Ever shortening A times...

[skatty]

Nik, thanks so much, I literally just remembered that you went through this with Lily and was going to email! There is no A time in L's world at the mo' so as we have my mum and brother coming tomorrow I reckon a set nap time may as well start tomorrow, I'm thinking 12 as that seems to be a common nap time, all the kids in daycare where I live nap from 12 until 2, I know I wont get 2 hrs but any nap will be nice! You are right she does have her own rule book and I am sure she worries she'll miss out on something but she biologically cannot go without at least a small nap without it immediately making her OT 

Thanks for the teething vibes, how is Lily's teething, better than Leorah's I hope! Thanks again Nik 

[skatty]

Nik I just have to thank you again, what you said about some Lo's not being able to make the transition to a longer A time on their own makes so much sense! We will all be a lot happier with a longer A time finally and I am not too worried about short naps as long as she naps at all because she will make the lost time at night as long as OT hasn't accumulated. Too bad my mum and brother are coming tomorrow but at least they are family and adore her no matter what!

Thank you again and thank you to everyone that has been supporting us , it feels good to have a plan 

[NiknLily]

Glad you've got a plan and very pleased to help :-)

got fingers crossed for you x

[skatty]

Thanks, I am trying to write A c c u m u l a t e d but my comp wont let me and writes acmessalated! Wierd!!

OMG that is so strange, it does it every time, my spelling is bad but I don't usually make up new words!!

[skatty]

Ok we had a NW from bedore midnight until sometime after 2am!! L was then up screaming at 5.37am precisely  It is now 06.24 and I still hear her every now and then  I fear my good sleeper is gone forever, she is now severely OT and I don't see how we will come out of it because as usual when OT she can't stay asleep  If I push until 12 is it likely she will drop off or will she just be wired and uber awake? I already know any nap will be full of jolts because that's what she does when OT like this. I can't believe this is the same girl that can put in 14 hour nights and I have to wake in the mornings, sleep begets sleep must have been coined for her and the less sleep she gets the less she can sleep KWIM? I honestly can't see any light in this situation and to make matters worse she gets terrible SA when OT which will be upsetting for my mum who hardly sees her anyway 

Well I am going for the 12 nap anyway as we have reached the point where I don't see how things can get much worst and a corner has to be turned doesn't it? Nik have you any more detalis about what happened with Lily to keep me going?

Thanks from a very wired, OT Katt 

[skatty]

Crikey, I really need someone to tell me this is going to end! I got Leorah up at 7.30am by 8.30 she was crying so hard and so hysterically that DH took her for a walk thinking she'd crash and he'd let her sleep 20 mins max, she didn't and screamed the whole walk which was half an hour. When she got home I calmed her down and she has been having non stop tantrums and is falling over  It is 10.45am and I am still planning to put her down at 12 but she is so wired I can't see her sleeping  She is outside playing with her great gran at the mo'. I am feeling so bad for her, I have also been in tears this morning, not surprising as I also have severe insomnia now and only had 2½ hours sleep last night myself, I just don't know how to help her  Will she eventually just crash? Once I get her back on her routine I am not messing her about ever again, I knew she was sensitive but this is ridiculous!!

[skatty]

It's me again....SHE'S NAPPING 

At 11.45 we changed her nappy and for the first time since I can remember there was no resistance so decided to put her down, we had one minute of protest and she calmed down, kept hold of her dummies and lovey and was asleep by 11.57  She is having a very twitchy nap and I am ready to run and resettle! We just passed 30 mins with a big jolt but she didn't wake  I think she may well be at that pushed point, I hope the only way is up now, I can't describe the relief I am feeling that she can still fall asleep in her pushchair without help. I can't thank you all enough and Nik what you described yesterday is exactly where we were at, I now have dreams of a long nap and normal bedtime for the future! Normal in this house has been 5.30/6pm for at least a year!

OMG our neighbours just pulled up which started their dog off barking right around the 40 min mark, L opened her eyes for about 10 secs, repositioned and went B2S, they did W2S for me, they are lucky because if it had gone wrong I would have been mad  Hopefully she is set for another full cycle now! I'll update 

[lesorl]

Oh Katt- what a night/morning!  I'm so glad L is now sleeping and here's hoping it's a nice long nap and you'll be back on somewhat of a track.

[jcsmom]

Yay! Sounds like you may be on to something. Fingers crossed that you had a good, long nap.

[skatty]

Well she woke from the nap after about 55 mins but this is the best nap she has had on ages, she fell asleep in a reasonable time, wasn't driven or pushed and woke slowly stretching and sat in her pushchair for 5 mins chilling out. She is much happier this afternoon but very, very tired so we are putting her to bed at 5pm and hope she can stay asleep tonight and not have a long NW, yesterday alone has made her short on at least 5 hours sleep  My mum and bruv arrive while she is asleep so that will be an exciting morning tomorrow especially as they will be laden with gifts  I am just praying for a good night to help things along!

