What did I do Wrong???

[KiusMum]

Hi there,

So as expected, the night was pretty terrible. But the good thing that came out of it was..He spent all night in his COT!!! yayyy!!
as I was on the floor on a mattress pretty much awake most of the night... 
So here are the NWs..

10.20 pm- had a drink, then shussh and back rub ( took 10 mins)
11.06 pm - only back rub ( took 3 mins)
12.30 - 1.35 am ( back rub, drink and finally pat in bed) This is usually the one where I give in and get him in my bed. He seemed like he was dozing off
but kept waking up after just 5-7 mins off me leaving him. So had to keep going to pat him.
2.30 am - Pat in bed- 4-5 mins.
4.20 am - Patting i think 15 mins
6.25 am - Patting and singing till about 7 ( he dozed off in between but woke up again in 10 mins)
7.00 am - 7.15 am - Snuggle in bed with me , he was awake
7.15 - up for the day.

So had about 6 NWs, most of them were ok to manage , except the one at 12.30 and 6.30. I think there is definitely a routine problem + SA.
With his wake up of 7.15 am, what time should I put him down for the nap and how long should the nap be??. Aiming to just do back rub for the nap as well. His bedtime has usually been around 8.15-8.30 pm, but with all the crying and all he falls asleep after 9.

Could you please advise on nap times and bed times?? Thanku sooo v muchh

[ginger428]

Hi! Hugs Kiusmom, I know how sleep deprived you must be.

Here is a link to describe which method suits your child better.
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

Yay for cot sleeping!!! Now for progress... =)

As for naps and bedtime... since he has such broken sleep, he will be more tired than usual.  Just keep as close to 1:30 as possible, awake by 2:30/3:00, but by all means put him down at 1:00 if you see him yawning, rubbing eyes, acting silly/cranky, etc...

Bedtime- aim for 5.5 hrs after wake up from nap. I think down at 8:00 no matter what may help you, but again, you'll know how his day is going and he may need to go to bed 15-30 mins earlier.  Once you start making more progress with his sleep training, then I would stick to the times to help him regulate.

[KiusMum]

Hi ginger428,

Todays nap was from 1.40 - 3.10pm ( I know it was quite late, but he took some time to fall asleep, although didnt cry much).
At bedtime, he was in bed at 8.00 and fell asleep by 8.40 pm, so good that it was way before his usual 9 pm sleeping time.
I decided to trace steps back to keep him calm and help him fall asleep earlier, so stayed by the cot and did back rub and gentle patting.
He actually was pretty good, stood up quite a few times in between and then towards the end , I was patting his cuddly teddy bear instead of
him and he fell asleep. However the NWS have already started...

9.45 pm ( very quick cuddle and a drink, fell asleep immediately)
10.15 pm - 10.35 pm ( I had to walk a bit with him, back rub, drink and then pat in cot, he was not awake but couldnt fall asleep, if I just tried to pat the bed or put my hand on his back)..

I am already very very tired from last night and praying that it does not go as bad today..esp. cos I have to be up by 7 am...
All I hoping is for a 3 hour stretch ..NWs every hour are just terrible..

Do you think hes still OT at bedtime?? Also I wanted advice on a very light night lamp in the room...so that he can see me moving to the door eventually, what do you think? Its pitch black right now and I have to open a few shutters to let him see that I am sitting close to the cot.

Thanku so much for all your advise..

[KiusMum]

Ok had another terrible night...I dont know why hes up so frequently..is it purely because of never been able to sleep w/o props??
Hes done 3 , 5 hour stretches when he was a baby (8-10 months old..) I m so stumped and frustrated and tired..and its just day 2..

NWS last night.
9.45 pm ( very quick cuddle and a drink, fell asleep immediately)
10.15 pm - 10.35 pm ( I had to walk a bit with him, back rub, drink and then pat in cot, he was not awake but couldnt fall asleep, if I just tried to pat the bed or put my hand on his back)..
12.25 - 1.15 am (drink, pat, cuddle, etc)
The thing with this NW is he's groggy and very sleepy but keeps jolting up from his sleep about 5 - 10 mins after I have stopped patting him. Then
I start over again..this goes on for about 3- 4 times, until he finally falls asleep around 1.15/1.30am
2.25 am - I took him to bed..I had 0 energy to do anything..
5.00 am - got up to pee..so put him back in his cot.
7.00 am - He was up for the day.

Hes fallen asleep for his nap at 1.05 pm today and I will do a 2 hour nap and still aim for an earlier bedtime, to rule out any OT.
What do u think?? So nap from 1 - 3.00 pm and BT at around 7.45 pm. He should fall asleep by 8.30 pm.

[Katet]

Honestly to be waking that often & being  upset I'd be visiting a Dr to rule out fluid on the ear... although from my experience if they have fluid on the ear without it being an infection a GP will say all is well & for us it took seeing an ENT to actually discover that all the waking were from sore ears from the fluid, so not sure if you can easily rule out fluid.

[KiusMum]

Hi Katet,

thanku so much for replying...He had an ear infection and temperature which lasted almost 2 weeks, esp. with change of antibiotics and what not..but I got him checked on Tuesday evening and the doctor said "

His ears are pink and shiny now..

