Support for Short Nappers

[DylansMum07]

Gabriel's Mom-  I agree with Robyn that you may need to extend your A times.  It's funny, but right around 6 months (at least for us) it seems that they need much more activity time to get a long nap.  I am still trying to get a good feel for what is right for Dylan but it looks like right around 3 hours.  He wasn't able to do that right away and so we had at least a week of short naps and still have them now if we're out and about.   Prior to 3 hours of A time, he was at 2.5 hours and before that 2 hours but the transition to 3 hours went much faster than I was expecting.  I've also started really trying to wear him out in those awake periods between naps.  We're doing much more physical activity than we used to (although his only trick is rolling over and sitting up...) That has also helped.  It's odd because it does feel like it happened rather suddenly after months of being able to count on 1.5 hours of A time.  

Dylan screams for naps when he's not tired enough to go to sleep.  So if its close to his limit of A time I just take him out and read him a few more books.  Then, once he's ready to settle himself I leave the room and try to hold off on going back in as long as possible.  Since getting a video monitor and I can tell what he's up to.  I was never good at distinguishing the mantra cry vs. regular cry.  Now with the video monitor I can see that he cries in frustration quite a bit.  He's not asking for me, he's just mad he doesn't have that pacifier or that he jolted awake when he finally dozed off.  Today I watched him jolt five or six times after only about 5 minutes of sleep.  Although he cried at first, he settled himself but was never able to go back to sleep.  I felt bad for him- you ever have just one of those days when you can't sleep?  I think it relates to the fact that I took him out for lunch with DH and over to the office.  He was out of his familiar surroundings and probably got a bit OS.  

Maybe once those naps get a bit longer you'll be able to get him past the 5:30am wake up??  I have found that a catnap and early bedtime really help on days that he didn't get the naps I was hoping for.  

Jessica-  a 30 minute nap often indicates that Elliot might be OS or OT.  He sounds like such a sweetheart he may not be letting you know when he's had too much.  Does it generally happen for the same naps each day?  For instance, with Dylan, I found that his first nap was usually the longest of the day and then the afternoon ones were short.  The  50 minute nap might mean that he's just having some trouble making it over the sleep cycle hump which is pretty typical for a baby so young.    Have you seen any kind of pattern?  

[GabrielsMum]

Thank you DylansMom and Romansmom for getting back to me.

I have only just read the Babywhisperer and so am looking at the techniques and trying to learn to apply them. this is how our day goes at the moment. I'll use 5.30 as an example although he got up at 6.30 today (because I fed him at 4.30.. I know, I know.. I shouldn't have!)
5.30 get up
5.30-5.50 Feed
5.50-7am A
7-7.40 S (looking very chipper when waking)
7.40 - 8.30 A
8.30 -8.50 - E
8.50-9.30 A
9.30 - S (He flags early, lost of tired signs, rubbing eyes, whingy, yawning, bright eyed)
10.10 - Wake and A (try and get him out of the house)

The above goes on all day steadily losing ground, not to mention that he gets very hard to put down at the midday period, screaming and crying. No matter if we try at 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 hours (yes we've gotten to 4 hours)

My husband has been able to settle him with ssh pat, which he still responds to.. but I don't think so for much longer. At night he sleeps 6.30pm to 10.30pm (he wakes himself) we feed him. And then he either wakes at 4.30 and then gets up at 6.30 or he just wakes at 5.30. This is a great improvement on what we had...

Because his naps are so short and when he wakes he still looks tired to me (although happy) I don't think that extending his A time to 3 hours will help.. But we can give it a crack. So as you see.. he does nap, usually 3 x 40 mins per day. But that's it.

[pbmom]

Gabrielsmom - I think that you are doing a great job!  I also think that he's waking at 5:30ish as he's OT from the day before.  Generally speaking, the 4-6am timeslot is a lighter sleep for babes and if they are OT they wake and stay up.  I think that a longer A time might help.  How old is he again?  6mos?  His A time is only 1.5hrs.  That probably accounts for the short naps and then the OT before bed which then is an EW.  Make sense?  That's also why he would be very hard to put down in the pm as he's so tired.  Babies are the opposit of adults when OT - they can't fall asleep easily and sleep fitfully if at all.  I think you probably need to intervene at 5:30 to get him back to sleep.  Let me know what you think.

