Support for Short Nappers

[GabrielsMum]

Hello tysonbing,

I'm a newbie and so probably not that helpful, except to commiserate and say that Gabe has been doing the same. The afternoons are esp fraught because he is so OT! For a while went to each of his (very short) naps like a lamb, but now we get a fuss almost every time and have gone back to shh/pat. Right now he is screaming like a banshee whilst my husband (wearing ear muffs) is patting him down.. will he go.. who knows, its a mystery. Gabe is a VERY alert baby and has been  since birth. We find that if it is too light in his room and he is OT then there will be a battle - he gets too distracted by his room. Wow he is really putting up a fight! 

I have never found that keeping him up longer helps and we have the same issue at the end of the day.. we have to end up putting him down at 6 or 6.15 as opposed to 6.45 or 7. I don't think that he sleeps as well when he goes down then..

What time does Brodie get up in the am? does he sleep through?

[arabesque]

Hello everyone,

Was just perusing the boards and stumbled across this thread, so don't mind me if I loiter around here!

DS Toby has erratic short naps - seems to be an A time problem. But he goes through a grumpy phase in the middle of his A time where it clearly looks like he's very tired...then he perks right back up again. This morning he lay in his cot gooing and gahing for 10mins while he was "supposed" to be sleeping. Chances are he'll wake any second to remind me he wasn't worn out enough before I put him down 

[DylansMum07]

Hey Bec!   Sorry to hear Toby's having some napping troubles.  I just pulled out my BW book again to refresh my memory of how it's "supposed to work".  Actually it seems that between 6 and 9 months the biggest complaint from parents has been "inconsistency" with naps.  Some days they'll take a long nap in the morning, some days in the afternoon... some days they drop one altogether.  We're still dealing with 30 minute naps right now and I know it has to do with OS when we're out the house- or perhaps mummy playing too hard.  It always happens when DH and I have Dylan vs. the nanny.  At least Dylan is happy to stay quietly in his crib for a long while before he says, "Yo, I've had enough rest Ma!"

I was surprised to read in the book that Tracy thought that babies up to 9 months should still be taking their first nap at 9:00 am (if they wake at 7).  Although on page 38 of BWSAYP she acknowledges that many babies are going down for a nap at 9:30 at this age.  I can't quite figure out the right time to put Dylan down anymore and I think the first nap kind of sets the tone for the day.  It seems we keep winding up with a 30 minute nap regardless of what I do.  I think tomorrow I'll start the wind down at 9:00 and see what happens. 

Tonight he was asleep at 6:15 because his naps were so off- the earliest ever!  But he didn't complain.  He fell asleep immediately.  Poor thing.  We drug him around looking at washing machines today.   

Tomorrow is another day!

GabrielsMum-  Dylan is the very same with "light in the room"... or he was when he was younger.  I honestly haven't dared to test if he's over it yet because I'm too afraid to take down the black drapes we have sealing out all the light!

[GabrielsMum]

Hi Bec, Adorable picture of Toby! What a character! Sorry to hear about naps, Gabe is the same. Today we had some success with going in early (at 35 mins ) and just pushing him through the 40 min mark. I sat quietly next to him and put a hand on him and just rhythmically shhh'ed. He made a few mutters at 40 mins and then went back to sleep.. so that was AWESOME. We missed this window this arvo, but will try again tomorrow. I find that Gabe is going in to bed, immediately rolling and crawling and then whinging and whinging. He falls asleep on his tum, but wakes 10 mins later. so I have to turn him over and oat him down on his back.

Should I be leaving him on his tum and hoping that he works it out. Should I try patting him down on his tum. Its a bit disheartening when you usually olny get 40 mins and then this is reduced to 10 mins!

[GabrielsMum]

ps Dylans Mum, the prob with the darkened room is that I can't see Gabe when I peek in! Infuriating!

[arabesque]

Hi Gabrielsmum!

Your little Gabe is a cutie pie! So good to hear your version of W2S worked today for you. Toby's a bit too strong for me to do that...he's forcefully up on his hands and knees and there's not much I can do to stop it! For about a day I could lay my hands on him quite firmly and he'd resettle, but that's gone now too (sob).

You mentioned that Gabe is rolling to his tummy - Toby does this too. It took a few days until he could go back to sleep on his tum, and now everytime I put him in, he rolls and prefers to sleep on his tummy. There were a few NWs while he learned to get comfortable after rolling during his sleep, but now he's a pro - except for the kneeling part when he wakes up!

