18 months old 3 hr NWs

[Maria14]

I ve posted here before about my DD.
I am writing again out of desperation.

DD is 18 months old.
She is an independent sleeper with no health issues as far as I am aware.
She now sleeps in her cot without rails( small foam bumper instead under the sheet to prevent her falling out). She generally goes down at bed time without trouble,climbs into bed and soothes herself to sleep.

She is cutting three molars at once- they all are partially out but don't bother her during the day.
She wakes up around 12-1 am on most nights now.this started when she was 10 months long before molars were coming. The situation is getting worse now.

She wakes up and I can hear her fuss. She doesn't cry. She fusses and rolls in her bed and breathes faster than usual almost panting (nothing dramatic or that I am concerned about), as if she is having some discomfort. Occasionally she will whine in frustration that she can't sleep. she wants to go back to sleep,these NWs are not because she wants to get up and play.

I ve tried giving her nurofen- it does not help,not any more at least.
I typically go in to her and lay on the bed with her- there's a bid bed in her room too, hoping it will speed up her going back to sleep- it doesn't. She doesn't play or find my presence stimulating and just rolls and puffs as she would if I left her alone- I ve tried doing that too.

It takes her 3 hrs to go back to sleep- and this is now happening most nights than not. It's never quicker than 2 hrs and sometimes is as long as 4 hrs.

I work part time and in a highly demanding job.
The sleep deprivation is affecting my whole life and is breaking my family apart now.

I do not understand what is keeping her awake.
She has no dry skin or gas that's bothering her.

Her routine is typically on a good day and night

WU 6.30
Nap 11.30-12 ( 1 hr 20 min, she self regulates it quite well)
BT 19.30 -20.00 (asleep) she prefers longer pm A time.

She is happy when she had a good night but cranky after a bad one, occasionally she will sleep 2-2.5 hrs at nap after being awake at night.
If she is up in the night she can then sleep in as late as 8 am.

She is a spirited baby/ toddler and short napped until 4 months of age, has been able to STTN since the she of 6 months.

Can anyone think as to what's keeping her awake?
On nights when she is awake should I still wake her at 7 am ( I do that on work days and she is not happy obviously) or let her sleep?..
What could be bothering her? Food allergy? ( she has no other symptoms)
Developmental? It's been going on too long..
I am at the end of my tether and cannot be a good mother and wife any more because I am so sleep deprived..

[ZacsMumme]

So many hugs. That sounds tough hon
Personally I would pay your dr/pead a visit to have her checked out. If it's been going on a long time, and it's no a prop or routine issue then it icily be something to do with her health. Some kids have large adenoids, or tonsils, ear issues that can affect sleep etc.

Has anything else changed at all since the NW began? Introduction of any particular food groups ie wheat/gluten

[Maria14]

I am beginning to think that I need to rule out smth medical too
It all started around 10 months with occasional nights like this but its much more frequent now.
DD would have had all the foods she is having now before 10 months but if course intolerance can develop later so definitely need to exclude this.
She does of course have good nights but to me it is a puzzle as to why she needs am average of three hrs to go back to sleep in the night when naps and bed time are ok..

[ZacsMumme]

Does she toot or burp or complain about tummy pain/wind/heartburn/gas at all during these NW?
You could try eliminating something like gluten but at this age I think a dr visit is a good place to start to discuss all this. You don't want to exclude at this age unless you have to yk?
Lots of hugs

[Maria14]

No,not noticed any gas problems.i often lay next to her so would have noticed.
She doesn't seem to be in pain but some sort of mild discomfort that makes her fuss but not cry.
Going to talk to HV tomorrow,wouldn't attemp any diet without professional advice..
I never thought sleep could be worse than newborn stage...

[ZacsMumme]

I hope you get some help from the HV, if you don't feel happy with the discussion I'd still pay your dr a visit to discuss your concerns.

18 mths is a tough age for sleep. The regression is well known to be a biggie could these NW be teething at all?

[Maria14]

I though for a while it was due to teething but pain meds stopped helping DD go back to sleep and she still fusses for 3 hrs.three molars are coming out at the same time currently.
We were dismissed by HV yesterday,as soon as I said its not behavioural she said we should go and see GP as she can't provide medical advice- fair enough.
Will try to get to the doctor soon.
I definitely think DD is very susceptible to developmental sleep regression,it just feels like its all the time!

