Major issues- medical advice is not getting results and baby will not eat

[*~goldie~*]

Ok so my little one's nutrition has been an issue for over  4 months - here our time line ....


4m/o -solids were intoduced (im raising veggetarian with proteins from other sources) 

6m/o-breast started to be refused. Health visitor and I came up with plan to increase calcium supply through solids (yogurt cheese etc).included trip to docs to check for intolerances - negative result.

8m/o solids resistance. 2 hours to get a meal into her, wether it be sweet or savoury, spits out, wont open mouth, squirms etc also tastes finger foods then spits them out. Regular visits with health visitor and pediatric dietician - advice given is only allow 30 minutes per meal however they are not worried as she is overweight

9m/o completely gave up breast feeding as too time confuming to expess all the time to keep up supply just in case there would be a turn around in her behaviour, wont take milk in any form (formula) - from bottle, beaker or cup - luckily will take juice

10m/o further visits to HV and PD as I cant starve my baby! Only way of getting nutrients into her is to sit for a long long time and percevier - in half an hour Im lucky if she's had one teaspoon. She's still overweight so they are not cencerned. She shows no interestt in finger food - she puts it in her mouth to explore it then spits it out. Meal times last a long time and I do keep my cool (as I know my attitude is important), I try to eat with her too in case this is a mental thing.

So I dont feel I can follow the HV/PD advice of only allowing 30 mins at high chair as she'll get nothing. She's getting no calcium as now wont eat foods with calcuim. I try all different textutes - lumpy, pureed and completely solid. No luck. Some days she's gone without lunch but still is not hungry for dinner. My life is just impossible - feels like Im satfeeding her all day! My husband cant cope with it anymore and starts getting really angry at her evern thought Ive told him that will just cause negative associations. I try feeding in other places like if we go out but still none so its not a high chair thing

Is there something wrong with her? Are the medical professionals wrong to not investigate further just because she's overweight? Could there be a health problem? What are your opinions on only allowing 30 minutes at the high chair even though it means she'll starve. Do you have any food suggestions for her?

She's an angel sleeping and everything else but its like she's just NOT HUNGRY!!!! She doenst get grumpy at all if she hasnt eaten much and on a night afetr sometime 3 hours of trying to get her to eat and still not having any luck she still doenst NW. How can she not get hugry!!!



HELP!!!

xxx

[Shiv52]

So sorry you are so stressed.  Its an awful situation. 

I have worked with children who have refused to eat before I had my LO so can maybe offer some insight into the doctor/recommendations.  The reason they say to only do a half an hour feed is for several reasons:

1.  to stop the parent becoming frustrated
2.  to stop the child becoming frustrated
3.  to let the child see eating is just a part of the day and its not a bit deal either way if they eat or not 9to avoid aversion to eating/food in general


To maybe put your mind at rest, I have worked with 6 children in the last year before I had my LO(all over 3 years old though but same principals) and none of them have starved themselves.  It has been most stressful for the parents, the children don't seem to notice at all.


In order for the doctor/HV to suggest more tests (other than intolerance tests which they have already done with your LO?  or was that just calcium?) a child generally has to be losing weight or in lowest percentile for weight and there have to be obvious changes to energy levels for them to be overly concerned.  I have often found this shocking as parents are at their wits end and doctors seem so unconcerned to me which is why parents look else where for guidance.  I do think it is because though doctors know that babies will not starve themselves and if they are saying your LO is overweight they are probably thinking she'll use her stores of energy to get her through. 



What we did was come up with a plan for all food intake (drinks and solids) and work from there. 


If you can provide me with some more info I'll be glad to help.

Has your LO ever been assessed by the doctor for oral motor difficulites (problems with chewing etc-usually easily rectified)?
Has your LO been prescribed vitamins by the doctor (prob to be taken with her juice)?
What foods has she previously eaten before she started refusing?
When she refused foods did you offer an alternative? 
What is her exact age/weight?
How active is your LO?  Have you noticed she has less energy since stopping eating?
How often do you feed your LO each day?  What are you offering?  If she refuses do you offer alternatives?
Are you keeping a day by day record of food intake?
 