Sooze, are we all making some dreadful mistake by putting our bubs down after 9:30am? I think Toby would either not sleep or definately wake after 45mins if I put him down before 9:45. Hmmm. I wish we could clarify with Tracy. But Toby just never seems tired, with the exception of about 8:30am and 12:30pm, which are his whingy phases. Oh well. For the past few days we've been having some EW, but this morning he was thudding around his cot at 4:45am (I thought, "great, here we go") and I straightened him up and we heard him at 6:50! So a better morning despite another bad naps day yesterday.

Well, a shocker nap day (for us) today. In the am I put him to bed at 9:45 (5min extension of A time to *hopefully* get a longer sleep) but he woke up at 11am covered in his breakfast which he chose to vomit up, mainly on his face. Poor little man. So of course I didn't try to put him back down after I cleaned him up, just had a cuddle until feed time at 11:30.

Pm nap started at 1:45, and ended just before 3pm. So he's doing this hour or hour-and-10mins thing but I don't get what I do to fix that - I know 30mins is OT, 45min is UT, but what is 1hr?!?!?!

[pbmom]

Becaroo - oh no - you're over here too now.  Welcome to the short crappers!  I have been asking the same Q: what's 1hr???  Or 50min?  I just can't figure it out.  Lately we've had mostly long ones so I've been on her trying to help others with my not so wise advice.  But recently she's been fussing about again at much earlier marks in the A time.  So much so that I've put her down early a handful of times and she's slept 1hr20min (GREAT!).  But, other times I do the same thing and I get a weird 34 min nap.  I thought she was waking at 40 min so I was assuming more A time, but since I seemed to not be getting it right, I sat and watched the video monitor like a hawk and realized that she's actually waking at 34min and just not making any noise until 40-45min.  So what I thought was UT was OT?  Does that even make sense?  (I seem to be saying that a lot lately). 

Poor Lord Toby puking his cereal.  What's with that oatmeal and his tummy?  On a brighter note, he's an angel of sorts so I'm sure you'll be straightened out lickity split!

Suze - have you tried the 9am thingy as Tracy says?  I was reading all about that last week too so I laughed when I saw you must have been combing your books as well.  At least we know we are not crazy and that they all are doing something of the sort.  I too was surprised to see that T recommended 9/9:30 nap for wakeup at 7am.  But then again, I really shouldn't have been b/se P used to go down at 9:30 at 9 months old and she woke around 7ish.  When I initially heard about all these babes around here going 2.5-3hr A time, I was shocked!  So maybe we've all been a bit off.  B has been much more "mobile" lately.  Maybe the right word is active.  She's always been a live wire, but lately it's like she works a lot of energy out trying to crawl and trying to pull up, so maybe she's just tired earlier?  I don't know.  If you figure it out let me know

Gabriel'smum - yay on the nap extension - I'm jealous.  There's no extending here anymore...she just gets up on all fours and says "hey mom it's play time!"

Tysonbing - HI!  Been a while since I've "seen" you.  Sorry it has to be here on the short napper thread.  What's that lo up to over there?  Hmmm...let me think.  Keeping B up always backfires on me. 

[DylansMum07]

So Robyn, when you know Brooke is awake but isn't making any "I need you noises" do you go in?  Dylan still gets more upset when I go in than when I leave him be for the most part.  This morning I did put him down at 9... but he was awake at 6:00am.  So I don't suppose that counts.  I thought maybe it would but apparently no.  Another 30 minute nap.  He didn't seem tired before then though and I was really paying close close attention.  I am determined to figure this out!  (And secretly hoping he'll grow out of it.)    Oh geez... he's calling for me now.  Gotta run!  I'll come back and chat with everyone later on!  Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond to everyone.  Gabriel'smum- I even tried 15 strokes on the belly with Dylan today- no luck!  Oh he's angry... ta ta!

