Help me please, I cant go on like this much longer.

[RACHPEM]

I am starting this new thread in the hope I can get some "fresh eyes" I have have had great support on my other thread howver I think they are at a loss now as am I, so I hope they dont mind me asking for some more help here.
Maya is 23 months, been a terrible sleeper and napper since birth.  The past 6months have been probably the worse, we have tried all ways and although her naps are much better , she wakes at 4.30 most mornings with no signs of going back to sleep. 
I have tried earlier bedtimes and they work for about a wk and then we are back to square one, so I am so mixed up now i dont know what she needs , icant wokr out if she needs less sleep than average or if it is OT.  Can someone point me in the right direction, I have been trying so many different things and as nothing is working i am losing heart, and feel like i am in a real mess, as i am not sure what i should even be trying.
I am so tired and feel such a failure as a mom, I dontknow how much more i can take, please help.
Btw this morning she woke at 4.30 did wi/wo for an hr and she fell asleep for another 30 mins, she took a super nap yesterday 2.5 hrs as she woke at 3am the previous morning and did not fall back to sleep until 5 for another 1hr and then had a long stretch til nap time which is why she is getting the longer naps as she is exhausted, but then i am not sure if this is interfering with night sleep.
Help, help, help.
rachale x

[RACHPEM]

Anyone, please?

[Zoey]

Hey there - BIG hugs for you, you're not a failure.

So she is almost 2, phew what a busy age!  Can you share her current routine as best you can please?  Like;

6am wake
12pm bla bla

How is she eating?  Does she have all her teeth yet?  Can you describe what you do to help prepare her for sleep?

Just need some more info.

You're not a failure.

[knackered]

Ok - I'll start the ball rolling!

What A time do you give her before her nap? I found with my DS that an A time that was too long before his nap made him wake earlier and earlier. At your LO's age, he could only do 5 or 5.5 hours of A time from wake up.

Anna xx

[samijoe]

yep im here too....let's see the routine.

[RACHPEM]

Thankyou for taking the time to answer.  Right here we go, Maya has always been an early riser, and has probably only woke at 6am or after for 1wk max every now and again.  Her reg time is 5am-5.30, nap time was falling at 11 which i know is still late but her naps were never longer than 1hr so it was hard to make it much later.  Now she is waking at 4.30 or earlier and most mornings will fall back to sleep after 1hr for approx 40 mins, average night sleep is rarely above 10.5 only very occasionally.  So we were doing bed at 6pm but obviously wake up was still early, I did this consitently and we had a good week of longer nights, did nothing different and wake up became earlier again.
I think she prob is teething as she is having a lot of SA too where normally she settles herself pretty well at night but at the mo she is putting up a huge fight, which i guess could indicate OT but she will not settle until 7ish even if i have her in bed by 5.45!
We have tried set times, that did not work, she just got less sleep and still woke the same times, that however was a while back and we have had a short burst of better wakes ups inbetween so I think she got over that OT stage.
I just am not sure what to do, as early nights still equate early mornings for us, and as i mentioned I do think she does not need quite as much sleep as most kids but still more than she is getting, plus we did early nights for ages without getting a later wake up, I did start to push out 10 min increments but we only got to about 20mins later before it all unravelled!
So I guess i need help to put this right and a plan of action, I cant do 4.30 anymore, 6am I would be more than happy with, so I am not asking the world.
I have just got myself in a real muddle as i dont know if i should be doing set times, A times, as her wakes ups are so unpredicatble this is where i keep going wrong i think keep changing things depending on her night sleep/wake times etc.
Also her naps have extended some days she will sleep 3hrs, and at one stage we were getting better nights but now longer naps seem to be hindering her sleep, i just need to get the balance right.
She eats very poorly imo, but some days she will eat for england so not sure if this is norm, she is on target with her weight.
Anyway if you can help me, i will love you forever!
Rachael x

[KathyM]

My ds was similar to your dd and I always worried about OT and because of that, I always ended up with an earlier bedtime - but that always led to an earlier wake-up time and round and round we'd go. So, what helped us in the end was a more set schedule and I worked backwards from wake-up. 

If she normally sleeps 10.5 hours at night, start at 6am and work backwards. For a 6am wakeup, her bedtime would be 7:30pm. That would mean nap would be somewhere about 12-1pm (hopefully for 2 hours). It took a couple days or maybe a week to sort it all out, but it did work. I stopped trying to compensate for short naps/early wake-ups with early bedtimes. If he didn't sleep a lot for nap, he must not have needed the sleep. If he woke early, same thing...nap was still same time. I can recall a few times I had to do nap a half hour early because he just couldn't make it, but I tried to stay as consistent as possible.

HTH

[samijoe]

i would personally, force two naps.

maybe

430 wake  *and yes, 6am would be better...i agree!  i can't even see at 430am!
5.0hrs A
930-10 nap
5.0hrs A
3-330 nap
aim for bedtime around 730pm



now, i'll admit that i do not know what you've tried in the past.....

but i would push for two really small naps, making bedtime later.....then hopefully it should all start to push forward on it's own.  the two naps should work until the ot passes....



hth
sami

[NiknLily]

just marking honey so I can keep up with things  

[RACHPEM]

Ok, just to throw a spanner in the works! She woke at 4.30 screaming so much that only a dolphin could possibly here her,lol (did not sound like a pain cry though just attention) I did give meds just on the err of caution, she did take an hr to go back off, she dropped back off at 5.30 and slept tol 6.15 called me once and fell back to sleep until 7.50 !!!!! so now what do i do today re naps and bed?
Btw she only napped 1.5 hours yesterday and was asleep by 6.45.

[samijoe]

hmm...i hope she isn't getting ill on you.

750am
go with 5hrs
1250-3 nap
730 bed


hth
sami

[Mama2boys]

marking

[KathyM]

I would also say 1pm for nap and 7:30pm for bed. This might be a great opportunity to try to shift her clock without her getting OT. Crossing my fingers for you!

[RACHPEM]

Hi Kathy, thanks for your advice, what would you do if she took a shorter nap or it was before 1pm, my mil has her today as i am at work so just wondered what you would do.  Cheersx

[KathyM]

If she takes a shorter nap, I might put her to bed a half hour sooner, but really, I would try to stay as consistent as possible. She's at an age now where she can set her body clock and consistency is the only way to do that. Obviously, everyone has an off day here and there, but for the most part, she should sleep at the same times every day.
If you think  your MIL will put her down earlier, call her and tell her not to. (Hopefully you have an understanding MIL  ) Tell her she needs to take a nap at 1pm because she woke up so late today.