Anyone Want to Talk about the 2-1 Transition? Thread #10

[Tweakster]

Yeah I have just decided I am done with the early bedtimes, they have worked in the past but at this age...it just means another EW tomorrow if he goes to bed early.  It's not a realistic bedtime anymore for us, he's going to daycare soon enough, I won't be picking him up until near 6 p.m. anyway. Then I have to get him home, feed, bath etc. 

So putting him to bed at 7 we stand half a chance of him either going back to sleep at an EW or getting him back to sleep at an EW.  Otherwise after an early bedtime he's just too rested and wants to be up.  So I will poke him if I have to or whatever, he's not going into that crib until 7.  And then I hope that somewhere along the line he will just realize 'hey if I want more sleep I should just do it at night'.  Bodies are smart and routine makes things predictable so I do think this is the way forward.

[gavinsmum1]

Things are really mucky around here.  Jesse put all his skills together and pulled a pm nap refusal for the first time ever.  We were doing this until yesterday.
Wake 6:15 ish
Nap around 10 for 30- 40 minutes (depending on how early his wake-up ws)
nap 2-3:15 ish
bedtime 7:15

Yesterday went like this:
wake- I think it was just before 7, but he may have been up earlier, fallen back asleep and then I noticed he was awake when I was getting up
nap 10:30-11:00  took ages to fall asleep.  Was in bed at 10:00, though.
nap 3:05- 3:40 He refused it in his crib (just learned how to pull himself up, so that was the trick of the day), so I woke up his brother who was due to be up soon anyway and we headed for an APOP nap in the car.  He was not having that nap in his crib.
Bedtime- 7:30 after 30 min of PD.

Awful.  The day before he had had a wonderful 12 hour night and I chickened out on trying one nap.  Now he's OT and fighting naps and EW!!!!! AHHHHHHH!

[mdavza]

Hi all!  I had one 7-7 night of sleep, and that day he napped 1,5 in morning and 1,5 in afternoon.  the next day I should have sticked to that, but I enjoyed the free time too much, oh bay, was I sorry that night!  But I'm doing WI/WO with him and it seems to be working (touch wood) because he settled after one tuck-in the next morning, at 5am.  And the the cold of all colds got ahold of him, and today he is sleeping pretty much as much as he likes.  Sigh. 
Are any of you doing WI/WO?

[Tweakster]

Hi there, Finn doesn't really respond to WI/WO.  He used to but now he's just either sleeping or he's not sleeping.  No amount of GW or WI/WO helps him, I think it's more for me so I know we're not letting him CIO lol.

3 hours was probably a tad too much sleep for your LO - although if he has a cold he needs sleep period. 

Since cutting back our AM nap again, we have a good nap over the lunch hour 12 - 2 or 2:30 and a 7 bedtime.  It's a long day for him but it seems to have curbed the EW until they appear again. 

We *almost* had a 12 hour night last night...asleep between 6:45 - 7 and up at 6:30.  It was wonderful.  May it happen again one day lol

[Tao]

Hello All,

So glad that there is this thread to help me!! Now I realize I'm not alone.

My DD is 9.5 months old and when she turned 9 months she suddenly started PM nap refusal. She napped perfectly in the a.m. anywhere from 1.5 hours to 2 hours so I would usually let her nap, but then no amount of PM A time would get her to nap. She would act calm, be put in the crib awake and then scream for 10 minutes follow by play time in her crib.

Our routine looked like this:

6:00 a.m. Wake
9:30-11:00 Nap 1
2/2:30 Nap 2 (which she would refuse most days and then suddenly go down and nap one day and then back to refusing for two days.)
6:00 p.m. bed time (goes down easily)

I had no idea what was going on until Wendy gave me great advice about her needing less a.m. sleep to help her go down for p.m. So today, we tried this:

6:00 a.m. Wake
9:30-10:30 Sleep
1:35 Put her down for nap but she cried and played again. My husband is now getting her after waiting 30 minutes for her to try to sleep. She is one of those babies who will either sleep or not sleep. It's VERY hard to get her to extend a nap if she doesn't want it.

My question is:

* Does this mean that 1 hour is still too much A.M. or maybe she is OT with 3 hours A time? Should i keep trying a few more days before decreasing morning nap some more?
* Has anyone else ever had to try something new like this for a few days before your LO took to it?

Thanks and I appreciate any insight you can share!

Christine

[Tweakster]

Hi there Christine...it's quiet on here hehe.  I think a lot of mums moved over to Toddler sleep board now.

It could be several things...
1)  It could be that she needs less than 1 hour nap, try 50 mins or even 45 mins if you are brave
2)  It could be that the A time in between is wrong...did you get the impression that she was OT or UT at that second nap?  It sounds to me like UT if she was playing and happy...but every LO is different
3)  Some mums find that 3 hours A time in the AM leaves them better rested after a short nap IYSWIM, so then you can push out that middle A time a bit...
4)  Yes you do need to give it a few days at this age...sometimes up to a week before you can say it's really not working.

What's happening today?

[Tao]

Hi Wendy,

It is a little quiet here. Thanks for moving over here to help me =). You are sweet! Today is the third day she has refused her nap despite the 1 hour a.m. nap.  Today looked like this:

6:00 Wake
9:45-10:45 Nap
1:50 attempted second nap (she cried for a bit and then just sat and played until I got her at 2:20 because she wouldn't go down).
6:00 BT

Yesterday we had the same schedule. I know this is probably out there but could it at all be possible that she may be ready for 1 nap at 9 months and 3 weeks? I'm thinking probably not but the only reason why I ask is because she really doesn't seem OT after NO p.m. nap before BT. She has been "knock on wood" going down right away and easily for BT and then waking once or twice a night which she normally does to eat for 10 minutes and then goes right back down.