[nevviemama]

hi all, funny I get the 1hr too sometimes and can't figure it out! Girls night out went ok, although I wasn't feeling so hot coming home late! dd was ok with dh though - slept through most of the night with a few wakeups before the df, then went to 3:30 and 6:30ish. She was a bit fussy through yesterday though, think she may be a bit sick (no fever but her nose has been a bit crusty) and I think she didn't like so many bottles! Quiet day yesterday with one trip out to grandma and grandpa, she slept in the car seat there for about 45 min and in the car on the way home. She was OT when we put her down around 7:30 and NOTHING worked. We tried for over 2 hrs, with tears and fussing every few min. After 2 hrs I finally unswaddled and brought her downstairs, and she passed out in my arms almost instantly (so couldn't figure out why I couldn't get her to sleep upstairs), and that was around 10. But after that it's been great - feed at 3:30, then at 7 with only 2 other quick wakes and back to sleep with paci. Went down at 8 for a nap until 9:30 (one paci replacement), then feed at 10 and down at 10:30 (reacted quickly to the tired cues) and she slept for a full 2 hrs! Feed at 1 and now she looks ready to go down again. So terrible evening turned into a textbook morning almost, not sure what to expect later in the day since her naps always go downhill! But she went down SO easily at 10:30 - if I could only be so "on" in reading her cues each time, cuz obviously missed her window last night!

She's 3 mos (adjusted 2.5), and not sure if I should try to cut the 3:30 feed - it seems to be the same each night so per T could be habitual waking, but as I feed her I also notice that she's gassy/uncomfortable (maybe from the df), so should I feed her then or try no? Is she too young to cut that feed?

[pbmom]

Nevviemama - glad to hear girls' night was good, but hate those early morning after, eh?  How good of DH though - what trooper, NW and all!  Mine would die...literally - LOL!  Hope she's not getting sick.  Yay on the cue reading and great 2 hr nap!  Wish I had one of those lately.  I've resigned myself to the fact that B just doesn't need as much sleep as those textbook 2-2hr nap babes.  Just FYI - a lot of babes that age (and much older) still need one night feed.  Is she taking a full feed?  If so, then I would keep it for a bit and when you want to phase it out make sure that you add oz./time during the day to make up for it and a good DF too, so that you don't feel like she's hungry if she wakes and you need to cut it out.  If it's always the exact same time then I'd say habitual, but she's so young, I wouldn't worry about it just yet.  Have you tried the paci at that time to see if she'd settle without a feed or shh/pat?  If she spits out the paci, I would say hunger.  FWIW, once the daytime routine settles itself the NW/EW usually cease.  Unless paci/prop dependent (like we were). 

Gabe's mom - LMAO at your plan to tell stories at his 21st...I think you should write them down and give them to his wife some day! 

Suze - poor Suze.  I hear you on the what to do when they wake at 6am but you leave them in there secretly hoping they'll go back to sleep and then you aim for a nap at 9am.  B always would do a too short/OT nap when I tried that.  So, now I go from when she wakes up the last time (as she usually goes in and out for the last 1/2 hr (even if I don't get her out of there until 6:45, I count her as being up).  Like today, she woke as follows:

5:55am (party until 6:21 when she went off again until 6:34)
6:34 - her wakeup time
6:45 - when I go to her and turn on her music and go get a bottle, etc.
7:00 - take her out and feed
For nap time though I watch cues mindful of the fact that she was up at 6:34.  So, today she got very fussy at 8:20ish.  I though whoa way too early, but I watched her and picked her up and determined at 8:30 that we should WD and she was asleep by 8:39.  She did wake at 45 min mark for 10min to play and then back out.  So total naptime(cribtime) was 1hr34min.  I usually don't count the playing, so 1hr24min.  I know from my observations the last couple weeks that I could have waited about 10 more min and then she probably wouldn't have woken for so long at the 45 min mark, but I've pushed it before and gotten a 30 min nap, so better to be safe than sorry.  In my book, 45 is better than 30 even though they both suck. 

To answer your Q: Not to sound mean, but I NEVER take B out of the crib when she's making little noises, fussin' about, rolling.  Not for nap and not in the a.m.  I only get her when I can tell she's not going back or doing the "I'm on fire" cry (which has only happened a couple times).  99% of the time when she wakes early she's cooing/moaning.  If she wakes up crying I am in trouble as she will not go back.  But I usually just leave her alone when it's in the middle of the nap and she usually goes back out.  That being said, for a while there (2weeks or so) she would wake up mid nap and cry a bit (not the I need you, just frustrated) and I tried going in and it annoyed her.  She's beyond the shh/pat now and for naps I don't do pu/pd, so I'd leave her be.  All the while Paige would be saying "uh, oh, baby" and pushing the button on  the video monitor to see her.  LOL!  I have noticed that if she doesn't go back to sleep within 15-20min, then I know she's really up.  Sometimes though I remind myself of what Alissa told us on the other thread....it's like they wake up and aren't comfy so they fuss and groan and moan and coo and what have you as if to say, oh that's not comfy, where's my blankie (or in your case paci), etc.  I also don't wake her at any particular mark either though.  And I don't wake her at a set time in the a.m. so morning nap is never at the same exact time.  It's within the same range, but not at say 9am.  Maybe that's where I've gone wrong...I often thought if I woke her up then I could sort of set the day, but I really just decided that if she's sleeping she needs it and she usually wakes up within 30min of the same time anyway.  Rambling, I know, so HTH.  PM me if you want.

