Overtired 19month old--what the heck due you do to fix it?

[debo620]

so Noah is overtired rigth now, between NW and EW over the last , as well as being on vacation, he has been averaging 10hrs or so at night---naps have been off and on ad he is taking a LONG time to settle to sleep.

so yesterday we had a NW and thus a late start to the day, 7:15 am  (usually 6:30)

I thought ok , hes OT so early nap---so I tried 12pm, but he didn't fall asleep after a lot of complaining until 12:45, and then woke at 2:20, so I thought ok----early bedtime so I tried 6:30 but he didn't fall asleep til 7:30 and then woke at 5:40am this morning.---stayed in his crib til 7am talking away.

so I thought I'd try a very short 10min am nap at 9:45 or so but he refused, he's now just playing, and I'm putting him down at 11:15 or so and seeing what happens.

this OT is causing the usual runaway emotions and toddler tantrums, and I know the less and less sleep he gets, the worse it will be.
please help!

[KathrynK]

hey Deb
just wanted to send you a big HUG from me. We're having a weird week with sleep too.
Does he fall asleep easily in the car? Perhaps you could sneak in a short am nap by taking him for a ride out.
hope it gets better soon
xxxx 

[momofclaire]

Hi Deb,
Can you post Noah's routine? 

[debo620]

well his typical day was:

wake 6:30
nap 12-2 or 2:15
bed 7 or therabouts-asleep by 7:15 or 7:30

I try to sort of have 11hrs at night and 2hrs of naps, I will usually wake after 2.25hrs from naps if he is still sleeping. Noah has always been an early riser, so I do try and bring his nap and bedtime forward a bit if he has woken early. he has also always had WAY less sleep then most, and I would think not sleeping more then 13hrs in a 24hr peiod from the age of 10-11months onward.

while we were on vacation, there was a 1hr time difference and thus if he had a bad night or slightly shorter nap, then bedtime needed to be more like 5:30 (he was waking at 5-5:30) , this made it difficult. also he was sleeping in a play pen and thus not sleeping as well as at home. so we did have NW then aswell, plus  days of travel with less naps aswell.

over the last month, we have periodically had completley nomral days but then 2hr play sessions in the middle of the night with then later wakes and later/shorter naps and the routine is completely out the window.


thanks for your help. I know he is OT from the week away and just less sleep overall. just wondering how to fix it? earlier nap less then 5.5hrs in the am usually results in a shorter nap. so I guess my only option is to stick with an earlier bedtime.

[thedavies]

Hi if you have the time    to spare, I have recently posted a long and involved thread over a v  similar situation with our 20 mth DD - and we've been making good progress with much earlier beds. The thread is called 20 mths sleep hell parents desperate, hope something there might help

[andibig]

Debs
Hmmm i think the early bedtime is the only way to go.I do remember Sasha going through a funny period of sleep at that age.being awake for an hr or so at night .i know they hit a big blip of SA at 18 mths but don't think thats happening here (not being very helpful here am I?)
I do think its a phase they go through at this age as there was a sticky that natasha started as a few of us were having probs
Andrea

[debo620]

thanks guys, so how much earlier to bed should I being doing when trying to combat this OT?

here was today with the early wake:
woke 5:40am or so, in crib til 7am
in crib for 11:20---talked a bit and then slept 11:35-1:45, woke on his own,
 is bed at 6:30 okay? or should it be earlier?

he quite often takes 30 or so min to fall asleep at night.

[momofclaire]

I think a 6:30 bedtime is fine but maybe do a long windown so that he is more relaxed and thus falls asleep faster.  Sometimes when I know Claire is going to have to have an earlier bedtime I take her out to the park in the afternoon for some serious play.  45 minutes of running around with mama usually wears her out enough to settle a bit better for bed.

