How to get independant sleep when they just stand in their cot???

[Grants]

Oh dear! Its now 10pm and ds had his first nw. And i thought i had a good feeling about tonight (sign) the funny thing is that he only settled after i put teething gel on his gums?! I wonder if its because of its taste in his mouth or it is because it soothed him straight away!? I thought he stopped teething for awhile?! Now im starting to wonder if he is hungry as he only settled after i put something into his mouth?! He eats loads during the day and is having around 14oz of formula on top of it. Very strange! Everything is so complicated:-C

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Oh my, ladies. Lots and lots going on here!

Let me start with Inoella. I agree with Grants. Your lo is not too much younger than mine, and at this point, they should be able to go through the night w/o a feed, especially since they have solids now to keep their tummies nice and full. 2oz is more of a snack, and isn't a full feed, so I think that nursing or feeding has become a prop for you. I also bf DS, and he bf 4 times, with BT being the last bf. So, my feeding/meal routine goes something like this...
5:00 morning bf
7:30 breakfast (solids)
10:00 bf (his "snack")
12:00 lunch (solids)
4:00 bf (snack)
6:00 dinner (solids)
7:30 bf for bt
Even with that, at this point, I feel as if DS is actually ready to drop his BT feed and even his midmorning 10:00 AM feed, as well. So, by 12 months, I am aiming for only 2 bfs, and I'll be compensating by offering bm or formula in sippy during meal time instead of offering separate bf. Does that make sense? What is your solids and bf routine like? Just wondering if you can wean your lo from night feeds and add the ounces back in during the day to help with your NWs? Are you planning on weaning soon, or are you planning on waiting? What's your plan there? Can you even show us your average routine in EASY format, including meals and bfs?

BTW, the 10 month "fit" is very normal. They just want whatever it is that they see and are naturally curious about their environment, so of course, she wants your groceries and not what you've brought with you. But, what about offering something from your grocery cart that she CAN touch? I usually let DS play with the salad packed in a bag or anything that makes crackling sounds or anything that she can't possibly break or harm by playing with it.

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Okay, I'm back. Had to take a break, as DS woke early from nap and so had to resettle. Wanted to respond to Grants...

You really are doing an amazing job. I think you are doing BW just the way you are supposed to! So, I think we've ruled out OT/OS as being the reason for your NWs, right? So for NWs, maybe you should do a NW log. Have a little notebook by your bedstand, and actually look at the clock (I know you don't want to) and write down when the NWs are and for how long. What might not be apparent now might show up as a pattern once you do it for about 2 weeks. Or you might discover that it is totally random, in which case you can rule out for sure, habitual NWs.

Have you ruled out medical reasons for NWs? Reflux? Food allergies? Just to throw it out there, because I did find out that my lo was allergic to peanuts, eggs, dairy, and cats, and his solids/foods were contributing to NWs. So, he went from having up to 10 or more NWs to having 5 NWs? Ha ha. Not much of a difference, but it did get better.

With nursery, right now, DD only goes to nursery 1x/wk. BUT, last year from the time she was 10 weeks old, she went to nursery 3x per week, and 2 days at home with me. And here's the thing that's hard. You have to let go. I remember periods when I was so frustrated because they always put the kids down for naps at the same time everyday, and I felt like telling them during different stages of her development, "but she's not tired by 1:00! or she's OT and can't wait until 1:00 for nap" or something of that sort. And I realized that nursery, with the number of kids they have, can only follow schedules, for the most part. And you know what? DD did their schedule because she had no other choice, with bad consequences at home from NWs to BTs being all weird. DD was sometimes OT when she got home, other times not. But after about 3 months, things started to iron out, and believe it or not, consistency was the key. It started to get better once I adapted my own routine to be the same as nursery. I didn't want to do that, but having different routines at nursery and at home was confusing for DD, and she was a "textbook" child. So it was best for her to have one type of routine, rather than two different ones. Plus, as she got older, she was more flexible and was able to handle longer A times, and could handle nursery schedule better overall, does that make sense?