Thank you for your support while you are having troubles of your own Leslie and Jcsmom 

[Vicku]

Katt, I was out all day yesterday so sorry I've not been able to help.
Lois is the same that the more sleep she gets the better she sleeps and of course opposite. Gets OT and OS very easy. We were in the same place as you are now and Lois was severely OT and we had NW, EW and nap problems for what felt like aaages BUT now she sleeps great again, so remember this doesn't have to last forever and she is likely to be back to sleeping well as soon as this teething is over and she's recovered from the OT (which can take a while, but WILL happen)

What Nik said about the A times and them not being able to extend *by themselves* was so true for us. With Lois, it was only when I pushed her A time to set a nap time that she started to sleep better. By then I thought I was pushing way too late as she seemed tired earlier, but it worked although it took a week or so and then settled in over a few weeks time to a good nap. As I said early on in this thread it was my gut feeling that she needed longer A time, but I totally forgot about me having to push Lois' and that it didn't happen on its own. Yay for you Nik, and hope this will help Leorah too.

Hope tonight goes well! Remember that if she's teething really bad you can give both Ibuprofen AND paracetamol when one doesn't help enough for them to sleep well. It's not bad for them short term, and if it can help sleep then it helps overall as OT from lack of sleep isn't helpful at all.
Poor Leorah! It must be so painful getting molars. I'm still struggling with stubborn wisdom teeth that have taken years to come through and I can really sympathise with the LOs. I'm NOT looking forward to Lois getting her 2nd molars as the forst were so bad I'll be crying out to all of you to keep me sane when the time comes LOL

One more thing I though about from RYSC is that spirited children can sometimes be more sensitive to things like teething, getting OT, OS etc and so making this whole process a lot harder for kids and parents.

Vibes for Leorah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
{{{{{{{{hugs and strength}}}}}}}}} for you

[NiknLily]

Well done L giving mummy a somewhat nervous and anxious 55mins but at least she slept and you got a break too.

Not sure what to advise really Katt.  I do think setting times will help her regroup on the sleep front.  I can't really remember what it was like when Lily did the nap dropping A time pushing stuff (I think I block it out once its done  ) but what I did find was on a dropped nap day it was early to bed by missing nap or as close as I could get it.  Nap 30mins early next day would normally give us a better nap than normal bringing us back to normal nap end time then normal bedtime.  This generally used to get us back on track, although maybe at first it was taking 2 days of this before she was back to old routine.

When it came to Lily wanting to extend her A time and me not responding she was frequently playing in cot for upto an hour before sparking out and then taking a short nap, simply by putting her down 30mins later she started going back to sleep within 5-10mins.

The thing with Lily is that I never really do mess with A times to compensate for ews or bad naps etc (I used to try but it always backfores so now I don't bother).  Now when she skips a nap its usually me that instigated it I try to get her down 30mins early for bed but still the next day its nap & bedtime as normal and she just seems to come round from sleep loss within a few days 3 at most, normally her sleep is back to normal after 1 day, its just her mood which shows she is still tired.

Heres hoping she falls asleep OK tonight (I've put an order in for you  )

[skatty]

Hi Vicku and Nik, I am feeling much better even though we haven't had a great nap, I was starting to worry that she was starting to associate the pushchair with trauma! The teething is still quite bad today but it is secondary to the OT so I forgot to medicate her before her nap which may not have helped. I have before given ibuprofen and paracetomel and it really makes a difference but I worry about how long she teeths so don't do it often, I have given her ibuprofen in her juice at tea and then if (thinking positive!) she has a NW my mum is bringing medised and calpol from the UK and although they are the same strength as the DK stuff they seem to do the job better. This time it is the top molars hurting so maybe they are moving into position, that always stirs things up, I find the not eating all day and going to bed the worst part as her mum but she has drank gallons of milk so I am sure she will be ok.

Totally off topic but how depressing my neighbour who must be in her 60s is standing outside talking to a friend in a lepoard skin bikini and looks better than I would in a bikini 

Now about 10 min ago Leorah lead Martin to the bath to start her routine, I love that she does this now  I now know if she falls into a deep sleep as her head touches the pillow she is extremely OT and wakes up in the middle of the night for a long NW, when she takes a while to get into a sleep it seems she is not so OT so here's hoping she doesn't crash! Touch wood she has always settled really well for bed but she will usually cry out around 3 or 4 hours later when OT and then probably follow with a NW.Looking at positives as you have to, at least you know what not to do next time and also my mum will be able to really see just how sensitive L is to her routine 

Thanks for the order Nik  Good sleep vibes and (((hugs))) to all 

[elmarie]

{{{HUGS}}} Katt, I only had time to read all of this and C went through a similar thing with teething (molars) which lasted about 2 weeks or so.  i was also distraught at that stage that my wonderful sleeper has developed SA and was waking every 2-3h for 2 weeks and then one day everything was back to normal.  What I'm trying to say it will get better.

[Vicku]

Hope last night was a good one for you all!

LOL about the leopard skin bikini

more vibes for a good nap today ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
we're going to the beach again as it will be a hot sunny day, so don't know what Lois will do nap wise... they've been all over the place on these days out. Usually she'll take a 30-40 min nap on the way there in am and the same on the way home in late pm so far she's ben fine and it's not affected her night sleep, so hope we're not pushing it too far by doing it again. She did have a good nap of 2 hrs at home yesterday at the normal time of 1pm.
Wish you and L could join us to the beach! After all you're just across the Kattegatt, you could take a long swim over