Help with going from 4 to 3 feedings

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi ladies,

Hoping to ask your treasured advice once again. Luke is currently getting 4 milk feedings a day, which look roughly like this

7 am bf
11 am bf
3 pm bf
6.45 pm bottle formula, 200 ml

I think we're getting to the point though where we have to only do 3 feedings a day, if only because of naptimes extending and his solid intake increasing quite a bit.

My anal personality is desperate to make sure he is getting enough when he bf's . Any advice on how to wean during the day so the 2 middle feedings can become one big one?

TIA
 

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Have you checked this out from the solids board?
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=68458.0

As you can see, it tends to be a bit later (closer to 9 months or even later) that most babies go to 3 feeds.  You really want to watch that the solids don't over power the milk - milk is still the more important part at 8 months.

What's happening with his naps that the 2 bfs during the day aren't fitting?

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi Erin,

Thanks for that link, I hadn't seen it and just read it.

So there are a few reasons behind going to 3 feedings:
- the way things work here (I live in NL) and pressures from his baby clinic. The advice here is that from 7 months you give a milk feeding upon wake up and sleeping, and then there are 3 solids meals per day with the middle one a porridge-like meal mixed with 200 ml ebm or formula, and then 2 snacks during the day. I don't quite want to do this especially as I have no intention of expressing milk every day for his lunch meal, but I am still told that it is overdue to drop a middle feed

- he is starting day care and his age group gets one milk bottle per day, then sometimes a bottle or sippy cup with juice/baby tea/ etc

- naps are getting later. They seem to be in the midst of evolving but seem to be going in the direction of 10.00-11.30, 2.30-3.30/4. So I thought this was my cue to start tweaking his bf routine a little bit? 

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Honestly, I dunno.  I kept 4 bfs or cups of milk until after a year for my kids - I would just offer milk after naps along with am and bedtime.  I don't think it *really* matters as long as he's happy and getting enough milk, right?    Here's a link about amounts:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=57483.0

It certainly makes sense to try and have some consistency with his daycare - I found my kids settled better when my routine matched theirs pretty closely. That said, I find it a weird recommendation that he's overdue to drop a middle feed and he's only 8 months old....but rec's vary a lot from place to place...

So....really I have no advice!  Other than to do what seems to work best for both of you.  Know what?  I'll ask Rachel to see if she has any thoughts!

[RachelC]

Personally, I would hang on to the 4 feeds... can day care give one bottle of EBM and a sippy later of more EBM?  It just doesn't make sense to drop to 3 (or 2) feeds, as breast milk should be the main source of calories for another 4 months.

How often is he in day care?  What is the routine there?

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Thanks for the advice, you've helped put my mind at ease. 

At the day care (3 days/wk) the general routine for the group is:

- (Morning bottle and breakfast at home OR they give mashed fruit in the am)
- 12.00 ish juice plus a sandwich with spread (such as cheese, margarine etc) - I don't do this, I've asked them to give food I provide
- Sometime after that an afternoon bottle
- Afternoon snack of rice cakes with fruit spread or veggie sticks
- (Dinner and last bottle at home)

He is the only baby there who's still breast fed so most are just following the standard advice.
Of course I can vary from this a bit, especially to give him a milk bottle along with his lunchtime solids and no juice (I don't want to give him juice yet anyway), and then another bottle in the afternoon.  But since his naps are getting a bit later that means at least 2 of his feedings are pretty close together, either the middle two or the last two. Does this matter?

Also, should I reduce the amounts in the bottles for these middle two and hope he will take more in the am and pm feedings?  I tell the day care to give him 180 ml for each of these bottles, though when I pump I only get about 100 ml out so I suspect he takes less at these feedings anyway

[RachelC]

Here's my thoughts for a routine to keep 4 feeds:

wake up - milk then solids
10-11:30 nap
11:30 - milk
12/12:30 lunch
2:30-3:30/4 - nap
3:30/4 - milk and snack (milk FIRST!)
5/6 dinner and milk

Do they tell you he is only taking around 100ml?  Remember, he is more efficient than the pump, so he is getting more than 100ml from you on your days home.  I would ask how much he is taking and base it on that... or experiment at home, offering ebm instead to see for yourself. 

- 12.00 ish juice plus a sandwich with spread (such as cheese, margarine etc) - I don't do this, I've asked them to give food I provide

Are they listening? 

[jess, lukeys_mom]

hi rachel,

no, they haven't told me he is only taking 100 ml, i've instructed them to give him more, around 180 ml, and he has *never* had a problem finishing his bottles, no matter how much i put in there!  i only thought that since i am pumping so much less during the afternoon feeds, that maybe he doesn't take as much for these feeds and shouldn't get as much at day care.  i am pretty sure they are doing what i ask for lunch - i know he's not getting sandwiches - but i don't think he eats so much for lunch there, it ends up being more of a snack.

thanks for the routine post, that is pretty much what we do now i just thought maybe the last 2 feeds were a bit close together

can i ask you another ? as you mentioned pumping output. i have also been pumping before bed for ages now. used to do it for the df and just kept it up. for a while there i was getting about 140 ml, now it is as low as 80 or 100 ml with no real changes to my diet/lifestyle, etc. could this be that my supply is just decreasing, or that since i pump more now during the day that my boobs are just getting used to the pump and not getting as much out?

jess

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

I always found that as my kids got a bit older, my pumping sessions yielded less and less.  I don't think it's necessarily a *supply* issue, but as a pump stimulates your supply less than a baby, the pumps extracts a bit less each time.

[jess, lukeys_mom]

that's definitely happening with me. for the afternoon pump session i only yeilded a measly 50 ml, forcing me to do a couple of formula feeds as well 

just one more question (i prob should've started a separate thread, oops) - if i am pumping 3 days a week and yeilding such a small amount, is this in itself going to potentially diminish my supply? in other words will my boobs start to 'think' that the baby is less hungry during the day?

[Erin (redstarfalling)]

Yes. You might not be getting a letdown on those feeds with such a small supply.  THere are some suggestions on pumping in the FAQs, but it can help to keep pumping for a little while, even if there's no output (keeps stimulating the breasts).  There's also the thought of some galactogogues (fenugreek, blessed thistle) - might help increase your supply overall, and help with pumping.