I think for you it might be a bit different in that your DS will have three very separate routines. How consistent are you and your DH? Do you talk the same language when you two have DS on different days? How adaptable is your nursery? Or are they on a strict schedule? Or do you think your DS's A time is now long enough and can handle whatever routine is at nursery? Those are all the things that make a difference in how well your lo adjusts.

[inoella]

Thanks so much ladies - I guess the only "face" I can use is  ... I "know" she's old enough to not need a night feed, but since she wasn't eating well (only a few minutes one side and hardly any solids) and hasn't gained any weight in 3 months I just kept getting caught up in the "what ifs" -- and a few weeks ago I pumped in the mid a.m. instead of nursing and only got 3 oz so I freaked out!!!!! and wondered if she wasn't getting enough during her feeds. But now I've built things up again and she's nursing on both sides 4x/day so I'm pretty confident she's getting enough. Still doesn't eat much solids. But I guess I just need to brace myself for PD for the next week or two. I was trying to ease out of it by offering the bottle and getting DH involved but he's working nights this weekend and doesn't ever wake up unless I shake him to death so I guess if it's going to happen it will have to be me... sigh...
So, on a good day we do this:
A 6ish
E BF 6:30/7
E solids 8:30
S maybe 9:30-10
E BF 10:30/11
E solids 12/12:30
S ?
E BF 2:30/3
E Solids 4:30/5
E BF 6-7 (these last two times depend on if she took an afternoon nap)
DH thinks she just needs to move to one nap and I think I'm going to try it. She's done everything else early - dropped the CN before 6 mo. cold turkey, crawling at 6 mo. standing at 7 etc.... I just thot with being so active she would need the extra sleep but she just won't nap. And honestly, she has enough good days that  I know when she's tired she goes right down, ykwim? I'm just scared of trying to wean NW nursing if OT is the culprit with dropping a nap. Ughhhhh... so hard to know.  Would you wean the night feeds cold turkey? If I give her a bottle with 2 oz and then do PD is that worse than not giving her anything? More confusing I mean? It's just like last night when I put her down after the bottle it wasn't a fussy cry it was a full blown I'm mad as he** wake up the neighborhood cry... ?
But I don't want to be a scared mom, ykwim? I wish I were confident and happy and at peace. I think she would be happier. I'm so scared of messing up that I think it's ending up being worse for her than if I messed up royally and then just learned from it! ha ha!
Thanks for listening to my confessional...

Grants/Mika - I like the idea of keeping a NW journal. I think I'll try too whatever I decide about PD.... Grants what do you do at the NW? Just go in and help settle and leave? Or do you use PD?
I've wondered that about the teething gel - if it really helps that instantaneously or if it's just the "newness" of something to swallow... hard to tell, huh? I don't gel hurt anything, so you might as well keep doing it!!!

DM - how are you?

[Grants]

Ionella, I think that you should go cold turkey with the night feed. 2oz is not much at all. I personally wouldn’t give her milk and then do PD. I would just not give her milk at all and just try and help her to settle. The good side is that now you know what the problem is and you can fix it ! Look at me, I have been struggling for months and still don’t know the cause  ( sign) 
When my LO has his NWs I go to his bedroom and let him know that I’m there and as soon as he hears my voice he stops moaning and then I will put him into a comfortable sleeping position and use gentles strokes on his back and then leave him to do the rest. But sometimes I have to stroke his back for longer and sometimes I have to keep my hands on his back until he is asleep. It all depends on the kind of NWs. I saw on your EASY that you give solids 1/1.5  hour after you BF. Why don’t you try giving solids after 2 hours instead? She might eat more if you do that as she might be hungrier then. Just a thought….
And Inoella please try to relax a bit more. We get it wrong all the time! Nobody is perfect! The most important thing is that you are trying to work out what is best for your DD. So I’m sure you are doing a great job! You are a concerned mum and I’m sure you are trying your best! 

