seriously frustrated with GW

[holdenlouis]

I seriously need help! This has been going on for over a month now. Holden has been waking every night and we have been doing the GW because he would get hysterical if I left the room. Tried wi/wo but he gets even more hysterical. I have to stand there and keep my hand on him to fall asleep. Some nights it seems like it takes him forever to get back to sleep. This interrupted sleep is starting to get to all of us. Then this messes our routine up with either early wake time or sleeping in. I tried today to just PD and I couldn't put up with the screaming and crying so I put my hand on his back and every time I moved it away he would cry. I think I am a prop. We did GW and PD when he was younger and it was easier he was smaller. He's quite big now and very strong he holds on to the crib bars. I don't want to lose my patience but they are wearing very thin these days. I am pretty sure it is not teeth and no illness. But this has been going on for a while anyway. He is still clingy so I know still some SA going on. What should I do? I go to him the minute he starts to cry. If I wait he won't go back to sleep fast.

[yaya]

oh Yikes we went through this and it really does suck so HUGE hugs to you....
advice i can offer...yes u are a prop BUT he can do without you, you just need to brave it knowing it'll be harsh for a few nights till it gets sorted. Here's what i would do...
Go in, try as best you can to calm with words but not OTT (IYKWIM?) if he does calm then hand on back and remove, cry, hand on back, remove etclike with pu/Pd until he caves. HE WILL in the end...thing is with SA it's a tough one, do u REALLY want to stress them and you out or are you prepared to 'ride it out' till he doesnt wake in the night? if he goes to sleep by hinmself at night then he's CAN do it at night too (if he doesnt ...work on that) you just have to be strict and make him understand that u WILL NOT keep hand on back (unless like i said u are prepared to 'ride it out ' till outgrows the waking, which i have attempted too...
sorry not sure if this is any help to you

[Mom2katiebug]

My DD got really clingy after vacation.  This worked for her and maybe something like this might work for you.  When she started crying for us I would comfort her until she calmed down using as little as possible, tyring to keep it in the crib if possible.  But I'd talk to her.  If I was patting, I'd tell her that I'm going to move my hand and then keep talking as I removed it.  Then I'd pull up the crib bar, then I told her I was going to wait outside her room, but if she needed anything to let me know.  I went out of the room and she called to me a couple of times.  Each time I got her resettled and repeated the outside the room bit again and it worked well.  It only took a couple of nights to get back to normal.

A couple of moms on my birth thread also had success leaving the door open for their LOs.

Good luck.  I can relate to broken sleep, but our issue is illness derived.  I'm a complete zombie today!

[MDHmommy]

We went through something very similar to this after our vacation - it went on for us for almost a month.

I solved it by discussing the situation with DS. Getting ready for bed I'd say - I'm going to put you to bed tonight and I'll sing 3 songs and rub your back but then I'm going to leave. If you really need me, I'll come back, but I'm not going to stay (etc.) Then I would do it.

Essentially then I did Wi/Wo but on longer time intervals - 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes. I found that if I did it quickly like is recommended in the book, he'd get NUTS and really upset. If I waited longer, it worked better.

It took 3 nights to get him back on track after the month of mess. That was in July. He's not woken in the night ever since.  Of course now that I say that, he'll start again

HTH - keep us posted!

Kate

[debo620]

HoldenLouis, do you think he is overtired right now? It seems as though NW are very LONG(2hrs) and he needs a lot of help from me if he is overtired. just wondering if maybe aim to have him asleep 12hrs after he wakes in the am and then he may get more sleep overall with the NW. is the nap a decent length?

[holdenlouis]

This is awful he won't sleep without my hand on him. DH is in there now at 9:30 after going to bed at 8. Then he was so hysterical DH lets him up and they are watching tv in the living room. I am so angry with him for doing that. I started to write this last night but couldn't finish. He was throwing a temper tantrum in his crib and banged his head on the side of the crib. So he tried to put him back to bed and of course he wouldn't have it. So I went in there and tried to PD and I have never seen him like that. Totally out of control. Screaming, crying, thrashing around and I was a little rough putting him back down so I called DH back in and that didn't help at all. So after I calmed down I went back in and sat in the rocker with him. And what do ya know he finally went to sleep. I laid him back down and took my t-shirt off and left it with him. He slept till 7:30 am. But he didn't fall asleep till 10:30. 

Deb yes the naps are 1.5 -2 hrs. It seems if I put him down before 8 it takes longer to settle. But tonight it is early because he is missing 3 hrs of sleep.
Kate I try to talk to him but it doesn't seem to comfort him any.
I am ready to switch gears here but I am so tired and frustrated that my patience are dwindling. I feel so hopeless like this is never going to get any better. Thanks for your responses ladies.
Lisa

[MDHmommy]

Hang in there Lisa - it sounds like he's a wilful little dude!

Above all else, you've got to be super consistent. If DH is taking him out of the crib, that's not going to help. My advice to you would be to take a break for a couple of days and regain your patience and motivation and then set out a plan for exactly how you're going to sleep train him. I'd suggest that you do it yourself for the first few nights, and I'd suggest you do a Wi/Wo plan with him - and maybe make the time between your entrances around 20 seconds long - extending from there as you think he can handle it.

