Author Topic: please give me some hope!  (Read 4815 times)

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Offline *Becky*

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please give me some hope!
« on: June 23, 2009, 18:04:33 pm »
Hi,
I am getting some help over on EASY but naps are the problem and always have been. My DS is such a hard one to figure out. I have read the book, I know what I am aiming for, I can give advice but can I work out my LO's naps...no. He is 8 months next week and has always been a bad napper despite me staying in and working hard at this since I found out about BW at around 4 months. He was touchy but is now more spirited I think. A great night sleeper and independent to sleep so the only thing if I am really desparate that will work is the car but tbh that is not what it used to be, fine for the odd half hour but that is it these days. I know there is a lot to be pleased about and I would rather have good nights than good days if I had to choose one but I am very disheartened with it all and just wondered if anyone else had a similar bub or had been through this.
Generally he sleeps 11-12 hours at night and goes down at 6.30pm. The first nap of the day if I am lucky is 1.20 and then after that they are usually 35 mins, longer if I am very lucky. I have tried shortening and lengthening but I just don't know what the underlying problem is. The little guy has bags under his eyes now and I really need to sort it out. He is a very fussy baby and high need so I do need a break during the day occasionally!
Looking for help.
Becky x




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Offline becky1969

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 14:29:55 pm »
Aw Becky, hugs my dear.  Naps are not only important for baby but they are such a necessary respite for us too! So if you've been struggling with naps all this time you must just be burned out! Let's try to fix this, OK?

First, can you please post your routine in EAS format, and then also try to give me a little info as to his demeanor.  So, something like this:

Awake 6:30 (seems happy)
E 6:45 (BF and solids)
A: Playing on blanket, running errands, (in other words, try to give me an idea of what activities he's doing)
9:30 try to put down for nap, no go -- cries, fusses

A: more description of activities
E 11:00 (BF and solids)
A more description of activities

S: 1:20-1:50 (fell asleep in 5 minutes, cried when woke up)

etc. etc. etc.  As much detail as you can give will help.


Also, describe your wind down for me and the sleep conditions: e.g. dark room wtih blackout curtains, sleep sack and diaper, white noise, etc.

Then we'll get to work!
Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 18:52:48 pm »
ok...here goes. (thanks for the help btw!)
This is a usual day.
Awake at 6am - happy in cot until 6.20am
E - 6.30am - solids at 7.30am
A - everything! play with his toys with me although nothing massively interests him. Books, rhymes, walking in garden or down the lane in my arms.
S - 8.30 - 9.30/45am (does vary. As little as 35 mins but usually an hour and sometimes 1.20) Usually wakes happy from this nap.
A - usually go out to shops or play date.
E - 10.30am - solids at 12pm
S - 12.30/45 - usually 35 min nap but occasionally get a resettle and then 1.30-1.40 but this is v rare. Often wakes unhappy from this although cheers up once up briefly.
A - usually go out either for a walk in the buggy or a visit to a farm, shops, swim etc.
E - 2.30pm
S - catnap around 4.30pm for 20-50 mins depending on the lunch sleep. I APOP this in the car and always have done.
E - 5pm - solids
S - after bath and milk 6.15-6.30pm

Goes down like a dream at night and generally sleeps 11-12 hours. Cannot put him down later at night as too tired from bad lunch nap and cannot get rid of catnap as lunch nap is poor.

He is in a room with blackout blinds and curtains over the top but it is not pitch black at all. He sleeps in a sleeping bag. My wind down is short. I try to do a quiet book downsatirs before taking him up to bed and we sit on the floor of his nursery. We look at the same books every time and then I stand up, give him a cuddle and put him in the bed. It is short as he was very touchy and hated any kind of fuss. He is a little better now. He is an extremely alert boy and very very fussy and always has been. I get no more than 2-5 mins of him being on his own with an activity and that is in full view of me and with me talking. We go out a lot in the buggy as that keeps him happy but it is so tiring for me!!! Don't mind if it keeps him quiet though. I have just ordered the Dr Sears book about fussy babies and the one about raising spirited kids!!! I think DH and I give him lots of attention but he still fusses constantly if we are not with him 100%. He is not that bothered about toys  - just wants human attention. Basically I do anyhting to get out of the house so he is not whining!
He is teething but I don't think that si the reason for the short lunch nap as tbh he has always been like this. His first nap used to be around 1.5-2 hours and so a part of me thought that it was too long and so he was not needing the lunch sleep but it has shortened now and the lunch sleep is still the same.

Help......