Thank you for the compliment about my BW routine Mika!! It is nice to know that I’m not doing so badly after all. I was starting to wonder if BW was the right method to deal with these NWs. But I don’t know if I want to go for anything new at the moment?!?! Plus I’m not doing any of the obvious things that can cause NWs for example feeding or rocking to sleep etc…so I’m pretty sure any other method would look into those “oops” first and after that there is not much more to do…. I don’t know if I ruled out OT/OS from my NWs. But you guys mentioned before that too many NWs on the same night are not OT/OS?!?! Yesterday he woke up 7 times, something like this: 10pm, (settled with teething gel), 1am (settled with teething gel), 1:45(settled with quick reassurance), woke up twice after that but I didn’t look at the clock and finally he woke up at 3:20am I didn’t go in as he sounded happy and then at 4:10 he started to fuss a bit. I went into his room and tried to reassure him he started talking happily to himself again and then I left. Then he complained again and I took him to our bed and he wanted to talk and play!?!?! ( he can’t be UT surely as he is having 5 hours A time and only 1 nap of 1.5 ?!?!) Then I took him back to his cot straight away and left him there. He complained the moment I put him down, I ignored it and left and he stay happily for quite awhile and then he started to cry and I asked DH to go. It took DH about 20 minutes to get him to sleep again.   And he slept another 30 mins. Woke up at 5:45am took me 10 mins to get him back to sleep and he is sleeping right now. He will probably wake up in 30 mins again, I bet!   It is all so frustrating! I wonder if this is his body trying to adapt from having only 1 nap all these days?! It seems to be getting worse?!?! I also noticed that he had a leap on his speech development lately. He is now talking a lot of “gibberish” and is paying a lot of attention on what I’m saying when I’m explaining a scenario to him! He can have a full conversation in gibberish iykwim? Do you think this can affect his NWs?!
I will try and keep a diary on his NWs to try and shed some light on this! I’m starting to get worried that it will never pass…..

It is actually interesting that you mentioned the medical reasons as I was thinking about this last night between the NWs. I think DS is such a healthy baby. He never had reflux even when newborn. He eats everything, responded very well to sleep training, sttn since he is 5.5 months. If he had any food allergies I think I would know about it as food allergies provoke a reaction. And even if he had some food intolerance I think I would know it too as he wouldn’t feel well after eating “certain” kinds of foods?! Plus we don’t have any case of food allergies in both sides of the family….. Am I right thinking that way?!? How did you find out about your LO’s food allergies?  Are they severe or are they just food intolerance?!

Thank you for enlightening me on the nursery subject. I think my nursery is a bit more flexible about sleeping times. I’m not 100% sure .I have an appointment to talk about my LO’s routine on the 8th so I guess I will find out every detail then. But just the fact that they made a appointment to talk about his routine I think it is  a good sign as they might try and work around that?!?! I hope so….
DH is very helpful with DS but he relies on me to tell him when DS needs to nap and needs food etc… So I think I will need to explain the whole BW principle again with the whole A times etc as he will have DS all by himself so he will need to know how to read his cues. I’m sure he will pick it up easily as he is very involved with DS’s routine and is very good to put him down for naps when we are at his parents as I struggle to put DS down when we are out at the in laws house.

It is now 6:45am and DS is still sleeping. Let’s see what time he will wake. He might break his own record today! Yesterday he woke up at 6:10am, the night before 5:30 (after a EW of 4:30) , the night before that 4:20am( and wouldn’t go back to sleep) and the night before that 6:45am. So there is no consistency on his wake times either…. (sign)   

 

[Grants]

Actually I should be catching up with my sleep but isntead I'm typing here.....How silly am I?!? I just couldn't bother trying to sleep anymore after so many NWs.....

