10 month old - never slept independantly

[jacsmummy]

Hi, there are big smiles from us here I am so glad to report! 
I started Jac's new routine which involved no more grabbing and running back to my bed on Friday & it is working a treat. I decided after reading all the posts that I would go to him rather than bringing him to us.
I have been trying to establish new sleep associations between him & his cot, which I have been backing up with a close eye on his mood and the length of time he's been awake. I was actually getting in his cot with him (which is something to see I'm sure as he's huge and I'm no little bird) but gradually trying it each time I put him down, I try to stay out..and this also has worked...especially during the day.
I can't believe the difference in his mood...he is sooooo happy for getting the sleep he needs...I feel bad for letting him get that tired, but I simply couldn't see the wood for the trees as they say.? 

I have been taking things slowly because of his age and temperament, and because I need to see things working properly before I move onto the next step...but I am so excited and happy with the progress we've made,,,,and I simply wouldn't or couldn't have done it without the support and ideas I read on here and had from Brodiesmummy! 

I feel like we hit an all time low that basically forced me into taking action...and I think why didn't I get my act together sooner...but you have to hit the bottom sometimes before you can start going back up the other side?? 

I appreciate we may digress at some point but, we basically are going forward from where we were so all is good.. I now give him his bottle, burp him and put him down and gently hold him and sing to him....I was so proud though because for the first night starting on Saturday he actually woke and resettled himself several times through the night...which is unheard of in our house til now?

He is still waking properly once a night around 2am as he has done for ages, so it's probably a habit that I need to break,,,having said that he nearly always does a poo...so is there anything I can do about his or do I wait until this phase moves on? bit unsure of this, but still after I've sorted him out and usually had another bottle he goes off again until when he wakes for good around 6am?

I would like to cut the bottle out at this time, I do try to settle him without it, but he does seem to really want it....I could to increase his food during the day...he's particularly difficult to feed at tea time,,,, so the chances are he is hungry.... I will try to feed him an early tea for a day or two perhaps even as early as 3.30pm as even by 4.30pm he's too busy and uninterested to eat?

But I cannot emphasize enough how pleased I am with the progress we've made,,,and our house is just such a lovely place to be with a happy little chappy zipping around all chirpy!
Thank you all...I will keep you posted 

[Mashi]

WOW!   Sounds like you have been doing an awesome job!  I'm really happy to hear - you sound like you are feeling much better about things and I am glad your LO is doing really well!   Congratulations on the progress you have made so far. If things get tough again remember how much progress you made in a short time and hold on to the feeling of KNOWING that you can do it!!!

For cutting out the bottle, I would try dropping an ounce from it every three or four days.  Try to offer that much extra during the day as well, although it may take him a few days before he realises he should eat/drink that little bit more in the day because it won't be there at night.    My instinct is that once he stops eating in the night and getting all of his food in a daytime period, his bowel movements will start to change their patterns as well...but otherwise, there isn't really much you can do about it. 

[A pair of Charlies]

That is great great GREEEAAATTTTTTT news!!!  Well done to you both!!

There may be regression after 3 days or so. If there is, it's a bit of a judgement call. I went back a step eachtime and then upped us to where we had got to a day later and then continued progressing with our plan. We still get bouts of regression now, and we're usually back to normal reasonably quickly. I go back a step simply because I found with my DS that things seemed to get worse quickly if I didn't - he seemed to need the reassurance. All babes are different.

You may not get any regression at all.

I think Mashi's on to something with the BM and night bottle. What's your EASY routine looking like - wondering if there's any small changes that might help with his gusto for supper? I had to drop early afternoon milk and snacks in order to get my DS to eat supper. He happily stocks himself up during the first part of the day so by supper he's not interested... until 9pm ish.  So, he just has breakfast, lunch and supper now - and that seems to work for us. So far... 

HTH

Charlotte

[Tweakster]

Yay what a success!  I want to echo what has been said about regression, it happens and messes with our heads :-)  But just pop back on here and then you can tackle anything that he throws at you - some days it's a bit like boot camp or combat.  And other days it's just like awww look at him sleeping - he's such a little button ;-)  Enjoy the nice calm singing bedtime!!!

