Author Topic: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?  (Read 2643 times)

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Offline KittyCat

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15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« on: November 05, 2007, 17:24:05 pm »
I've been weaning my DD, and know she was waking from habit and not hunger.  We are now down to just BF at bedtime.

DD wakes (habit) around 11pm-12am, then again around 5am-600am.  Sometimes there are other NWs, but these 2 are the usual.  I'm more concerned with the early A.M. wake up, as sometimes she sleeps through the first NW.

When she cries out, I give her a minute or two to settle on her own, then, I'll go in.  I just pick her up and cuddle her against me.  She snuggles right in and calms down (she used to fight, so this is a huge improvement).

If I don't pick her up, she gets completely hysterical, and then it takes even longer to settle her.

Any advice on how to stop the nightwakings, or how to handle them?  I really need my sleep, as I am now PG with #2, and my sleep is very interrupted as it is.

Offline mari

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2007, 19:57:52 pm »
Could you post her daily routine?  What times are wake ups, naps and bedtime.

Offline KittyCat

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2007, 23:53:32 pm »
These times are approximate, as she sometimes wakes early (and is super grumpy when she does)
Wakeup can very from about 830 - 900 (on her own), and meal and nap times are adjusted accordingly.
She gets milk with and after her meals, as I'm trying to get her to drink more so I can cut the last BF (She is not yet drinking 16 oz or more per day).  She eats well so I'm not concerned with that.

wake 9:00 (except on days she decides to wake at 730 or so and not go back to sleep)
breakfast 915
snack 1100 / 1130
nap 100 - 200 (if I'm really lucky, she'll go to 2:30, but it's rare)
lunch 200 / 215
snack 400
dinner 530
BF 730
bed 745/800

NW 1100pm/1200am
NW 5am /6am

sometimes the odd wake up 3-4am, other times especially lately, she'll wake 5-6 am and then cry out on and off until about 730, then sleep until wake up for day.

I've tried adjusting her wakeup and bedtimes, but these times seem to work best for her.  She will only go for one nap, no matter how much /little she sleeps.

Is there any other info I forgot?

Offline mari

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2007, 20:39:18 pm »
Well, looking at your routine I think that she is waking due to over tiredness.  I think that the over tiredness starts with the first nap being so short, but it is rather late. I would try to put her to nap around 12 or 12.30 and hopefully it will be for longer if she is not so tired going down for it.  I also think that bedtime could be earlier, nearer 7pm.

You may not see an improvement immediately but it should help.

Offline KittyCat

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 16:43:10 pm »
Thanks for the reply! :)

Unfortunately, putting her down earlier makes the problem worse.  She will fight and refuse the nap, and by the time I get her settled and she's finally sleeping, it's the same time as her nap is now (or later :( ).  And then she only sleeps 30-40 mins.  So she ends up being awake for longer in the afternoon on less sleep.  Can we say 'cranky toddler'? :P

It took alot of trial and error just to get her where she is now.  Her naps used to be 30-40 mins regularly, so a full hour is an improvement.  I'd love for her to sleep longer, but she has other ideas. 

With her nap and bedtime as is, she usually goes down fairly easily.  It's the night wakings that are so troublesome.  Right now, the only way to calm her is to go in to her room, pick her up and cuddle her and when calm I put her back down.  Sometimes she just rolls over and goes back to sleep (until the next waking), other times she loudly protests, so I pick her up again and repeat.  I tried leaving her in the crib and soothing her, but she just stands up and pulls and hangs on me, wanting to be picked up.

We also didn't have any success with an earlier bedtime; it just moved all her night wakings that much earlier.

I just don't know what else to try....apparently everyone I know that has children have perfect little sleepers and they never had any problems ::) and so don't have any useful advice for me.  They keep saying I'm doing something wrong.  Gee, as if I don't already think that :(

Thank you again for taking the time to help; it is really appreciated 8)

Offline mari

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 22:22:13 pm »

We also didn't have any success with an earlier bedtime; it just moved all her night wakings that much earlier.


How long did you try it for?   Remember, the night waking have probs become a habit now, but I really think that they could be due to overtired and the earlier bedtime will help eventually, but it could take a few weeks.  She isn't having the amount of sleep and she probably drops off at bedtime so easily because she is so tired.

Offline Layla

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 22:28:55 pm »
Does she wake at 9am more often than 7.30am? I would actually wake her up at 7/7.30am so that her internal clock gets used to waking up at the same time every day.

You mention she wakes at 4-5am then cries on & off until 7.30 & then drops off until 9am.... is that right? Rather than let her sleep in until that hour I would start the day at 7.30am, do an early nap (start at 12pm no later) & do bedtime at 7pm.

Layla



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Offline KittyCat

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 17:51:47 pm »
We tried the earlier bedtime for almost a month....I know it takes a while for them to get used to a new routine in order to see a difference.  Sometimes she went down easily and others she fought like a babe possessed.  The night wakings still happened at the same rate.  I found it was easier for her (and me!) not to force it.

She sleeps until almost 9:00am most days, but there are the days after her early morning/night waking around 5am that she just doesn't seem to want to stay asleep.

I've gotten up with her at 7:30 in the past, hoping that she'd nap better.  What I got was a very cranky, tired and whiny child all morning, until she had her nap.  And she'd sleep between 30 - 45 mins for the nap.  So, I hoped she'd sleep better for the 2nd nap.....but she refused taking them. 

DD has always had sleep issues....just as I figure out something that works, another thing comes up.

I will try again, with an earlier start to the day (7:30) and earlier nap(noon-ish) and earlier bedtime(7:00).  It hasn't worked in the past, but maybe it will now?  I'm willing to try it; I hope it works for her now.

