Help with starting easy with a windy 3 week old

[emz1907]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on here. I recently bought the Baby Whisperer book to try and help guide me to care for my 3 week old boy Callum. Previously on the midwife's advice I have been feeding (bottle) on demand. He suffers badly with wind and despite trying infacol and dentinox along with all manner of winding techniques etc it seems to make starting easy much harder. He often falls asleep by the end of a feed and we had been putting him down once he was sound asleep. He nearly always wakes up not long after we put him down with wind pains and after trying to soothe him its often only a bit more bottle which will send him back off. Im very mindful of not getting him reliant on the bottle to fall asleep but when he's screaming Im not sure what else to do. The sucking of the dummy just doesn't do it sometimes, he knows the difference between the teat of his dummy and teat of his bottle. The first week or so he was having a last feed about 11/12 ish and waking again at about 3-4am for a feed then sleeping through until 7ish. But now his last feed seems to be getting later and later and its now at around 1-2am. He still wakes at 4.30ish which means we're up twice during the night now. It can take up to 2hours from waking to getting alseep again, I need some sleep! My midwife has said not to wake him for a feed but to feed whenever he chooses to wake up. Its all 'on demand' and it seemed right to start with, I feel wrong to wake him for a feed as I worry it will make him more cranky.

Im not sure any of that made sense, Im very stressed and still finding my feet with being a mother. I want him to be as happy and settled as he can be and I feel like I need some guidance on how to do things right. Ive refered to the book a few times and finish feeling confident, but when he doesn't act like Tracy describes I find myself feeling down and stressed again Can anyone help me?

[shenzy002]

Hey - how are you doing ?

Sorry I can't offer any advice - but just wanted to say that I'm starting EASY aswell with my 3 week old (I've got a post going just now) and I know how you're feeling. Lol, my EASY routine that I was trying ended up looking more like a pigs ear than a routine....
What I found though (and this only what worked for us and I'd had experience from my daughter) was that what I thought was wind - was a bit of reflux....we've got our 3 week old on Carobel - I dunno if you've come across it before  it's a feed thickener - and I just use a little amount in his bottle and it stops my lo from taking in as much air when he's having his feed, it definately helps him....I dunno which bottles you're using - but after us trying about 20 different makes  - we use Tommee Tippee Health Check (supposed to reduce wind / colic etc, very similar I think to Dr Browns....Infacol and Detinox didn't work for us).
I know what you mean aswell - about when your lo is screaming, you don't know what else to do apart from give him more of his bottle.....what I found (again, this is just what worked for us), was that our lo, wasn't actually windy or hungry, he was just over-tired (despite sleeping most of time - he was still over-tired)....and I found that dimming the lights and putting on some soft back ground music (tv off etc...and put on some soft lullaby music - lol, my daughter used to fall asleep to Michael Jacksons Man In The Mirror - lol) and doing some pat/sushing (could sometimes take about 20 mins to get his settled) - while walking around really helped calm him down and then he'd nod off to sleep - I'd put him in his moses basket just before he was fully asleep - and he'd maybe sleep for 45 mins or an hour (i've also got a dummy - and oh yes, they totally know the difference if there's no milk coming out....but I think sometimes, our lol was just using the bottle to self sooth himself back to sleep)...Anyway, when he woke, I'd start EASY again - it maybe wasn't the right time to feed him or whatever - but at least it gave me a starting point to work on...
Our midwife was the same - she would always say "feed on demand" and yeah, I agreed with her, but you need some kind of pattern to follow...and you need some kind of sleep aswell - I've found even getting a couple of hours in between feeds helps.
I'm sorry I can't be of more help - I'm only saying what I find is working for us for now ... but each baby is different at the of the day.
Hang in there though - you'll get some great advice and help from this site - the folks here are fantastic. You're not alone - I know the feeling of being stressed and down .. but it's like I've been told - alot of the time it can take lo's till there 6 or 8 weeks old before you can establish some kind of routine with them. Right now, they're just finding there feet and so are we. Don't be hard on yourself - it's hard work being a mum and bringing up a lo...and the 1st few weeks are tough....(lol, I'm acting like the voice of wisdom here - I've just had a glass of wine to help my stress).
Anyway - take care.
Big Hugs - I'll be thinking of you at 4am when I'm up with my lo.
Michelle

[kristenren]

Hi.  I am also trying to implement EASY with my 3 week old Charlie.  I thought I'd join in this post.  Maybe we can share experiences and learn from each other's mistakes.  I tried to start EASY about 1 week ago.  Before that he would be up from 7 am to 12pm and then sleep all afteroon and wake for feeds at 12am, 2am, 5am and 7am.  Since I tried to start implementing somewhat of an EASY routine he skips the 12 am wake up.