[jacsmummy]

Hi, we had a bit of a regression last night but fully expected it at some point ...and after a little extra time he was back off to sleep again...he seemed really quite angry with me ...which was odd being repremanded by a 10month old cub, but as you all said he did have a bit of a wobble...
With regards to eating I always start the day first off before anything with breakfast....some times he's interested and sometimes not-this is definately down to whatever he's had through the night...it's so hard to get out of the cycle of hunger..needing a bottle...which puts him off his next meal...etc, but generally he will always have some toast...a firm favourite.
Then he has a sleep about 2.5hrs (no later) after he first wakes, has a play/walk etc and then lunch dead on 12pm and then he likes another bottle just before his next sleep around 1pm. He's been sleeping until 2pm ish then playing etc until tea. I am thinking of cutting out any snacks and giving him tea about 3.30pm so then when he's showing signs of wanting to get ready to sleep at anywhere after 5pm I can start the wind down and give him his bedtime bottle.?

Last night he had a good tea, because he was quite calm and not too OT, and his bm's were a couple of hours later than normal...so it's did effect him...He really wakes up when he needs to go and wants his bottle...has anyone ever heard of a baby that needs a bottle in order to go? Do they get associations for this? He always used to go when he was in his highchair, but has stopped that?..

[Mashi]

For a loooooooooong time my son only pooped when he was having his bottle!  He changed when his bottles dropped and he was onto more solids, somewhere around 9-10 months. He does definitely still poop in relation to his meals though - always sometime after first bottle in the morning, shortly after lunch, and then either after dinner or after bedtime bottle.   Food does set your bowels moving, so I suppose it's not that unusual.  I do think that as he gets more used to not eating in the night, he'll probably eventually stop pooping in the night? 

[jacsmummy]

Thanks, I wasn't sure if he was asking for the bottle to do it or doing it because he was having a bottle if you see what I mean???...But yes I definately agree i need to get out of bottle feeding overnight...Thanks again for your support.

[Tweakster]

Yeah agree with Mashi, the doc told us it is quite normal for them to go while or just after eating.  The eating, sucking, etc. gets the bowels moving.  I think about when we have a big meal or something...quite often we go just after eating.  Biology eh.

Our DS used to do that...now he's more once a day, in the morning like clockwork.  When we change up what he eats I am sure the patterns will change though.

[~Emma~]

 Just dropping off some hugs Vick! 

[A pair of Charlies]

My DS was a regular post meal pooper. Usually around 10 - 20 mins after eating. And still is a little like that, but not EVERY meal now. Thankfully.

But he does have to be standing. He certainly won't do it when sleeping (didn't ever I don't think). So that might the bottle thing - he needs to get up because he needs to go.

It might sound weird, but what I feed my DS throughout the day is designed to get him pooped out by bedtime. So with his breakfast, he has fruit that gets him moving. Lunch is followed with fruit and / or a smoothie that will get the job done. If the no2 has remained elusive all day, I'll give him currants or something after supper to try and kick start some action before bath and bed - but usually the smoothie (orange based) gets things going. It is my secret weapon.    For that reason, I have a no smoothie at supper time rule in case it upsets bedtime with a poop-a-thon.

[jacsmummy]

That's really interesting, bc I have noticed different foods having different effects...like sweet potato always makes his movements much more sluggish...and Weatabix gets things going well...so if I give him things that make it happen for breaky, a little more at lunch and then something more stodgey for tea it may help him stop being woken by the bm's. I think that toast and porridge have been slowing things down during the day.
He always has to sit up when he wants to go, and I know he needs one bc he does this cute little chirp that sounds like he's asking a question...you know like going up in tone at the end of the sound...?
Having fruit does tend to really gripe him, but he does like it...is it ok to give them things like mandarin segments,,,say one or two at a time? When you do a smoothie how do you give it to your LO? in a sippy cup, and is it say carrot, apple & strawberry (or something similar)done in a home smoothie maker?  I could put a bit of yoghurt in & do this for breakfast? - sorry lots of questions there?
I think also that I should really try to cut out the daytime bottle in order to increase the teatime appitite?  He's been a bit off colour-teeth I think for a while and seems to have really regressed back on to his bottle and right away from food...it's driving me mad bc it seems to be a vicious circle that I can't break....If I could get the daytime feeds right I'm sure that would have a really positive impact on his sleeping...which he has been so good with...despite minor hitches as expected but I am so chuffed with him!

thanks so much for all your help....I can't tell you guys how much this has helped and also given me back my sanity...