Thanks :)

Becky x




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 18:55:38 pm »
meant to say - APOP apart from car for half an hour is impossible. The amount of times I have been told to take him in the buggy or rock him or put him in a friends bedroom. Drives me crazy. He will not sleep on me or hubby or anywhere apart from bed or car if desparate. I know it is good but actually for going out and about it is a nightmare!!!

bx




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Offline becky1969

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 22:30:50 pm »
You sound like you have a classic Touchy child.  When he's a bit older and if he still shows touchy tendencies I *highly* recommend the book "The Highly Sensitive Child" by Elaine Aron.  In fact, you may just want to check that book out from the library now as I do believe she addresses babies in the book.  Touchies take in *too* much information -- EVERYTHING has equal importance to their senses which as you can imagine is quickly overwhelming! Imagine if the washing machine in the background, the cars whooshing outside your window and your DH talking to you were all equal in importance to your ears.  Prety soon *you'd* be crying too! LOL!  So, the main thing with touchies like this is to make their environment as simple as possible.  While awake, only 1 toy at a time and minimize interaction with light/sound toys.  It's best to let them just sit in a high chair and look out the window for example, or give them a basket with (safe) items from the outdoors to touch and feel at their own pace.  It's absolutely normal for him not to show interest in anything for more than 5 minutes.  This attention span will slowly lengthen a little bit each month.  You probably won't see an appreciable difference in attention span until around 18 months, so for now just do your best to give him calm things to do/see.  Sometimes even books can be overwhelming to Touchies so really honor his cues -- if you see him bury his head in your chest or turn his face away, stop what you're doing! He's overwhelmed.


Now for the routine!

Your first nap may be a tad too early which is why it's sort of up for grabs whether it's a longish or shortish nap.  At this age 3 hours is a pretty good A time so I might slowly lengthen A1 to 3 hours and see if that makes the nap more consistent.  Especially after a good solid night's sleep he may be able to handle more A time.

Now A2 I'm not sure.  Looks like you're doing 3 hours.  A 35 minute nap at my house was always UT, and since you only occasionally get him to resettle I suspect that may be what's up.  So I might try extending to 3h15 (again, slowly!) and see how that works for him.  Now, if he's seems super exhausted by 3 hours then that means he's OT so in that case let's back up to 2h45.  I can't tell you for sure whether nap2 is short from being OT or UT because the 2 can often look very similar.  So some of it is instinct, some of it is experimentation.  Whichever way you choose to go (longer or shorter A time) stick wtih it for 3 days before deciding it's not working.  Touchies esp. need some time to get use to changes in A time b/c they are just so super sensitive to shifts in their routine.


We usually drop cat naps at around 6 or 7 months old, so that is going to be our goal.  If we can get nap #2 to be 1.5 hours or more than that will work! If not, then I supposed we need to keep cat nap.  The fact that he's so tired by bedtime tells me that your little guy is overwhelmed by his day and that's something you're going to want to keep in mind for future: A times will probably get progressively SHORTER as the day goes on, rather than LONGER like it does for the majority of kids.  My LO is that way too (he's also a touchy!) and even at age 3.5 he can only handle about 4-4.5 hours A time post nap even tho he can do as much as 6 pre-nap.


so, let's play around a bit! Lengthen A1 by 15 minutes, either lengthen or shorten A2 by 15 minutes depending on your mommy instincts, and then we'll see if we can't get that cat nap to hit the road which I actually think will make the last A of the day go better.  Touchies can get pretty grumpy with a short sleep like that -- it's not enough to feel rested and so they wake up feeling disoriented and irritated.

Hope that helps! I have a Touchy as well and let me tell you these children are a gift.  They are SO observant, nothing escapes their attention! As he gets older you will marvel at the things he notices.  My son wakes up every morning and before he enters the Family Room he does a little mental catalogue to see what is different.  One book out of the 50 we keep in there is moved and he notices!  ;D 

Unfortunately, this means they can be a bit difficult to understand before they talk, so it takes a really observant parent to see what works for them sleep wise.   This means it is time to take an inventory of his sleep situation and decide if there's anything that might make him uncomfortable.  In our household my DH is a natural at this b/c he is also a Sensitive person (there's also a book by that some author above about Highly Sensitive People (adults) that you can check out; she also has a website and you can see if you or your DH qualify!).  At any rate, you or DH or both should just look at how LO sleeps and if anything could be bothering/disrupting him during the day.  Possibilities:

1) Too hot/cold.  Solution: more or less clothing, heather or a/c to make temp constant

2) Too much light. Solution: blackout curtains

3) Fabric too itchy/tags bothering him. Solution make sure all tags removed and only soft clothing next to skin while sleeping or naked

4) Household sounds too loud.  Solution: white noise!



Those are just some ideas so just put yourself in his skin and see what you come up with!

Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!

Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 07:53:15 am »
thanks for the advice Becky, I really appreciate it. A lot of what you have said rings very true in our house.
I  am at my wits end at the moment really as I feel he should be doing around 3 hours first thing and then 3 15 like you said, that has been my gut feeling for a while but the fussing is UNBEARABLE! We do not have that many toys really but I do try various different things with him. Maybe I should put everything away and just play with one thing for a while but he will look at it for about 1 min, 2 if I am lucky and then fuss. Hmmm? After about 2.35 today he was rubbing his eyes and so we changed the scene and then I did wond down and he was in bed after 2.40. He talked for about 5 mins.
I am sure we go up too soon but there is only so much fussing I can take. I have been up with him all that time and 100% focused on him. No breakfast so am starving...sorry to moan but surely there is a happy medium between leaving your child alone a lot and being their entertainer 24/7. I would not mind in the slightest if he was happy but jeez it is enough to send anyone a little crazy.
The second A time is easier to extend I think. We always do 3 hours now so I will see today. If no signals I will try a little longer.
Yes he is super sensitive. Often cries when something new i.e. swimming although now LOVES it and is so happy in the water. Dogs barking or loud noises, even me coughing or sneezing upset him so I try very hard to keep things as quiet as I can. He is our first child so the house is not that noisy.
I will keep you posted.
bx




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 12:10:22 pm »
so this is today so far...
Awake at 6am
Sleep - 8.40am - fell asleep quickly.

Awake at 9.40am
Asleep - was in bed after 3.10 of A time and talked for 10 mins before falling asleep. Does this mean I should be aiming for 3.20 in the middle of the day?

Also - if you see this soon...not sure what to do after this nap. I guess he will still need a catnap but I cannot do it before 3 hours A time as he will not take it...tricky. I guess if he wakes after an hour he will def still need a catnap and if he manages a 1.5-2 hour sleep he may be able to do early bedtime although that will be 3.5 hours A time. I find this tricky!

Becky x




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2009, 13:40:57 pm »
an update...after thinking he was maybe OT when I put him to bed for the lunch nap he has slept for 1.40 so far and still going. :) Seems like he needs more A time in the middle of the day. Have decided to just do 2 naps today I think and try for 6/6.15pm bedtime. Doing a CN will be so hard. Hope you think this is ok.
Becky x




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Offline becky1969

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2009, 13:53:29 pm »
Perfect! We want to drop that catnap!

Now, tell me more about this fussying.  An 8 month old shouldn't be colicky! So, when does the fussing start? Is it constant? Be very specific -- if he's not fussy before eating but seems to be fussy afterwards I need to know that, or if you find he's fussy the last half hour for nap or whatever.

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2009, 17:10:33 pm »
No he is fussy pretty much the whole time. Even today when swimming, when he was actually swimming he was in heaven and no fussing, so happy :) Apart from that it is general. I do not notice much difference in before or after feeds. The only time he is quiet is if he is in the buggy and it is moving or in my arms and moving. Apparently he is an angel with my parents :) he is def worse with me than anyone else. Great - makes me feel so great!
So we did the 2 naps and I had him in bed for 6pm. Bit worried he is OT as he cried as he went into bed which he never does and was madly rubbing his eyes but hey ho if it is a disaster we will just go back to 3 naps.
A bit over it all today. Yes he napped well but jeez he is so exhausting.
Becky




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Offline becky1969

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2009, 21:48:14 pm »
Is he less fussy when you're holding him or have him in a sling?
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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2009, 09:20:37 am »
yes if i am holding him he is better and if I am holding him and walking he is veryhappy :)




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2009, 13:01:02 pm »
ok so an update. I am thinking that the reason we have never got to good naps is due to the fact that he may have a big difference in what A time he can do first thing and the A time second part of the day...today he woke at 5.50am which seeing as he was asleep by 6.05 last night was not bad. Way too early in an ideal world but hey I can live with it for the moment.
My DH got up with him so I could try and have a rest. When I came down he was starting to be a bit fussy and he carried on like this until I just decided to take him to bed. My DH was unsure as he knows we are trying to move towards 3 hours A time but he was just TOO fussy so bed it was after 2.40 A time and he slept for 1.5 hours so could not have been that UT.
Anyway the next A time has been 3.20. I decided to try this as that is when he fell asleep yesterday and had the great 2 hour nap ... so we shall see. I ahve always been trying to push the first nap and then only do about 10 mins more for the second nap. Maybe he just likes 2.30/40 for the first and a bigger A time of around 3.20 for the second? Quite excited that we may finally have hit on something but don;'t want to get too ahead of myself :)
Will let you know.
Becky x




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Offline *Becky*

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2009, 13:18:07 pm »
spoke too soon - 50 min nap!




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Offline becky1969

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Re: please give me some hope!
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2009, 15:14:04 pm »
Well, you still might be on to something! Back down to 3h10 for 2nd A and see how that goes.  I hope you see improvement in the fussies once he gets some sleep in him!

Owen, 12/28/05 7 lb 2 oz

Enjoying the toddler years!