My issue is I just can't seem to get him on EASY.  He does not want to go down for his morning or afternoon naps and bedtime isn't much better.  He screams everytime I put him in the crib.  I actually let him scream for 10 minutes this afternoon and he finally fell asleep.  It was so hard to do and I have no idea if that is the right approach but I felt that picking him up everytime he cried was re-inforcing the wrong behavior.  I think I am putting him down at the right time because I see his tired cues (i.e. yawning), but 1 1/2 hours later he is still wide awake.  (I am using a dark quiet room too). 

I know the frequent naps are important but sometimes it just seems easier to let him stay awake as the screaming when I try to put him down is wearing on me. 

I'm interested in reading more about your experiences.  I'm headed off to have a glass of wine now.

[MJMom]

welcome all!  And CONGRATULATIONS on all of your little ones!

emz1907 - shenzy makes a lot of good points about Overtired.  Many little bubs can get VERY easily over tired and it's often confused with hunger or what ever else.

I ironically had my child on EASY per my pediatrician's advice, but it wasn't a BW thing.  He just said to focus on the cycle of Eat Awake Sleep, which got us through the beginning.  At this early age, that is the routine you want to focus on.  The times are a lot less important than the order of events.  And at this age, they will almost always wake when they're hungry.  Their A times are really short too.  The A time is inclusive of feeding, so if your little one takes 45 minutes to eat, you probably only have time to change a diaper before they are back off to dream land.  Their A times are only about 45 minutes to an hour at this age.

As far as allowing your child to cry, Tracy asked us to remind posters that she always cautions against any form of crying it out/controlled crying because she feels it breaks trust between parent and child. She said many times that there is a gentler solution for every situation, we just have to find it.

Also, I know a number of moms who have rocked LOs to sleep occasionally (myself included) and you can still teach them to be a strong independant sleeper.  This young, they will not develop deeply engrained habits that cannot be changed.

kristenren- how are you helping your LO go to sleep?

[emz1907]

Thanks for the replys

I bought Tracys 2nd book and felt quite confident again after reading BUT he still doesn't follow the 'rules' exactly. But then again I suppose every baby is different. The biggest achievement Ive had in the last few days is the settling down to sleep routine of swaddling then holding him close while doing the 'shhh' and patting. Its really helped get him off quicker than before. Thing is he still wakes not long after going down with wind or pain or to be sick which wakes him back up again. Occassionally some 'shhhs' will get him back off again but sometimes that's him back up and its only been 2 hours since his last feed. He often looks for food as soon as he's up, but this doesn't fit in with the 3 hour routine Ive been feeding him anyway if he's looking for it, not sure if that's right? If he doesn't look for food though, what do we do? He shouldnt technically have 'a' time as he needs the 'e' first.

I read some of the symptoms of reflux in the book and I think he might have that as apposed to wind. Is there anything you can buy for that or does it need a dr's opinion?

[emz1907]

meant to add- we use close to nature tommee tippee bottles. We did buy the anti colic version too but doesn't seem to make any difference   We tried gripe water yesterday instead of infacol or dentinox. It still doesn't stop the wind although it seems a tiny bit better but it has made him throw up more. We had a total exorcist moment last night eww!
Also with the overtired thing, I have noticed him becoming tired and if he isn't down in time he will scream murder until I start the wind down methods.

[kristenren]

I was trying the shhhh pat technique and also putting him in a swing, bouncy seat, car seat, etc.  Nothing seemed to work.  But I can say, that overall he seems to have gotten better with the sleeping.  Not sure what i am doing right or if it is just luck - but the last couple days have been much better. 