Sorry to bombard you for info.  Let me know if I can help. Even just to bounce some ideas off me. 

Siobhan x

[Shiv52]

The other one is:

does she attempt to feed herself with a spoon?

[*~goldie~*]

WOW !

Thank you so much! Yes it just feels that they won't take me seriously because of her weight. So glad you understand.
She was assesed for gluten intolerance I believe but that was a while ago now.

Has your LO ever been assessed by the doctor for oral motor difficulites (problems with chewing etc-usually easily rectified)? -nope

Has your LO been prescribed vitamins by the doctor (prob to be taken with her juice)? She has abidec multivits which the docs are aware of- the pediacric dieteican mentioned iron and calcium but she was too relctant to prescribe at this stage

What foods has she previously eaten before she started refusing? Everything you can think of we could brag how amazing she was and was so varied due to being vegetarian- wheat/oats, fruits, vegetable,tofu, beans, pulses,yoghurt (not eggs), rice, pasta

When she refused foods did you offer an alternative?  to begin with it was just a refusal to savoury foods so gave yogurts and fruts and then turned to all foods being refused so dont know what else to give as shes not taking milk

What is her exact age/weight? her age is 45 weeks and she is 9.6kg however I know she is very tall but the HV has never taken this into consideration when calculating weight

How active is your LO?  Very active, scoots about the place and we get out everyday

Have you noticed she has less energy since stopping eating? not really

How often do you feed your LO each day?  3 meals then beween 0-2 snacks dependant upon time already spent trying to feed

What are you offering? porridge/yogurt/fruit/toast at breakfast, vegetables/fruit/yogurt/sandwiches/rice/pulses/beans/pasta at lunch and dinner, snacks would be yogurt or fruit or biscuit

 If she refuses do you offer alternatives? no- what other alternatives are there?

Are you keeping a day by day record of food intake? Yes

Again thnak you so much
x

[*~goldie~*]

no she doenst try feed herself.
By the way when I say three meals - this is try to feed - not actually get eaten
x

[Shiv52]

Hi

Thanks for the info! 

To reassure you, your LO sounds like shes happy and healthy and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said 'she's just not hungry'!  Am sure that doesn't make you feel any better but it sounds like it!  If she is still sleeping and has good energy levels, she is probably not hungry. 

So I think you can stop worrying she's going to starve.  She won't.  She is a good weight and I have checked the charts in my red book-it seems she is in the 75th percentile for her weight (same as my LO-she's 9 1/2 months) but my HV said this was not overweight as she was in 75th percentile for height too.  And if you LO is tall too, then she is probably the right weight for her height as opposed to being overweight?  What length is she and I'll check for you?  The HV DEFINATELY should have took this in consideration.

That being said, regardless of height/weight and sleep etc I am surprised they are not concerned about your LO not drinking milk.  Milk should be giving babies most of their nutritional requirements until they are 1 year old.  On another thread another woman made a great comment about how solids are not the be all and end all, they are for getting babies used to eating and its not to worry if they aren't eating alot so let that reassure you on the solids front.  Which is why I'm surprised your doctor/HV hasn't been more concerned about milk intake. 



Do you try to give her any milk at all now?  Even from her sippy cup? 
When she did eat solids, how much would she have eaten? 
Where does she eat her meals now? 
Was the HV 's only suggestion about milk intake to supplement her calcium with yogurt/cheese?  And the paed dietician was reluctant to prescribe iron/calcium due to age?
Have they tested your LO's blood for iron levels etc?


Last questions, i promise and I'll help you come up with a plan.

[*~goldie~*]

I just figure- how can she not be hungry? I know in adults there are disorders which cause loss of appetite and unexplained weight gain but not sure if this could be present in a child - eg thyroid function etc.
I have the red book too, and atlanta is 78cm which is tall.
Yes the doc and HV were involved at the point milk started to be refused and they didnt seem to think it was a big problem as long as calcium was given through her solid diet- they said milk refusal was not uncomman. So I coped with that but now solids are refused too.