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Inoella, grants is right. You have to give yourself some love and props. You are doing the best you can and you are a GREAT mom because you are trying to fix it! <3

So, here's what I can see from your feeding routine, and I'm only basing this on the fact that I nursed both of my los and DD nursed for 1 year, and DS looks like he'll fully wean by 15 months (that's the goal, anyway). I also saw a lactation nurse quite often my 1st year because I was so freaked out and confused about the whole thing, and DD was not a good nurser. It was a struggle for me to last that long, and I'm amazed that she did nurse for 1 year.

Anyway, from what I see, it looks like your lo has her feeding upside down. What I mean is that she's drinking more than eating. You pumping only 3 oz at middle of the night (even though you were freaked out) is actually quite a lot of milk. You get less amount of milk pumping than what your lo actually drinks. From my lactation nurse in the past, add a couple ounces to what you express to get an average of what your lo might actually be getting when she nurses. So that's a lot. Just to note, at 10 months, your milk supply is supposed to be dropping. Biologically, that's what's natural as your lo begin to eat solids. So try not to worry when milk supply drops. That's what is supposed to make your lo more hungry to eat more solids. So, if you are constantly trying to boost supply by nursing more or nursing in the middle of the night, your lo will not be hungry for the solids, and at this stage solids are more important than BM as they need other nutrients for proper development than what your body can supply. But, if you want to nurse longer than one year, you are having to force your body to do what it doesn't naturally do. You will continue to lactate as long as you nurse but not the same quantity, so you can also use natural herbs that help increase supply. I hope I'm not coming across as if I'm not supportive of moms who nurse longer than 1 year. Actually, I support any kind of nursing no matter how long. I just wanted to shed some light on what might be going on with your body, with your lo, etc. HTH. And... forgot to mention, when you drop night feedings, your supply WILL drop dramatically, so don't worry, okay.

I do feed DS 2 hours after nursing, because like yours, he did not eat much until I separated the feeds farther apart. But, if you are worried, you can also add milk ounces into your meals by offering bm in sippy during meals, too. But, if you give bm during meals, don't offer it until after she's starting to get full on solids. Honestly, though, I would encourage you to just try to increase solids and not worry about the bm quantity so much. It really regulates itself. Like I said in pp, at this age, they only need minimum of 12 oz of milk/diary total. So, if your lo is drinking that much, then she's fine. If she eats yogurt/cheese, she needs even less milk.

Dropping feeds and pd... Using pd depends on how your lo will respond. MY DS hates pd and it rouses him at night instead of settling him. PD works better for him during the day. So for me, I use it as a last resort at night. For you, does your lo settle with other more gentle/soothing ways (sh/pt or hand on back, for example?) I would always go with the less stimulating way first, sit in rocker quietly, hand on back, etc., before using pd. And even then, I only do pd when lo is totally out of sorts, arching back, etc., and you are physically fighting her. Never fight a struggling child and do pd instead.

Okay, Grants, I'm not ignoring you. Running out of time, here, as the los are waking up, so I'll be back to comment on your post later. Hugs everyone.

DM hope you are doing okay!

[inoella]

Hi ladies - thanks Mika for that really helpful post. I guess I was thinking until 1 year BM is their main nutrient but she is getting there fast! I'm still torn because with nap stuff she's going to bed OT more often - like last night - and it just doesn't seem "fair" to go cold turkey with weaning at night when she's OT.  But I do see your point about getting too much liquid - I nursed her at 11:30 before her nap and even at 2 p.m. she's not that hungry... sigh... Maybe after night weaning I'll need to head straight for down from 4 to 3 bfs  day!