[DylansMum07]

Gabriel'smom-  I was thinking about you this morning because Dylan woke up at 5:15 and stayed up for 30 minutes before going back to sleep until 6:45.  I think his early wake up has a lot to do with the fact that I took him out for one of his A times yesterday.  When I brought him home, even though we were back before his nap was to start and had time for a nice wind down, he still slept very fitfully.  And I'm not sure you could even call it sleep at all... just 10 minutes!  He startled awake 3 or 4 times around the 5 minute mark and then just got so frustrated that he woke up and couldn't resettle.  I've learned, although I always hope he can handle more, that being out of the house really throws him off.  On the days that he is stuck in the house with the nanny- he sleeps great!   

That being said... this morning he started the day with a 30 minute nap!  Grrrr.... I'm letting him stay in his room, although he is quite chipper, because he will often go back to sleep if I give him some time.  Also, I want him to learn that I expect him to be "down" for at least an hour and a half.    I think even on the occasions that he doesn't get any more sleep, at least he gets some down time.  Having a video monitor has been absolutely essential in helping me to stay out of his room when I'm trying to figure out what's going on.  Once he sees me, he wants to get up and play.   The fact that Gabriel is happy is a good thing, you should feel comfortable leaving him on his own for a while to encourage him to sleep.  If you did this in the morning, do you think he might fall back to sleep? 

[GabrielsMum]

Hi Guys, We ll we had a good night, on the whole. Gabe has been a fitful sleeper at best. He has slept through a few times (the holy grail) but has usually woken at least twice (up to 6 times) in the night since born and has been difficult to get down without a feed. Lately he has been sleeping 6.30pm-10pm (or 11) and then we give him a formula feed and then to 4.30 or 5.30. My husband has started to do a resettle at 4.30 (he's much better at it, as once G smells me- he wants milk!). If we resettle or feed at 4.30 he sleeps till 6.30. If not wake at 4.30 then up at 5.30. This is all a vast improvement on waking all night long. But that 5.30 wake is just a difficult time for routine and also for me...

I do tend to leave him in his bed just moving around for a while in the morning. This morning I re positioned him and tried patting him back down, but he was having none of it. I fed him, changed him and had him up till 7 when he started seriously rubbing his eyes and yawning. I put him down and he went to sleep straight away. I know that there was the suggestion that I keep him up longer.. this would  mean ignoring those tired signs (which seems a bit counter intuitive?). Also I find that if I keep him up past those early tired signs he won't go down without a BIG fight.

I was thinking that I might try going in at the 30 min mark and seeing if I can soothe him into a longer sleep... (It's hot here at the moment, he has a fan on in his room, which he likes). These 40 min naps hadn't been such a dilemma for me until he started this whole 5.30am business. I still breastfeed him every 3 hours and we give him solids twice a day (he's 6.5 months). Should we be trying for four hourly feeds? He isn't demanding to be fed at 3 hours. Oh, ARG! I used to think about other things you know!

[GabrielsMum]

He's up and its 7.40.... sigh. It begins again... He wakes up very happy. Seems fine. Within 20 mins of being up he is getting cranky and rubbing his eyes. Could it just be boredom?

[DylansMum07]

What happens if you just leave him in there?  Is there any chance he'll go back to sleep?  Are there any props? Pacifiers (my personal fave)? 

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

GabrielsMum - I would surely try to go to 4 hourly feeds.  Sometimes this transition helps with sleep (as weird as it sounds)

[nevviemama]

Gee, when do things ever improve - at 3 months I was hoping to see headway and I see at 6 mos + you guys are still having tough times! I guess Tracy is right when she says the only constant in parenting is change!
Yesterday she had a good morning, she actually went 4 hrs b/w feeds (10 and 2) - her midday nap was about 1hr15 so I got her thinking she was good, and 10 min later she was so sleepy so I put her back down at 1 and she slept until 2. But then we went visiting, and she slept for maybe 30 min in her carseat and then drifted in a bouncy chair but didn't sleep. When we got home I put her down (45 min only) fed her then I popped in to a friends (late - I put her to sleep around 10:30 in her carseat) and then when I got her home, gave her a df and put her down close to 12.  I was scared that I really messed her up with going out late and maybe she was OS from the 1st visit (was a playdate). She slept until 3:30 and then woke up every hour after that, just not a happy camper. Fed her at 3:30 and 6:30, other times had to resettle her to get to sleep. She finally did a 2 hr stretch in the am 8-10 but has been hard to put down today (although in good spirits). She was also spitting up a lot this morning. Could that be OT/OS related - she doesn't usually spit up that much.

Oh but one thing that's been working quite well is covering her eyes when the room isn't completely dark. I was skeptical, but it really works! I think it helps her tune everything out and then she realizes she's tired. Used it for 3 naps already and she went down very easily (and who knows, maybe it did nothing but I had the nap timing right!)