. She said I should give him the meds for one more day and then stop. So I stopped from Thursday. I started his sleep training Wed night onwards from BT.  I will kep your advise abt the ENT on board though...if things dont improve. During the past 2 weeks, when he was sick hes actually slept much better..cos he was sleeping with me I guess..
So today his nap was from 1.05 - 2.45 pm. And I am trying to get him to fall asleep by 8.30 pm. Hoping it goes well.. Fingers crossed.

[KiusMum]

so 3rd night and here's hows it going..

WU - 7am
Nap - 1.05-2.45pm
BT- In bed at 8.10 pm, asleep by 8.42 pm.
NW1- 9.30- 10.00 pm (This was on and off, seemed like he was asleep..but would wake up 5 mins later...)
NW2 - 10.30- 10.35pm( Just saw me, i told him to lie down, put my hand on his back and he was asleep again).

I know the next one will be at 12.30 or 12.35ishh..and pretty much the rest would follow...

I am totally confused..Should I be capping the nap or extending the nap ? Should I try earlier or later bed-time?
Still feel like theres a problem with his EASY.

[ginger428]

If his ears are cleared, I would continue with your goal of reducing the amount of support when he wakes in the MOTN. Like we mentioned before, it really could be a number of things... if you notice there are a few other moms with ~20mo with a lot of disrupted sleep... due to development, teething, etc...

I wouldn't change the routine at the moment... if he's falling asleep for nap okay around 1:00 and is only taking 30 min to fall asleep for BT, he should be ok with this.  We want to give it some time.

What makes you think there's a problem with his EASY? Is he fighting sleep? How does he wake from his nap?

Remind me how long this has been going on (before and after illness)?

[KiusMum]

What makes you think there's a problem with his EASY? Is he fighting sleep? How does he wake from his nap?

No he's not fighting sleep. If the nap is 2 hrs + hes v happy, if its atleast 1.5 hours he's a bit grumpy (sometimes whining) but allright after he has his milk. anything less than that , it takes him longer to get to normal. I think problem with EASY because he wakes up so many times at night.

[KiusMum]

At bedtime, I am patting the mattress or the rail/chair till he drifts off. He prefers me patting the mattress next to him, but I have to move away from the cot, so trying to pat the rail or the chair. He's getting better at settling like this. In a few days I think I can move the chair.
We are going on holiday from Friday to Tuesday, so that will throw things off a bit, but I am still persevering as much as I can with his bedtime routine and his settling techniques.

In the middle of the night, I settle him with a drink, cuddle , patting mattress etc with as little support as he will allow till about 1 am.
He wakes up atleast 3 times till then. After 1 am, I take him to bed, I know this is not going to help, but I need some rest atleast at night to work the next day. Once hes' in the bed next to me, he sometimes sleeps through or if he wakes up, he will just roll around and feel me I guess and go back to sleep with a bit of patting. I guess hes NWs are related to this.

I was losing patience and getting more and more frustrated, but I have made peace that its going to take a while, esp. cos I am not consistent at night.

[ginger428]

Kiusmom, I know it's so difficult to function properly with sleep deprivation, so I understand where you're coming from.  I have occasionally brought my son to bed as well and honestly, I love it so much when my son sleeps next to me.  Unfortunately, I tried co-sleeping and I can't sleep well when he's with us.

If truly his ears are clear, and he's able to sleep most of the night while next to you, the night wakes are probably due to the sleep prop. He may also be going through a bout of SA (which is strong right before 18mo and can be pronounced again around 24 mo).  Perhaps you can take a break and get rest for you and your son and enjoy this time to be with him? I say this because all your efforts at the beginning of the night are not making much lead way if you take him back to bed with you most nights.  Even with gentle sleep training, consistency is key. There's less of a chance you'll want to be up all night helping him on holiday, so perhaps wait until there are 3-4 days you are home (no work) and you can see if you'd like to focus on his independent sleep.

It's all completely up to you. Xo

[Katet]

n the middle of the night, I settle him with a drink, cuddle , patting mattress etc with as little support as he will allow till about 1 am.
He wakes up atleast 3 times till then. After 1 am, I take him to bed, I know this is not going to help, but I need some rest atleast at night to work the next day. Once hes' in the bed next to me, he sometimes sleeps through or if he wakes up, he will just roll around and feel me I guess and go back to sleep with a bit of patting. I guess hes NWs are related to this.

Sounds like SA could be a factor & with feeling sick etc he's struggling.  I found that rather than bringing DS1 into our bed, where I didn't sleep well even if he did, that we both slept A LOT better if I slept on a mattress on his floor.

I was talking to my Mum the other week & she was telling me out her friend's 18mo Great Grandchild & because at 77yo Mum is remembering the past better than ever before she was telling me about when I was around 3yo4mo & there was a big storm (thunder & lightning) & I woke up scared & went to their room (to the right of my room) & they weren't there as it was only 8pm & I sat in the hallway crying until they heard me (they were outside on the patio watching the storm. Apparently I (who'd been a perfect sleeper ) stopped being a good sleeper & it was horrid for my parents because my baby sister was 1mo at the time. In the end if I woke my parents I got to sleep on the floor of their bedroom, which I found really amusing because I remember my Mum telling me I was making a rod for my back when I slept on the floor of DS1's room. It also shocks me that my parents did that, but Mum said I'd been so scared I'd lost my parents that they felt it was the right thing to do.

I do think we can as parents get the routine "right" but the emotional factors can still be there & sometimes the routines can't help them.