At night we hold her to go back to sleep. But last night after nursing, pooping, changing, cuddling, she started arching her back etc. so I had to just put her down and walk away. She slept 5:30 - 9:30 - just enough to not be exhausted enough to go back to sleep without a fight! So she was acting like nap time. So here's what I do - if she's crying, I stay. The second she stops and starts smiling/cooing I say "goodnight - I'll be right outside if you need me" - or whatever  .  Then she starts screaming and I come back in (at night - during the day I stay away longer cuz it's not really a need me cry just a fuss). Last night it only took 3 times and the last time I went in she stopped crying right away and just settled in - I stayed with my hand on her back until she was asleep.

Grants - I found this "poll" thread about when LOs dropped to 1 nap and found it interesting how many moms who dropped to 1 early (9-11 mo.) said it was because of NW and EW and that those stopped after moving to 1 nap. Here's the link:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=130791.15
I think you're already trying one nap tho? Just thot it was interesting. I think I'll try one nap this week and see how it goes. I know it's not best to go cold turkey - but she's done everything else early so what do I expect? I've been wondering about dropping the nap and the BFs at night together but maybe we just need something like that to jump start a new routine.... here's hoping!

Thanks for the encouragement and advice from both of you to "lighten up".  I needed that. I often find that DD knows what she's doing even when I think I need to follow her cues this week and just see if that's what she's asking for.

Oh, about the fits. The example I gave of the grocery store - I did giver her several things - an orange, a small can, and finally - what she liked best - a sliver of cheese (nice and cold for the gums!). But she wanted to touch everything! And I did stay calm. I said "we can't touch everything in the store" and "that's not a nice way to ask mommy". I figure I need to start explaining what is a nice way to ask for things now even tho she can't talk yet. Start as you mean to go on, right?  Now that I think back, it might have been worse cuz of being tired and a bit hungry - I think I need to really work on getting the solids right cuz I bet she'll have low blood sugar like I do. And she is working on 3 teeth at once!!! But at any rate, I guess it's just the start of "life isn't always fair" and we'll have a lot of that to explain for years to come!!!

I think we're on different time zones - so I'll wish you a happy Monday!

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Hi again, I'm back, as promised to comment on Grant's post. Kids are both napping so have a little bit of time. 

So, Grants, wanted to share with you a link that's been recommended to me several times, but I haven't gotten the chance to get her book. Just thought if you wanted to tinker with other methods besides BW that also suits our philosophies of not letting our los CIO, you might want to try the "Australian Babywhisperer".  http://www.australianbabywhisperer.com.au/ 

Just from a personal perspective, most of everything I've read out there (and I've read a lot), are so generic and didn't offer much with regards to real useful strategies that we don't already use with BW. It seems they were saying a lot of the same things that BW did, and the other extreme was CC or CIO, which is not for me. But I heard that the Aussie BW has some concrete steps that might be worth looking into...

But, to your questions about allergies... the first red flag for us was the fact that he had so many NWs to the point that I felt it was a bit "abnormal", especially for a baby that was already sleep trained. But, you are right in that I did see reactions. Hives, mostly, on skin. At first, I thought his skin was just sensitive. Sometimes it was just red, othertimes, little bumps, and other times, there were very obvious hives. But, I couldn't isolate the cause no matter how much I controlled HIS diet. Then realized the other variable (which is my diet) was not controlled. So talked with my ped, and he ran a blood panel which then confirmed that he was allergic to those foods and was getting exposed through BM. Plus, he's allergic to cats, and we have a cat at home, too, who liked to sleep right next to his crib!  From the sound of things, if you are not seeing any kind of reaction, then it's probably safe to rule out food-related allergies.

But, I really believe from the bottom of my heart that this WILL pass. I do think 2-1 transition is tough for them at this age. Plus the teething, plus the developmental milestones. If your lo is settling with teething gel, he is probably bothered by that. And other times bothered by something else, like the 2-1. It's hard to pin it down when there are so many things that can cause the NWs at this age. That's why I think 18 months is that magic number. They should be down to 1 nap by then, and should have a full set of teeth by then, and they can... ta da... verbalize!!