[Maria14]

So we went to see the GP but as I expected he said that as DD is thriving and has no other symptoms this is to do with 'sleep hygiene'...
I ve kept a diary and I do think that the main culprit is OT.
DD stopped napping at only 2 weeks of age and was constantly overstimulated by anything.
I loo at small babies on the streets now and they happily look at the toys attached to their buggies whilst lying there quietly.DD was never like that- she either slept or yelled until she went in the pushchair.
She is a spirited child and is very probe to OT, I ve always known that.
We were doing well the last few days until she had a mega nap the other day (2 hr 40 min,why didnt I wake her up earlier?..) and woke up at 5.30 the following am..we then went to stay with family ( I knew this would happen and she would get overexcited..) and she ended up having a 14 hr day with 40 min nap.Didnt have a meltdown but took forever to fall asleep as was OT.
Then followed by 4 hr NW culminating in yell fest at 5am when she freaked out at not being able to go back to sleep.
I am at my wits end with her and don't know what to do.
She has never slept for 12 hrs at night- max 11. Early bed time risks her getting up very early the next day and the next day being too long.
How do I balance it all out?
I don't know what to do anymore.

[AMJ]

Hi there. Just wanted to add my support. Sorry I can't help much because we are in a very similar situation. DD is 16m and  is having up to 2hrs of NW more frequently now and they are just like you are describing. She is very sensitive to OT and overstimulation. Just yesterday we were at the playground and older kids were playing there and were REALLy noisy and I could just see how she was looking at them all concentrated and then started to rub her ear and I knew this was too much for her so we left.

We've tried everything from Folowing A to set naps but she always seems OT even with a good nap.

Just wanted to say you are not alone! I really hope it gets better for you! Hugs

[Maria14]

Thank you for your post!
It does feel in the middle of the night like I am the only one in the whole world dealing with these NWs.
It's reassuring to know we are not alone in this not that it makes it any easier for anyone ...
DD is also constantly concentrating on things,whether she is trying to come up with a new little game for herself or learning new words or watching older kids.
I get constant comments from well meaning relatives that she doesn't sleep because she is too bright,hehe not that it helps!
For instance today in the car she was so tired after the disturbed night I really thought she would sleep especially that we were cruising on the motorway- perfect soothing conditions, but no, 30 min and that was it,once her eyes are open there is no going back to sleep!
What do you do when your DD has these wakenings?do you go to her?i am being told to just shut the door and sleep through it but I really cannot do this- if she is awake and I hear her I can't sleep

[AMJ]

lol DD is very similar, after a whole day of flying and a 30m nap we had to drive for 2hrs to our final destination-and she wouldn't even close her eyes 

if she doesn't cry but just lays and even when she lets out a cry/whine because she can't fall asleep(she clearly looks like she is trying) i don't go in because my presence would make it worse, but if she is crying then i go in and give meds, rub her head for a bit and leave. But most of the time she doesn't cry that's why i'm always confused why this is happening but i do think most likely it's OT. My husband tells me to just sleep but i also can't because i feel like i need to know how long she stayed up for.

[Maria14]

Same here,I also need to know how long DD is up
Why do they do that?when is this OT business is going to ease off on them?
It's so frustrating,last couple of months I have has less sleep than when she was newborn..
Things don't get easier do they?

[AMJ]

I don't know. I used to hope that after she was 1 things will get better but nope, still can't figure it out. I just don't get it. Why don't they just sleep longer when they are OT? Woundn't if just make more sense?
I just told my husband yesterday that I think this is going to be my life forever! It's depressing actually

[jessmum46]

Hugs, it sounds absolutely draining

For us, long NWs have either been UT, teeth, or extreme OT.  I know you posted your "good" day and night routine above but I wonder if you could post a few days of what's actually happening?  The routine you posted would definitely have made my fairly LSN DD overtired at that age, but it's hard to tell if sometimes she sleeps in and other times she has longer naps.  I wonder if you could be flicking from UT to OT and back again?  Worth bearing in mind that spirited babies often, although not always, have lower sleep needs than other children.  I know of at least one Mum here whose LO was doing a 45 min nap at 18 months with a 12h night.  When did your LO do the 3-2 and 2-1? 

[Maria14]

I actually think DD isn't that lsn.she just can't sleep!

She did 3-2 at around 9 months- was solidly on 2 naps and 2-1 at 12-15 months.
The reason the 3-2 was late is because she couldn't take a long nap.the 2 hr nap is only now really!

I know that she is most likely stuck in UT/OT but can't get her out of it
Her typical night is 10-10.5 hrs long so day ends up being 14 hrs sometimes with a 2 hr nap which is fine with me.
If I do EBT it backfires with EW.
This is how she went from 8 pm bedtime ( did that when the clocks changed in march to get her to WU later) slowly back to 7 pm.

So last few days the routine has been:

WU 05:30
Nap 12.30-14.00
BT asleep 20.30 (after massive tantrum)- would have been earlier but I missed the moment
 

WU 07.30
Nap 12.45-14.10
BT asleep 20.00 after tantrum again

WU 06:20
Nap 12.50-14.50
BT 19.50

WU 06.30
Nap 12.25-14.25
BT 19.45 fussy night but no NWs

WU 07.00
Nap 11-13.40 I so should have capped it
BT 19.30

Then WU at 05:30 and from here gone into OT again as v long day
That run was recently with several good nights in a row.things have gone wobbly again as previous two days we were staying at granny's and she short napped two days in a row as was too excited