Thank you for all the advice :)

The biggest issue I have in waking her up at 7 /7:30 is that I can barely function at that time -- after waking up so much all night, due to the sporadic sleep, I'm just a zombie and it makes it that much more difficult to handle her when she's whiny, tired and high maintenance in the a.m.

Offline mari

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 17:52:57 pm »
KittyCat, how are things going?

Offline KittyCat

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2007, 00:51:24 am »
gah.... I'm so tired....


Things haven't changed very much, and what has is worse.  She is still having those wakings, as well as earlier ones.  And she's been staying awake longer at them, and having trouble going back to sleep.

Example... yesterday

wake 7:15 (on her own, very cranky)

nap 11:40 - 1:00 (longer than usual by about 20 min.) Tried putting her down earlier, and you'd swear I was torturing the poor girl.  This is when she finally fell asleep.

bed 7:05

nw:
825pm
905pm
1015pm
1115pm and kept going on and off until 200am!
awake 730am

The day before had 3 earlier wakings as well, and again 330-6am...


Her naps are still only about an hour (except the one that went a little longer.

Between her waking up so much and me spending all that time trying to calm her to put her back down again, and then the newest little one waking me up by jumping on my bladder...and just having bad sleep to begin with.....omg....I am a walking zombie...

this is supposed to get better...right???  It's been almost 16mths....sleep would be nice.... :( ...for both of us...

Offline Layla

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2007, 01:16:59 am »
{{{HUGS}}}

Can you tell what you do every time she wakes up. All babies wake at night in between sleep cycles but if you are somehow helpign her get back to sleep then she is waking again expecting the same thing....

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Offline KittyCat

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 01:52:12 am »
I usually give her a little on her own first...she CAN put herself back to sleep, she's done it before.  If after a few minutes she still hasn't settled, I go in to her.

I have to pick her up and cuddle her to calm her (I've tried to settle her while she's still in the crib, but she shrieks more and tries to climb out to me).

I hold her belly to belly against me, her legs around me, (and if necessary sway her a tiny bit) until she settles and her breathing has returned to normal (usually anywhere from about 1 - 4 min).  As soon as I feel she has started to relax I gently shift position and put her back in her crib. She usually rolls over onto her belly, cuddles in and goes back to sleep.  Sometimes she starts to cry when I go to put her down and then we go through it again.

I've tried putting her down earlier from the cuddle, but she's usually still too wound up and will get right back to being upset.  If I hold her longer, she'd fall asleep on me, and I don't want to start that habit :P

Once I've put her down, I leave the room.  The next time it happens, I do the same waiting period before I go in her room, and I extend the time between visits so she doesn't expect me to come running.

Offline Layla

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2007, 02:10:26 am »
I think you picking her up is also a habit/prop... what about sitting with her & trying to shh her but leave her in the cot. I undestand that she wil probably cry harder as its something she is not expecting but I do think that she is waking up so many times at night because of the way you respond to her  :-\... Toddlers need to learn how to self settle & if she's picked up & cuddled every times she wakes then thats something to be waking up for...

I don't know... thats just my opinion :-\



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Offline mari

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2007, 09:19:56 am »
When you say that she wakes and you leave her a little to see if she will settle, is she crying when this happens?  How hard is she crying?  Does she just have a little whinge or is she really crying? 

Offline laurencopenhaver

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Re: 15 mth old Habit Night Waking - what to do?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2007, 14:43:28 pm »
Hi there, I agree that she's using you as a prop.  If she calms down when you hold her but won't when she's laying down, that she obviously doesn't NEED food or anything, and just is using you to get her back to sleep.  If you say she won't do it on her own when she sees you than she never will if you don't MAKE her.  That will be the first toughest issue.  If you want to nip this in the bud you have to make that decision and stick to it.  The first time you do it she may not go back to sleep for even an hour or more.  But if you don't give in one single time, she'll get the idea.  But w/ a new baby coming you don't want to have to get up w/ her and be the one to have to put her back to sleep.

As for the wakeup,  I agree w/ the same wakeup every day.  Do whatever time you want her to wake up.  If her biorythem is 9 am, that consistently try to get her to sleep till then.  Or if she wake a couple time a week at 7:30 and won't go back to sleep, than do sometime in b/t like 8-8:30 and wake her.  If she wakes at 9 and naps at 1, that's not too much awake time.  That's only 4 hours and at 15 months that's fine for most kids.  Many can do up to 5 or more at that age.  And 6 hours before bed isn't too much either, I don't think.  If that's what works for her than keep to it.  I do think the nightwakings, especially the early am one is due to her wanting you to put her back to sleep.  My son is 16 months and very rarely do we get a night where he doesn't cry out 2-3 times.  I usually don't have to resettle, but occasionally do.  So I personally would  decide when I wanted wakeup to be, then stick to your current routine and try to fix the dependency thing first.  That right there might be the true cause, and if that gets fixed her routine might stabilize.  You could also try 15 min earlier bedtime, although I know you said that didn't work.  Or do more quiet/down time before bed, maybe that would allow her to settle a little earlier. But if she goes to bed at 8, sleeps till 9 (13 hours!), and takes an hour nap during the day!  Wow, that's 14 hours total.  Most babies don't get that much at 15 months.  I think the average is 13.  A 13 hour night is incredible for most kids.  And I don't think you're going to get much more than that.  Maybe wake her 30 min earlier and see if you can get that 30 min back at naptime.  Cause i don't think she needs more than 14 hours a day. And maybe if her night is a little shorter her nap will be a little longer.  Don't know if any of this helps, but good luck.