[Love being a mommy]

DylansMom- Thanks for your questions... Elliot has pretty much the same erratic naps every day, ie I never know how long they will be or which ones will be longer.  I had charted a weeks worth and could see no distinguishable pattern outside of the fact that the naps were around the same times everyday, give or take 30-40 mins.  Now today, miracle of miracles, he only got up ONCE last night and his naps have been an hour each so far.  It may or maynot be due to the fact that he has exhausted himself crying today (trying to make the switch from breast to pumped BM in a bottle).  He has not been a happy camper today 

[GabrielsMum]

Poor old Daddy is back in the lions den patting down the tomato coloured babe. It seems that this is the way its going to be until the bub can figure out this whole sleeping on Tum think for himself (I live in hope, based on what you said Bec!)

I worry that I am not keeping him up long enough, but I feel like I have to obey the tired signs! This morning was a stinker though:

Wake 6.45
Feed 7am (BF)
Tired and fussy at 8.10
Into cot at 8.10... Yay the circus has come to town! Yee ha! Crawl, roll, somersault, kick kick kick, roll, bounce, rock (and the hits keep comin')
Get him up at 8.30
Whingy babe (my favourite!)
Down at 9.00 (see circus above)
9.30 Daddy sent in... scream etc etc pat/shh

So too early? Then too late? Aiiiieeeeeeeeeee!

[arabesque]

ARRRGGHHH!

Need to yell! Put Toby down for Nap 1 at 9:45, as per usual. DH working from home today so I took off to the Library, got back 10:45 and guess who's just woken and is screaming the house down? You guessed it!

WHY WHY WHY? Naps were sooooo good about 2 weeks ago - at least 1.5hrs twice a day, and now we have 1hr max. I'm so cranky about this because I just don't know what to do to fix it. And I'm Mrs Fixit! Plus, I did PUPD for 20mins with my poor screaming boy, then I was too upset to continue. I just don't know what to do. Our routine has gone AWOL, and the EWs continue with the crap napping.

Okay, it's all out of my system. SOrry this post is all about me! Any suggestions?

[benners318]

I find it so interesting that the majority of the moms posting recently have all been around the 6 month old mark (besides two if I recall).  Maybe, we are all experiencing a 6 month growth spurt, teething, etc...episode.  Either that or July babies are just all ganging up on us!  ha, ha.

I'm having no such luck on my end either.    I'm exhausted from the weekend of trying to get my babe to sleep through a few feeds at night.  I feel I made it worse now...and now my husband is out of town for the week.  So I'm just not going to keep trying right now.  I wish I had someone who could come to my house and tell me what to do or to coach me along.  Wierd thing too is that since these last three nights have been rough...he's been taking decent length naps (one hour sometimes a little more than that).  Does that mean anything to any of you?

I do wonder if he is either sick or teething.  He has had a runny, congested nose (along with his brother) since Dec 2!  He's been more fussy lately (usually he isn't at all) and now he was coughing a lot during his afternoon nap.  I just don't know anymore.  He has a 6 month check up on Friday...maybe the doctor will have some answers or suggestions.

Jenny

[pbmom]

Hey Bec - sorry for the shorter naps as of late.  They do suck!  I'm sure Lord will get back on shortly.  In the meantime...is he waking at 1hr mark every time?  Have you tried to add A time - even 5-15min?  Is he waking up crying (sounds like it)?  

FWIW, pu/pd for naps sucks unless you want to be in it for the long haul.  Not worth it if you give up as at this age they just learn that if they cry you take them out.  Takes a couple weeks to extend naps with it.  And, Tobes has been taking good ones so it's probably just a routine tweak that's needed.  Want to post your current routine?  EW are no doubt OT or developmental.  Didn't you say he's just about to crawl (I think I remember a photo of him on all fours)?  If so, that could be messing up all his sleeps.  Maybe once he straightens that out he'll go back to normal.  You seriously may just have to ride it out.  Maybe someone can make some suggestions when we look at your routine.  

Jenny - LMAO that the july babes are gaining up on us!  I AGREE!!!!