Anyway have either of you, (inoella, too) thought about w2s as a strategy? Once you start looking at your sleep diary, there might be some time frames where it's definitely habitual. Our los might have some times that are habitual wakings and other times that are wakings due to teeth, etc. So, when you add it all up, maybe it ends up being 5 NWs? In fact, Inoella, you might think of w2s as a way to wean from night feeding. Catch them before they wake up, so to speak...

Good luck, inoella in the 2-1 transition. It looks like you have several issues going on. But, here's something to consider. Even if you transitioned to 1 nap, it won't necessarily fix the NWs if your lo is waking at night to nurse, kwim? So, while you are working on 2-1 transition, you might gradually drop the night feeds as you get a handle on the solids, and try to get her more filled up that way. At 9 months, they need more solids than milk, particularly they need iron. So, you are definitely on that course of trying to flip the eating from more solids and less milk. If your milk supply drops naturally because she is eating more, let that be your biological "window" to allow the night feeds to drop, too. Then use pd, sh/pt, or w2s to help your lo ride out the habitual nursing.

I hope that things at nursery goes well, Grants. It's great that they are willing to sit down with you and talk about your routine. I'm sure your lo will do fine. He seems like such a great little boy.

My little guy had 4 NWs last night. And for once, I can DEFINITELY say this is due to teeth. Sore bottom, drooling, fingers in mouth all the time, biting. I might have to give him some pain meds 30 minutes before bed and see what happens.

[Grants]

Hi girls, im just wondering how u are all doing. Inoella, thank u for the link about 2 to 1.it seems to help with the nws. Unfortunately it didnt work for us as my lo is having 1 nap for the last 7 days but is still waking up during the night. But i think this is due to his body adapting to the change i have a feeling he will get used to it soon. :-) how did the cold turkey 1 nap go? How r u getting on with the feeding during the night? Mika, thank u for the australian baby whisperer link. I havent had a chance to have a look at it yet but i will as soon as i can. how is ur lo doing? Is he still having a hard time teething? Dm how r u? I hope all is well. I will come back later when i have more time to write a longer post. catch u later ladies xxx

[DM588]

Hey Ladies...wow - too much to catch up on!!! . I tried posting when the sight went down end of last week  and kept trying all that day - then i ran into an incredibly busy weekend!!! Not sure i can catch up on all of the posts i have missed so i hope you and all LO's are OK!!??

Our nigfts are still great (sttn) and wake up still around 6.30-7am ish. Although he's been waking for a bit of a moan about 5am ish but goes back to sleep on his own - possibly teething annoying him but not enough for him to stay awake i guess???

BT is also fine at going down on his own but naps are just a complete no-brainer!!! It seems i can't do any sleep training like i have before as when i put him down for naps he starts crying - if i try PD he gets worse - if i try wi/wo he gets worse - if i try to leave him and sit/stand next to him he still gets worse!!!! So i have no potion but to pick him out and settle him to seep in my arms. I think i am possibly starting to try putting him down gradually a little more awake like in the very early days of sleep training. But some days if he is not completely asleep and he opens his eyes on the way down to his mattress he'll start the whole process again - sigh

Not really sure where i go with that but i'm also not too worried about it as i know these phases seem to be coming and going so quick right now that i know it'll pass soon!! Also his naps have been a little sporadic - some days he wakes early from AM nap so then has long PM nap and sometimes he is fine with sticking to long AM and then CN for PM - it doesn't seem to make any difference to BT or nights - in fact somedays he has over 3hrs sleep and other days he may only have 1 hr!!! I really think it's his teeth though and so try to give him pain meds before his AM nap now and also at BT. Which i think really helps. We also had a great day at nursery today - he was left on his own for 1.5hrs and did great - was crying on and off apparently and completely went into one when he saw me again but  the fact i know he can be settled by them is great!!! Feeling soo much more positive about everything - lets just see how long it lasts!!! lol

So i hope you are all well and hopefully i can keep up with everything - athough i have a really busy few days coming up as start back at workon Friday - so will do my best to keep in touch as much as possible!!

