Extend A time?

[yellow rose]

My almost 15 week old is waking early from his 2nd and 3rd naps all of a sudden.  I was going to extend his A time, but now I have noticed that he's really chomping on his little fingers and appears to be teething.  I have given him Orajel with some success and just gave him some Tylenol because he was really upset.  At night though, he is fine and sleeps straight through without any fussing.  So, is he really waking because of his teeth or because he's under tired?  Is this a bad time to start increasing his A time?  Currently, his A time is 1 hour and 30 minutes.  When he was napping regularly, I would wake him after 1 1/2 hours, so I think if I kept him up a little longer, he would probably nap a little longer also, as it doesn't seem he's ready to wake up as it is, but then he also doesn't always seem ready for the next nap - still wide eyed and pleasant.  There have been some mornings that he has woken early and I have experimented then with keeping him up longer and he did fine with it.  I'm just nervous to make the next jump!

[becky1969]

I think you're ready to make the jump!  At around this age, 1hr40-2h is pretty normal.  So, go for it! Extend slowly --10-15 minutes at a time.  also, I wouldn't wake after 1.5 hours.  BW usually suggests not letting your child sleep more than 2 hours at a time, but if you're waking at 1.5 hours you might really start getting your child into a short napping habit.  2hours is more what we're aiming for!

[yellow rose]

I've looked at the suggestions for moving A time by 5 minute increments, but feel like I should do more of what you suggested and move it by 10-15 minutes, but his feeding times get really messy, especially by the end of the day.  It's also hard to fit in a catnap because all of the naps are later.  Any suggestions?  Here is his current schedule.

E 6:30
A
S 8:00 - 9:30
E 9:45
A
S 11:00 - 12:30
E 1:00
A
S 2:00 - 3:30
E 4:00
A
S 5:00 - 5:30
A
E 6:30
S 7:00

[becky1969]

I'm not sure what you mean by eating gets messy?  It looks like your feeds are all about 3 hours apart, which is probably fine.  You should actually probably be moving more towards a 3.5-4 hour EASY, but that will happen as your increase your A time and your naps get longer.  It's kind of spooky how this works, but Tracy Hogg is a genius!    As you increase your A time, your LO will naturally sleep closer to 2 hours, which then makes your feeds more like 3.5-4 hours apart.  You'll probably end up with 2 long naps and 1 cat nap once you're done stretching everything out.  Or, you'll end up with 3 longish naps of 1.5 hours and no cat nap.  At any rate, it will resolve itself -- just experiment with stretching, keep your EASY going (in other words, always do it in that order, regardless of clock times), and you'll find the sweet spot in A time where she's comfortable right now!

I'll tell you my secret too: about every 4 weeks your child will be ready to increase A time.  i found with my son as soon as naps started shortening again, I'd just increase A time by 15 minutes and voila! Back to long naps!  Obviously, when babies are ready for an A time increase varies from kid to kid, but 4 weeks is the avg., so just keep that in mind every month! Also, the amt of A time they're ready to increase varies as well, but 15 minutes is usually a useful guideline, so start there and adjust (forward/back) as necessary.

Make sense? Or clear as mud? 

[yellow rose]

Sorry that didn't make sense.  I just mean that his last two feedings get pushed so close together.  For instance, today, I have increased his A time to one hour 45 minutes.  If I continue that all day, his last feeding will only be about 2 hours, if that, from late afternoon feed.  Typically, he does not do well with cluster feeds because he has reflux and he either spits up even more or doesn't take much at the feed.  I'll just have to play around with it and see how he does tonight.  Also, as I said before, there isn't time for a cat nap in the afternoon, but his A time will be too long - close to 2 - 2 1/2 hours and I'm not sure how to fix that.  Here is the "plan" that I'm working on today.  Any suggestions?

E 6:30
A
S 8:15 (He slept for 1 hour 40 minutes)
E 10:00
A
S 11:40
E 1:30
A
S 3:00 ish
E 5:00
A
E 6:30/6:45
S 7:00

[becky1969]

It's more important to stick to an A time your child can manage than to have a set bedtime, so if he can't make it to 7, then 6:30/6:45 will have to be the bedtime.

I had the same trouble with my son and reflux, so I used to just sort of did my best.  If he needed to eat immediately when he woke we did that, and then just tried to top him off before bed.  If he didn't take the feed, there's nothing I could do about it.  If you haven't instituted a dream feed yet, maybe now would be a good time? You would probaly aim for 10 if your feed is 5 pm.  Or, alternatively you could try waiting on that feed until 5:30 or later, if he can make it (and you know he won't take that 6:30/6:45 feed).

It's going o be a bit messy during this transition, but I think as your naps extend the problem will disappear.  You'll either be back at 2 long naps and a cat nap, or 3 longish naps and then your last A time will be the right length, and the feeds will work out better. 

[yellow rose]

Unfortunately, today's third nap was only 40 minutes.  Yesterday, he did the same thing, but had only been awake his usual 1 hour and 30 minutes.  He was extremely fussy this afternoon, so I did not keep him as long as I had earlier in the day, but he still didn't get through the nap.  I am really nervous about all of this because about three weeks ago, he finally got over the whole 45 min. nap thing when he found his thumb.  He was napping perfectly and our house was much more peaceful.    Now I'm afraid we're headed back down that horrible road again.
I agree with you that I could move his bed time up and some days, I may have to do that.  Yes, I do a DF at 10:45 each night and he sleeps until 6:00 or 6:30.