The fact that he's having a temper tantrum in his bed tells me that he's not really having SA - so GW isn't really the answer. But that's just my opinion from my own experience, FWIW...

Do explain what you're going to do *before* bed, and then stick to it. Just like if he were having a fit during the day - you would not cave and give him the cookie he demands, don't cave at bed time either. He just needs to re-learn that bed time is for sleep. And you can do that without abandoning him.

Hang in there, it will get better if you are consistent.

Keep us posted.

[holdenlouis]

Yes he is a very determined and willful little boy! I don't know if that's good or bad. But anyhow the nap went good today but I had to give him benadryl for the itching on his bum. He has eczema and he scratched his bum good. This may contribute to the sleep problems. So we have a topical antibiotic and a&d ointment to put on it but it still itches so doc said give him benadryl. I really didn't have to keep my hand on him that long he was so sleepy. See he is not talking and he can't tell me what's wrong which is very frustrating. He had an evaluation yesterday and they said he qualifies for speech therapy which will start in about 2 weeks. When I start the wi/wo what do I do to calm him and how long do I stay in there. We tried this before and I don't think I gave it enough time because he would just get hysterical. So I gave up and did GW with PD. That really ed him off last night though. And how many times do I wi/wo? And how long 2hrs or however long it takes? My DD has school so I would and should probably do it over the weekend. Thanks.
Lisa

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi there--

I just wanted to chime in a couple of things:

--Remember that sleep training isn't about you soothing your LO; it's about giving your LO a chance to figure out how to self soothe. 

--Even if he's not talking a lot, he can still probably understand a you just fine.  Explain before you even go into his room what is going to happen using simple terms.  Keep you tone confident and reassuring.

--Personally, I'd try wi/wo.  At this age, when I walked in, personally, I'd use only my voice.  Since your hand has become a prop, any patting, etc. may just be sort of a tease--tantalizing him that you might keep your hand there until he's asleep.   Yes, you wi/wo as many times as necessary.  When you walk out, stay out long enough to assess the direction of his cry.  If it's a genuine "I need you" cry and it's escalating, walk in, say something reassuing, and walk back out.  Don't wait for some prescribed amount of time.  Go in based on the quality of his cry.  I had to do some wi/wo with my DS at 18 months and I found that he did an angry holler a lot.  It was  not a genuine I-need-you cry and if I went in for that it tended to make him angrier.  It was sort of his new mantra cry.   And yes, keep it up until he's asleep, even if it's 2 hours.  Don't ever get him out of the crib.

--At this age it is not uncommon for LOs to only require 13 hours of sleep.  If you're getting 1.5-2 hour naps, I'd plan for an 11-11.5 hour night. 

I think it's a great plan to wait for the weekend when you can really commit to being consistent.  Sending your {{{hugs}}}--sounds like you're having a really tough time.

Bethany

[holdenlouis]

Thanks but what about the temper tantrums and thrashing around in his crib? This sounds so hard to do because he is such an intense lo. I wish I could record and post a video of him but not sure how. Then you could hear what I'm talking about. Today's nap was 1.5 hrs but only 9 hrs overnight. Will keep you posted.
Lisa

[Peek-a-boo]

My LO is seriously spirited too.  We've had a lot of sleep training moments that looked like auditions for the WWE--throwing himself against the crib bars, letting go of the rail so the slams back into the mattress, flailing and thrashing, all while screaming hysterically.   

When I did wi/wo with him, I walked in, sometimes hugged him over the bars--often he was too wild for that to work.  I calmly said something like, "I know you're frustrated, but you're very tired and it's time to get to sleep.  If you need me I will always come."  And then I walked out. 

You have to do what fits best for your family, but, for my LO, if I got him out of the crib, or resorted to our old props, it only encouraged more screaming/thrashing/flailing etc. the next time in hopes that I would repeat the AP. 

Hope you find something that works for you.  The advice these other ladies have given you is great.   

[holdenlouis]

What do you mean you walked him or did you mean wi? I did try to hug last night too over the crib but it didn't last long. I am going to do what kate said talking to him and explaining what we are going to do. Thanks for the help ladies. Wish me good night sleep vibes!
Lisa

[MDHmommy]

I agree with Bethany - when our DS would have tantrums in the crib I just treated them like any other tantrum. I would say, I'm sorry that you're frustrated, I know this is hard but you need to go to sleep now, it's sleep time. Then I'd leave.

I always ended up counting outside his door because the sound of him crying any kind of cry would make me crazy - I had a really hard time not rescuing him - if I didn't count, I'd head in there after a half a second and we'd be back to square one. 

Piles of sleep vibes headed your way ----------------->>>

[Peek-a-boo]

Yes, I meant "walk in."  Sorry--typo.  I've fixed it now. 

[holdenlouis]

I am such a wimp! I didn't do it! I talked told him what I was going to do blah, blah, blah and I caved. But when I tried to leave he sat up and wimpered so I said it's ok and he laid down. The 2nd time he sat up and laid back down without seeing me, crying or a hand on his back. Maybe the talk worked or he was just too exhausted to fight. I will try again tomorrow.