18 months old 3 hr NWs

[Maria14]

The only thing I could think of with her routine is pushing the nap out even further but not sure it would help.
I have a diary of her sleep and it seems to make no difference what time her nap finishes in pm to her night sleep.

[jessmum46]

More hugs, I'll see if I can get any more eyes on this for you x

[creations]

Many hugs. I just skim read through your thread. I really feel for you that these NWs have been going on so long and you are obviously concerned about your DD.
I don't have a huge amount to say to help really. Only that Tracy did say it is normal for a LO to wake in the night (and that NWs can be long) and so long as she is not calling for you the best thing to do is to just let her be. I know others have advised this and you've said you cannot settle yourself when yo know she is awake, I totally understand that.

I think once you have looked at all the possibilities (which it seems you have) then there really isn't much else you can do other than accept she is resting (if not sleeping) and you have done your best for her.  We can only set the scene for sleep, we cannot make it happen.

My DS also never slept 12hrs as a baby, 10.5 to 11 was his max, that's just him. We had some longer nights when he dropped to 1 nap but it didn't last all that long and eventually in the few months running up to dropping the nap all together his nights were down to 9hrs.  I am very happy to say he now sleeps (no nap) a full 12 hrs at night   I realise nap drop prob seems a long way off for you.

WRT as you have tried so many things already. I would regulate morning WU (whatever time you wake her on your work days), push the set nap later and set BT a bit later, more like 8pm.  Don't aim for a night longer than she is capable of.  And really really do your best to leave her be when she NWs. If she can in any way sense that you are awake your wakefulness may actually be keeping her awake - in the same way that her wakefulness is keeping you awake.

I think you already mentioned language explosions, 18 months is a real time for language development and caused a lot of sleeplessness here, as have every other development.

hugs, I hope you get some rest for yourself x

[Maria14]

Thank you for your replies.
I agree about being awake keeping each other awake.
I do tend to sort of do walk in walk out,check on her but then leave the room.

I am confused what to do with her routine now. Only this evening I ve decided that may be she does need earlier bed time,though she copes ok in the evenings.
But you may be right saying she needs later bed time.

I need to write things down now as a plan as I can't think straight any more.
I don't think that 4 hr wakening is normal or extreme of normal.
She goes to sleep ok but can't settle at night. It's contradicting each other but I do believe its not norm to be awake that long. Wouldn't she crash out say every other night,she can go a stretch of 4 nights with long NWs and not even have longer naps.
Today for the first time she had dark circles under her eyes and I felt very sad.
Thank you ladies for your support.
Maria

[ZacsMumme]

More hugs
Im, sorry I haven't been back, I've seen you have had heaps of support. Things have been busy here.

Given you have tried so many things with no avail, and the dr can't see anything I think it's worth considering eliminating something like dairy to rule out a food intolerance. Food intolerances often show themselves at night, pain meds don't always help. They would certainly keep one from settling well into a good sleep.

I know it's a bit of a pain, but given things are so though it could be worth it. You would know in a few weeks.

[Maria14]

Reluctant really,gp said not to as absolutely no other symptoms present.
She is such a picky eater too have no idea what we will do without yogurt and the other stuff that has hidden diary. I did think about it a while back that's why we went to see the gp as I didnt want to attempt it on my own without dietician advice etc.and he said he didn't think it was a good idea.
But of course it's worth considering.

[ZacsMumme]

Lots of LOs don't show many other symptoms with intolerances other than Irritable bowel like symptoms (ie gut disturbance) and these tend to be at night. I think if nothing else is working then really it's your last hope to rule out something possibly medical.

Hugs

[Maria14]

Is there any info on here about how to eliminate diary?..
It's confusing because DD obviously hasn't got an allergy as such but if course could be intolerant of dairy giving her tummy symptoms.
Does that mean I give her lactose free dairy products? Or substitute dairy with soy based products?
And am I right in thinking that if she has bread or pancakes etc she should be ok as the amounts of dairy in them are small.is it just pure milk products we need to eliminate?

[ZacsMumme]

Lactose intolerance and milk protien intolerance/allergy are different. Lactose intolerances are much less common and symptoms more specific I think so I'd try DF first and just see if after 2 weeks if things improve.

You really do need to sub out all dairy. You can then reintroduce small amounts or different types and see how she goes if for example you find she is way better of it all. Some people are fine with cheese and yogurt but not milk butter or things like whey.

If you swap put the milks for a milk alternative - nut based, soy, coconut, oat or rice. The yogurt for soy or soe thing else ie custard made with milk alt and then use dairy free marj you probably have most of it covered.

There is hidden dairy in breads (not all), things like chocolate (not dark) and brought biscuits and snacks but there are lots of alternatives out there too.

I know it's a big maybe, but if you have tried everything else I do think it's worth eliminating or validating if it could be part of the problem x