19mo won't sleep, wants mummy- help!

[KathrynK]

hi
I think I know what you're all going to say, but advice needed please!
Last night at bedtime and today at naptime, Sophie has cried and cried for "mummeeee" every time I put her down. Her mantra cry is "mummy" anyway, but she sort of moans it over and over (that's really hard to ignore, btw). But this is different, she is getting herself really upset.
Last night she had an early night due to a crap nap at lunchtime (we were travelling in the car) but because she refused to settle she got o/t and cried really hard everytime I tried to put her down. After 45 mins I caved and sent dh in and she was asleep within 5 mins.
Today at naptime all was fine and normal until I put her in the cot and then she went nuts again. I spent another 45 mins trying to settle her, she was fine everytime I picked her up (at one point she fell asleep on me- my first ever bit of AP!) but cried when I put her down. Eventually I think she was so knackered she just conked out (I was with her the whole time).
Some history- she has always been a fantastic sleeper, falling asleep independently from birth, sleeping 12hours through the night (don't hate me here) from 9 weeks and I can practically count her NW in the last 6 months on my fingers. She loves her sleep and loves her bed (just like mummy  )
She has only recently started getting really mobile- she walked independently about 2 months ago, she has learnt to sit herself up from laying about 4 weeks ago, has started to roll over about a month ago, is trying desperately to pull herself up to standing, and is trying to crawl but keeps belly flopping. Every time I lay her down she rolls over and sits herself up and I think it's this new found mobility that's doing it. Also she is working on bottom eye teeth and that might be the reason for the clinginess. But she's her normal happy self in the day which is why I am puzzled.
any words of wisdom? Is this just a phase I need to ride out? aaaargh

[A_C]

BIG HUGS to you Kathryn!

As you know I have had my own problems with Sophia as well..so I don't much in way of advice but would like to flag this post to see what responses you get as well.

Ana 

[KathrynK]

thanks Ana
I wonder if with both of them it's just the teeth?
dh thinks she did it last night because she was overtired, and she did it today because she knew I would go back in, because I did last night, kwim? But I think there's something else behind it, it's so unlike her.
hugs back to you, hang on in there! x

[Layla]

Oh Kathryn, its so hard not to go in with the "mummy" mantra cry . If you suspect teeth, have you thought about some meds before nap time & bedtime?

Do you think she might be going through some SA as well?

[KathrynK]

Hi Layla
d'you know, it took me ages to work out that her moaning "mummy" was her new mantra and not her actually needing me. It was after a day we were travelling at nap time and she was falling asleep in the car (it's 2 hrs to my mum's house- we travel at nap time, she sleeps all the way  ) and just as she was going off she started moaning "mummee" with her eyes shut and thumb halfway in! That's when I realised! It's awful to listen to though. Makes me feel real cruel for ignoring her 

I thought I might give her some Calpol before her bath tonight to see if that makes a difference. dh & I also discussed him putting her to bed to see if she'll settle better for him. He puts her to bed usually one night a week when I'm away with work, if we're both at home I tend to do it.
Not sure about SA- we had a major bout of it between 11mo and 13mo which was hell during the days, although it never ever affected her going to sleep- this is why I don't think it's really SA, I'm more inclined to blame it on the teeth.
I can hear her now, she's slept for 2hr15min and has woken happy so after a good nights sleep and a good nap she's definitely not o/t any more.
hmm, keep your fingers crossed for later

[A_C]

fingers and toes crossed over here! 

[Layla]

Fingers crossed xxx!
 

[A_C]

I think its teeth, or SA, or teeth and SA lol

Kaleb gets a bit more clingy and some SA when he teethes. Acts like Sophie is and to be honest I just have to tell him its bedtime, kiss and leave and let him work it out. If not i would be there for weeks. 

He will say mummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. HUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD (hug).. etc etc but the cry is more like a can i make her come if i try bad enough lol, then I REALLY need you.  If it goes on and on I will go in and tell him again go to sleep. 

OMG Stacy Sophia does exactly the same thing with me when I put her down she says: "Big hug from Mama!" and I go and give her one and as I turn away she asks again and if I ignore it she cries in such a way that it just breaks my heart.  I am just a sucker sometimes and I go back again. 

Kathryn and I seem to be going through exactly the same thing with our DDs...and I was wondering if it is also an age issue?  These NWs seem to be most prevalent at this age even if they have always slept through the night in the past? On my previous post (regarding this same issue) Kathryn also mentioned that it could be attributed to the eye teeth coming out. I can't teel for sure but it seems like she is teething as well and the only teeth left (apartfrom the 2 yr. old molars) are the eye teeth.  Kathryn...I'm sorry i don't mean to hijack your thread...just trying to figure this out (as I'm at my wits end) 

TIA

[*Natasha*]

Kathryn my perfect independent sleeper went through SA at the same age it was worse with DH as she adores him and he puts her to bed 99% of the time. It was worse at bedtime taking up to1hr to get her to go to sleep we used gradual withdrawl as WI/WO just made her more upset. Just persist with it it took us nearly a month before we could start putting her down and walking out straight away. It got worse before it got better but everyday after that the time we had to stay with her got shorter. Good Luck

[A_C]

Great point and so true, Stacy!  Will try to be more firm this time around. 