Thank you sooo much for your help so far - you ladies have certainly helped us get back on track and stay calm when things have been really bad. It seems we have all learnt to go with flow and be more relaxed with our LO's since chatting on our little thread!! (ok big thread) speak soon xxx

[inoella]

Hi everyone!
DM - so glad nursery went well and DS is still STTN - WOW! Sorry the naps are tough - but you're lucky the AP for naps isn't interfering with the night sleep!
Mika - how's the teething going?
Grants - anything new?
We're attempting to tackle everything at once here - ha ha! I'm alternating between going completely crazy and feeling completely calm.  Enlisting Dh's help with the NW  - def waking to nurse but last night managed to get away with just 1 oz. and she ate much better today so that was good. But still refusing the p.m. nap - DM she sounds exactly like your LO but she won't fall asleep with me holding either - just starts cooing and looking around. I even cleaned out her room - all the pictures, toys, etc. Still point at the bare dresser and curtains - silly girl. I'm at a loss. So, I'm taking the week to just stay put and try to help her settle down - I think she's confused about all the APing I've been doing.  Getting a little help on the G. Sleep boards so that's nice.
Just a quick question - when DD cries - esp. at night - she often goes rigid and seems to be straining. For some reason I always wonder if she has tummy trouble? So I'm wondering if your LOs do that too and it's normal - how would I know?  Or if I should be looking into the "why"...

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Hey, why does it seem so long since I've been on?

Anyway, DM, glad to see you're back and that DS is doing so great at night! I'm so jealous.  Sorry that your naps are still tough. I think that gradual withdrawal is the way to go for naps, where you can put him down when he's nearly asleep, then go for better, more awake stretches when you put him down over the next few weeks. Doesn't it seem like we are retraining all over again? My DS is the same for naps sometimes, too, but it doesn't take him long to settle in my arms if I need to pu. Sometimes I feel like he falls asleep already on the way up when I pu.  Then I just plop him back down again.

Grants, and you?

Inoella, well, I can say one thing about tackling it all at once. Since your lo is already confused and your routine is "off" anyway, she won't know any different, right? To her, it's just all change! Hopefully, you can get your head wrapped around it all.

About your question, when she strains when you pick her up, it's partly her age, and hey physically fight you when they are tired. My DS does that, too. Sometimes he doesn't, and other times he does. My DH's answer to that is to just hold him tighter (of course, he's a strong, tall, big man, and he can do that.) But, for me, and probably for you, too, that's when you start doing pd. BW says to never fight a struggling child, and start pd immediately, no matter how long it takes. Usually, when DS gets like that, I do a few rounds of pd with him, which then gets him nice and tired (don't get me wrong, he's really upset during that whole time), but when I finally decide to pu after lots of pd, he actually will concede and let me settle him in my arms.

Anyway, the nights here have been absolutely miserable. DS has been waking up every 30 minutes all night long. He won't even give me an hour stretch. He keeps putting finger in mouth, has a terrible nappy rash. But, last night he went to bed with four teeth. This morning, he woke up with seven teeth. So three broke through the gums in the last 24 hours! So he is working on a bunch all at the same time. And since teeth usually cut in pairs, I would imagine his eighth one is coming. He's still very fussy and his gum still very swollen. Hopefully this will end soon and I can get some zzzzs. So tired. I've been giving him pain meds, but they don't seem to be helping much. Gotta ride it out, like anything else. So at the moment, I can't even try to analyze his routine, as it's all over the place because of the teething. When this is all over, I'm sure I'll be back to trying to figure out his NWs again.

Okay, I suppose I should get to bed, as DS is in bed now, and he'll give me 15 more minutes before he will probably wake up again.