Now, it may be, like you stated before that with a FEW more days of only 1 nap, she might eventually get OT. I'm just wondering if you have ever heard of any LOs transitioning so early. I have been waking her every morning after a 1 hour nap but I know she would sleep longer if she let me and she never has trouble with her a.m. nap.

Just wondering! Thanks so much!!

[jenniewren]

I found that I had to cut my lo's nap to 45 minutes before he'd stop refusing his pm nap so maybe it's worth cutting it back again? It's a fine balance though - I cut it to 30 mins for a couple of days & then got a 40 min pm nap every time so that was too far...

It's so tempting to just cut your losses and go for 1 nap though isn't it?! I struggle with having to juggle everything so finely as I'd rather just have a set routine etc - tend to get a bit obsessive!  But having listened to the ladies advice on here I'm sticking with the short am long pm for as long as I can. We had several days over christmas where he had only one nap cos of refusal or being away etc & then had some rough nights and EW in early Jan, so he just isn't ready yet.

Jenx

[jenniewren]

Hi my lo is roughly on this routine

6am wake
9.15-10am sleep
1.30-2.30 sleep
6.45 asleep

This am he woke at 6.40am and is currently refusing his am nap - usually will go down at 3hr-3hr 15 quite easily but is resisting this am. Where do I go from here? I don't really want to push it later as that pushes the pm nap later, and he is more and more difficult to get down for naps as the day goes on.

Any suggestions?

Jenx

[Tweakster]

Jennie you may find that he flip flops between 1 nap days and 2 nap days as he continues the transition.  Finn is currently also fighting his AM nap as I type lol.  But last night he slept 11 hours solidly (well at least we think it was solid hehe) and as a result he isn't into his nap today. 

They just like to keep us on our toes. 

Other than offering him the nap at the time you want him to take it OR pushing the nap later in the AM, there's not much else you can do.  Or what if you pushed it a bit later BUT shortened the nap i.e. instead of 45 do 40 or 30 mins?  Would he do a longer PM nap for you?

@Christine - I think you need to cut more if she's still refusing...try 50 mins...and then 45...it's all trial and error at this stage.

[jenniewren]

Well William is now refusing his pm nap! I woke him after 45 minutes this am, and he's now playing in his cot again... I think I should have gone for a 1 nap day although he had one of those yesterday at the childminders (slept 1hr 10 mins woohoo!) so I was a bit hesitant to do 2 in a row. Maybe he's more ready than I think...

I wonder if it's because he's had almost 12 hour nights the last 3 nights - usually 11 or just under - so maybe he's just too rested like Finn!

He might do a longer pm nap if I shortened it, but so far 30 min am naps have resulted in 40 min pm naps unless we've gone for a drive. I must confess also it's much better for him to have got his am sleep over with by 10-10.15am cos then we can go out and about to toddler groups... but that's just the way it goes I guess.

[Tao]

Hi Jennie,

I've found that when I didn't wake my DD by 6:10 a.m., she too, would refuse her a.m. nap because she wasn't tired enough. I usually cut her A time shorter than usual and tried putting her down for another nap and this usually worked (which meant she would have a 1 nap day). I agree with Wendy that some days it is a 1 nap day and other is a 2 nap day...this is what I'm noticing. Although, we have been having more 1 nap days than 2!!

Thanks for your advice Ladies regarding shortening the first nap even more. I will try cutting 10 minutes off today. I just feel bad having to wake her when she is sleeping so soundly lol...but it's the only way that will make her day extend correctly!!

[Tweakster]

OOps hehe William, now son you are supposed to be playing ball here!

Finn finally caved.

Yes I think longer nights certainly make a huge difference, they sure do for Finn.

I was thinking more like:
Awake 6
Nap 30 mins @ 9:30 - 10
Nap 1.5+ hrs @ 12:45 - 2:15/2:30
Bed asleep by 6:45

Basically, that middle A shortens up after a 30 min nap.   And it depends on how he can do with a long A to bedtime.

[jenniewren]

A frustrating day - he was sound asleep when I went in at 45 mins this am & took a bit to wake him. I wish I hadn't now!

I think I'll try the 30 min am and shorter middle A time & see how that goes. I've probably kept him up too long before now after 30 mins. 

I've got him up and he's playing and chatting happily... we're off in the car in a bit so he might drop off then.

He seems to cope fine with long A times up to bed. In fact he seems to cope well with long A times generally without getting grumpy unless it's 6-7hrs plus! (at the childminders...)

the only times I've EW which he won't resettle from are when he's had virtually no sleep for 2-3 days. He's still BF & I do still feed him at night so is easy to settle mostly..but that's another story.

So if he wakes after 6.30am is it worth trying just one nap in the middle of the day with an early bedtime?

[Tweakster]

Well to be honest I would still offer a nap - there's no harm in offering. 

With Finn, I can only offer, he can sleep or not sleep.  At least it's a forced rest in the morning IYKWIM?  If he doesn't sleep he just stays in his crib babbling in the dark.  So I offer him a nap at 9, same wind down, same everything, and then I get him out by 9:30 (I usually stir him at 9:20 and give him time to wake up).  So I always offer it, but am prepared for him to just take the one nap midday if he 'sleeps in' (lol whoever thought 5:45 would be sleeping in). 

I have pretty much given up trying to fight this one.  It's one I am not going to win so just going with it.

So I think you should plan to offer him something in the AM, even if it's just 20 - 30 mins.  But recognize that if he has a longer night and later waking, you may just get the one nap and an earlier bedtime.  Especially when W. has days at the childminders where sleep is wonky, it's nice to give him that chance to catch up at home...if he doesn't use it then he may be rested enough...but it still gives everyone a rest period in the morning.