Do you try to give her any milk at all now?  Even from her sippy cup?  Yes - chilled / heated/ different brand formulas/ adult FF, cup, beaker and bottle. Also I will take a sip and then offer to her but no luck

When she did eat solids, how much would she have eaten?  probably a main course 6oz x3 then 2 desserts maybe 3oz then maybe a nibble on a biscuit or fruit as a snack, eg she would eat a jacket potato, half a large can of beans and grated cheese as a main followed by a dessert

Where does she eat her meals now?  In the highchair in the lounge/diner

Was the HV 's only suggestion about milk intake to supplement her calcium with yogurt/cheese?  This was the final resort to giving up yes

And the paed dietician was reluctant to prescribe iron/calcium due to age? Well I got the impression the problem hadnt been gpoing on long enough

Have they tested your LO's blood for iron levels etc? No the doc just had a good prod and examination

Thanks again
x

[binxyboo]

First of all, huge hugs to you. My second baby, Kate, had feeding aversion due to reflux pain, so I can understand some of what you are going through xx

For what it's worth, and I KNOW it is way easier said than done, but try not to worry. Kate is almost 14 months now and at this stage is really just starting to get into the hang of solids. I have a thread about our experience of her not wanting to eat solids, will look it up later so you can read the advice others gave me there. At your los age, she was not eating anything most days. Kate has thrived though, was obviously getting enough from nursing. We did end seeing a feeding specialist, who said her feed refusal was probably down to oral aversion from reflux, and that she would come good in her own time. And she did.

Some things that stick out at me from your post is that I really would limit the mealtimes. At her age, it really would not be neccessary for her to eat that many meals and snacks. We followed a pretty much babyled weaning approach, where she was offered fingerfoods to feed herself. This all happened at family mealtimes (I also have a toddler~wait, a preschooler, he is 3.5 now!). When mealtime for veryone was over, it was over for her as well. I think it would be extremely stressful all around to persevere for the amounts of time you are talking about. At that age, Kate had already started to walk and was eager to spend every waking moment practising her new skill. And even if she wasn't walking, I am sure she would not want to spend all her A time with a bowl of food in front of her. I would find it very stressful too. If you feel you are feeding her all day long, she must feel the same too, and may be at the point where she is so fed up with it all she can't even be bothered anymore kwim?

I would be concerned if she is not drinking milk though. How many oz does she drink in 24 hours? Can I ask why solids were introduced so early on?

I will post the link to my thread as soon as I find it xx

[binxyboo]

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=130575.0

[*~goldie~*]

hey there binxy,
Thanks for your words of wisdom,
My LOs never had relux but it sounds a pretty similar situation in that one day to the next shes not gettin any solids.
My LO does not have any milk at all but the medics have never been concerned by this. I offer it but just get a tantrum. I think it was ok as calcium was being added to solids and she was drinking juice.
I really hear what you and Shiv are saying about reducing feeding time as for her its all she does too, but if I just do the 30mins she has nothing and still wont get hungry. I managed to do 1 hour this lunch but a think I got about 3 teaspoons into her swallowed.
Solids were introduced early as in my area many babies are weaned at this age if they are a good size and she was showing interest in our foods like trying a bit of mashed food etc. Its just what the health visitor told me to do. She used to be an amazing eater! First went the milk and now the solids and we're just left with juice.
The medics just seem to believe its a phase but I guess a mothers first instinct is to feed her baby so its a big deal when you're the mum.
Will read your thread now, cheers
x
xxx

[Shiv52]

HOw many ounces of juice would you say she drinks in a day?

[JennŠ]

Dropping off some hugs for now.  Will do some thinking.

[*~goldie~*]

shiv - between 12 and 18oz
jenn thanks luv, all input will be appreciated
x

[Peek-a-boo]

{{{Hugs}}}  That sounds really frustrating.  I wonder if that quantity of juice could be satiating her thirst and providing enough calories to divert her from the more nutrient-dense, but less-sweet milk?

TBH, I'd stop all juice and offer only water and milk to drink.  I might start gradually by diluting the juice in greater percentages over the course of a few days/weeks.

I think there are other wiser folks here though, so I'm interested to hear what they advise. 

[Shiv52]

Hi Jenn

My monster has got up from her nap and is scuttling about.  I'm having a good think about your LO and will get back to you in a bit.  Be interested what others have to say too. 

Siobhan x