Good luck to all. I have my first girls night out tonite, so dh will be with her all night (when I get home I'll sleep in the spare room). It will be his first overnight with feeds since I bf) We'll see how it goes!!!

[GabrielsMum]

He doesn't have a dummy (paci), he refused to take it after about 3 months - weird I know. I tried putting him down again at 9 - which is soon after 7.40, but he was so cranky and lots of tired signs. He rolled all over and eventually fell asleep for about 10 mins. I left him in there hemming and hawing (not crying) for another 30 mins and then got him up to feed him as that was 4 hours... I just put him down again at 11 and he has kicked and moved around his cot for 30 mins and just fell asleep then on his tummy. I should point out that we have a sleep positioner which doesn't stop him rolling.. he likes to suck on it. also we still wrap him, he gets out of it straight away.. but its a ritual. Just then I decided to forget the wrap and when he got out of the positioner I let him roam around. I checked him a couople of times, no outright screaming.. a few regular squawks.. then when he started to sound more serious I went in, laid a hand on his back and he fell asleep immediately. How long he'll be down for is anybody's guess. Probably 40 mins. 

[DylansMum07]

GarbrielsMum-  Boredom actually has fooled me before.  Now that Dylan is able to sit up and roll over he suddenly thinks he should be able to do more and gets quite frustrated when he's lying down rather than sitting up, or grabbing that ball that just rolled out of his grasp. He yells at the ball.  He yells when he wants to sit up.  Its a side to his personality we didn't see until after 6 months and although its probably worse when he's tired I have confused it for fatigue and wound up with a short nap.  Now I know its just his personality.  I was so hoping I could chalk it up to being tired!

Nevviemama-  You are right!  Change is the only constant!  Once we got past 3 months the night time sleep got much more predictable.  I was hoping we'd have the same magic at 6 months for naps but they forgot to tell me how much developmentally is happening. It certainly changes everything.  Much easier to work with a baby that doesn't roll over or give you his opinion when he's not happy with how you are doing it!  Sorry you had a rough night!  Those should get better if you keep at it.  Your inkling about her play date yesterday afternoon making her a little OS sounds like a good possibility.  Its hard when everyone wants to see her to stick to a routine but I'm sure she'll forgive you!  We covered Dylan's eyes for a few weeks.  It really helped him settle for a while, then he got wise and started pulling it off his face and yelling at us, "What do you think you are doing??"  Have fun with the girls!

GabrielsMum-  I see you just posted again!  I think letting him hang in there after lots of A time for an hour and a half sends a good message to him.  Dylan did fall back asleep twice this morning after waking from his nap first at 30 min.  He took two more quick 20 minute naps.  But it's all down time in my book.  He's not getting OS during this time and he knows that I will come and get him when its time to get up.  Hopefully when he gets a little more mobile he will be much more physically tired and will sleep throughout. 

[GabrielsMum]

DylansMum - thanks! I will try and keep him up a bit longer..Today seems to be worse then usual.. not sure why. Anyhoo, he work up after 10 mins! Yep.. 10 mins! so put my Shh/pat hat on and put that sucker down. He's asleep again. Seriously I am telling all of this at his 21st. Every grimy detail. And he better not knock a girl up and then expect me to look after that grandchild until he's at least 30!

[DylansMum07]

LMAO GabrielsMum!  Good luck to us both tomorrow! Keep that suckeroo in his bed!

[ElsMom]

LOL GabrielsMum!  Love that you're telling his sleep woes on his 21st!  I've told my mom that I'm giving Elsie her sleep/eat journal when she has a baby, and my mom thinks that's a terrible idea and will scare her.  I think it would be mean to give it to her when she's pregnant, so that's why I'll wait until she gives birth!   

[tysonbing]

Well guys, I'm back again.   

Brodie is now a little over 6 mos old.  His schedule is wacky b/c he never takes the same length of naps everyday.  Usually, we do the AM nap two hours after waking and he sleeps anywhere from 1hr 20 mins to 2hrs.  Then the afternoon nap is where it gets HECK.  He has been screaming when I lay him down, like he doesn't want to take a nap and sleeps about 30-40 mins tops.  I used to could pat/shh him back to sleep, but he gets HYSTERICAL till I get him out then seems wide awake.  Today I tried a third nap, but it didn't happen, so it looks like bedtime might be as early as 6pm.  I've tried keeping him awake anywhere from 2.5-3hrs.  Is this too long?  Should I move back to two hours?

UGH!