[shenzy002]

Hiya emz1907

Just wanted to add a quick thing on one of your posts....re, you lo looking for a feed when he wakens but it isn't time for feeding yet. I remember being told that a lo who has reflux will look to feed before time (iykwim), as taking some milk helps sooth the reflux symptoms, so often they'd take maybe an ounce or maybe 2 to help ease the pains that they're feeling. We definately noticed this with our dd 1st time round. Not so much this time with the little guy - I think that's because we got the feed thickener / gaviscon etc.... before it got too bad  .
I dunno about where you are - but yeah, we have to have the dr ok the meds 1st before we get them...to be honest, when I spoke to our dr, I layed it on thick if you like.....they asked if I'd proped up his cot etc.....to help the symptoms and I said yeah - we've proped up the cot, we keep him upright etc..etc..etc.. but we really feel that we need something else to help him (we did do the preventive actions, but I just had a feeling that it wasn't going to help in the long run - it didn't for DD and after along battle we ended up getting some meds and I didn't want little guy to go through the same weeks of reflux that dd did ....).
Again though, it's hard to decide - maybe you have a lo that's feeding sooner than 3 hours (our lo sometimes has a bout of "feed me every 2 hours cause I'm straving - lol" ....or maybe it's ot and he's trying to selve sooth back to sleep. It's so hard to pin point it ..... )
It'd be great if we had a crystal ball each and we could look and see what was going on with them....lol.

Take care.
Michelle

[emz1907]

Well we've been to the docs this morning and she agrees it sounds like reflux. We have the infant Gavison to try, he's had 1 feed with it so far but he still spat up and seemed in pain afterwards Maybe he needs a few feeds before it kicks in? Anyway, we've to go back in a week to re-assess. We have to put 1/2 a sachet in his bottle, but to me it doesn't seem enough powder to thicken the amount of milk he has (5oz). Don't want to put a whole one in and go against what she said, but its just an observation. What was your experience of this? did it really help? any other tips?

[MJMom]

emz1907 - glad that you have pinpointed the issues.  That certainly helps.  Check out the Reflux boards.  There is a lot of information there on adjusting EASY for reflux.

I've heard similar to what Michelle says, but don't have experience myself.

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0

[emz1907]

Thanks Ill check those out. Im also wondering if he may have a hiatus (sp?) hernia. Both his daddy and grandad had them when they were newborns and from what I gather they run in families and can cause similar symptoms. Ill mention it if this gaviscon doesn't work.

[MJMom]

Yikes!  That sounds no fun!  That may be worth a call to your ped as a follow up as well.  See what he/she knows about that

[shenzy002]

Hiya

Infant Gaviscon didn't work for us to start with either.....with DD, they gave us Carobel (don't know if you've come across it before it's a feed thickener), it worked a treat for a while - then they moved her onto the Infant Gaviscon. With DS, they started him off on Gaviscon and it didn't really do much good - so they've just put him onto the Carobel a couple of weeks ago, so far it's working great with him - but we don't use the recomended amount (making it too thick causes constipation) so, we started off on half of what the recomended amount should be and we're just seeing how it goes from there.
See how you're lo gets on - I was told aswell by one of our docs that Gaviscon isn't really a feed thickener - it's supposed to put a film on the feed to keep it in the tum tum and stop it coming back up...but sometimes it just isn't enough.
I'm only going by what we've been told and what worked for us....it's so difficult, every lo is different.
Have you checked out the reflux boards ?
Let us know how you get on.
Take Care
Michelle.

[Grace's Mom]

Just wanted to mention that you have the cutest baby!  CONGRATS.

Also, welcome to the site!

-Melissa and Grace.


BTW: How is your lo doing?

[emz1907]

Thanks for the compliment I obviously think he's cute too

I still can't say the Gaviscon has made a difference, but it is early days. He still ends up waking with what I percieve as pain (grunty noises, red face, bringing legs up, pained expression) really soon after we try to get him down for a nap. It means the putting him down routine is taking longer and longer, Im sure Im not doing it right too and maybe holding him too long but its because I know the pain will be coming and Ill end up picking him up anyway. He also wakes up as he being sick which still happens after every feed. Sometimes up to an hour or more afterwards. All in all its very hard to get him to get a decent nap.

Question - if he wakes before his next feed time what are we supposed to do with him? Try 'A' time? he will be unsettled and cranky but not always looking for a feed. Its getting more and more like a ESA instead of an EASY routine.