Kathryn...how did it go with Sophie?  Any NW at all?

[KathrynK]

thanks everyone for your support.
Last night was ok at first, I thought it might have blown over. I bought her a new grobag yesterday (her other one was admittedly too small now) because she kept refusing to go in it and I thought that might be part of the problem. Anyway she went in it just fine, said "night night mummy, night night teddy, night night Sophie" when I left the room and I thought it would be ok, but then she moaned "mummeeeee" for about 15-20 minutes, then dh went in and she was sitting up, he told her it was time for sleep and laid her back down and that was it! gone out like a light.
I think tonight I need to stop being a chicken and try to settle her myself, Stacy you are so right!
I also think there is definitely some SA going on as this morning she has been clingy to me which is unusual. Got to be sparked off by the teeth, I can see the gums getting whiter by the day as the teeth make their way up.

Acts like Sophie is and to be honest I just have to tell him its bedtime, kiss and leave and let him work it out. If not i would be there for weeks.

see, this is where I get in a muddle and Stacy you make me feel so much better now. Sophie is a fiercely independent sleeper and I know that if I were to start doing wi/wo or gradual withdrawal I would just make it worse, there is no way at all she would settle if I was there. THe best thing for her is just to leave her to settle herself.
But where do you draw the line with leaving them to settle and bordering on cio? I know her sleep habits so well but this situation is so unusual for us it's got me feeling really inadequate as I don't know what to do for the best. 
I will try your tips today Stacy and see what happens. Ana, how's it going?
thanks again everyone 

[A_C]

I will try your tips today Stacy and see what happens. Ana, how's it going?
thanks again everyone 

Kathryn glad that afer 15- 20 minutes of crying for you, ultimately Sophie went down for solid sleep. 

Sophia doesn't give me much trouble now going down...she asks for hugs everytime I walk away: "Big hugs a Mama?"....per Stacy's recomendation, I gave here about 2 big hugs then I walk away and she was fine with that even if she whined for more as I shut the door.  I thought all was good but then at around 2:00 a.m. she woke up crying for me...I listened for a while because she usually goes back down within a minute or so...but this time her crying (though intremittent) did not stop...I walked in and there she was standing on her crib.  So I carried her for a while and soothed her back down...this took about 30 minutes before she went to sleep.  She cried a bit after I left the room but eventually settled herself down as she was sooo sleepy. 
Does this happen to Sophie by chance? Has she been having night wakings as well? I am wondering if this has to do with a combination of SA and the eye teeth? I gave been giving her some children's Motrin every night before bed here lately but I can't tell for sure if her eye teeth are coming out (though there are many times where she just teeths so badly). I know Sophie has been teething as well...Do these partic. teeth take a while to break through?

[KathrynK]

I had a NW Saturday night- I went in and picked her up and she calmed straight away, put her down and she went back to sleep no problems. Last night didn't hear a peep all night long. Will probably have a terrible night now I've said that!
Her top eye teeth popped through really fast but these bottom ones seem to be taking ages.
Today's nap was awful too- left the room and she was ok but then within a minute had started to moan and it went on and on and on- went back in and spent about 20 mins trying to settle her. She's definitely got SA going on. She's also being a bit cunning with it- she asked for some milk, which she never has during the day. I was at the point where I'd try anything so I said "you lay in your cot and mummy get you some", she was completely happy in her cot then when I came back with the milk she didn't want it at all; I think it was all a ploy to delay things. Eventually I said "mummy will stay here while you go to sleep" as I put her in the cot and she was calm immediately- I sat on the floor facing away from her and counted the ticks of the clock- within 4 mins she was sound asleep, and I left the room after another 2.
We've been out all afternoon to a kids farm seeing the animals and having lots of fresh air and exercise so am hoping she'll be too tired at bedtime to put up much of a fight! Fingers crossed again xx

[*Natasha*]

Good luck Kathryn

[A_C]

Her top eye teeth popped through really fast but these bottom ones seem to be taking ages.
Today's nap was awful too- left the room and she was ok but then within a minute had started to moan and it went on and on and on- went back in and spent about 20 mins trying to settle her. She's definitely got SA going on.

Glad that the top already came out...still waiting over here for any of them to come out. Have you been giving her any medicine at night or do you pretty much gage?  Sorry about the difficulty you had with nap time.  I think Sophia has SA as well...it's just manifests in a different manner than in the past.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and Sophie, Kathryn!