[Mashi]

Sweet potato is much more binding than a whole gran fibre rich food like weetabix, so definitely that will help.  I make sure my LO gets two good servings of fruit and attempt two servings at veg every day - the fruit goes down well, the veg ends up on the floor

Mandarin segments have always been a HUGE treat in our house.  DS goes mad, I mean truly insane when he sees them.  They DO get him going though!  So do kiwi - lots of fibre and vit c in them to get things chugging.  Good for breakfast time as Charlotte said to get his bowels started early rather than later in the day.

Not sure where you are at right now with bottles and solids, but at ten months my DS was doing roughly what the other 10month olds were doing at the time, so probably an "average" -- full bottle at waking, then breakfast solids.  Lunch, 1/2 bottle after wards, then an afternoon snack to tide him over to dinner.  Dinner, then full bottle before bed.   With the lunch time bottle I was pretty insistent at that time that he take 4 oz because he was milk allergic so couldn't boost his dairy in any other way, but by 10 months many others had stopped the lunch bottle as well.  I dropped it at 11.5 months.  Lots of water offered through the day as well.  I often kept a sippy of water lying around the play area so he could have when he wanted.

I never did smoothies, despite owning a lovely dust collecting smoothie maker 

Either way, I would say cut down the night time feeds gradually, but as much as you think he can handle at once. If that's not an oxymoron!  Cut an ounce or two every few nights, offer him more in the day and eventually he WILL start to take it. Perhaps yes, cut the day time bottle, offer him water first to get rid of his thirst, and then his milk shortly after so he will only take it if he's hungry, not just for thirst?  Then a good full bottle of milk before bed to tide him through the night?

[jacsmummy]

Excellent...he's having a bottle after his breakfast or he won't touch any solids...then a nap. Lunch at noon, then a bottle after....then another nap. Then tea, a bath & wind-down & a bottle & bed by about 6pm.
He didn't ask for a bottle at all last night which is a major breakthrough I'm hoping...he sttled with comfort from me, bc he has had a good breakfast this morning I'm hoping we can get out of that cycle & onto the right track??
He is really good for drinking water from his sippy cup, so I offer him it throughout the day.
According to the hv he should only be on two bottles per day, but he's such a big boy if he should start to go through the night then I'd have thought the three he is having should be ok,,,so long as he's taking proper meals?
 ;Dxx

[Mashi]

Argh,  I hate when HVs say he "SHOULD" be on x number of bottles, because it really doesn't take the individual child into account. Sometime in the next while he will probably drop down to two, at around 12 months or so I would suspect. As he nears closer to one, solids start taking more importance, but until he's one, his milk is still giving him most of his nutrition and whatnots.  I don't think that still being on 3 bottles a day is "wrong" for a 10 month old. 

I would continue with your own plan - gradually cut out that night feed (although looks like it may have already happened!!!!) and work to getting all of his milk in during the day.  Aim for two good milk feeds in the day (morning and before bed seems to be the most common that people do, but if your LO wants midday and bed or breakfast and lunch, or whatever, then work it out what ever is best for the both of you!) and if he wants a third milk feed then I would let him have it.  Also aim for three good solid meals (bkfst, lunch, dinner) and he will probably move to adding a snack in there (maybe slowly replacing the milk) over the next while.   

Does that help at all?

Can I also just say that I am sooo amazed by what you have done in such a short time!  I think you should be pretty happy with yourself for how hard you have worked to get this far, and even more so that you have done it all so very quickly. I hope you can see that, and that others close to you and your LO can also see it!! 

[jacsmummy]

Thank you Mashi...I couldn't have done it without the support of all you brilliant & kind ladies!!

I am so pleased with it all...the set backs are manageable when you know that you are on the right track!

My Mum has been away for a week & I can't wait to see what she thinks-he is sooo much more settled...it's like a double whammy bc he's more settled bc he's sleeping, he's easier to deal with, and bc we are getting better sleep, I am better prepared to look after him & keep things consistant for him....I just hope we can keep things consistant when I work 3 days a week??

Again thank you...all of thew posts have been so helpful...we are getting there...& I am enjoying my LO so much more bc I have a new found confidence & serenity!!! Xx