I gave him about 10 minutes to resettle but when he started crying I went in. After changing his diaper, with the room still dark I tried to rock him, and he started screaming and pushing away from me. I offered him a bottle, he drank 3 out of the 4 oz I had for him and then was totally quiet. I rocked him, watching closely for his eyes to drift shut. After 15-20 minutes his eyes were still open but I decided to lay him in his crib. He didn't make a sound and got into his sleeping position (head turned to the side). I stood with him for a few more minutes before leaving the room. Then about 20 minutes later, he was fussing again. and I went in to ssh/pat him. I had to keep doing this over and over every few minutes. Till finally around 4am he was back to sleep.

Any ideas what's causing these weird night wakings?

Also, most nights he fights his bedtime bottle? He would happily nurse but I just don't have much milk left by that time of day. On the days/nights I work my husband has taken to giving him 3 bottles a day. That has improved his milk intake on those days. But I was advised on the BF board to still nurse 4 times a day.  I usually nurse after every wake up, including his afternoon nap. Then 3 hours (ish) later we're trying to put him to bed and I wonder if he's just not hungry enough yet. I guess I wouldn't sweat him not wanting a lot at BT if he was still sleeping good. But I believe Tracy advised "tanking them up". And that used to work great for us. He'd easily guzzle 10oz before bed and he would sleep 12 or more hours. Now it's a good night if he'll eat 6oz. I've tried feeding him before his afternoon nap but he just falls asleep before he gets a good feeding. Any suggestions on when to time the afternoon and BT feed? Maybe one feeding halfway between when he wakes up and when BT would be? Like if he woke up at 3p and we're laying him down at 6/6:30 should we feed him at 4:30/5? Then maybe offer a few more ounces before bed?

We've been dealing with this issue for awhile now and now he's almost 9 months old, so I don't know if that would make you think anything different schedule wise.

What are the signs they're ready for 1 nap? I know we're not there yet but I don't want to miss the cues. I feel like I missed something a few months ago and that's why we're in this boat now.

[Martini~]

Hi Honey, so sorry for your bad night.

It's difficult to speak about A times at this age as different A suits different children but overall an average would be probably having around 13-14h of sleep with 14+ for a HSN and 13- for LSN. We were doing 14h (2h day sleep and roughly 11.5 at night as he was in bed for 12h but really sleeping probably 11.5h). We always worked on 12-12.5h day (light on at 7am, light off at 7pm but waking before 7am and going to sleep after 7pm).

I would be really surprised if he is ready for 1 nap at this age. Starting transition is a totally different story and that would mean you won't have 2x1.5h naps a day - which is totally possible at that age. Here from 8mo till around 11/12 we were doing 1.5h + 20-40min of second nap.

If you feel he is not needing two long naps or he is doing short nap after 3-3.5h I would push towards 4-4.5h A in the morning, offer a nap and squeeze a second nap somewhere in the afternoon (so letting an UT nap in the afternoon and very short A till BT - even 2.5h). I would also think of capping naps to 2:00/2:15 of total day sleep. The routine may be:
1) 7:00 WU
11:15/30 nap for 1.5h
12:45/1:00 WU from a nap
nap around 4:00 nap for 30-45min
7:00 BT

For such a routine I would propose such a feeding schedule. I get your point with milk intake. Mine was on 3 bottles per day at that age and if I gave him too much milk or too late in the day (after 2:30), his BT bottle would be affected. I guess with BF it's a different story.  so 4x a day is needed.
Sample routine:
7:30 BF
8:30 Breakfast
11:00 BF
1:00/1:30 lunch
3pm BF
5pm dinner
7/7:30 BF

Yes he is for sure OT after NW but this is a vicious cycle, if you don't push him for a better sleep/naps during day, he will still wake at night. Second thought I have is how you address NW. Isn't there any prop involved? At that age I would definitely avoid rocking. Frankly speaking at that age I was leaving him in a cot and only doing shh/pat or voice reassurance. Taking my DS from cot ended in OS him at night and going back to sleep was very difficult.

[firemom]

Thank you for your concern and advise, I'm OT. Last night he actually slept through!!! But I was awake every hour or so for no good reason. He was sound asleep but I was staring at the ceiling.

He did make a few sounds around 9p and 4a but was able to resettle himself quickly and I didn't need to go in the room.

Yesterday:
6:30 Awake
7 Nurse
8 Bfast
10:10 Nap (1h)
11:10 Awake
11:30 Nurse
2:20 3oz Bottle
2:30 Nap (fussing at 35 minutes, I ssh'd him and he went right back to sleep)* (1h20m)
3:50 Awake
4 Nurse
6:35 6oz Bottle + Nurse, then BT routine
7:05 Laid down
7:20 Asleep

This morning he was awake at 6:20.

He was a tad UT at BT, but only about 15 minutes or so. I wanted to get everything done so he could be laid down to fall asleep on his own.

What does HSN and LSN stand for?

I see that even yesterday we had a 13h day and an 11h night. I would like closer to 12/12 but 12.5/11.5 would be okay too. I would've liked to put him to bed about 6:30 but he'd only woken up from his nap around 4.

*I had taken the return of the 35minute nap as a sign that he was OT. But perhaps we should just let him wake up at that point?

As far as props, just ssh/pat or pu/pd. He doesn't use a pacifier or a lovey. (I want him to have a lovey but he hasn't attached to one yet and the one I was trying for him I found covering his face so I removed it and haven't used anything since. When he's a little older we'll try something else.)

 I start with ssh/pat but if he just cries harder I pick him up and calm him down then lay him back down and try ssh/pat again. Usually ssh/pat is all it takes. IF we're close to morning, I do change his diaper, and if he doesn't resettle quickly offer him a bottle. I don't nurse at night, I don't want that to become a habit. I can't help but rock when we sit in the chair, my legs just take over automatically, LOL.

Is there a way of breaking the OT cycle? I think that's why we've been pushing the 2- 1.5h naps. That's also why we would extend any 35minute nap. We were trying to fix the OT. Yesterday he napped for just under 2.5h and was freakishly happy all day.