[Grants]

Hi girls,

Wow!! DM, your LO is doing great even though he had a cold and is teething! Such a good boy!   I’m also jealous as I can’t take these NWs any longer
As you said once: we can’t have it all or they sttn or they go well for naps……(sign)
I’m glad to hear that nursery experience went well!! I will be next…

 Inoella, it is so hard to fix everything at once. I know how it feels as I did exactly the same thing with my DS when he was around 4.5 months. But I’m glad I did it though. It is better to get done with these things. Good news that she is taking less milk at night and eating better! : ) You said on pp that you were going to go cold turkey with 1 nap. Did you manage to do it? How did it go?
I have no idea about the “straining”?!?! Could she be in pain? Why don’t you check with the doctor about her tummy? Just to make sure that everything is alright .You said that you always wondered if she had some trouble with her tummy!?

Sorry to hear about your NWs Mika every 30 minutes is really tough! I don’t know how you are managing to survive! At least your LO is teething quite quickly and he will get done with the teething sooner rather than later!! 3 teeth in one night!?!? Poor boy, it must hurt like hell! My LO is the opposite. He suffers for weeks and then only has 1 tooth after all the suffering. He will be 1 year old on the 12th and has only 3 teeth. 2 at the bottom, which came in pair and he had no pain with those and 1 on the top which came through 2 weeks ago. You said that teeth always come in pairs?! Is there any medical evidence for this or is it just a common believe? If this is true I can be expecting another tooth sometime soon?! But I can’t see anything on his mouth?!?! So weird to have only 1 tooth on the top front of your mouth!?!?! DH keeps on joking that he looks like a hillbilly! hahaha

My DS is having 1 nap for the last 7 days. In 2 of the days he needed a cat nap of 10 mins to help him get through the day. 1 day he slept only 1 hour after 5 hours A time, so I knew he would need a late cat nap and the other day he slept 1.5 hour but woke up too early to last until BT. He still had 5.5 A time (5am to 10:30am) but because he woke up at 5am that day he had his nap at 10:30am instead of 11am so he woke up at 12:00 which was too early. The other 5 days he had only one nap and earlier BT. I’m also trying to delay his morning bottle to 7am as I’m trying to extend his morning wake time as well. 5:30am is too early and plus he is having only 1 nap these days. Some days he manages to sleep until 6:45am (his record) but some days I can’t manage to extend it. It is a bit easier to extend his morning wake time now as it is getting darker in the morning and he doesn’t get distracted with the light, even though we have blackout blinds in his room he still gets excited when he knows it is morning so now I don’t have this problem.  I’m keeping a diary as you suggested Mika, but there is no pattern yet. I don’t think w2s is a good technique to deal with his NWs. I have thought about it before but I thought it was too erratic to use w2s and now that I’m doing the diary I can actually see in paper that it is too erratic as I thought. I think w2s works best for when a baby wake up only once or maybe twice in the night at the same time every night. My LO’s NWs are all over the place. After 2 days doing the diary I thought the NWs were decreasing and I thought this was because his body was finally adapting with 1 nap. But then it started to increase again!??!? I can’t understand it as he sttn for 5 months of his life every single night and now he is waking up again?!?! It has been over a month now! I just don’t get it?!?! I was thinking about going to the doctor to see if DS has an ear infection. Just a shot in the dark as I’m getting desperate.…. If he had an ear infection would he be alright during the day? Does ear infection hurt only during the night? What do you think girls? I just don’t want to go to the doctor and then to give DS antibiotics if it is not a severe infection. I hate giving medicine to my DS if it is not serious. I find that loads of doctors love prescribing kids antibiotics all the time and I really don’t like that idea. 
 

[Grants]

Another thing I wanted to ask is: My LO is only having 1 nap of  1.5 hours. Out of the 7 days he only managed to nap for 2 hours once. Do you think when he has gone through the 2 to 1 transition he will eventually nap 2 hours or more? Is this due to the transition? I do try to extend his naps everytime but he won't let me as he seems rested after 1.5 hours sleep.