[debo620]

in crib for 6:30, asleep at 7:10 fingers crossed

[thedavies]

We've been finding we needed to build 40 mins into even an early bedtime so if we wanted to get her asleep by 6 we would start at 5...yes, we felt that was ridiculously early too but it has really worked, and our situation has been v similar to yours, so I would say go as early as you can, earlier than you think it needs be - its come together for us really quick once we did that

[brightside]

I think the nap was quite a good one and although he is tired from the previous night I have found that DS doesn't seem to realise that and will only go to sleep after the usual A time. eg, if he has a 2 hour nap then I have no chance of him going to sleep before 5-5.5 hours A time even if he didn't sleep well the night before-kwim? So based on him waking at 1.45 after a 2h10 min nap I would say you would be lucky to get asleep by 6.45-probably nearer to 7. I have found that if I put him down too early, he just tosses and turns for ages and ends up going to sleep later because he is getting frustrated.

Also, I was told and have found it to be true that once they are used to having one nap, you can't really go back to having 2 so I wouldn't bother trying for a short am nap. I used to do it but it actually messed him up more. He would sometimes get tired around 9am if he woke early but I was better to distract him and go for an earlier lunch time nap around 11.30.

Hope I am making sense. 

[debo620]

brightside, I do know what you mean and I often think it is the same for Noah, but that being said---I must be doing something wrong! He had a hard time going to sleep last night at bedtime and I can only think that is from too long of A time when already having accumalated OT.
I think will need longer windown and just maybe go for 4.5hrs after nap so that he is asleep by te 5hr mark hopefully.

We had an AWFUL night. 

he was awake from 1am -4am  crying, settling and then crying again which is very typical of his OT. he finally went back to sleep with me in the room saying "mommy's here, go back to sleep Noah" every time he cried. I should of just done that in the first place. I will have to sacrifice some independent sleep in the name of he needs to go back to sleep a bit quicker then 3hrs later. I'm not doing much, basically I stood at his crib for 5min and then moved to his door for another 15min or so and he was finally back to sleep.
he then woke for the day at 6:30am

so a whole whopping 8 and 1/2 hrs of sleep. that should be very helpful in dealing with his OT!

so I honeslty have no idea what to do for a nap today! do I put him down at 11 or 11:30 and let him sleep as long as he wants rather then waking after 2.25hrs?

and then attempt early bed again?

did I mention we are going to Winnipeg tommorow?

[nursekat]

I will have to sacrifice some independent sleep in the name of he needs to go back to sleep a bit quicker then 3hrs later.

I'm not always of the popular opinion, but this is the way I go if dealing with OT - I'd rather get her sleep back on track than worry about independent sleeping, kwim?  And I've found that since she is good at independent sleep when not OT that she bounces back relatively well after the OT is corrected.  And the fact that just you being there in the room and talking to him is GREAT!  When dd is OT I have to physically hold her (hugging and loving and cooing and such) with me in bed until she passes out and then slowly transfer her to her crib...way harder than talking to her!  I'm slightly jealous.    But just wanted to chime in and say I'm a big fan of "AP-ing" to correct the OT and then get back on track from there...especially if you are going on another trip, you crazy lady, you! 

[andibig]

accidental parenting-the way i see it you do what you have to do sometimes to get them to sleep.doesn't make any difference how old they are.
plus since Noah was an independent sleeper b4 then it shouldn't take to long to get him back on track again.
good luck deb and keep us posted

[debo620]

well he napped 11:15-1:30 :
so I am planning for in bed for 6pm

we will probably have NW tonight, so I know now that I will deal with that a bit quicker and hopefully he will get a bit more sleep overall.

I am hopeing the drive to winnipeg won't be too bad, we are actually driving only for about 3-5hrs a day, and planning it around his naps and nights at the hotel.  I would much rather not be going at all.
my dh and family thinks though that I am too rigid and Noah needs to enjoy himself and sleep other places. My DH actually told me last night that it was my falut that Noah was awake for so long as I am the one who was so stuck on a rouitne and that him being off of it at all is what messed him up. this is probably a bit true----Noah is such a touchy sleeper and spirited kid. but thats just him and I try my best to repsect it---but I'm the one who always looks like the BAD GUY.