[becky1969]

I wouldn't fret if only 3rd nap is short.  A lot of kids just take a cat nap then, and it always amazed me at how my son who was a total 2 hour napper the rest of the day would NEVER sleep past the 45 minute mark after 4 pm! LOL! How do they know? Do they read BW too? 

So, you'll just have to adjust the end of the day.  It may mean you put him down earlier than you might have other wise for the night, or it may mean you'll have to stretch him.  If you want, put the new routine with the 40 minute nap and we'll try to work out a good compromise for the end of the day. 

That's *always* a tough time of day, though, isn't it? The witching hour is from 4-6 pm, and they are just so overwhelmed by the whole day of new adventures that they are cranky and wound up. 

[yellow rose]

So far, today is going well.  I backed up his A time to 1 hour 40 minutes.  It's only a difference of 5 minutes, but seems to have helped a bit.  The first nap was almost two hours!!!!     He's napping again now and it's been over an hour, so we'll see how he does.  The 3rd nap, of course, will be the test.  Since his third nap was short yesterday, I was able to squeeze the cat nap in and that certainly helped him get through the evening.  And actually, it's fine with me if he has two afternoon cat naps because essentially, we're trying to work towards two big naps earlier in the day and one cat nap at the end.  It may help him to do that for now.  I can't remember....what is the total recommended sleep that Tracy says they should get during the day time?

[becky1969]

You're aiming for 3 1.5 hour naps, or two 2 hour naps and a cat nap.  You want 15-18 hours of total sleep.

[yellow rose]

I wanted to get your opinion on my lo's schedule now.  I followed your advice and was extending his A time by about 10-15 minutes for a week or so.  Then, one morning, he woke at his normal time and was able to stay awake for almost two hours before going down for his first nap.  His second A time was also extended and he took 2 two hour naps that day plus a cat nap.     So, I decided to continue with that new 4 hour schedule the next day, since he did so well.  He has continued to do well with the new schedule, but sometimes I put him down earlier than 2 hours depending upon how tired he is.  I have noticed that since his schedule has changed, however, he is absolutely miserable in the late afternoon/early evening.  He is very difficult to keep happy and cries off and on from after the cat nap straight through to his last feeding and bedtime.  I thought maybe he was hungry because he had lost a feeding, so after speaking with his pediatrician, I started giving him some rice cereal at 5:00.  Unfortunately, that still has not made a difference, so hunger is obviously not the issue.  I am now thinking that he is just still trying to adjust to this new schedule and that maybe I need to move his bedtime earlier, but I am afraid that he will wake up too early in the morning.  Although, he as been waking earlier than usual the last few days, which I know can mean he is over tired from the day before.  Here is a "typical" day.  What do you think?

wake 6:15/6:30
E 6:30
A
S 8:20/8:30 (2 hours)
E 10:30
A
S 12:20/12:30 (2 hours)
E 2:30
A
S 4:00/4:15 (45 minutes)
A
E 6:15/6:30
S 6:50/7:00
DF 10:45

[becky1969]

First off, yay on the routine change helping him nap better! Awesome! You must be loving those 2 hour naps! 

It's hard to say what's causing the grizzlyness after the cat nap.  The hours from 4-7 pm are often called 'the witching hour' because lots of babies get really grumpy then.  I think they just become so overwhelmed by their day that it just kind of builds and builds until they are super grumpy at that time of the day.  With my son he stopped having that grumpy period around 5 months old.  It wa slike a switch just got turned off!

You can absolutely try bringing bedtime to say 6:30/6:45 and see if that changes anything.  That shouldn't be so much that it will affect mornings adversely.  But it should be enough to help if being OT is at issue.  The other things I would try is make post-catnap VERY low key: no light/noise toys, keep the house calm without lots of loud noises like TVs blaring (you can watch TV! Just make sure volume isn't too loud), and perhaps you could start that wake period with a bath.  That's what I ended up doing with my son at that age and I think it did help a bit.  You might even rely on the swing a bit during that awake period for soothing.

[yellow rose]

Thanks.  I wish I could use the swing during that time, but he won't even let us put him down.  He just screams!  Today has not been a great day so far.  He woke screaming at 5:30 this morning and I eventually got him to go back to sleep at 6:20.  I let him sleep past his normal first feed (6:30) and woke him at 7:00.  Then, he took a great 2 hour nap at 8:40.  I put him down earlier because of the disrupted morning sleep.  Then, I put him down 1 hr. 50 mins. later and he woke after 30 minutes screaming.  I have been listening to him on the monitor and he cries, then finds his thumb and settles down, then cries again.  It's off and on and I'm not sure what to do or what is wrong with him.  The last few days have been frustrating because he was doing so well and then I was out one day and he was home with dh, who did a great job, but just my being gone threw him off because that was the first time I had left him that long during the day.  Ever since then, he just can't seem to get it together.

[becky1969]

Do you think teething is a possibility? This is the age my son first started teething, and we saw our first tooth a little after 4 months old.    He sounds really frustrated, not just tired.  pain might cause that.

[yellow rose]

It's certainly a possibility.  My oldest had his first two teeth come in together at 4 1/2 months.  He actually stopped crying on his own and ended up sleeping a full 2 hours.     I try to let him work it out on his own as much as possible, but without leaving him alone too long.  I have found that going in to his room makes the crying more intense and he is less likely to go back to sleep.
So, after all was said and done, this wasn't a bad day after all!     I'll continue to be mindful of the possibility of teething.